Either way you want to do it. Personally, I don't mind the dark setting, but as long as we get to know more of Dim' s story I'm satisfied. It seems like he has a bigger role in the weedverse than he realizes.
Darkness makes an individual rather powerful. But they are forever alone, as darkness is incapable of truly sharing power.
Light can both make an individual quite powerful but limited in means to harm, admitably. However because of its collective nature, how it seeks more light, its true power is incomparable to the darkness.
And yet neither can exist without the other. The darkness only has meaning because of the light. Without light it has no identity. But the light needs the darkness for its shine to be visible. Yin and yang, yang and yin.
Storytelling honestly has to do with this as well. You need a conflict, the darkness, to ve overcome, with the light. People need weaknesses and strengths, selfishness and charity, to develop their personalities in a tale.
Yeah i think you threw too much darkness into the opening scenes in this one. Shoulda been that we uncovered exactly the sheer levels of grimdark going on as the story unfolded. Like, he looks back on the things that went on in his life during certain moments and we learned how messed up his life was or something.
Also i think it gave people the wrong idea. You want to make a story of a dark an disturbed individual hwo has some nobility left in him. And it might have given the impression of a story that is nothing but ten tonsa grimdark nonsense.
PErsonally, iit wasn't that bad. Then again i know of far, far worse stories out there. Doesn't even have a real plot going on.
That was wonderful. Dim is an extremely interesting character with what you've done here. Cold and calculating, definitely a selfish asshole, but not evil. I hope that even if you do pull this story short you'll revisit the character again someday.
Provided the story is still Eigengrau at its core, that could work but I wouldn't necessarily advocate for it. Granted that is out of my own selfish wishes to see where this story goes, regardless as to whether or not other people enjoy it. Either way a different opening would certainly be more palatable. The question however, is how much of Dim Dark's character development would be lost to it?
I like this setup you have a dark unicorn who has a interesting world view and hopeful will be come central to the current overall plot later on. I also want more unicorn combat I just love reading about fantasy combat tactics. I do wonder what the wardens think of our main character yes he is dark but if fells like hes a true grey character trying to do right to the world.
Dim is a very interesting character. I'd count him as Good-ish. He's clearly got a sense of Right and Wrong. But he's, well. Dark. He knows what Right is, but he's still got no qualms about doing Wrong. Seeing more of him would be great.
Don't know what to think. Is it weird to say that it it feels like it's getting better with each progression? His resentment of his upbringing as it was finally and fully exposed to him seems to be setting him on the slow path to redemption. Did the Constable hear what Dim said at the end about Grogar and will the Wardens note this if reading his thoughts?
I think that the problem is that everyone expects a Batman, but what they got was a Punisher. Dim Dark is not a hero with a tragic backstory, nor even a well-intentioned anti villain. Dim is, at least for now, a horrifyingly irredeemable blight on Equestria. The only difference between him and a follower of Grogar is that he refuses to kneel. For now, he is "on Equestria's side," although I have no doubt that the government of Equestria would destroy him in a heartbeat, as he seems to understand. He is evil, and he knows it.
I'm enjoying this, but I like the story, not the character. I think that's one of the biggest issues here. People expect a hero, but all they get is a slightly lesser evil that happens to hate the Big Bad. As I said, I enjoy this immensely, but I understand how people might not agree. I would love to see the story continued, but if you decide otherwise, I'll live.
In musing over Dim's upbringing and how it relates to his current state of being, I'm inclined to think of Black Snake Moan, and the demons that haunted Rae and Lazarus even as they healed in one another's company. I could see Dim's mannerisms being written in a similar way.
What if Eigengrau was shortened a bit from it's original form, and picked up in another story, one that didn't have such a dark, terrible opening? Would that be better?
Honestly, I could see that working. I think the story is quite viable, just that the backstory is very hard to stomach. Still, without reading it people will have a hard time fully understanding the character. It's your call.
Edit: Ask not an elf for advice, for it will tell you both yes and no.
More and more I think 'chaotic something", especially with the "monologuing while your brain is exposed" bit. Makes me think of one of the baddies in Kill Bill.
If this story did not have the first chapter, then would it still be Mature?
In thinking about this story, I'm thinking about something I noticed with The Chase: You (the reader) would be coasting along, and then suddenly BOOM you get jarred while you're going 60 mph. With The Chase, you're already moving along, so the inertia carries you over the disruption and you are able to continue going. With this story, the disruption may have been such that it prevented people from even getting going.
And I mean both the Mature tag, and the extreme (as many people would view it) subject matter of the first chapter.
One thing I can think of is moving the first chapter into its own one-shot story. If this story must remain Mature after the first chapter is moved, then the one-short story can link back to this one (and vice-versa).
This story interests me. I definitely don't agree with Dim's views, nor his methods (does he really need to lecture someone before killing them?); but his current direction is one I'm OK with, and I'm very interested in seeing what happens. I mean, I expect this to filer up to Princess Luna at some point.
Yes. The references to penis binding, I think that would raise a few eyebrows. The drug use. And later, when a certain character comes back into the story.
Oh, all of the time Dim spends expressing the fact that he is not a motherfucker.
So my earlier comment stands: If the squick factor is too high for people, I expect it's because of the first chapter, and splitting it off into a one-shock (with this as sequel) may avoid future readers being put off.
I can understand if you think it's too late. However, if Dim's actions start causing effects in other stories, then people can find this story and hopefully not be immediately repulsed. I assume it's OK to reference this story by name in a non-Mature story, so long as there's no link
I don't know while DARK there are redeeming points to this story. DIM could easily go evil in someways, ways that aren't exactly acceptable to the masses. He knows more about the darker side of magic since he has training in it
I very much agree with karl 8121009if you did something like you did with The Mask Makes and the Pony and The Masks We Wear by moving the the first chapter to be his stand alone back story slap on a warning/TW in the description and I don't think anyone can really complain at that point having given ample warning. Though I do quite enjoy the mature and dark nature of this story
What if Eigengrau was shortened a bit from it's original form, and picked up in another story, one that didn't have such a dark, terrible opening? Would that be better?
Though i don't personally agree with that, it would probobly help readership as that first chapter won't kill off so many. As long as i can get its complete form, im happy.
And oh the Wardens. I almost forgot about them (somehow...), but yeah, they would hunt Dim. And I'm assuming, if they caught him, while he would go out with a bang(a dark one that steals noise of course), he would be effectively murderized very fast.
What if Eigengrau was shortened a bit from it's original form, and picked up in another story, one that didn't have such a dark, terrible opening? Would that be better?
If moving the first chapter to be a "here be darkness" story on its own is what it takes to keep this story alive and for readership to pick up then I support that. This story has a lot of weedverse potential and personally I am enjoying Dim as a character quite a bunch.
i say it like this... you keep dim, how or where... less important, you need another dark oc to have, the one that isn't "nice" a once that doesn't care about "right or wrong" and in this case dim also gives a whole different view about the rest of the ponies... the common folks
I'd be quite happy with that plan, particularly if it's the only way we're going to get more of this story. Dim Dark 's interesting and I don't want this arc to die, but I can see why you're prioritising like you are.
8120832 Hmm not really agreeing with this... Follower of Grogar depending on the how far gone they are range from totally crazy nihilist that would see the world burn just for the sake of it to self interested grifters that think that can scam the goat... Fundamentally all of them have no empathy whatsoever toward the rest of the world. Dim doesn't seem like that, he has profoundly skewed ideas on the values of others but still considers among his duties to defend the others. Yes he has a mean streak and a really big superiority complex, but it seems that he feels that his superiority does not entitle him to do nothing and exploit his fellow ponies, but that he has the duty to defend those who are not able to.
8120961 His actions in this chapter put him more in the Lawful Neutral category. He tries to uphold the laws and preserve order so that makes him Lawful. He's willing to do harm or inflict pain but it isn't for his own pleasure and he also considers the effects his actions have on others before making a decision which is why I would say he's Neutral.
I really want to rebel at the idea of changing the story at all, because you always have a purpose for each scene. Every detail is important (even if it's something as simple as "ponies have orange tongues"), and having future readers miss out on the full scope of Eigengrau as you have presented it- well, it would just be sad. Dim's character is practically reasonable given his background, and without all of the darkness that established him, I don't think anything he does would have the same impact. He just wouldn't be as strong as you've built him to be. Not everybody likes this sort of thing, but I feel that you should have the ability to write what you want how you want. As long as you write this, people will read it, because kudzuhaiku wrote it and kudzuhaiku is awesome.
At the same time, however, I can absolutely see why you would want to change it. Validation is critically important to artists of all mediums, and when you cannot physically see people's reactions, statistics like readership have so much more impact. I hate the idea of changing this, I really do, but I would not blame you if you did, and nor would I stop reading your work. I love it too much.
I find it funny that ponies are the only fantasy species that can use dark magic or shadow oriented and can form symbiotic harmony with it, except maybe the Drow. I think because ponies are a generaly aligning to harmony and harmonizing with whatever there special talent are. This my personal observation.
Don't change it, the opening shows what a monster he CAN be and was MADE to be, that is important to the story. Losing that you lose what makes Dim himself.
Also, well played there Dim, that was quite the Midnight Gambit.
It might be too late to chime in on changing the format but after reading the comments on this chapter I'll pose the idea of taking the first chapter and breaking it out and expanding it into a short story that acts as a prequel to Eigengrau. I would like to see more of Dim's story whatever you decide and also wanted to try a suggestion that I hadn't seen yet. You do what you need to be happy.
At this point in the story....I would say that dim is close to being Good. He already has quite a conscience, as seen when he spared the entire town. He refused to have anyone else suffer for his actions. There have been characters who are "Good" to "Okay" that have allowed such things to happen. dim's best quality is that he KNOWS he is severely fucked up, and that is trying to spend his life ensuring his own happiness, but also trying in his own way to make penance for the crimes of both himself and his family.
What if Eigengrau was shortened a bit from it's original form, and picked up in another story, one that didn't have such a dark, terrible opening? Would that be better?
Prologues, almost by definition, are wastes of space. They are heavy with exposition and rarely contain any noteworthy action. In addition, everything revealed in a prologue can be delayed and revealed in the main story as remembrances or flashbacks. The only time a prologue is actually useful is in a series, where the proolgue summarizes important events in the previous books to help the reader pick up the story with a minimum of confusion ("Oh, right, that thing happened in book two and that's why the hero/ine is doing this now.").
I know an editor (Tor Books) who refuses to read prologues in manuscripts. After reading the book he reads the prologue to see if it had anything useful. He told me it hasn't happened yet.
“I w-w-w-w-went t-t-t-o”—She cast a spell on herself and the stuttering ceased—“Princess Celestia’s School for Gifted Unicorns! How are you more powerful? You’re just some homeschooled freak!”
If you went to that school and willingly work for Grogar, you clearly didn't learn very much.
Locking beams was one of the most dangerous things a unicorn could do. It immobilised most unicorns, leaving them unable to move or flee. Concentration had to be maintained and one had to push back against the incoming beam. Failure to do so meant getting your head popped like a pimple, or maybe worse.
Okay, wasn't expecting Dragonball Z, but not complaining. Dim should probably refrain from using the Kaio-ken, though.
Unicorns tended to neglect it, thinking it was a foalhood prank spell, but when cast with the full weight of adult magic behind it, it left a unicorn stuttering, causing verbal spells to falter; and spooked, which hobbled their concentration.
Okay, this part threw me a bit. "Verbal spells" implies incantations, something that unicorns don't do to the best of my knowledge. Am I misunderstanding something?
The Wardens will come, Constable Apple, mark my words.
This confuses me, too. How wide is their jurisdiction? Are the Gritish Isles part of Equestrian territory? I would've assumed that they were their own nation, but perhaps not.
Anyway, it seems I picked the wrong chapter to stop reading last time. This was good. Dim's thought process, alien as it is, is pretty easy to follow.
Either way you want to do it. Personally, I don't mind the dark setting, but as long as we get to know more of Dim' s story I'm satisfied. It seems like he has a bigger role in the weedverse than he realizes.
That might go well, having one story that establishes Dim's darkness and another about his journey out of it.
Darkness makes an individual rather powerful. But they are forever alone, as darkness is incapable of truly sharing power.
Light can both make an individual quite powerful but limited in means to harm, admitably. However because of its collective nature, how it seeks more light, its true power is incomparable to the darkness.
And yet neither can exist without the other. The darkness only has meaning because of the light. Without light it has no identity. But the light needs the darkness for its shine to be visible. Yin and yang, yang and yin.
Storytelling honestly has to do with this as well. You need a conflict, the darkness, to ve overcome, with the light. People need weaknesses and strengths, selfishness and charity, to develop their personalities in a tale.
Yeah i think you threw too much darkness into the opening scenes in this one. Shoulda been that we uncovered exactly the sheer levels of grimdark going on as the story unfolded. Like, he looks back on the things that went on in his life during certain moments and we learned how messed up his life was or something.
Also i think it gave people the wrong idea. You want to make a story of a dark an disturbed individual hwo has some nobility left in him. And it might have given the impression of a story that is nothing but ten tonsa grimdark nonsense.
PErsonally, iit wasn't that bad. Then again i know of far, far worse stories out there. Doesn't even have a real plot going on.
That was wonderful. Dim is an extremely interesting character with what you've done here.
Cold and calculating, definitely a selfish asshole, but not evil. I hope that even if you do pull this story short you'll revisit the character again someday.
I'm actually perfectly content with the opening you gave it, it really puts into context what Dim is doing.
Provided the story is still Eigengrau at its core, that could work but I wouldn't necessarily advocate for it. Granted that is out of my own selfish wishes to see where this story goes, regardless as to whether or not other people enjoy it. Either way a different opening would certainly be more palatable. The question however, is how much of Dim Dark's character development would be lost to it?
I guess I really don't get the problem with the story.
It's a good idea, I really like the premise. The opening is kinda gruesome but really works for the idea.
Hell there is probably a philosophy to using darker elements in a story. Like making a cake and needing to get the ingredient juuuust right.
Also yeah, i think one of the sotry's weaknesses is the plethora of other grimdark tales in fimfiction.
Generally speaking the stories issues might be forces more outside of itself than within.
I like this setup you have a dark unicorn who has a interesting world view and hopeful will be come central to the current overall plot later on. I also want more unicorn combat I just love reading about fantasy combat tactics. I do wonder what the wardens think of our main character yes he is dark but if fells like hes a true grey character trying to do right to the world.
Dim is a very interesting character. I'd count him as Good-ish. He's clearly got a sense of Right and Wrong. But he's, well. Dark. He knows what Right is, but he's still got no qualms about doing Wrong.
Seeing more of him would be great.
Don't know what to think. Is it weird to say that it it feels like it's getting better with each progression? His resentment of his upbringing as it was finally and fully exposed to him seems to be setting him on the slow path to redemption. Did the Constable hear what Dim said at the end about Grogar and will the Wardens note this if reading his thoughts?
I think that the problem is that everyone expects a Batman, but what they got was a Punisher. Dim Dark is not a hero with a tragic backstory, nor even a well-intentioned anti villain. Dim is, at least for now, a horrifyingly irredeemable blight on Equestria. The only difference between him and a follower of Grogar is that he refuses to kneel. For now, he is "on Equestria's side," although I have no doubt that the government of Equestria would destroy him in a heartbeat, as he seems to understand. He is evil, and he knows it.
I'm enjoying this, but I like the story, not the character. I think that's one of the biggest issues here. People expect a hero, but all they get is a slightly lesser evil that happens to hate the Big Bad. As I said, I enjoy this immensely, but I understand how people might not agree. I would love to see the story continued, but if you decide otherwise, I'll live.
The story in its current format is fine as-is.
8120832
One simply does not kneel before disgusting primitives.
In musing over Dim's upbringing and how it relates to his current state of being, I'm inclined to think of Black Snake Moan, and the demons that haunted Rae and Lazarus even as they healed in one another's company. I could see Dim's mannerisms being written in a similar way.
hey man, leave it as is, it's solid, and honestly, Light can only shine so bright when there is no Darkness deep enough to offer proper contrast.
Honestly, I could see that working. I think the story is quite viable, just that the backstory is very hard to stomach. Still, without reading it people will have a hard time fully understanding the character. It's your call.
Edit: Ask not an elf for advice, for it will tell you both yes and no.
More and more I think 'chaotic something", especially with the "monologuing while your brain is exposed" bit. Makes me think of one of the baddies in Kill Bill.
8120789 He is lawful evil, I should think.
8120929
A sure sign that Dim is a villain. He loves monologuing.
If this story did not have the first chapter, then would it still be Mature?
In thinking about this story, I'm thinking about something I noticed with The Chase: You (the reader) would be coasting along, and then suddenly BOOM you get jarred while you're going 60 mph. With The Chase, you're already moving along, so the inertia carries you over the disruption and you are able to continue going. With this story, the disruption may have been such that it prevented people from even getting going.
And I mean both the Mature tag, and the extreme (as many people would view it) subject matter of the first chapter.
One thing I can think of is moving the first chapter into its own one-shot story. If this story must remain Mature after the first chapter is moved, then the one-short story can link back to this one (and vice-versa).
This story interests me. I definitely don't agree with Dim's views, nor his methods (does he really need to lecture someone before killing them?); but his current direction is one I'm OK with, and I'm very interested in seeing what happens. I mean, I expect this to filer up to Princess Luna at some point.
8121009
Yes. The references to penis binding, I think that would raise a few eyebrows. The drug use. And later, when a certain character comes back into the story.
Oh, all of the time Dim spends expressing the fact that he is not a motherfucker.
8121030
Hmmmmm. OK.
So my earlier comment stands: If the squick factor is too high for people, I expect it's because of the first chapter, and splitting it off into a one-shock (with this as sequel) may avoid future readers being put off.
I can understand if you think it's too late. However, if Dim's actions start causing effects in other stories, then people can find this story and hopefully not be immediately repulsed. I assume it's OK to reference this story by name in a non-Mature story, so long as there's no link
I don't know while DARK there are redeeming points to this story. DIM could easily go evil in someways, ways that aren't exactly acceptable to the masses. He knows more about the darker side of magic since he has training in it
8121062 Dim is walking that fine line between the Light and the Dark.... Kind of Like Bucky in some ways...
8121105 In someways Dim is darker than Bucky. Dim has training in the darker arts while Bucky graduated from Celestia's school for Unicorns
I very much agree with karl 8121009 if you did something like you did with The Mask Makes and the Pony and The Masks We Wear by moving the the first chapter to be his stand alone back story slap on a warning/TW in the description and I don't think anyone can really complain at that point having given ample warning. Though I do quite enjoy the mature and dark nature of this story
Though i don't personally agree with that, it would probobly help readership as that first chapter won't kill off so many. As long as i can get its complete form, im happy.
And oh the Wardens. I almost forgot about them (somehow...), but yeah, they would hunt Dim. And I'm assuming, if they caught him, while he would go out with a bang(a dark one that steals noise of course), he would be effectively murderized very fast.
If moving the first chapter to be a "here be darkness" story on its own is what it takes to keep this story alive and for readership to pick up then I support that. This story has a lot of weedverse potential and personally I am enjoying Dim as a character quite a bunch.
i say it like this... you keep dim, how or where... less important, you need another dark oc to have, the one that isn't "nice" a once that doesn't care about "right or wrong" and in this case dim also gives a whole different view about the rest of the ponies... the common folks
small priceless moments
If you're actually planning on having Dark show up in a more popular story, that might make go back and read his origin.
I'd be quite happy with that plan, particularly if it's the only way we're going to get more of this story. Dim Dark 's interesting and I don't want this arc to die, but I can see why you're prioritising like you are.
8120832 Hmm not really agreeing with this... Follower of Grogar depending on the how far gone they are range from totally crazy nihilist that would see the world burn just for the sake of it to self interested grifters that think that can scam the goat... Fundamentally all of them have no empathy whatsoever toward the rest of the world.
Dim doesn't seem like that, he has profoundly skewed ideas on the values of others but still considers among his duties to defend the others.
Yes he has a mean streak and a really big superiority complex, but it seems that he feels that his superiority does not entitle him to do nothing and exploit his fellow ponies, but that he has the duty to defend those who are not able to.
Most people are enjoying this story, and I think the majority of people kinda buggered off after the disturbing opening.
Therefore, less disturbing opening = more people reading??
8120961
His actions in this chapter put him more in the Lawful Neutral category. He tries to uphold the laws and preserve order so that makes him Lawful. He's willing to do harm or inflict pain but it isn't for his own pleasure and he also considers the effects his actions have on others before making a decision which is why I would say he's Neutral.
8121445
Dim still has an immense amount of good in him.
It's just... sleeping. Some might say it is pining for the fjords, but they would be wrong. It really is just taking nap.
8121600 This is why I REALLY want to see this continued ^^
I greatly enjoy reading about Dim and would prefer reading Eigengrau in its original form
I really want to rebel at the idea of changing the story at all, because you always have a purpose for each scene. Every detail is important (even if it's something as simple as "ponies have orange tongues"), and having future readers miss out on the full scope of Eigengrau as you have presented it- well, it would just be sad. Dim's character is practically reasonable given his background, and without all of the darkness that established him, I don't think anything he does would have the same impact. He just wouldn't be as strong as you've built him to be. Not everybody likes this sort of thing, but I feel that you should have the ability to write what you want how you want. As long as you write this, people will read it, because kudzuhaiku wrote it and kudzuhaiku is awesome.
At the same time, however, I can absolutely see why you would want to change it. Validation is critically important to artists of all mediums, and when you cannot physically see people's reactions, statistics like readership have so much more impact. I hate the idea of changing this, I really do, but I would not blame you if you did, and nor would I stop reading your work. I love it too much.
Don't change it.
The opening is what successfully sets Dim as the pony he is.
I find it funny that ponies are the only fantasy species that can use dark magic or shadow oriented and can form symbiotic harmony with it, except maybe the Drow. I think because ponies are a generaly aligning to harmony and harmonizing with whatever there special talent are. This my personal observation.
Don't change it, the opening shows what a monster he CAN be and was MADE to be, that is important to the story. Losing that you lose what makes Dim himself.
What does inverting a spell mean in this context?
Also, well played there Dim, that was quite the Midnight Gambit.
It might be too late to chime in on changing the format but after reading the comments on this chapter I'll pose the idea of taking the first chapter and breaking it out and expanding it into a short story that acts as a prequel to Eigengrau. I would like to see more of Dim's story whatever you decide and also wanted to try a suggestion that I hadn't seen yet. You do what you need to be happy.
8125290
Inverting the spell in this context allowed him to swallow fire with no ill effects, rather than belch it out.
Yes, Dim can breathe fire. It's a trick he picked up on his journeys away from home.
I love this story as it is
At this point in the story....I would say that dim is close to being Good. He already has quite a conscience, as seen when he spared the entire town. He refused to have anyone else suffer for his actions. There have been characters who are "Good" to "Okay" that have allowed such things to happen. dim's best quality is that he KNOWS he is severely fucked up, and that is trying to spend his life ensuring his own happiness, but also trying in his own way to make penance for the crimes of both himself and his family.
Prologues, almost by definition, are wastes of space. They are heavy with exposition and rarely contain any noteworthy action. In addition, everything revealed in a prologue can be delayed and revealed in the main story as remembrances or flashbacks. The only time a prologue is actually useful is in a series, where the proolgue summarizes important events in the previous books to help the reader pick up the story with a minimum of confusion ("Oh, right, that thing happened in book two and that's why the hero/ine is doing this now.").
I know an editor (Tor Books) who refuses to read prologues in manuscripts. After reading the book he reads the prologue to see if it had anything useful. He told me it hasn't happened yet.
If you went to that school and willingly work for Grogar, you clearly didn't learn very much.
Okay, wasn't expecting Dragonball Z, but not complaining. Dim should probably refrain from using the Kaio-ken, though.
Okay, this part threw me a bit. "Verbal spells" implies incantations, something that unicorns don't do to the best of my knowledge. Am I misunderstanding something?
This confuses me, too. How wide is their jurisdiction? Are the Gritish Isles part of Equestrian territory? I would've assumed that they were their own nation, but perhaps not.
Anyway, it seems I picked the wrong chapter to stop reading last time. This was good. Dim's thought process, alien as it is, is pretty easy to follow.