Chapter 21
Fillies and gentlecolts, though some of you may not appreciate this type of little chapter, considering that this fic was completed well over a year ago, I thought it wouldn't be out of line to let you fans of Welcome the Unknown know that it finally has a sequel out! It came to my head many months later, but I was determined to eventually get it down!
Anyway, for your reading pleasure, I present to you The Blessing and the Curse! Hope you enjoy!
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(reads the title of the story)
(reads a few chapters)
Well, I certainly wasn't expecting this story to be a good read. I welcome this story. Have a Like, and a Follower.
Also, muffins and waffles.
3852646
Why thank you!
3852605
Zanuka has over twenty kills under her belt.
3859340 I appreciate the feedback, sir. I admit it wasn't my strongest work, considering it was my first attempt at fimfic'ing and was done well over a year ago. I've tried to find editors and proofreaders but never seemed to have any luck. I'd like to think I've improved over time, and am honestly surprised at how well this was received early on. Sorry you didn't like, but eh, I suppose they can't all be positives.
3863796
/sigh...... Alright, let's do this.
Those comments were directed to the author in the hopes that he would take the criticisms people post on his story and try to improve, but since I've yet to see him reply to any of the various issues that I've seen people point out in the comments, I don't have much hope of that. Nonetheless, I didn't downvote the story because I feel that it's one that can be improved should the author choose to take the time to do so. I'm not entirely sure why you feel the need to describe people who disagree with things in the story as being "plothurt", or why you feel the need to ponify your insults (maybe it makes them seem "nicer" somehow? I don't know....), so I don't really have anything to say to that one.
As for the rest of your comment, I'm well aware of how pronouns are used. I use them quite frequently. The fact that you felt the need to quote what amounts to an elementary school text book to me is, quite frankly, extremely insulting. What you apparently failed to get from my previous post is that one of the issues that writers have to be careful of is how those pronouns affect the sentences they're in. Yes, there is no reason he can't refer to everyone and everything in his story as an "it", assuming he structures the sentences appropriately to compensate. The problem is that it becomes both confusing and unpleasant for the reader. The purpose of language is to convey meaning clearly, which is something that excessive pronoun use hinders. It's the same problem caused by things like purple prose and Lavender Unicorn Syndrome.
Matt may not have specifically called himself male until later in the chapter, but the girls all assumed him to be male from the first moment he spoke, which is enough to allow the use of a second pronoun to clean up the narrative and make it both less confusing and more appealing to the reader.
As for the comments about the ponies being out of character, that's really not something that can be negotiated on. One of the things that a writer has to deal with when writing another person's characters--in this case, the ponies created by the writers of the show--is that you have to match the personality created by their original writer. It may be true that unique circumstances or different backgrounds will result in different reactions, but that's not what happened in this case.
In this case, we're seeing the main characters of the show, in the same world as the show, with the same background as the show, in situations they've already dealt with in the show, but doing something completely different that wildly contrasts with their characters. Fluttershy ignoring the person possibly dying in the middle of the room is not "minor ooc behavior". Pinkie and Twilight ignoring those same injuries multiple times is, again, not "minor ooc behavior". The author quite clearly tells us that Matt is obviously critically injured and near death, and there is no possible way you can just explain away them ignoring that even though they both clearly knew what state he was in from the very beginning.
Similarly, when they all just sort of left him alone in the kitchen for several hours, that action went against several of their canon personalities with no reasoning unique to the story given. Rainbow Dash sitting calmly and patiently in a room for several hours while a strange creature is no more than a doorway away without even looking is not a "minor" ooc element. Fluttershy ignoring a scared and injured animal for several hours is not "minor". Twilight ignoring a new, potentially intelligent, species in Equestria for several hours is not "minor". It would have been one thing if there had been some sort of observation going on, but no, he was just left alone and completely out of sight of all of them. For hours. At that point it becomes unnatural for almost any personality type, regardless of what may or may not have been shown of them in canon.
Which ties into my comment about Matt's personality. I'm not expecting to know everything about him in the first chapter he appears in. What I am expecting is for the author to make me believe that he actually has a personality to be revealed, rather than him just being a cardboard cutout put into the scene for the sake of him being there. From the moment he wakes up, Matt doesn't feel like a real person. He feels like a placeholder with no thoughts or motivations of his own until the moment that AJ walks into the kitchen to begin talking to him. That also ties into my post on the next chapter about the overuse of bland exposition in place of actually showing us the events that are happening, since those skipped over events are where a character's personality is shown and developed.
Long story short, though the premise is interesting, the actual writing needs quite a bit of work. The author, as I said in one of my other comments, needs to find an editor and seriously go back over this story. Any potential the premise may have is meaningless if the writing can't convey it cleanly and effectively.
3864709 I actually did see the comment, but I've been busy the last couple days. I'd love to find an editor and/or proofreader but my attempts have been fruitless. This was my first attempt at writing and I was definitely a noob (plus this story has been completed for about a year or so), I'll admit to that. Reading other stories have helped since I began, so I'd like to think I've gotten better. Maybe when I have more time, I'd love to go back over things and iron them out more with someone helping. I have no idea when that'd be since I have several things that I'd want to put down first before I lose them from my mind. I do appreciate the criticisms though, any good and bad really. I'm always looking to better myself at what I enjoy doing.
3864749
As long as you continue to improve over time and learn from what you've done before, you're going in the right direction. As you pointed out, the story has been complete for a while, so normally I would say that going back and reworking a story like this one isn't really worth it unless it's something that you particularly want to do. But since this has a sequel, that brings up an entirely different issue.
Regardless of how much your writing may have improved since the original story was written, it's still serves as the first thing people see when they see the sequel and decide that it looks to be worth reading. Definitely don't sacrifice good ideas you have for your other works to come back to this one, but bringing this up to your current standards of writing should definitely be high on your list of priorities if you plan on making the sequel as long or longer.
As much as I would like to offer to edit for you, I already have more than I can handle in editing and real life issues. But even if you can't find a dedicated editor, even something like having friends or family look it over for you can help, since any outside perspective can help you spot issues that you didn't notice yourself. Aside from that, I wish you luck with your writing and much success with the sequel and what not.
3864709
You state it was an advice for the author to improve his story... Yet the first opening line you chose to get your positively intended advice across is:
, which is if I might add a bad start to get the author's consideration, seeing as you basically told him something along the line:
in the comments) over something subtle, like that opening statement, therefore I think it's justified, that I used "plothurt" as a retort.
"By all what is holy to me, I can't believe what I read, it's so bad (from my personal point of view) we need to stab it open and perform surgery, while it still can be fixed!"
Of course your wording was more subtle, but still obviously overdramatic display of your individual dislike or even distaste.
Alternatively, why not write something like: "While I enjoyed this and that, let me point out some flaws that could be fixed". Much better don't you think? Personally (just me), I'd rather hear the word "plothurt" (yes ponified to make it sound less vulgar, more funny...why would you prefer butthurt? This is fimfiction you can put
If you had approached this differently, I wouldn't have used that word, but I digress.
Moving on!
So sorry you felt insulted, I never intended to degrade your intellect. I used those "simple" examples, which are by the way used in middleschool in germany, making it not just elementary stuff for everyone, to further explain my point. Even if you won't appreciate that, some readers might do
.
You say it was confusing, yet I didn't share that confusion. Nor do I see any appearent sudden jumps between the perspectives, at least none that make it confusing, just a bit odd maybe on a few occasions.
I can agree however, while not as fatal as you made it out to be, that the word "it" was a bit overused in this particular chapter, as certain lines could have been worded differently.
Example: //(WARNING: DON'T TAKE AS AN INSULT)//
First line can stay the way it is, second line could be kept aswell though I would just write "jabbing repeatedly at the skin" since we already got the "wheres and whos" determined before and then maybe change to "and she could hear a large breath being slowly inhaled" or something like that. Then "appearently, Twilight's idea had worked and the creature[...]"
.
Makes 3 pronouns less
This is also probably what you meant.
Not quite. His gender has been ultimately determined, when he told Spike that he was male, his name was given a bit earlier:
.
After that, he is never again refered as "it" but as Matt, as a he or as a visitor.
You're refering to this?:
That is what the narrator, as description for the reader, states to draw a more detailed picture of the creature.
Even then, just because something sounds male, it doesn't have to be... ever heard female lead growlers in metal bands? Yeah try that, you could swear it's a guy growling.
But that's beside the point, since the girls still felt like this "beast" was an unknown creature, possible alien nature to them, they decided to keep refering to him as "it", until his name and gender was clearly given, which was understandable, considering the situation.
The narrator from the pitch of "it's" voice, assumed "it" was male (not the ponies, that was never stated clearly anywhere). The issue was that "he" still was an unidentified creature, and as such, still needed to be refered as "it", even from the narrators view.
If the narrator was "ALL KNOWING" this could have been handled differently, but then teh narrator would already have the name, gender and species of the visitor.
You mean it depends on the perspective of the narrator and their knowledge. Further there are several reasons why he can't refer to "everyone" as "it".
Persons are persons, things are things, it depends on the perspective of one, with their knowledge and disposition for something, to deem "something" worthy to be called "someone" and adressed appropriately.
"It" appeared to have a male voice, it was not determined if "it" really was male until ultimately the gender was given by spikes question.
For example (please don't be offended):
fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/141/d/e/put_your_ass_in_the_air_by_fluffomaru-d501tge.png
If you think this is a female pony, then I got some bad news for you.
Artist said it's a guy, hence appearence and wrong assumptions made this a trap theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/akbar.jpg .
And I guess cupcakes doesn't make any sense then? The author has no right to make pinkie slice rainbow because it's something the canon version of pinkie would not do, or any other crossover story where "unique circumstances" apply on a whim?.
Sorry but I have to disagree, if your assumption would be taken for granted, alot of different stories, possible universes of the multiverse, would lose their "right" to exist. Writers would either have to delete or compleetly rewrite their stories. Clopfics? Pff canon doesn't deal with that so screw them! Horror stories? Naah MLP doesn't deal with that scary stuff, gore is out of place and all possible reactions are null and void, so out the window with it...
There are stories where ponies fear humans.
There are stories where ponies don't give a buck about humans
There are stories where the mane 6 embrace the human visitor with open hooves, but there are also stories where they are reluctant to trust this strange being.
Besides, the unique conditions were already given right at the beginning, where Discord had broken free for the second time, which didn't even happen in the canon.
There were fairly only a few minor differences in their reactions to the human, in this story, but it wasn't "badly ooc"
If you want OOC, Go read "What came before and beyond" by Squid-Hoof, there the ponies are scared about the human, being a "carnivore" and all, enough to forbid him to enter ponyville. The story it'self, even if more gory later on, still turned out interesting.
A. Fluttershy was scared shitless
B. The human was out cold, they didn't know if his ribs were broken, for all they know he could have had ribs of steel. The gash wound while nasty as Twilight admitted didn't seem that "deadly" and was even dried already while they brought him to the library.
C. "critically injured and near death" was never stated, he had 1 dislocated shoulder, 2-3 broken ribs, else he wouldn't even have been able to move as much as he did, and a gash wound on his head which already was dried up pretty much at the library.
If you are near death you don't crawl around, relocate your shoulders, and hold a conversation with someone. He just hurt and they only knew about 1 obvious gash wound on his head.
Now while I also would have appreciated for Fluttershy to care about the human, the author decided this would be partially Applejacks role. Fluttershy was just to scared... if you think that's odd well look at this:
Fluttershy stares down a Dragon in episode 7, yet when the dragon migration happens, she is scared again and refuses vehemently to join the others.
Why so? She faced a full grown dragon once, why would she be scared of other dragons? Because it is in her nature and you can never exactly tell how much she is scared and how much that affects her perception.
I apologize for the "offending" examples I gave in my last comment.
To wrap things up, what bothered me the most about your comment:
- It CAN be rewritten, It does not NEED to be rewritten, as it is fine enough as it is.
- Ooc-behaviour here and there is part of crossovers and HiE fics, and everyone has a right to include it, if it's liked or not depends on the reader.
- While a bit bothering, the perspective issue is not as fatal as you made it out to be.
- Matt was not called "it" after they got his name and gender right.
That's all I got to say so far, I'll be off for the night.
I wish you goodnight sir!
3871751
This reminds me, I need to go put on Arch Enemy.
And then after the picture, Dude Looks Like a Lady.
...I'm so sorry.
3871769
That was my reaction too... at first I was like:
i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7955350016/h8A94624E/
then I read the comments under the picture and went like:
foodandfuel.co.uk/our-pubs/the-sporting-page-chelsea/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/nooooooo.bmp
so sad
3871751
I haven't read this story in full. I came here, because I got a notification that the story exists, but I was skimming the comments first when I came across this.
From FreeDictionary.com
tr.v. gut·ted, gut·ting, guts
1. To remove the intestines or entrails of; eviscerate.
2. To extract essential or major parts of: gut a manuscript.
From a cooking stand point, they're suggesting it wasn't properly prepared. You don't want to have the guts in your food and if the cook included them in your meal, you'd complain as well. However, I assume they meant it from the second stand-point, suggesting the story had a lot of unnecessary or ill-advised elements. It's the same as gutting a car or a computer, to add in better components.
Gutted isn't an impolite term, although I suppose it doesn't have the best connotation, since it implies that there is a lot wrong with what is already there, but the implication is to do so for the sake of improvement. I wouldn't find that insulting, merely vexing. Yes, perhaps that wasn't the best sentence to start off on, but the person who offered this criticism wasn't overly aggressive about it when offering their opinions, nor were they extremely obnoxious.
You could have made your point without also being a jerk.
This is a legitimate problem for someone to point out, even if you understood who the story was referring to. If this is Matt's POV, he is not an it. He is Matt and he knows his own gender. In English, which this story is written in, he is preferential to it, because it has a derogatory connotation when applied to a person. Therefore, people who speak English tend to think of themselves as he or she, unless they prefer an atypical gender which has no pronoun (but most of those people make up new pronouns, because it has a derogatory connotation.)
Even if this wasn't written from Matt's POV, the ponies were afraid of Zecora, assumed bad things about her, and didn't know what she was, but called her by female pronouns. They also refer to Iron Will, whom they also call a monster, by male pronouns. Every other character is referred to by the proper pronouns.
Admittedly they are all naked, so that doesn't make it as hard to look and notice the genitals in most cases. But there is overwhelming canonical evidence, in the English versions of the show, that using it isn't what the ponies would do and that's not a good reason to claim an AU tag, just to keep using that pronoun. It is more insulting to say it, even though it is grammatically correct, than to guess the wrong pronoun. It might be more embarrassing to guess incorrectly, but the pronoun it insinuates that the one being referred to is lesser than the speaker addressing them. It is what you use when you want to insult someone else to their face, unless that person asked you to use that pronoun when referring to them. In that case it would be appropriate, but otherwise using this pronoun is an implied insult. That's why there is a book, published in English, which has the title A Child Called "It", and it is an autobiography about a man who suffered emotional and physical abuse as a child.
This is why English speakers tend to use the plural forms, them and they, rather than the pronoun it when referring to a person on the internet of unknown gender. Them and they are grammatically incorrect, but not insulting.
If you don't believe me, then read this from Wikipedia.
Don't argue something if you don't understand the connotations.
This is from the story? I would revise it down to a single sentence, because quite frankly the last two sentences are entirely unnecessary.
She twisted the rag, to drain some of the water onto his face, and the creature twitched and inhaled deeply, before groaning.
We can assume that Matt is coming around by his reaction, and if not, the next sentence should immediately be about that. We can guess the ponies want to know more about him; that doesn't need to be stated. This isn't even a case of pronouns, this is a matter of sentence structure and unnecessary details.
It's possible to keep the focus on his face, by making it an eye twitch, but I think it's unnecessary, unless the POV character is going to study his face for a reason, such as comparing the differences or noting details that help to define his character. Otherwise, it can be left vague. Describing him moving into another position or reacting some other way that points out his injuries or something else is also possible. It's best to only add details that are important or which offer new information. It's fine for the author to slip in some things, because they want to make certain the reader can visualize it, but there is such a thing as too much or unneeded description.
I respectfully disagree after reading that paragraph that you sampled.
In fact, I'm going to revise the entire first scene, just for fun, and because I'm a jerk. Obviously some of my changes are personal preferences, but I think it flows a little better this way.
"Can't we just blast him and go home already?" Rainbow Dash asked.
She glared at the inverted horizon, where pigs flew underneath the plaid sky that was Ponyville. Luckily, gravity still worked the same. Nothing had fallen off the ground and into the sky, though Pinkie kept jumping to see if she could flap her forelegs fast enough to fly, while Fluttershy nervously watched.
Twilight nodded. "Right. Time to face the music, Discord!"
The bow of a fiddle stroked her under the chin and she scowled. Discord cackled wildly and proceeded to dance a jig around the group of ponies, while the fiddle hovered nearby and magically played on its own.
"I'm sorry, but I play it by ear! And it doesn't matter what you do now; I've already won!"
"Lame," Rainbow Dash said.
The Elements of Harmony glowed and lifted the ponies into the air as they activated, and when the girls opened their eyes, a bright light poured forth, combining into a familiar rainbow. The snap of his claws went unnoticed, just before Discord was completely engulfed in stone. Then the statue that he had become continued to grin as it fell over.
With Discord defeated, Ponyville was quickly restored. The ponies returned to the ground, their mission complete, and Pinkie bounced around, cheering in triumph.
"We won, we won, we won, we won!"
Applejack stared at the devious look on Discord's face uncertainly.
"Did that seem awful easy to y'all? Like, easier 'n last time?"
Fluttershy asked, "Um, what do you think he meant... when he said he already won?"
Rarity tossed her head dismissively.
"I think he was blowing hot air!" she said. "Some ponies always have to have the last word."
Then Rarity smiled at Fluttershy reassuringly, before glancing at the rest of her friends with starry eyes and a small gasp of delight.
"And I don't know about you," she added, "But after all this fuss, I think a visit to the spa is in order. If we go right now, we'll still have enough time for a half-day treatment!"
Twilight chuckled.
"I should send a letter first, so the Princess knows she can rest easy too, but that sounds like a great idea!"
This would be a decent story. The main problem was that the ponies' behaviour was wildly OOC for my taste.
3944214 Well, I figured with that scenario two things, 1) Discord isn't as defenseless as a cockatrice, 2) If a person came face to face with a kidnapper who basically ruined their life and started wailing on them, his friends would look the other way for a bit, arguing that he kind of deserved it.
4796846 No, actually. This was written a couple years ago, before the Lego Movie came out.
I like this new variant of the characters, not completely rewriting them, for example;
img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110612214407/gyropedia/images/5/52/RainbowDashAlwaysDressesInStyle.jpg
But Adds a fresh, new twist that freshens the old algorithim, and congrats on having a mostly original human introduction.
Bravo!
5169689 Hey there, thanks for checking out the older story.
Can't believe it's already been like, 2 and a half years since I started it. Where's the time go?
Anyway, while I've asked for any critiques here and there, few seem to have offered much, and while I've seen the Gary Stu post before and how to avoid them, it almost feels like it's harder than it should be not to make the OC eventually fall into such a territory. People overall seem to really like this tale, given the thumbs, but if our protag seems to fall into that dreaded label, any suggestions to improve things for any later projects would be greatly appreciated.
I don't think I'm the hottest shit on fimfic or anything, but I'm always looking to improve and reasonable critiques are the best way to go about it, after all. Hope you enjoy the rest of it, if you haven't finished or continued from this point (and if you have, the sequel too!).
3889280 ... hello two year old story that was probably one of the first to use the 'cliche'
7408646 Oh, thanks! I'll fix these up once I get home. I don't think I can sit on this site for long at work.
nice fic dude!
woot!