The Difference Between "Priceless" and "Worthless"
The faded red and green wagon was parked haphazardly on the edge of a dirt road, just outside of a forest. A make-shift camp was set up, and Flim lay on the ground, staring at the clouds in the sky, while Flam sat leaning against a wagon wheel in front of the fire, idly smoothing his mustache with a hoof.
Flam’s magic floated a log onto the fire. "I like the buffalo. Magic buffalo cures, it has a nice ring to it."
"You really want some buffalo tribe to find out we’ve been using them to make a few bits?" Flim raised an eyebrow, not bothering to look at his brother.
"That’s highly unlikely. They don’t have much business with ponies."
"Highly unlikely but highly dangerous. They don’t have much business with ponies because they don’t fit inside of buildings," Flim pointed out, rolling his eyes. His brother might have the brains, but when it came to street smarts he was about as effective as a genuine magic buffalo cure.
Flam considered that for a moment. "How fast do they run?"
"I suppose that’s an important piece of information at this juncture." Flim furrowed his brow in thought.
"Is there a town with a library we can set hoof in?" Flam frowned.
"That depends on if they know we’re—" Flim squinted at the sky, where a dark dot was circling over. "What’s that?"
The dot grew larger and more pony-shaped as it stopped its circle and headed towards the ground where they were camped.
Flam put a hoof to the edge of his boater to shade the sun. "It looks like—"
"A mail pony!" Flim finished, as the blue shirt and hat on the pegasus came into focus.
The brothers looked at each other then jumped to their hooves. Flim’s magic dumped a bucket of water on the fire, while Flam gathered a foreleg full of their personal — and potentially identifying — items from around camp and raced into the wagon. Flim hurried behind him, then they locked and barred the door.
Inside the wagon was dark, but Flam lit his horn. In the green glow it seemed more claustrophobic than usual, packed with boxes of their last few products, a sales stall, posters and banners and bullhorns. There was barely room for the two of them as they stood pressed together in the narrow space between objects.
They were silent and frozen inside for several long moments before a knock sounded at the door. Neither brother moved.
After a pause it sounded again. Then a stallion’s voice followed, "I know you’re in there. I saw you from the air."
A quick, silent conversation took place between the two unicorns, and finally Flim called out, "Who’s there?"
"Top Priority, Equestria mail service," the stallion answered. "Are you Mister… Flim?"
"Absolutely not," Flim said. "I am offended that you would think I have anything to do with that scoundrel."
"It’s painted on the side of your cart."
"That’s a very interesting story—" Flam started, but the pegasus cut him off.
"Look, I’m just trying to deliver a letter."
Flim cleared his throat. "We don’t accept bills, summons, subpoenas, or other legal documents—"
"Against our religion, you see," added Flam.
Flim went on, "So if you’ll kindly—"
"It’s just a letter. From Princess Twilight Sparkle."
With no idea why the Princess of Friendship might be sending him a letter, Flim raised an eyebrow at his brother. Flam just shrugged.
"Never heard of her," said Flim.
"She’s the pony who wrote you a letter," suggested the mail pony.
"Will accepting this letter in any way lead to my brother, and-or myself, getting arrested?" Flim asked.
"Uh, I don’t think so. It’s just a letter."
"Well…" Flim looked to Flam.
"Okay…" Flam said, nodding.
"I suppose we can accept… a letter." Flam opened the door, and the beige pegasus in a mail pony uniform presented a letter on the flat of his hoof.
Flim took the letter in his magic and stepped out of the dark cart, into the sunlight. "Thank you very much."
Flam stepped out after him, smiling at the pegasus. "It’s been a pleasure doing business with you."
Opening the letter, Flim started to read it as he barely listened to the rest of the conversation between his brother and the pony.
"Oh, before you go, would you be interested in purchasing a genuine buffalo magical charm? It promotes good luck, financial success, an active love life—"
"How much?"
"We aren’t sure yet, we haven’t made them. What would you pay?"
Flim’s eyes went wide at the paper in front of him. "Brother!"
"Never mind," Flam said to the pegasus, giving him a slap on the back. "If you’ll excuse us…"
The pegasus looked between them, gave a shrug, and took off into the sky.
Flam turned to Flim. "So, what have you found in that missive?"
Flim grinned. "Well, Brother of Mine, last time we were in Ponyville there was this mare—"
"There’s always a mare," Flam said, rolling his eyes.
"And this particular mare happened to be the cousin of our good friend Applejack..."
Flam’s eyebrow went up. "So we’re avoiding Ponyville."
"And our good friend Applejack got married to Princess Twilight Sparkle..."
At that Flam raised both eyebrows. "We’re avoiding all of Equestria?"
"Who, in her infinite friendliness and honesty, sent word that a foal was born of my little rendezvous, and that she and Applejack have taken him in. According to this, we’re invited to her palace where they hope to tie up loose ends and have me sign the adoption papers." Flim smirked and leaned against the wagon.
Silence fell upon the camp as that sank in. Finally, Flam spoke. "Brother, have I ever told you you have impressive taste in mares?"
Flim gave a laugh. "I believe you usually imply the opposite, Brother."
A grin spread across Flam’s face. "We have an in with a princess!"
"Planning is so much easier when opportunity falls in your lap."
Flam nodded. "I’m thinking a simple monthly fee—"
"—Deposited to a bank outside of Equestria—" Flim added.
"To start with."
Flim shook his head. "Let’s not get greedy, Brother. We don’t want to end up with a kid."
"They’re mares with a baby." Flam smirked. "They’d rather part with all the bits in Equestria than that smelly little thing."
Flim carefully folded the letter and tucked it in his breast pocket. "I have to say, this sounds like our most lucrative business venture yet."
"So what are we waiting for?" Flam said, his magic tossing everything that was left of the camp into the cart. "To Ponyville!"
The rushed trip to Ponyville left them little time for trouble along the way, and they arrived just a few days later. They parked the wagon safely outside of town, to avoid the citations and dissatisfied customers they often encountered within town limits, and made their way through the quiet streets of the small town. A few ponies eyed them suspiciously, but nopony pulled out the torches and pitchforks. Flim assumed they didn’t usually bring them along when they went out shopping.
As they passed the local bakery with its gingerbread trim, Flam nodded to the quaint, thatched-roof buildings across the street. "This is a nice town. It feels... homey."
"We’ll buy Mother a house here with our profits," Flim said.
Flam considered that. "Let’s see how her parole hearing goes."
"It’s in June. I hate Fillydephia in the summer." Flim frowned. There was no question they’d be going, their mother had raised them well. It wouldn’t do to miss a parole hearing unless one had a recent warrant.
"We’ll never have to go again if our ship comes in. In Fillydelphia or anywhere else," Flam pointed out.
Flim furrowed his brows. "Are you suggesting we’ll be going straight?"
"With a reliable source of income, why not?" Flam shrugged. "It’s difficult to spend large amounts of money in jail."
"I don’t know what I would do with myself," Flim said, shaking his head.
"Well, we could… live a life of leisure," Flam suggested.
"I suppose we could fit in a little more leisure," Flim agreed doubtfully. Their particular line of work was never heavy on the work part to begin with. "We could travel."
"We already travel." Flam raised an eyebrow. "We could buy things?"
"Salesponies are all con artists." Flim frowned at the normal ponies lining up at market stalls. He wondered why he’d never considered what he’d do if one of their business ventures was actually successful.
Flam sighed. "I guess I could set up a workshop."
"You had a workshop," Flim pointed out.
"Yes." Flam nodded. "Had. Past tense, indicating something I no longer have."
"The Super Speedy Cider Squeezy was a fine invention," Flim said, giving his brother a pat on the shoulder. He knew it was a delicate subject for Flam.
"I really thought that was our ticket." Flam sighed. "Perhaps if we’d been more reasonable with our licensing agreements. Perhaps if we’d been less ambitious with our claims. Perhaps if we’d been less... greedy?"
Flim raised an eyebrow. "I’m not sure what you mean. We were merely trying to acquire the proper compensation for your genius, Brother. That machine was a marvel of magical technology that would have made the ponies at Princess Celestia’s School for Gifted Unicorns jealous."
Flam chuckled. "I bet it would have if I’d gone."
Flim looked down.
Flam smiled and nudged him. "But how could I have, when there was no place for my talented and esteemed brother?"
"You flatter me, Brother." Flim gave a half-smile. "But I’d say we’ve made a good go of it."
They slowed to a stop. In front of them stood a huge crystal tree, with a golden door at the base and a castle perched on top. Flim looked up, and up, and up at it. An awful lot of bits would fit in a castle like that, and he hoped to extract as many as he could.
Flam gave Flim an excited grin, clearly thinking along the same lines. "A very good go, I’d say."
They bumped hooves, then walked up to the front door.
Their knock was answered by a small purple dragon, who led them through crystal halls into an elegant dining room, then left to find Princess Twilight and Applejack. Flim sat down at the large round table in the center and put his rear hooves up on it, while Flam examined the silk curtains.
It wasn't long before the door opened again. Flim heard a pony clear her throat behind him and looked over his shoulder. Applejack was standing there with the throat-clearer, a purple alicorn who looked vaguely familiar.
"You must be Princess Twilight!" Flam said, walking over to them and holding out his hoof. "And Applejack, of course, congratulations on the nuptials."
"We sent a gift, but it must have been lost in the mail," Flim added.
Princess Twilight frowned and shook Flam's hoof, while Applejack very clearly ignored it and walked over to the table. She gave Flim’s rear legs a shove, knocking them off of the table, before seating herself opposite him with a glare.
"Funny how ya' know that."
"Thank you for coming, gentlecolts," Princess Twilight said. She didn't look thankful, but her face was all business as she walked around the table and seated herself next to Applejack. "I hope this won't take long. As I said in my letter, Apple Fritter had a foal and named Mr. Flim here as the father. After a lot of thought, she decided it would be best for her to move to Appleloosa and put this affair behind her. We agreed to adopt the foal and just need Mr. Flim’s signature to make sure everything is in order. Do you have any questions?"
Flim leaned forward over the table and pressed his hooves together. Almost instantly Flam was sitting next to him, in exactly the same position. The brothers wore identical smirks.
"We did have a few inquiries." Flim tapped the tips of his hooves.
"Some blanks to be filled in," Flam added.
"For example," Flim pursed his lips and raised an eyebrow. "How do we know you have the means to care for a foal?"
Applejack fixed him with a stare so flat a carpenter would have been proud. "She's a Princess of Equestria."
"Is that a lucrative position?" Flam asked, feigning innocence as he raised his eyebrows.
Flim cocked his head. "Exactly how much does it pay?"
Princess Twilight shook her head. "I don't think that's necessary to go into. Applejack and I are very comfortable, and we'll have no problem supporting a foal."
"And even if Twilight wasn't a princess, y'all know I got some bits in my farm, ‘cause y'all keep tryin' to steal 'em," Applejack added, narrowing her eyes.
Flim gave his most charming smile. "'Steal' is such an ugly—"
Flam cut in, "—and technically inaccurate—"
"— word. We prefer 'creatively acquire.'"
Applejack’s glare remained unchanged. "Well I'd prefer seein' y'all hogtied and—"
"Let me handle this," Princess Twilight said, giving Applejack a disapproving look.
After throwing one last glare at the brothers, Applejack’s face softened as she looked back to Princess Twilight. "Sorry, sugarcube."
Princess Twilight gave her a nuzzle. Then she straightened and turned to Flim. "We have money. We can give this foal a good life. Any other questions?"
Flim took a breath. "Since you and Applejack are so comfortable, and we're sure your son wouldn't want his father to be uncomfortable, why don't we discuss some arrangement to that end?"
Applejack snorted. "Knew it."
"We can offer you one hundred bits to compensate you for travel expenses for your trip here," Princess Twilight said firmly.
"A hundred bits?" Flim gave a laugh.
"Are you kidding?" Flam asked with a grin.
"You're asking me to sign over my only son—"
"—his pride and joy—"
"—For one hundred bits?" Flim finished.
Applejack stood to her rear hooves, pounding the table with a forehoof. "You ain't even seen him! You left Fritter in that state and didn't even look back!"
"AJ!" Princess Twilight snapped, and Applejack sank back to her seat then crossed her forelegs, still glowering at the brothers.
Princess Twilight went on, "The hundred bits is not for the colt, it's for your expenses. You shouldn't expect anything for the colt. If you have the means and ability to give him the sort of life you think a foal should have, you're free to do that. If not, you should be grateful to have loving ponies who want to raise him well and do their best for him."
Flim smiled and shook his head. "With all due respect, Princess, let's be reasonable here. I technically have a right to something you want. Surely I deserve to be compensated for giving it to you?"
Princess Twilight raised an eyebrow. "Do you realize you're talking about selling a pony? Your own son?"
Flim’s collar suddenly felt tight, giving him an uneasy feeling. He adjusted it, unsure what to say.
Luckily, Flam spoke up, "Not at all! It’s simply something to ease the heartbreak of leaving behind a loved one."
Flam nudged Flim, who looked down and removed his hat, placing it over his heart. A surreptitious glance at the mares revealed that the princess was rolling her eyes, but Applejack’s glare had softened into something almost appraising.
"I don't see how money is going to help your heartbreak."
"Well, I can assure you it won't hurt," Flam muttered.
Flim placed his hat back on his head, putting his gaffe behind him as he went on, "And on top of that, there's the loss of income."
"Loss of income?" Princess Twilight cocked her head in confusion. "We'll be the ones caring for the foal."
"Yes, but you see, if we don't sign, and decide to raise the colt ourselves, he'd be sure to come in handy." Flim smiled.
Flam matched his smile and nodded. "In our line of work, a young, innocent foal could be quite useful. Worth a hundred bits a month in additional earnings."
"At least," Flim added. That was no lie, either. When they were boys, he and his brother had made their parents quite a few bits while learning the ins and outs of the family trade.
Princess Twilight narrowed her eyes and leaned forward like she was about the fly across the table. "You wouldn't..."
Both brothers just continued to smile.
She took a deep breath and let it out before she continued, "Do you realize you'd have to provide for him properly? Foal Protective Services would be notified if he was in any sort of unfit environment."
Flim raised his eyebrows. "I assure you my brother and I are experts at working with the Equestrian legal system. Of course, we would be willing to forgo the extra earnings if we were compensated, somehow."
"It's not right," Princess Twilight insisted.
Flam shrugged. "Right isn't our business, Princess."
"Well... it should be!" she snapped. Then the anger drained from her face, her ears drooping as it did. She bit her lip and looked at Flim. "We love that foal, and we want him, and we want to take care of him. Can't you set aside money for a minute to see this is another pony we're talking about?"
Flim opened his mouth, but he caught sight of Applejack again. She’d been sitting silently since her last outburst, and while there was no way to mistake her expression for happy, she looked less like she was imagining him tarred and feathered than usual. That threw him off more than the pouting princess, but if he could just get talking again, he knew he could land this deal.
Before he could start, Applejack spoke up. "Twi?"
Twilight looked to her and seemed to notice the lack of seething anger. "AJ, we can't. This is extortion and... and it’s practically pony trafficking!"
Applejack nodded. "I know. And I know we said you're handlin' this, but do ya' mind if I take Flim here for a little walk? We need to talk 'bout a few things."
Twilight raised an eyebrow. "Just talk?"
Flim raised one, too. "Not assault, menace, threaten, intimidate, or blackmail?"
She shook her head. "Nope, none of that. You got my word. Both of ya'."
"Mr. Flim…" Twilight hesitated, then shrugged. Her ears still drooped, and Flim suspected she was out of arguments. "If you're willing, Applejack would like a word with you."
"Well, actually, I think I’d rather—" Flim started, but Applejack got to her hooves and walked over to him. She just stared, then motioned to the door.
"Com’on now."
Flim looked at his brother, who just shrugged and started to stand.
Applejack glared at Flam. "Just me an’ him. I gave my word I ain’t tryin’ nothin’ funny."
She looked back at Flim and raised her eyebrows. Flim got to his hooves and followed as she started walking out the door and into the long crystal hallways.
Their hooves echoed in silence as they walked, then turned and went up a staircase. She didn’t seem in a hurry to do that talking, so Flim tried to memorize the layout in case he had to make a quick escape. Besides, it was the sort of thing that could come in handy someday.
On the second floor landing she stopped in front of one of several doors. She turned to him and said, "I reckon there ain’t much that means anything to you in this world."
He shrugged. "I can think of a few things."
She nodded and opened the door gently, raising a hoof to signal for quiet.
They walked into a nursery. There was a crib against one wall with a magical mobile of different colored stars slowly turning over it, a stand with a neat stack of clean diapers against the other wall, and an old rocking chair in one corner. A small bookcase held toys and books, and a lamp in the shape of a moon. The walls and ceiling were decorated with softly glowing stars and planets, and the dark fabric of the curtains on the windows was printed with a starry sky pattern.
Something about it reminded Flim of the Super Speedy Cider Squeezy. There was a difference between something thrown together out of need and the sort of thing a pony carefully planned, agonizing over details, which was built with care and enthusiasm. He remembered Flam working on his pride and joy and felt that same sense of dedication and purpose had put together this room.
Applejack walked over to the crib and motioned for him to follow. Then she nodded inside and said, her voice just above a whisper, "That boy’s your family as much as mine, for all I love ‘im more than my farm. Take a look at him."
Flim looked down into the crib. A cream colored unicorn foal lay there, asleep on his side on top of a crisp blue sheet. He had nothing but a wispy tuft of mane, but what was there was bright red with a thin streak of white. Flim had the strangest urge to reach down and smooth it out, like his mother had done with his own mane until he was old enough to keep it properly himself.
Applejack went on quietly, "Twilight ain’t budgin’. It’s the law, and it ain’t right. So, if you think you boys can give Shinin’ Apple a family…" her voice shook as she spoke, but Flim didn't look away from the foal.
For a moment, the arguments about the money slipped out of his head. He knew he could give his boy a family, there was no question about that. He could take him, travel with him, teach him as he and his brother had been taught. Watch him grow into a fine hustler, worthy of the family name.
"But before you make up your mind, look at him again," Applejack said firmly, holding the emotion back from her voice. "Then look at this room. Look at this castle, and this town, and at me an’ Twilight. Look real hard and think about five years from now, or ten, or twenty. When he goes to school, when he gets a cutie mark, when he wants to find a special somepony."
Flim glanced at Applejack, standing proudly with her jaw set.
She looked him in the eye. "Whatever you and your brother been after all this time, that boy can have it, easy as pie."
He looked around the room and thought about the walk through town earlier. But it wasn't the quaint houses or the giant castle that came to mind and stuck there. It wasn't even all of the bits that castle had to be worth. It was a letter, a single piece of mail from long ago.
His thoughts were interrupted by a loud scream from the crib. He looked down in surprise. The baby's face twisted, eyes searching for somepony to figure out what it might want while it made a sound Flim hadn't known something that small could make.
Flim looked over at Applejack and then reached down into the crib and picked up the squirming little colt. He tried to hold the kid and bounce him a little, but that did absolutely nothing to stop the baby's fit.
"Uh... there there?" he said, but the baby didn't seem to notice.
"Wanna let me try?" Applejack said.
Flim nodded and quickly handed her the colt.
She took the baby in a foreleg, swaying as she walked over to the rocking chair. By the time she sat down, his screams had turned to whimpers. She cuddled him close and murmured a little tune as she rocked, and he quieted into a wordless, curious stare.
Flim watched her as she cuddled the child. "You fight hard for your family."
"There’s nothin’ more important to me," she said, not looking up as she smoothed the colt's mane.
He nodded. "I know."
After a few moments, Applejack stood up, still cradling the colt. She started to walk towards the door. "Ready?"
Flim nodded and followed her out to the staircase.
"This here’s my final offer," she said, as they walked back through the castle.
His ears perked, wondering if maybe she was desperate enough to toss him something behind her wife’s back.
But she went on, "I can’t offer ya’ money. But I can send ya’ pictures and letters ‘bout how he is. We can set up a mailbox, and you’ll have my word it’ll be safe to check it, no matter what y’all get into. And someday, when he’s older… I’ll tell ‘im who you are, and y’all can meet him if ya’ want."
Flim looked at the foal as they stopped at the door to the dining room. The kid seemed content in Applejack’s foreleg, reaching for her dangling mane. Flim closed his eyes and shook his head.
"No."
Applejack’s face hardened, but Flim went on quickly, "Don’t tell him who I am, and don’t tell him what I do. Just… tell him his father loves him."
She looked at him for a moment, then gave a small smile. "I’ll tell him that. And I’ll tell him his pa’s a good stallion at the core."
Flim smiled back and raised an eyebrow. "Let’s not get carried away."
They walked back into the dining room. Flam and Princess Twilight looked up curiously, and Applejack nodded. "Twi, let’s see those papers."
Princess Twilight floated a piece of paper and a quill over to Flim, as Applejack brought the foal to her.
Flim watched as the princess's face lit up, and she nuzzled the foal and Applejack. Then he took the quill in his magic and signed the paper in front of him.
"Come on, Flam. Let’s go," he said, motioning to the door. Flam was clearly confused by now, but he stood up and headed out the door. Flim was only a step behind.
"Thank you!" `Princess Twilight called after them. Flim looked over his shoulder, taking in the little family one last time, and tipped his hat.
As they walked back to the wagon, Flim watched the normal ponies wandering around the town. Normal little colts and fillies ran from one place to another, or huddled together in groups. Foals who lived in those thatched roof cottages. He felt sorry for them, they didn’t stand a chance.
Flim and Flam were both quiet until they were out of sight of the castle, but as soon as they were Flam leaned in and asked urgently, "Did she offer you something? How much did we get?"
"Nothing," Flim said, watching the townsponies as they walked.
"Brother." Flam narrowed his eyes. "Nothing is quite a bit less than this venture promised."
"But nothing is what it yielded," Flim glanced at Flam. "And in the future we won’t be approaching the princess, the Apples, or Ponyville with any plans, business ventures, opportunities, once in a lifetime offers, bargains, wagers, or teeny, tiny requests."
Flam’s mouth fell open. "But… why? Flim, we have an opportunity here. Even if we didn’t get anything this time, we can always try again later. At the very least they owe us a favor if we were to find ourselves in a situation."
Flim kept up a steady pace away from the castle. "If we play this right, my son, your nephew, is going to be raised by a princess, in a respectable home. He’ll have the finest education; if he has even an ounce of talent his name will be on the rolls to take the exam at Princess Celestia’s School for Gifted Unicorns from the time he can make a spark. If not, he’ll inherit a thriving farm and be seen as a pillar of his community. There isn’t a mare in Equestria who wouldn’t court him, not a door that won’t open for him…"
Flim paused and took a deep breath in and out. "And all we have to do for him, Brother, is not look back."
Flam cast a suspicious glance at Flim and looked like he wanted to say something.
"Just let me do it this time?" Flim added with a pleading glance at his brother.
Flam didn't answer right away, but as they reached the edge of town he finally nodded. "The kid’s a natural. Mother would never forgive us if we tried to edge in on a long con."
Flim smiled as the wagon came into view. "So, Brother of Mine, what do you think ponies think magic buffalo charms look like?"
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a loved one.
Also, be still my beating heart.
This is indeed beautiful. Not perhaps as drawn out as your other works (Something I like about them) but still beautiful and it rings very true.
Bravo.
You mean this isn't the Sunset and Zecora entry?
i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz194/PepperPilot5/1456121770821.jpg
...
Ah well, still gonna upvote the shit out of this!
7224221 I'll get to that one eventually, I promise.
The hell is your fascination with lesbians? Good God man.
7224320
I've been into lesbians longer than I've been into ponies... If I had to make a guess, I'd say it has something to do with being a woman who's occasionally attracted to women.
Your story is really beautiful, I enjoyed it from the very beginning to the end. I really like how you portrayed the two brothers and created some good in Flim and Flam. I'll be sure to check your other stories, thanks you for such a beautiful tale!
Excellent work. The Long Con indeed. As the brothers age and eventually reach that time when they can no longer trick bits out of unsuspecting widows and orphans, they can be assured of at least one honest and probably well-to-do relative to provide them safe haven in times of trouble, trauma, or rheumatism.
Dammit, bookplayer. Now I can't get Grandpa Joe singing that out of my head.
Normally, I prefer your Romance stories over your typical Slice of Life ones but this one struck a chord with me. It's sweet and funny.
7224471
The hell with Grandpa Joe--now I can't get Eric Cartman singing that out of my head
7224821
Eh, I'm an old fart (at least in Internet years). I prefer the classics.
Thank you for the good read. What a great appraisal of the Flim Flam brothers, and nice job keeping them true to their despicable nature and sympathetic at the same time. The ending is both clever and sad at the same time... I like how you didn't show for sure whether it was him just convincing his brother or if he had really internalized it in such a way.
7224320 son, if you've got some kind of problem with lesbians, might I suggest that you're probably in the wrong place?
7224357
Stories about lesbians are stories about people!
7225917 7225718
Ok, lesbians are people, but they cannot have children of they own. Gays, as well. And if they adopt and inspire the child to be gay too, he/she won't be able to have children, either.
That's why I am for "don't ask, don't tell". Maybe not only, but we have to be tolerant here.
7225966 You are aware that every single psychology review, and scientific study done. Has proven beyond any doubt what so ever that the children of gay/lesbian couples do not in fact ...paraphrasing your own words here "become gay". I might suggest you rethink your 'view' in light of the fact it has no basis in reality or science.
7225966 Don't look now, but 60% of lesbian identifying households in the San Francisco suburbs have children. Some of that is probably adoption, but most is probably children from previous encounters or artificial insemination... It's actually not that hard for lesbians to have kids.
Not to mention what 7226047 said.
So your concern for the future of the human race is... we'll go with "misplaced."
7225966
Not really how that works. Good on you for trying to be tolerant though. It can be a long road, and it requires a lot of learning and unlearning. Its one of those journeys that no one ever truly finishes, but sometimes we meet people that have traveled further, who might be worth listening to. I wish you luck on your travels.
7225966 No one can "inspire" someone to be gay, son. Gay isn't a learned behavior. Please leave the 20s, come join us in the 21st century.
Great story, though I wish Flim and Flam where more complex, they still seem to be Saturday morning villains while you made Twilight and Applejack much more complex. Flim is a bit more interesting but he still doesn't seem to really care that much either way in the end, he's just going through life.
Also, did they re-name the kid Shining Apple? I wonder if that's going to interfere with him finding his cutie mark later.
Wow, 7 reds so far! I'm honored. Not Aurora level yet, but still ^-^
7226047
I'd be grateful for a link on one, or better some stats like percentage of people from gay families becoming gay themselves, compared to average. Honestly, I'm not sure whether someone can now publish a study that paints gays in negative light, especially as even Secretary of the Army is now Eric Fanning.
7226145
Children from previous encounters - are like adopted for another partner. Artificial insemination - that's like having sex with random people to get pregnant, except without sex. Anyway, children go after parents, aren't they? So there will be no role model for a boy in lesbian family. Widowed families face same problem, but they're clearly not a norm.
7226152
To be honest for me "tolerance" reminds about "immune tolerance". In other words, "those gays/pedophiles/black people are people too, it is not really okay to shoot them on sight". And I won't. But when every newspaper shouts "this is norm" - it's not tolerance, it's propaganda.
7226183
Yeah, I've heard like "some children look and SUDDENLY understand that they want to be gay, or change gender, or something like that". But in my opinion most if not all studies on that subject don't take media coverage in this account. When everywhere is sail like "gays are creative", "lesbians are good" and "if you're heterophobe, you're outdated", children listen to it and get ideas.
7226421
People like you are why when people like me are growing up they need to..."""get ideas."""
Which, in the real world, means "realize they are not crushingly alone, or alien monsters, and maybe don't have to be absolutely terrified of coming out and accepting who they are and what about themselves they are physically unable to change. Only maybe, though, because people like you continue to exist despite all the science and research showing that they're wrong." But excuse me, not alienating kids for things about themselves that they can't change is propaganda.
Go ahead and hide behind your shield of 'the science is still out on this' all you want, buddy, everybody knows you're a bigot.
7224320 Hey, Aj and/or Twi might be Bisexual too, not just lesbian
7225966 Just because a child is raised by a same sex couple doesn't mean they will grow up to be a homosexual.
The human race will endure.
I'm crying.
Why am I crying.
Seriously. I'm just laying in bed and crying.
7226486 Okay, in Africa there are still tribes who practice cannibalism. Let's assume that some people in Europe also do. If they want to come out, then what? Will you scream "Monsters" at them? Or will you tolerate?
Okay, not so drastic example - zoophiles. Will you be tolerant to them? Or, maybe, that's not a psychological disorder, but genetically coded state of mind? Maybe it should not be frowned upon, and legalized instead? (Ignore that we're on MLP site and there are lots of smut HIE fics: ponies are at least intelligent, and there are no other humans there -) ).
Or, pedophiles. I've heard that pedophilia is said to be a gene-defined property, not a mental illness. Okay, assume it is. But will you tolerate pedophilia, if one of them molests your child? I certainly hope not. And when I see all of this fuss with gay pride and transsexual WCs and "toleration of unusual behavior" under my windows - I feel like this. And the best part is that there's 5% of LGBT people in US at most, but they make it look like that there's 50%, if not 500%.
BTW, 14 dislikes on first comment. Any more haters?
7226683
And here it comes -- comparing homosexuality to bestiality, pedophilia and effing cannibalism. I think that's the new Academy record!
Dude, you're not fooling anyone. Your brand of "But think of the kiddies / future of humanity!" concern trolling is an old hat. And your appeals to tolerance aren't clever, aren't relevant and aren't interesting. They're stale wannabe gotchas, and you're not impressing anyone here. Get lost, will you?
7226421
Well, only 48% of kids, as of 2014, live with both of their original parents. The rest of them are adopted, live with a step-parent (so, "like being adopted by the other parent,") or live with a single parent.
And apparently living with a single parent, or with two adults of the same gender, is bad because... all adults of the opposite gender cease to exist? It's totally impossible for them to have teachers, uncles, coaches, grandfathers, or friends parents as role models?
I mean, I'll join you in your bold, Anti-Amazonian stance against segregating kids away from all males, but the people we're talking about actually exist in our world, where there are plenty of potential role models of all genders who just don't happen to be having sex with their mom.
So... let's say this is true. Let's say lots of people are actually bisexual, and they've only been straight because it seemed cooler, but if they think it would be fun they can have sex with people of either gender. So showing them gay people might make them decide that's more fun.
SO WHAT?
Why do you care if they decide being gay sounds like fun? Your continuation of the species argument isn't panning out. No one is forcing anyone to be gay. If we lived in a world where absolutely everyone could pick partners for sex, romance, marriage, and childrearing from either gender, how would this affect you in any way?
7226683
You can hide behind your false equivalency shields all you want, too.
Have fun being the next generation's version of a racist grandpa.
7226421 Hoss, if that sort of thing were changeable, I'd have willed myself Bisexual by now. But I haven't. Y'know why? Because that can't happen.
7226683
Here's the thing about your slippery slope argument that always makes it fall really, really flat to most readers: you're completely ignoring the issue of consent.
Cannibalism: generally speaking, the person being eaten probably hasn't given their consent to be eaten.
Zoophilia: unless we're talking about magical pastel ponies in a fictional utopian society, I'm pretty sure most animals aren't considered capable of consent.
Pedophilia: seriously, why are we still having this conversation.
Contrast this with...
Homosexuality: two people who want to have sex are having sex. Or, <gasp>, two people who are the same gender aren't even having sex, they're just dating and kissing and enjoying romantic time together.
I mean yes, I get it, you don't like gay people. But if you're going to argue that our culture is hopelessly biased in favor of deviant lifestyles, could you please try to find some compelling arguments that I can't shoot down in under two minutes?
Dangit, I feel like this deserves a sad tag for Flim and Flam. It's touching, and I would love to see what happens in 20 years, but he should have gone for that mailbox!
Also, decent title, but I would have gone with "All in the Flamily."
I reviewed this story as part of Read It Now #78!
My review can be found here.
7226421 I actually studied about the topic at my university because it has these topics in the studies as subjects. And well after reading a lot of the replies well how to put it....
Can all of you stop talking fallacies?
Ad hominem
Ad verecundiam
These are always the most used in these kind of debates.
Besides he has fair points, and rather than argumenting in the right way you decide to attack or give bad examples. Guys, face it a woman can't be a man and a man can't be a woman. They can act like one but at the ed is fake, is like trying to say that a common rock is a gem after doing a few things to it. Now I'm marked as a racist, discriminator or perhaps homophobic? But you ever wondered why you think like that? A person who is arguing against these things is marked as an everything bad that should be avoided, have you ever bothered to think why you think like that? You obviously didn't start to think like that out of the blue did you?
Then the commonly answer is love is unknown or love can come in many shapes, then before you can say that please answer me what is love?
If you thought Love is a feeling then you are wrong from that very point. According to real studies about the topic and not whatever thing the society or the internet tells you love is an art that must be learnt and practiced. And from there love is divided in many branches that divide it in types of love.
Now then comes the thing about equality, guys equality is already there. They can have a decent job, a decent house, decent food, same rights. You know something? Sometimes the worst thing that you can do is give them exactly what they want.
Also something that really shocked me to no end is this argument that is taught in some schools, you don't know your sexual preferences until you have proved them.
Seriously WTF
Wait you want more?
To be blunt my PERSONAL opinion about this whole thing is that homosexuality is only a mean to promote and sell sex to people.
Now with that said good work author the story is good sadly people take this to other levels that its main reason wasn't that in the first place.
7227483
Actually, what I'm really wondering is why you think it's important to comment on my story about this. The "debate" was over a long time ago, decades before I published this story. Your side lost. There are lesbian and bisexual women with kids.
I have no problem with you. I was just trying to help you out, since your
sock puppetfriend with a suspiciously similar name, writing style, and zero account activity in well over a year seemed to think it was still going on.Very nice story! I honestly didn't expect this touching, somewhat somber ending and was mostly expecting a comedic backfiring of epic proportions on Flim and Flam. The actual resolution rings true and feels totally natural while still unexpected. Impressive!
Flim and Flam's banter and back-and-forth are spot-on too. Their characterization is a real highlight of the story, and giving them a little extra background as career con-artists whose trade runs in their family is a very nice touch. This one is going on the ol' Favorites shelf.
He drank strong waters and his speech was coarse;
He purchased raiment and forbore to pay;
He stuck a trusting junior with a horse,
And won gymkhanas in a doubtful way.
Then, 'twixt a vice and folly, turned aside
To do good deeds -- and straight to cloak them, lied.
Interesting. You gave him a Han Solo moment--and then sort of yanked it back when you had him rationalize it as a long con. Who was he rationalizing it to, I wonder? Himself? His brother? Was he even rationalizing it at all?
The questions make me ask a larger one: do Han Solos even exist?
The good-hearted rogue, the fellow who'll lie, cheat, steal, seduce and abandon but, when it comes to the crunch, do the right thing. Is he real or just a myth? Because in real life I've found that somebody who's a jerk 364 days a year will be a jerk on Christmas Eve too. And even if he isn't he's still got that 364-to-1 ratio going. That's kinda defining.
But we all want to believe: You're clear, kid--now let's blow this thing so we can all go home! How they cheered. How I cheered. If the type disappeared from fiction we'd be a lot poorer.
If they aren't really real, then, goodhearted rogues can still be great to tell stories about. Like unicorns.
7227699
I find it's not uncommon for bad people to have a category of people they won't be jerks to. Mothers, family in general, or friends who have "earned it" are popular choices. It's up there with "but I had a good reason" in terms of how they avoid thinking of themselves as "bad people."
It's always been one of my favorite details that, as foils for the Apples, Film and Flam are also family (and seemingly close, given their habit of finishing each other's sentences and "brother o' mine" stuff.) I like to think that's genuine, and that's their line: ponies are marks, but family is different.
As for the rationalization, I think it's for both of them, to reassure themselves that their current life choices are still superior, and properly consider the kid as family.
7227841
Very true, and I've observed it in history myself. It's rather depressing how many hideous men were decent fathers and husbands.
But now we're talking about Tony Soprano rather than Han Solo.
I've been banging my head against my keyboard for hours trying to find the most polite way of saying I didn't like this story. I have considered that this was for a contest, and that there was a time, theme and word limit, so I don't think that all of the criticisms that I have would be fair. I will say that I liked the interaction between Flim and Flam—although I'm not sure Flim's personal characterization was very good—and it provided some good worldbuilding, characterization and potential for tension. Aside from that, though, the story felt really sparse in every other way—which I attribute to the word limit.
But considering a) I didn't participate in this particular Write-Off, b) the majority of my criticisms could be attributed to the word & time limit, c) this topic is something different and has something important to talk about, and d) the biggest criticism I have can be considered a nitpick and not related to the main part of the story, I'm going to avoid going too in-depth with my comment. I just wanted to comment that I did read it, and it wasn't for me. I apologize for that.
I wish you success with your future endeavors!
that ending reminds me of Jesse and James from Team Rocket. One brother's got a heart of Gold, the other has a good heart, but it's buried under heaps of nasty.
7227592 Honestly, Book... your fans are insane. Where do you find them?
It's always very inspiring to see such heated debates in comments sections. It's nice to know people still care about issues.
7227941
Well, consider what's the key thing about Han Solo in the movies: he changes.
He starts off as a mercenary scoundrel only interested in getting paid. He cares about his ship and Chewie, but that's it; he scorns the Force, sees the Empire as nothing but an obstacle to be worked around, and Rebellion as risky foolishness. Yet at the end of the first movie, he -- after having been paid handsomely for his part in saving Leia -- comes back to help.
Han never goes back to being that scoundrel he started off as. He grows to care about the Rebellion and the Rebels, joining their idealistic crusade even though it means he's now hunted by the Empire and Jabba's bounty hunters. Sure, his personality doesn't change much; he's still cocky, impulsive, daring, overconfident and cynical. But who he is, in relation to the rest of the universe, changes completely.
7225966 You can't inspire a child to be any sexual orientation. They either are or they aren't. Closest thing to what you're suggesting is when people confuse bisexuals like myself for being 'turned gay' or 'turned straight', out of ignorance, but that's a different ball of wax altogether, since people like you like to pretend we don't exist at all.
7225966 Oh god... I thought this shit was nearly over after two years of fighting against it.... instead I just find that it's spread to Fimfiction. IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE!?
7227699
I think 7228777 nailed it; Han Solos do exist, but they're the lovable rogues who go straight and stop being criminals. Being a criminal requires a fundamental disregard for the well-being of other people; Han Solos are the people who go to the brink, or maybe beyond it, and then change and decide to become better people because they've seen over the edge or simply realized that they aren't very good people, no matter what they say to themselves.
Though I suppose there's always kleptomaniacs.
7226706
Interestingly, it doesn't seem like this is a major issue to begin with. It is pretty well established at this point that children living in divorced single parent households are significantly worse off than children living in two parent households. However, children of widows and widowers do much better that children of those who break up with their partners, suggesting that the actual cause probably isn't the lack of an extra parent so much as it is the general stability of the household and stability of the parent.
So, kids probably don't need a mother and a father, and can make do with just one - the thing is, they need to be a responsible, stable human being. If you have two parents, one of them not being the best can probably be compensated for a bit. If you only have one, and they're a screw-up, you're pretty much hosed.