The End
Alas, this story is never to be finished. But for those of you curious what would have happened, here are my remaining notes, including the ending!
The core chapters continue with the same theme. Each time, Celestia teaches Twilight a lesson that is helpful and age-appropriate, but technically founded on a lie, while Luna presents the cold truth. The other chapters I had in mind were:
- Cheaters Never Win
- Looks Don't Matter
- Race Doesn't Matter
- Money Doesn't Matter
- Words Will Never Hurt You
- Unconditional Love
- Hard Work Always Pays Off
But along the way, we start to see other chapters where she runs into her friends. In each of these chapters, she knows her friends and they know her, but they're certain they've never met, except to say: "Maybe I dreamed about you." You've already seen two of these published, Destiny (Rarity) and Integrity (Applejack). The others were:
- Meritocracy (Rainbow Dash): Rainbow realizes that no matter how good a flyer she is, she can't get into the Wonderbolts without connections. Twilight is happy to pull some strings.
- Tradition (Pinkie Pie): Pinkie Pie learns that the "traditional values" that make her family life so dour and grey are very recent creations of her conservative culture, and that most of the stories her parents told her are lies. Furious, she leaves home for Ponyville.
- Nature (Fluttershy): Fluttershy learns that nature isn't beautiful like it is in parks. It's savage and cruel, and animals prey upon each other to survive.
As Twilight continues to get older, she becomes more self-aware of the fact that something is going on. She can remember that she learned things in her dreams, or that things happened she sortof remembers. Eventually, she can remember Luna while she's awake, but when she goes to tell Celestia, she finds that she can't. Twilight lies in bed, worried that she's possessed.
Eventually, the day of the Summer Sun Celebration comes, and Twilight goes to Ponyville to meet all her friends, who are waiting for her. Rarity has made for each of them a hair-clip just like the one she made for Twilight, showing her cutie mark (five stars). They all wear them, and silently proceed to the Castle of the Two Sisters to get the Elements of Harmony, successfully retrieving them before the mid-afternoon. When Celestia comes to raise the sun, she's surprised to see Twilight already there, and already with the Elements, when Twilight says: "The stars will aid in her escape."
Celestia screams, and is trapped in a cage of magical energy, when the Mare in the Moon returns to the world. Twilight and her friends look at her mentor, and look at the Elements of Harmony, and ask what happens now.
"Did I not tell you," Luna replies, "that on the longest day of the thousandth year, I would stand in Ponyville, and would utter unto you a truth, and you would not be able to deny what stood before you? And that at that time, you would know your destiny?"
"Yes," Twilight replies. "So what's this truth?"
Luna holds up a hoof for silence, and they wait. Celestia pleads with Twilight and her friends to destroy Nightmare Moon, to use the Elements of Harmony against her, to do this or that or save the day. But all Luna does is signal for them to wait a moment longer, and Twilight and her friends do so wait.
A few moments later, without Celestia or Luna doing anything, the dawn comes, and Luna tells Twilight: "The sun rises."
Twilight demands an explanation from Celestia, who says she wanted to put an end to the fighting between the three pony tribes. A thousand years ago, she made up the idea of a sun goddess, as a way of giving the three tribes common ground. A way to unite them, she says, without conquering them. But Luna, dedicated absolutely to the truth, wouldn't have it. The two came to blows, and Celestia was forced to banish her sister with the Elements of Harmony.
The Element of Honesty, she explains, turned to stone first, and the others quickly followed. But it was all worth it, because she brought peace and prosperity to Equestria. A thousand years without a war, without a revolution, without a plague or a famine. And of course, things aren't as perfect as she likes to make ponies think, but they get a little bit better every year. And she asks: "Doesn't the greater good justify one lie?"
And after a lot of thought, Twilight replies. "I forgive you."
Then she walks away.
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Noice.
Of course it would have been great to have the whole thing, but that takes time that you would prefer to direct to other things. Few authors are so thoughtful as to give this at some point after dropping a story.
And knowing pretty much how the end scene was going to go is great. I can imagine it well enough.
I’m disappointed that this story ultimately won’t continue, but I’m also happy that, instead of you just leaving it as marked ‘Cancelled,’ you think to tell us what happens after. It was a wonderfully philosophical(?) story with controversial sides of the lessons and no clear right or wrong. I enjoyed the plot at the end (Definitely unexpected) and this was clearly a very thought out story with your ending in mind from the very start.
You’ve definitely earned a follow from me either way!
~Meowofy
I am sorry not to have the whole story, which could have been beautiful, but I am very happy to have closure instead.
Thank you.
I'm glad we can get closure. It tends to be rare all too frequently. Thanks.
This moment, even told as it is here, is amazing. I got chills. It’s a shame it won’t continue, but what’s here is well worth reading regardless.
10742135
agreed
though I suppose there's not much to stop us from making chapters heh heh
thank you for this bit
Thankyou for the time you put into this story.
And without being a lengthy echo of the other comments, thankyou for sharing the notes you laid out for its continuation and ending.
Man, now I want it to continue even more. =(
Edit: And your story just got featured too.
This was one of my favorite stories of yours. I was really hoping to be able to get a printed copy of it, and was holding onto the idea so, so much. There were just so many fascinating little tidbits here, and I'm really sorry to see it end like this because the gradual build of this drama was only getting more interesting with each chapter. Seeing these notes honestly only made me want to read the rest even more.
Huh. Huh. I honestly don't know what to make of that planned ending.
On one side, I of course don't want to just say that Celestia was right...but at the same time, I'm not so sure Luna totally is either.
I mean, let's look at the facts here. Sure, Celestia lied, to a whole nation for a thousand years, and effectively banished her own sister so to keep the secret. But...excepting Luna, it's hard to really say the lie was hurting anyone, because as Celestia says, with that lie, she was able to bring the ponies together and keep the peace for a thousand years straight, WITHOUT resorting to any long and bloody wars to do it. Sure, the world she built still isn't perfect, but it's definitely in the right direction and a lot closer to it than some of real life's societies can claim. You really can;t help but ask if that one lie really is worth the good it was able to bring.
Then you have Luna, who would've just bluntly told the truth and dealt with the consequences, which may seem morally stronger...but would that route have also paved way for a similar era of peace and unity? Almost certainly not. Especially considering Luna's tactless and uncompassionate ways of delivering this truth, as this fic demonstrates repeatedly. And there's the whole shady, underhanded, and manipulative way she goes about doing this...all really just to prove a point, as if just to have the last word and say "I was right, you were wrong," but it's not as absolute as that. And how was it that Obi-wan put it? "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." And we all know how that turned out. So I can't help but think Luna's approach isn't the better one either...and the implication that Luna likely fails to recognize such shortcomings is...worrying.
But then maybe this is all on me, because fairly early on in this story, I had concluded neither Celestia or Luna were fully in the right, and it would be through trying to teach Twilight their opposing viewpoints that they come to realize that, and inadvertently help Twilight (and friends) to become better than them both and rise above their own shortcomings. In short, everybody learned and improved from the experience and would be the better for it moving forward. But instead this leaves me feeling like it's still one side opposing another and overall feeling ununified...which sort of flies in the face of some of FiM's core principles.
Of course, this is just the cliffnotes version of the ending. If I'm overanalyzing just this much of it, imagine how much further it'd go with the full actual ending, had it come to pass?
That's what was great about this story. It forced you to confront those uncomfortable truths in all of our lives, ones we'd rather not think about, but know, deep down, we can't actually deny them as truths. And then we'd be left trying to come to terms with those truths and what that means for us and the life around it, in addition to the characters in-story. And that was great, very thought-provoking, and I'm glad that, even though the fic won't be seen to it's full conclusion, you're still giving us this much not just to give us closure, but also to get us delving into those truths and the lies we tell ourselves to try and put them out of mind...one last time.
10742280
This reply right here. Yes
This story got top and it deservers it Thank you for the story!
10742280
...I’m pretty sure that a huge point that’s being missed here is that there didn’t have to be a lie in the first place. If Celestia is this obsessed with lies that she would banish family to maintain them, who is to say where she’d draw lines in other areas of her life? Lying to those close to her about how she feels, what is best for her subjects, to foreign leaders she has to see as peers... the list goes on and on. Anyone with a marked inability to tell the truth this deep shouldn’t be in power. Ever. When you value kindness over honesty to the point you are willing to put the effort that could go into genuine diplomacy and peace-making efforts into propaganda and maintaining secrecy, all trust in that authority should be forfeited. Celestia’s subjects throw their lives away to an illusory devotion, and in this story, she lets them.
That would have been a super poignant ending. Would have.
The lies we tell to children are the most important lies, because our parents were told the lies first, and their parents before them.
I'm glad to have some kind of closure on this on. Thank you.
My speculation was that Luna was preparing Twilight for the very real possibility that she couldn't be saved - that Twilight and her crew would have to kill Luna, as Celestia should have, but couldn't bring herself to do.
I like your outline better. Celestia mistook the absence of protest for the presence of justice, as the comfortable and secure always do (thank you, Reverand).
Ah, well thank you for posting this information rather than just abandoning the story. Sorry finishing it didn't work out for you, though.
(...Though, I have to say, part of my brain looked at that ending and added on:
"Wait, so what about the moon?"
"Oh, no, that we do have to move manually."
...Which, while I found it funny, also would probably pretty significantly recontextualize the story. :D)
Well then... poo.
Sad to see this isn’t going to be finish but elated to FINALY have an author leave a what would have happened.
Thanks for what was and I will mourn what could have been.
awww... wanted a full story...
Dang, that woulda been something. Thank you for laying it out.
"The sun rises". That is Truth - capital T truth.
The premise of Luna telling Twilight a truth, an irrefutable truth, and that she would be unable to deny it. That certainly was interesting. To the author I say very well done. Now that we know the truth, it is even more compelling. It is so simple (to us), but in Equestria… Celestia raises the sun - this is quite possibly the greatest story ever told and now it turns out… It was a lie.
As for the argument that Celestia delivered unto her ponies a peaceful society… I get it. I might even agree, I’m not entirely certain which side I would back if I was in Twilights horseshoes. I keep being reminded of the speech Harrison Ford gives in Air Force One where he paraphrases Martin Luther King: (https://youtu.be/kjOZokqiPaA?t=87). “Real peace is not just the absence of conflict, it’s the presence of justice”.
Thank you for sharing your ending. I liked the story, I loved the ending.
10742280
It's just you. Is Luna's way perfect? No. But ponies wouldn't be so weak and nothing but a bunch of snowflakes if the cold hard truth was known to all. Ponies could actually think for themselves, and not be mindless drones.
Celestia wanted mindless slaves and drones. To stroke her own ego more than likely. She just used unifying the tribes as her cover excuse. That she exiled her own sister to maintain a blatant lie says more about her character than anything else.
Did Celestia ever truly care? More than likely. Her connection to the Elements proves she did. But at some point, the lie became her one and only absolute truth. One she was willing to erase her sister from history and banish to maintain.
10742378 10743094
Like I said, I definitely don't want to say Celestia's in the right, and you both make good arguments as to why. But the more I think about it, the more I think Luna's not in the right either, if not more so, even.
Because consider this: if Luna was really all about just telling the truth and revealing Celestia's big lie...then why didn't she just start this all out by telling Twilight straight up what the big lie was? Why the elaborate charade spending years just to set the scene first? I mean, sure, Twilight almost certainly wouldn't have believed her at first, and most of her lessons were also to teach Twilight why not to just accept the lie for the greater good like Celestia did. But Luna also started off early enough that she had literal years to convince Twilight of the truth, and all of the insider knowledge necessary to point Twilight towards the truth, as no lie is so airtight that there aren't still clues towards the truth lying around, waiting to be noticed. So it wasn't like Luna was pressed for time or lacking in resources or anything to do it. And by convincing Twilight of the truth in advance, that meant Luna wouldn't have to basically manipulate Twilight so to ensure she'd follow her lead long enough for the big reveal in the first place, and could instead trust Twilight would side with her by default. She only stood to gain, quite likely everything, by doing all that.
But she didn't. Because ultimately, for Luna, this wasn't about revealing the big lie. This was about beating Celestia at her own game and rubbing it in in front of a large audience, making herself look like the savior of Equestria while standing over a defeated Celestia and effectively get the last word on the matter. Thus effectively making the whole affair nothing more than what it always was in canon--a petty squabble between sisters that had gotten so out of hand that the fate of a literal country was left at stake over it, something that quite likely neither of them needed to blow so out of proportion with their sibling rivalries like this in the first place.
And to be honest, I always had concerns about Luna's "brutally honest" approach to things. To be sure, her favoring the truth above all else seems like a praiseworthy stance to have, and I don't want to make it seem like honesty isn't a good policy to have, because it is. But looking back at some of the lessons we got, and there is a concerning trend of Luna not being afraid to favor the truth to a fault, even when stressing the truth would cause more harm than good, and even resort to force to drill it in too, without much of any mercy. She's actually worrying manipulative about it...at times almost machiavellian, especially if this had always been her endgame to it all. So Luna wanted to rule by truth, but I can't help but wonder just what that would look like, because I'm fairly certain her brutally honest approach wouldn't have helped unite the country then or now, even if it was the morally stronger stance overall. And when faced with that inevitable "truth," what if she decided that the "truth" then was the only way to bring peace is to force it upon the people? That would ultimately turn her into a merciless dictator arguably far worse than anything Celestia did, and part of me can't help but wonder if that was why Celestia might have banished her in the first place--so to try and avoid exactly that outcome.
In all honesty, neither of them should be ruling anything altogether in the end...which then loops back to my comment earlier on how I had been hoping that Twilight, seeing their petty squabbling for what it is, would in the end side with neither and choose some middle-ground and ultimately become the better pony than either Celestia or Luna ever could've hoped to be. But I don't feel like that's the outcome that can really come from this, because Luna's approach to it is so shady and underhanded that I seriously have to question whether Twilight would've acted as described in the planned of her own volition...or if Luna had manipulated her so much that she had effectively become Luna's pawn instead of Celestia's...and I sort of have to resent Luna for putting the whole affair in such a situation, because ultimate I question if it's really helped anything at all...even if we do agree Luna, much like Celestia, truly had good intentions behind it.
But again, that's what I think is so brilliant about the story, from start to planned ending, as I think it was always GaPJaxie's intent to leave the details such as this open to interpretation, to leave it to the reader to decide which side is truly in the right...if there ever was one. It could be there was never truly any one right answer to any of this. And probably, above all else, to show that these matters were never as simple or clear cut as we sometimes want to tell ourselves and to others--hence the title: the lies we tell our children. It is never as black and white as that...but it's less painful for us believe it is.
10743621
Here's the thing though. Even if Luna had told Twilight the real truth, Twilight wouldn't have believed it. And Luna, for all her faults in this, knew that. She also knew that she had no way to prove it either. Practical truths, as her lessons were, are one thing.
Revealing the truth behind a thousand-year-old lie is another. And it has to be shown to hundreds of ponies at the same time, not just one. Ponyville now knows the truth. Equestria will learn soon enough. And then Celestia is done for.
This is where the Mane 6 comes in, I feel. Luna chose them for a reason. She saw everything she and Celestia once stood for in the girls. They'd help Equestria not rip itself apart in their own ways.
Whether ponies would ask Luna to take over ruling, or hell, if Luna would even want her old title back, is another story. She never once came across as wanting to overthrow Celestia for the sole purpose of putting herself on the throne as Equestria's sole ruler.
She probably hasn't lost all that turned her into Nightmare Moon in canon (little sisters can be petty like that), but she'd get what she wanted for so long when the truth came out. After that is anypony's guess.
Interesting. I gotta say, I'm glad you drop the outlines of cancelled stories because it's more closure than 99% of fanfic gets.
10743655
Eh, I stand by what I said before, though. No, Twilight wouldn't have believed the truth starting out, but Luna would've had years to convince her, and since she did know the truth, she'd know what to present as proof, and to get Twilight considering it for herself over that same stretch of time. Because Luna would know what to look for to prove the lie and could nudge Twilight to start looking for that proof (if just to challenge her to try and prove Luna wrong), over that lengthy stretch of time, there's no reason why it couldn't be done in the end, especially when combined with Luna's usual lessons luring Twilight to think deeper about her world and question the littler lies she's already being told. So I still have to question why Luna didn't still try, as she still would've stood to gain from it, and given from how she went about doing all of this, with Twilight only sort of subconsciously aware of it all while awake (at least until towards the end), she stood little risk of it backfiring on her. If anything, it would've at least planted the possibility in Twilight's head that there could be a lie to uncover at all, and already be questioning whether it is true or not by the time of the big of reveal, thereby planting the seed in advance.
So again, the fact Luna didn't do it...makes me wonder if she really had all of the right intentions in the right places.
In any case, I do not think Luna ought to be made out as the "hero" any more than Celestia should be, because I can't rule out her motives were any less skewed than Celestia's were.
As for Twilight and friends, I want to believe they would rise up and do precisely as you say. But again, because Luna's lessons effectively strung them along to fulfill her goals, manipulating them to be in precisely the right place at the right time to ensure the planned big reveal can play out...makes me question if they aren't still inadvertently skewed themselves by that point, and thus aren't already "tainted" in such a way that it wouldn't at least become a stumbling against it. Which depresses me, and I suppose that's why I'm so hung up on it.
That was powerful, even in summary.
I wonder what value there is in truth. I disagree with Celestia that Equestria had peace for a thousand years. To the extent that Equestria is premised on a lie, and to the extent that the truth is eventually discovered, there are huge shifts fighting to happen, and that feels defining of a society not at peace.
Maybe Equestria has prosperity, but it feels like that prosperity was borrowed from a future that will pay for it, with interest, with everything built on the lies. Maybe that was worth the cost. Maybe not.
I really want to hear the story of how Celestia fooled an entire nation. I imagine a lot of ponies must have been complicit. Maybe "fooled" is the wrong word. I want to see how, a thousand years ago, hope ended up winning out over truth, and how Celestia became the icon of that hope.
10743753
When the populace aren't educated, it's easy to see how an Immortal being with the power and attributes of all three tribes (that already ruled the nation) with the power to lay waste to the country could convince them she was a god.
10743621
I think you answered your own question very strongly. Celestia has gaslit an entire civilization for generations in order to view her as anything but the kindest liar. On a structural level, none can go against her. Disbelief would not result in anything good happening, seeing as Celestia values lies above the life and well-being of her own family. Children are not known for their careful rationality or emotional subtlety, and they’re also highly dependent upon their guardians to provide a safe environment. Twilight would have lost all of that if she was told outright that her teacher was a false god, even if she acted out in denial she would have told Celestia about what was happening in her dreams. That would have ended all hope for Luna to ever be released too.
Luna needed to start small, and she needed to be believed. She was effectively working with an abused child, albeit one that was psychologically abused through indoctrination than over outright physical or emotional neglect/harm. The whole world is against Luna, and anyone who might take up her positions. Twilight gradually learning the truth while staying safe and maturing into someone critically minded who can grasp larger truths was always going to be better than telling her outright. No child should ever have to be put in danger that would come from the world and Celestia tossing her away, or worse. It’s not like there is no precedent for it, and Celestia is willing to lie about anything.
10742122
I'm glad this helped. I've wanted to finish this story for awhile, I loved it, I still love it, but I think at this point I need to admit my other projects are taking up too much time. I didn't want to leave you hanging.
10742126
Hooray! I'm glad you liked this one, and I promise, I actually have finished most of my stories.
And yes, the finale plot twist was intended from the start.
10742129
10742135
For each of my WIP stories, I'm trying to either finish them properly, or at least give some closure to the readers. Sadly, Lies We Tell to Children fell into the latter category, but I'm glad learning the ending felt satisfying. :)
10742142
A truth that Twilight would not be able to deny! Fitting Luna's lessons throughout the series.
As she said earlier:
10742172
Aaagh, I experience instant regret for not finishing it!
That is very flattering, and while I'm sorry I couldn't get you what you wanted, I hope this helps. And I hope I can deliver more stories like this one soon!
10742280
A key point of this story, for me, is that none of Celestia's lessons are harmful. "Be Yourself," is a great lesson to teach a child who struggles to deal with peer pressure. "Grades Matter," is a good way to incentivize them to study hard in school. "Be Charitable" is helping Twilight grow up to be a good person.
Celestia means well. She does love Twilight like a daughter, and wants to help her as best she can.
She just has absolutely no moral qualms about lying to achieve what she thinks is a greater good.
10742533
I like that so much, it is now:
static.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/b/b2/Pinkie_Pie_ready_to_fire_her_party_cannon_S2E9.png/revision/latest?cb=20111211203555
CANNON
10742989
Twilight can understand that Celestia lied about little things: Santa Hooves, Charity, Grades. Everybody lies about little things. But the scale of this deception, that the great story on which their society is founded was invented out of whole cloth, that Twilight cannot process. And depending how you interpret the ending (it was intentionally ambiguous) maybe it's something she can't forgive.
10743753
i.imgur.com/hoHBE.png
Others have already quoted in this thread: "Do not mistake the absence of protest for the presence of justice." For instance in Charity we saw that earth ponies are still looked-down upon by the unicorns of Canterlot, but the whole system is held together by Celestia. Once the lie is revealed, many of them may start to more openly resent their circumstances.
I smell a spinoff story.
10744452
Hah! :D
Well, thanks. :)
...Though, yeah, does kind of change of the story a wee bit.
"I told her that I could do that as a perfectly genuine moon goddess, but nooo, the mare with the world's biggest plot just had to have the world's literal biggest spotlight too!"
Except this isn't a comedy, so probably not with quite that tone. :D
Still does make Celestia look significantly worse, though of course there may be more to the story -- after all, as Celestia points out, she seems(?) to have done a pretty good job in power once she got it, and quite possibly she believed, rightly or wrongly, that Luna wouldn't have. And what's a thousand-year banishment to an immortal?
...Yeah, a lot of ways that could probably be expanded...
That would have been a good ending. Pity that it couldn't get finished, but I guess when too many plates are spinning some have to hit the deck.
10744445
This particular story was just so gripping to me. I'd have loved to see it next to 81 Days because it has the same great sense of tragedy that kept me coming back for more. There is such a beautifully rendered failure of the characters in here. Is there any reason why this was canceled? And would future readers be permitted to try and write the second half/spinoffs/something inspired by this as a kind of tribute?
10744563
Real life has gotten stressful. You may have noticed I'm writing a lot less than I used to in past years. I didn't know if I could commit to finishing it, and if I couldn't be sure of finishing it properly, I wanted to give the readers a sense of closure.
Are you kidding? I would be honored.
10744613
I'm glad you decided to put a final chapter on it. This was always a fun, thought-provoking story, even if I suspected it would be an experimental story with no real ending. I was fine with that and recall talking about it in a few conversations a while back. Thanks for giving us a final touch!
Oh reeeaaaaaallly? Hmmm...
10745255
mlpforums.com/uploads/post_images/sig-3906977.Rarity_happy_S4E13.png
That was good, thank you for finishing up the story! I would have enjoyed Pinkie's part based on your description, largely due to the times we live in... Thank you for writing this : )
Interesting outline. It didn't go the way I was expecting.
It seemed to me that in every chapter both Celestia's and Luna's lessons were shown to be flawed. I thought Twilight would learn from both their mistakes and end up surpassing both of them by taking the best of what each taught and discarding the worst.
I'm also of the opinion that "Honesty is always the best policy" is one of those lies we tell to children.
10747165
Dammit "honesty is the best policy" would have been a great name for the last chapter.
10744454
I mean if you parse the ending right, she's forgiven, but not forgotten. I have plenty of people I have forgiven I want nothing to do with :P
Anyways this was a thought provoking story and my main objection is both Luna and Celestia are smarter than this which is a silly headcanon thing and also not relevant to the parable-style narrative structure anyhow. Shenanigans!
11097658
Props and grateful thanks for that, not many authors return to cancelled stories and give closure to eager readers^^ I am guessing now this is an alternate universe rather than an extension/explanation to the many missing years of stories that exist when twilight was under celestia's mentorship (just scrolled back up and noticed the AU tag now, whoops).