Arguing With Myself
"Why are you even near that heathen, Applejack?" Granny Smith questioned herself quietly. Granny Smith couldn't t see Applejack turning from the lord. All she saw was a little filly saying, "Jesus, come into my heart and fill me with your presence". "Maybe she was trying to talk some sense into that heathen," Granny Smith thought aloud.
Granny Smith decided to go up to Applejack and confront her in her room. She was surprised to see Big Macintosh standing by the door, ear up to it. "Big Macintosh!" Granny screamed, "Ain't cha got work ta do?"
"I ain't got much left, Granny," Big Mac began, "It just seemed like Applejack was in a bit in distress when ya sent her friend away. I decided ta come over and console her if I could."
Granny Smith decided to listen in. "Is she even in there?"
"Eeyup."
"It don't sound like she's even stirin' in there."
"She's probably just being a bit shy about the problem. Applejack ain't necessarily an open book ya know. Just like everypony else, she even has her secrets."
"Do you think these problems have to do with her relationship with the lord?"
"Get away from the door y'all!" Applejack screeched, "I can hear ya plain as day out there! Now just get! My problems are ma own and are intended to be that way for a while! The right ta some privacy would be mighty nice!"
"Sorry, sis. I just wanted ta see what was up. It just ain't like ya ta lock yourself up like this. Even if..."
"Just get away from the gosh darn door!"
"Sorry 'bout that, sis. Didn't mean ta eavesdrop." Big Mac and Granny Smith left. Granny Smith wanted to stay behind and eavesdrop more on her granddaughter. Big Macintosh put his arm around Granny Smith and dragged her across the floor to give his sister some much deserved privacy.
"I just don't get it, Big Macintosh! I just don't!"
"Like I said, Applejack ain't just some open book ya can read all the time. She has her fair share of secrets just like me, you, Applebloom, and eveypony else in Equestria. Ya just can't do it."
"And why would ya think that? Apples don't keep secrets from other Apples. We're a close knit family who shall be open to everyone in it."
"I think that's why the Apples keep more ta themselves on certain opposin' views. It's so closely knit that some ponies want ta have their own views and do their own thing. It don't always ta be the whole family's bis."
"Everypony needs to be an open book in this family!"
"Not everypony is gonna be, though. If there is even a slight whisper of a rumor in this family, everypony hears it. It might just be some embarrassin' issue that Applejack needs ta deal with on her own. If she wants our help, she can get our help. We just need ta let her know that we offer her full support. Ya can lead a pony ta water but ya can't make 'em drink. She'll come ta us or not come at all."
"So you're just gonna wait for her ta come outta her shell?"
"Eeyup. That's only thing we can do. If she sees us pushin' the point too hard, she'll only hide more and not even trust us. If we don't show any concern, she'll think we don't care. The strategy is to be caring and supportive without forcin' it and being overbearin'."
"We just can't sit 'round and do nothin', Big Macintosh!"
"We ain't. We're showing her that we care without forcin' it outta her. It's the best approach. I should know. I've dealt with Applejack with personal problems. This is the way I gained her trust. Remember, patience is a virtue."
"Virtue my hoof! When we need ta get stuff done, we ain't got time just ta be sittin' around!"
"We ain't need ta get nothin' done, Granny!"
"Fine, Big Macintosh." Granny Smith walked back into the kitchen to start getting lunch together.
"I wonder what has gotten on ma sister's mind. She never locked herself up like this. Oh well, there's plenty of time I can use just ta wait and see. We'll all see what happens," Big Mac wondered out loud.
Applejack was lying on her bed, face in the pillows and hair a little unkempt from covering her head, sobbing silently by the overwhelming war she waged inside herself. She saw this as social suicide. She had the "Damned if I do, damned if I don't" type of situation. If she kept her mouth shut, she'd force herself into believing something she doesn't believe, or she'd be forced to live in nothing but one big fat lie. If she told everyone, it would be a social massacre. The family did have some of their opposing views such as family in Manehattan. It would rip the family apart bit by bit. It was either to seal it up as a secret and pull through with the internal argument, or tell and divide a family for a long time, possibly forever.
Applejack started to get overwhelmed by the situation at hoof. She didn't even know how any of her other friends would react. She knew the only one who would take this kindly was Rainbow Dash. Rainbow Dash wasn't even allowed back after testing the waters with her friend.
Applejack knew what she had to do. How was she going to do it though? Rainbow Dash isn't allowed back on the farm anymore. Where, or whom, would Applejack turn to?
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does anyone think that this story will ever make it to 64, 531 words or no?
i didn't read it but i hate it and fedora's are cool so you suck dude >:U
3965701 the fact is that the Christian god let that happen. He choose the free will of slavers over those being enslaved. The bible gave Him the ability and power to end that suffering, and the omnipotence to do it without destroying anyone's free will. And in the bible he didn't didn't.
3972972 If they choose to convert then it's their choice. A story can't force then to change their mind.
3952924 what's with the whole atheist and fedora stereotype?! Agnostics don't get any clothing stereotypes.
3936783 the problem is, many Christians actually haven't read the bible. For centuries the Catholic Church kept the bible Latin SO that people couldn't read it. In recent times it's more due to a general religious apathy. Though, I admit this story isn't the best representation of Christians, I've yet to read a accurate Christian portrayal of atheists. They don't go around yelling "we should kill" every Christian in forums. They don't go around lynching and banishing Christians. Before you refer to state atheism, let me remind you that Christianity has been just as misused by governments of the past.
By the way, I'm agnostic.
3937795 I am too to a point, but I understand what the author felt.
3974934 Who said it was atheists only? Wear your fedora proudly be ye atheist, agnostic, or pastafarian!
The characters are so... out of character... that at this point that I'm just reading it to see what the author comes up with next at this point.
3974984 I haven't read it yet, but to be honest I actually favor forn siðr.
3974952
If you look at fiction written from the standpoint of any given religion (for the purposes of this discussion, I include atheism as a religion) that includes a character of another religion, one of two things tends to happen:
- The person from the other religion is an average member of their religion. Because most religions don't have a strict dress code for their members (Islam's code for women is the only one I can think of), these characters don't really have anything that makes them stand out. Similarly, the average member will tend to act like any other person, so the reader will either forget or simply not notice their religion.
- The character actively stands out, in the way that people usually make their religions known. As with anyone who constantly reminds everyone else about their religion (or political views, or just about any personal detail), this quickly becomes annoying.
In the first case, most readers won't even notice that the character is of a different religion; if they do, it is quickly forgotten, because it's not important to the purposes of the story.
In the second case, even readers sharing the character's religion will usually get annoyed.
There is a rare third case, where the character is an exemplar of their religion's virtues (which will tend to be similar to the writer's religion's virtues). Christian monks are a good example of this, although I cannot think of any non-Christian stories where they are mentioned.
One last thing:
Governments will misuse anything they can. They will fight wars (which would, in almost every case, have been fought anyway) and cherry-pick bits of a religion to try to justify it. Massive invasions of privacy will be performed in the name of safety.
You get the picture. Before looking at what governments do with religion, look at how its members behave.
We have made it over 100 comments! A first ever for me!!!!
3975154 I'm not really talking about fiction anymore. The death threats aren't made up.
As I said, I didn't count state atheism or state churches, but the crusades were a continent wide church wide sponsored event.
3975243
You were talking about portrayals. If there is to be anything to discuss, these must necessarily be at least partially fiction.
As for the Crusades, it is important to realize that the position of Pope was, at that time, effectively a government position... with all the power and corruption that comes with it. If you look at why crusades were launched, you'll see a lot of politics behind it, with religion used only as an excuse.
My point is that it's usually people in power, rather than religion, that are responsible for wars.
3975295 your point has nothing to do with this story. My point was that atheists recieve death threats from Christians every day.
Also, a portrayal is partly fictitious, but being a portrayal doesn't make it invalid. I haven't read this yet, and I'm not defending it. The reason I responded is that I found your arguments to be invalid and harmful.
3975295 Religion is a constant excuse to use for war. If you have read the Bible front to back, God killed millions of innocent people.
3975428
Religion is constantly used as an excuse for war. If you look at the politics, however, it becomes abundantly clear that those wars were politically motivated, and that religion was just the excuse used.
For comparison, examine the following conversation between two imaginary British gentlemen:
"I say, old chap, it has been far too long since we last wagered on the outcome of fisticuffs with Reginald."
"Indeed, my friend. I am concerned, however, that the constabulary may fault us for bludgeoning dear Reginald for naught but coin."
"Reginald recently placed the most garish plastic flamingo on his lawn. It would benefit all concerned if it was removed. For good taste?"
"For good taste!"
So yes, while wars have been waged for and against religion, I'd say it is foolish to assume religion is the motivation for such things.
As for the "God killed millions of innocents", you must ask if they were innocent (keeping in mind that your standards of "innocent" might not be the same as God's). The Bible indicates that even one truly innocent person is enough reason for God to spare millions.
I think I've seen all that needs to be seen. You're that stereotypical fedora-wearing atheist that no one, even other atheists, want to believe exists. I'll just be on my merry way.
Keep on writing this story, I love it
3975154
In the beginning of this little comment, you state that a large quantity of any religion is fictional. I am also choosing to believe that you support Christianity and the weekly teachings of Sunday mass. However, stating that religions are heavily based upon fictional stories and events, you are, in essence, saying that a large amount of the Christian religion is fictional. I'm not sure about you, but I don't want to place my trust in some monster in the sky who's base moral is "Love Me or Die".
P.S. While everyone else goes into a stylistic barn and sings out of a severely outdated book on Sunday, I get to burn small particles of combustible fluid so I can ride dirt bikes for hours on end.
Better get used to oranges, orange pone. That's all you'll be eatin for a long time.
3975829 i luv fedoras
I thank you all for all the faves and likes. It definitely gives me a bit more boost to my step and look passed the negativity. Thanks to those people. Thank you all
3979289 Please do not misinterpret me. I made no comment on whether any given religion is fictional in whole or part.
Rather, I made a comment about certain types of characters as they appear in fictional works written from the standpoint of a given religion. To put it more simply, because you appear to be somehow construing this as a comment on the accuracy of religion, I'm talking about how the output of modern writers is affected by the writer's religion. I specified fiction because if the author merely records actions, they only leave their mark in the form of context; if the author writes fiction, then characters are also affected.
3974926
Except that conversion means someone talked them into it.
At least in the context of this situation.
Let people choose for themselves. No bullshit excuses. No false scriptures assholes make up to make Christians seem like monsters. No over dramatized stories of "Christian oppression to Atheists". Just given the choice to believe in God or not.
I'm just tired of the bullshit.
I'm tired of anti-religious pricks that can't keep their fucking mouth shut about how God is a psychotic monster that wipes out entire populations to get his rocks off. I'm tired of the psychotic Christians being the standard that we are held up to. For fuck's sake! Aren't bronies supposed to believe in love and tolerance? Why does the simple idea of being rewarded for being a moral human being and being punished for horrid atrocities have to be so despised? Yeah, religion isn't perfect. But NOTHING is. How many people have been butchered over politics? Greed? Power? Lust? Pure fun? Shitty people do shitty things. Welcome to planet Earth. And guess what? It ain't black and white.
Dude, in all seriousness, I need to down vote this. Not for grammar. Not even for the blatant OOC-ness. No, I'm doing it because this is literally the definition of propaganda.
Make party you wish to destroy seem inferior to party you support?: Check
Evangelize party you support as intellectually superior in every aspect?: Check
Demonize other party while not showing any positives they have?: Check
Have the character you use be "saved" from other party by the 'good' one? Check
Congratulations! You're an arrogant and ignorant piece of shit.
Seriously, dude. The story is really offensive and mind-numbingly stupid. And it's not even that loss of faith stories are bad, they can be really good! It's just that the good ones knew to not make religion seem like it was still in the fucking Dark Ages. Oh! And you wanna know something interesting? You can believe in a god and be allowed to read and even not go to church if you don't want to! I KNOW! FUCKING NUTS, RIGHT!?
GOD FUCKING DAMN IT!
I thought we were better than.... this! I mean, remember how everyone thinks bronies are autistic retards in their mid-30s that do nothing but jack off to their My Little Pony dolls in their parents' basements all day? Stereotypes and propaganda lead to nothing but ignorance and violence.
3989433 A informed choice requires being informed. On the other hand, you don't have to read things like this. If you don't want to be told about it, don't read about it. ((even this... exagerated version of events))
By the way, that is called Apatheism, being apathetic about theism.
3989634
Yeah, except that people make up shit to convince them to join their side. Like in this story, where Applejack explains that if she reads for herself, then she'll go to hell. No one in their right mind believes that. Quite frankly, this story shouldn't convert anyone to anything. It is moronic beyond belief and hurts every faith involved here. It carries itself on stereotypes and non-understanding of the side it is bashing, painting them as scared sheep that follow any order given by the priest. I feel bad for actual Atheists too. I know a few that are some of the nicest people you can meet. But instead people see how pretentious hipsters are the majority of Atheists because they want to brag to people on the internet about how they don't go to church.
Love and tolerance, man. It is a philosophy that should be held by everyone. That and pacifism. We don't need violence.
In the words of Trigun, "LOVE AND PEACE!"
img1.ak.crunchyroll.com/i/spire2/9a265f8efef6b5cc17f58a0f37d522f31302498376_full.gif
3990491 actually... that was common christian practice for centuries. It was a practice the church used to control information and to prevent independent interpretation of scripture. They did it up until Lutherans came about and the reformation. Also, most people who convert to atheism state that they were taught to fear god. Christians often refer to themselves as "a god fearing people." Being fearful of god is a common theme in churches, especially in the more conservative ones.
3990491 just go to any facebook post about homosexuals or atheists. Christians go up there and post death threats, they antagonize and bully atheists down here in the south. I once heard a guy say, "evolution is a monkey having butt sex with a squirrel." He wasn't even a retard, he got decent grades (in all but biology). Don't even get me started about creationists. I can see the possibility of guided evolution (even if it completely conflicts with the idea of a all knowing AND all powerful god who would have known the end result and could have made it.) Creationists are just scary ignorant.
3991330
I never said it was exclusive for anyone. The Indulgences are a clear point you can use for that. I'm just saying that people have the right to choose for themselves and it shouldn't be taken away.
3991349 again, if you don't know what each is how would you choose? If you don't want the choice, then don't read.
3991346
That evolution thing was from South Park.
Also, yeah, people are rude sometimes. But i highly doubt that the death threat thing is actually meant to be serious. Remember, this is the internet. All I'm saying is that if you act like a dick to people and act like the smartest guy in the room, people won't like you. Tolerance and kindness.
3991374
Because getting the wrong information won't help you. You need a focused and balanced list of pros and cons, not a demonization of one side. That makes no sense! You need facts to carry your opinion.
3991406 Sorry, thought you meant read nothing. I agree with you that this isn't the right thing to read.
3991585
Hell no! I love reading!
3992445 imeant this specific story.
3992675
Yeah, this isn't the right thing to read if you want to see a good loss of faith story.
Also, the fedora part made me blindingly angry to the point that I was forced to invade worlds on Dark Souls and slaughter everything in my path. Even the mushroom children.
I fucking hate that hat.
3992692 I
fedoras!
3992741
Let's agree to disagree about that
disgustingly overrated fishinghat.TOP HATS FOR LIFE!
theblogofchoice.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/58121-300x300.jpg
3992776 elitist prick
3993698
Filthy peasant.
We're just the best of friends, aren't we!
3993705 Vikingr Helmets!
3997738
HELL YEAH!
3997771 there is always common ground!
3997788
Now let's go pillage women and rape villages!
3997831
this?
4055572
Jeez, I have not seen that show in awhile.
Title gave me a giggle. That's at most what I got out of this.
Is it a sin to masturbate?
REALLY!?
Well fuck that, where's my lotion?
I try but fail to always leave a comment with every upvote, but always leave a comment with every downvote:
I had to downvote this story. I see what you try to do, but you did not have to introduce Christianity:
Canonically, we have no positive evidence for religion among the ponies.* In our stories, we can have the ponies worship the Alicorn-Princesses as goddesses and believe that they created Equus, the rest of the universe and perserve minds after brains stop working in an utopian afterlife. We can have a skeptical pony notice that the Alicorn-Princesses do not have infinite power, were not always with us (Hearths’ Warming has no references to Alicorn-Princesses at the time and the Unicorns regulated the day/night-cycle at the time), and may very well all been born as regular ponies like Princess Twilight Sparkle instead of being primordial. Such a skeptical pony could question the pony-religion.
Not only is the introduction of Christianity unnecessary, but you begged the question of Christianity already existing on Equus. This begging the question raises the question of how Christianity got to Equus.
* We do have Tartarus, but it is a physical prison —— ¡not a place whither souls go after death!
3932202
+
3932904
they are not smart because they believe