Princess Celestia has been the sole ruler of Equestria for more than a thousand years. Over those years, she gradually drifted apart from those ponies over whom she watched tirelessly. But now that Princess Luna has returned, and has begun to share the burdens of rule that Celestia has had to carry alone for so long, she is forced to come to grips with the isolation and loneliness that she has brought upon herself. Having kept herself distant from her subjects for so long, she turns to the pony whose friendly nature has already helped to save Equestria on multiple occasions for help and comfort.
Chapters (7)
looking good, but try to make the chapter longer, also change the description its too plane and short
2242079
Believe it or not, I didn't actually expect this to get any viewers yet... I finished what was basically meant as a prologue, and wrote a basic description because I wanted to submit it for approval before going to bed. My intent was to get up in 7 hours and write a longer full description, but it appears that by submitting it to groups, I managed to basically cut out the approval process... Whoops.
First: *squee* Finaly a new Twilestia Story without Clop
(Not that I don't like it but Clop kills mostly the Romance for me)
Second: Interesting Start, I hope to Read more of it soon, will the New Chapters be Longer or will they stay that way?
Another budding Twilestia story.
Please do continue, this story's got a good start.
Who has two thumbs and read your blog post? Not this guy, because I only have one thumb. Long story.
Anyway, here's some very minor nit-picky stuff:
- Do you think 'school for gifted unicorns' would be capitalized? It sounds like the actual name for the place. Not sure though.
- "... or meeting concluded early," -- plural.
- "she would knock on the door, Twilight would say that it she could enter..." -- that line was confusing.
- "This was both a blessing and a curse from Celestia's perspective." -- we're in Celestia's perspective, so you could simply omit that thought tag.
- "Careful not to let her eagerness show, her subjects...," -- the 'her subjects' reads like a parenthetical digression, so the em dash would work great here.
- "Satisfied that the Equestria would indeed survive..."
- “Of course, your Highness,” she said respectfully. “Will that be all?” -- I'm reading it as a quick spoken line, so maybe a comma after respectfully. By the way, you don't even need respectfully there. The line itself (and the preceding context of being a serving pony and all) is sufficient to infer that she's being kind, courteous, and respectful.
Now for some general impressions:
- I like your style, I really do. It's sophisticated. It's polished. It's exactly what you'd expect out of Celestia's perspective. Deep, complex thoughts with an easy flow. That's her, isn't it?
- With that said I'm not exactly sure how to judge the internal monologue, not without the context of another chapter or two. If we stay firmly within this stream of consciousness--this deep penetration of Celestia's perspective--I believe it will become too much.
I doubt that's where you're headed though. Maybe we have a POV change coming up; maybe we switch to a lighter penetration of Celestia's perspective. Either way, I feel, as a reader, that I'm being set up for a strong scene.
I hope this was decent. Constructive criticism is both rare and difficult to give, and I'm not much a writer to begin to with.
That, and there wasn't much to point out. This is a solid start.
Good start... a few errors here and there but nothing major. Very readable and it seems enjoyable so far.
Continue as you have began and I think you have a fine story here.
I felt that this chapter was a little removed from the main conflict, which you described as Celestia coming to terms with her isolation through Twilight. I could be wrong.
Upvote to agree, downvote to disagree.
2242713
Among my readers, I rank you first(sorry everyone else), for I found your criticisms to be extremely constructive, both grammatically and emotionally. If it weren't for readers like you, I might come to the completely erroneous conclusion that my writing is perfect, and I would hate for that to happen. I believe that I have addressed each of your points, except possibly for the third, where I replaced the pronouns with the characters' names. Thank you for your considerate post, and I'm sorry about your thumb.
2242868
Allow me to be the first to agree with your assessment(in fact, I was). It is my intent to re-rewrite the description to better reflect the actual plot of the story. The current description was a hastily improvised replacement for the incredibly lackluster description I wrote at 10:00 P.M. before intending to go to bed. I was amazed, however, by the speed with which people started to view this, so I felt the need to do something about the description. I'm sorry that it doesn't quite match expectations, but I do hope to rectify that.
2242777
Thank you, and please, don't hesitate to either comment on, or message me about, any errors(I feel like there should be a comma here) on my account. Few things please me more than to discover ways in which to improve my work.
2242489
First off, thanks for commenting. Secondly, I don't think that I could write clop if my life depended on it, which I desperately hope it never will. Finally, it really depends on what you mean by longer. The chapters I've written in my other stories tend to run between 2.5-3.5 thousand words, but the real determinant is where I want to transition between perspectives. I might consider combining multiple POV's into single chapters, but I can't say for certain right now.
I think Celestia should've visited Twilight in Ponyville.
Checklists ... sweet sweet checklists ...
I wonder if Twilight corrupted Celestia or did Celestia corrupt Twilight? ...
2242713"This was both a blessing and a curse from Celestia's perspective" shows that it is Celestia's opinion and Celestia's opinion only. Using a pronoun instead of a name would be ideal, but the sentence should be kept.
As for decent, you're a fantastic critic. The nitpicks in particular help make the story flow better, and some of them I would've missed. Then again I'm off-job right now
2247295
You're right; you're both right. A 'her' would fit in perfectly.
Thanks everyone for your comments. I hope to have the next chapter up today, or perhaps tomorrow, but it shouldn't be too long in any case.
2247385 and 2247295
I see what you both mean. If I use her name, it sounds like I am switching to a third-person omniscient narrative because, by being so precise in identifying whose perspective was being discussed, it made it sound like the narrator and Celestia were different entities. I guess what I am trying to say is that, by pointing out whose perspective was being described, it allowed for the possibility that it was someone's other than Celestia's, which doesn't make sense in this narrative mode.
P.S. It's back, but this time, with pronouns.
2248621
I'm glad to hear it. I think that for at least the next chapter, I'm going to be sticking with Celestia for a rather simple reason. I have far more flexibility in writing Celestia because she is the character about whose thoughts less is known. Twilight's thoughts are, at times, completely beyond comprehension,(i.e. Lesson Zero)so rather than trying to switch to Twilight's perspective right now and risk complaints of being OOC, I will take the simpler, and hopefully safer, route of following Celestia. Unfortunately, I do believe that Twilight deserves to have some light cast into the dark recesses of that convoluted, yet adorkable, mind of hers. Celestia may be the main POV character, but expect at least some Twilight-centric chapters as well.
2246802
IMHO, I believe that Celestia 'corrupted' Twilight, in that Celestia tries to keep a relatively organized schedule and prefers to have a list of things she is looking for before she goes looking for them. However, I also believe that it is impossible for anypony to live up to the incredibly high standard set by Twilight Sparkle when it comes to lists. So while Celestia's list might include such entries as 'snacks, books, and blankets(or something)' Twilight's list will have the types of foods, the exact quantities by recommended serving size and nutritional content, the books listed in alphabetical order by category, and the blankets(for example)by the ply count, material, color, and weight. Twilight takes what is reasonable to an unreasonable level.
2244927
I considered doing that, but the same problem arises as with the School for Gifted Unicorns. The unanticipated arrival of royalty tends to be a big deal, so I didn't think that she would want to simply drop in unannounced, but to organize an official reception would take too long. She just wants some time with her student without the fanfare and frippery.
2249375 if you need help writing from the perspective of an obsessive-compulsive, I assure you I can be of great assistance.
I think that was one of the first times I've seen Celestia being called manipulative but not in a negative sense, good job. Great chapter
yay first comment :3
woot updates, i really like how your portraying twilight alwasys needing to please the princess, and the inner thoughts on celestia feeling guilty she has caused this to happen. twilight needs to to realize even an immortal alicorn is still a pony underneath her crown. I'd like to see celestia being more playful and open with twilight, and Twilight confused on why she is acting like this and understanding this is her without royalty.
2254889
Thanks. If there isn't a term for thinking that Celestia isn't that bad, then there should be, and I would like to propose the term Celestiapologist. (I would use the Celestia emoticon if it weren't labeled trollestia!)
2254912
(grrr!) ' joke, but I also think it has to be gradual. I don't think that people, or ponies, can completely abandon lifelong impressions of others overnight, much less over a single conversation.
That is kind of where I am headed. I tried to show a bit of that at the end with the whole, '2 dozen + 2 dozen =
2254951
There is, it's called a fan. Celestiapologist makes it sound like that she has done something bad and we are trying to excuse her actions, like Lunapologist in regards to Nightmare Moon. Give me a few more chapter and I might add this to my Protect Celestia group, so far you've done a good job on her characterizations.
I like the story overall but rather than Celestia being the one at fault, I feel that you've neutered Twilight's character. Making her more scared and prone to bouts of apology and the like, rather than being able to think for herself.
(She is, and will do those things, don't get me wrong. But it won't quite get that far.)
Looking forward to the next chapter.
2255228
Alrighty then, this oughta be fun. I understand what you are saying, I think, but because I need to address both possible interpretations of your statement(I'll get to that in a moment)it might not seem like I understand at first(Or even at the end).
The first possible interpretation I see is that you are worried, concerned, or simply pointing out, that from what we have seen of Twilight so far, she does not match the show's portrayal of her normal behavior. I will agree with this 100% since that what I am trying to show. Twilight is not almost incapable of behaving normally around Princess Celestia, or even when Celestia is concerned. I even have Celestia notice this near the end where she observes that, "Now that she was calmer, it seemed that her more reasonable side was starting to assert itself." (I suppose that this could be read as Celestia's calm, reasonable side was showing through) So my response to that first interpretation of your post is that this is by no means meant to represent Twilight's normal behavior.
The second interpretation that I could see is that you did indeed mean that my portrayal of Twilight in those special circumstances where Celestia is involved is out of character. If this is the case, then all I can do is refer you to the things that made me think this isn't too unusual. As 'research' I watched a few of the episodes where Twilight and Celestia did have interactions, and in almost every case, they started the same way. They all begin with Twilight acting extremely nervous about anything going wrong, and she is usually apologizing for something. The clearest examples are Lesson Zero, which demonstrates just how important Celestia's approval is to Twilight, and the Crystal Empire, which had two scenes that I found helpful. The first scene is near the beginning where she drops all her materials and one of the scrolls rolls down the carpet, and she starts apologizing and trying to roll it up after apologizing profusely for not knowing about the crystal empire, and the other is where we learn that her literal worst nightmare is failing a test and disappointing Celestia, which she fears will result in her being dropped as her student.
Sorry about the length, but I do agree that having one of the principal characters acting too out of character from this early on would be jarring. I hope this at least explains my reasoning.
2255406
I suspect we look at the same things in slightly different ways. While I very much agree that their interaction usually starts like that (I don't count Lesson Zero as that entire episode was character murder for the sake of a story, much like Spike at your service) Your way of showing it is a little (just a little) over the top.
That said, if you don't take it any further it doesn't really matter all too much.
Must say, I loved this chapter. It does an amazing job of showing how Celestia really COULD benefit from reading Twilight's reports, given how isolated she is likely to be.
Huh... you know what I've never thought about the letter and tickets like that before, I don't think I've seen anyone use the idea that somepony else sent out the letter and tickets.
The last part... more complexity to the character, you are doing good.
Very nice approach on the tickets.
I like how Twi doesn't back down from Celestia.
This is a very nice Twilight you're writing here. Still very analytical and a bit geekish, but when she thinks she's right and gets on a roll, she doesn't back down from anything. And very neat how she gets to the heart of the problem with Celestia and Luna's relationship.
Way to go, Twi!!
Awesome chapter is awesome, keep it up.
yay more updates, xD. like the read, twilight showin celly what steps she should take to approach the issues luna and her have. I can imagine next chapter having an irate/angry luna demanding to know why court was full of nobodies. and taking celly and twilight to calm her down. one thing, after speaking to celly the way twilight did, you'd think she'd freak out, thinking celly gona remove her as a student or banish her, course after a sec, celestia would be saddened to think twilight would think that, reassure he she's right, then end with the nuzzleing.
Ahhhhh, it's been far too long since I read a good Twilestia fic. Thank you for this
Only thing that bothers me is you don't put question marks at the end of the majority of questions.
Edit: Sweet, I was the 100th thumbs-up
I have two thumbs! Why can't I donate both to this story?
I was kind of expecting Luna's reply to be like that, and I understand her reasoning. Good job with this
Great Read! I await your next chapter.
^What he said!
...That's a nice take on Twilestia, quite original so far. And I just want to know how the Sisters are going to react to Ponyville's insane antics xD
I wish Luna would have been a litte upset about the situation, it would have added a little drama - if you will - to the chapter.
Not that Luna would be upset because of Celestia's decision to send her to weekend court ie. less power -as she too would believe that to be the best course of action -. But the fact that she did not inform her of this beforehand.
yay awsome posting so quick, really hope you can keep it up , :/ alota stories i really like end up being cut short due to author losing interest, like everyone in chapter, thx for the read
2267170 I actually enjoyed that Luna didn't got upset because to be honest it kind of tiring that the fandom always depict Luna as a sad, uneasy character when the show itself has shown her as anything but. That she didn't got angry was also a plus because it makes sense that Luna knows how the court works (seeing as she has been in the castle for a wile now)She also knows that she still needs time to adjust and most likely thought about the issues that might occur if she were to do something she is not ready for.
2267170 and 2267954
Both of you make good points, and I prefer to remain neutral on the subject for the sake of the story, but there is something that I feel I should point out. The story is being told from Celestia's perspective, so you are only being told what Celestia perceives. Just because Celestia doesn't think that Luna is upset doesn't mean she is right. This is not me endorsing either position, but merely a friendly reminder, so please don't read too much into it.
New chapters! Y u so short!?
I have a lot of problems with this chapter, starting with Twilight.
At the beginning she's overwhelmed by the amount of food on the table (even though something like that would have happened multiple times during her time as Celestia's student (royal ball, etc etc)
Then she asks if she can ask a question and Celestia responds not in a teacherlike fashion (You know you never have to ask if you want to ask a question) but rather it's fine for just 2 days.
And then at the end, where all traces of nervousness have suddenly vanished and she's actually arguing with the princess (while still making the mistake of calling her princess etc etc) note: arguing is not a bad thing per se, it just comes out of nowhere.
Next is Celestia who, despite thousands upon thousands of years of experience, is stunned by the revelation of what the friendship report entailed, doesn't remember personally sending a scroll and two tickets to Twilight, refers to her sister as a... stranger (which I can sort of see, but feels very odd) and around the halfway point of the story suddenly worries more about Luna than about Twilight (which was the focus of the last chapter)
Lastly, there are a few redundant sentences and you shouldn't ever use numbers in your writing (write them out)
All in all, a mediocre chapter, a pity, since I feel you can do a lot better.
2270256
Excellent post. I will try to address your concerns in order:
The first thing is the amount of food, and Twilight's response to it. I will admit that I was generally vague about the dimensions of the room, the size of the table, etc., but I was hoping to convey a sense of something like a conference room, with a table large enough to accommodate, I think I said a a dozen ponies. This entire table is covered with food, which while I'm sure that Twilight has seen such large quantities of food before at events such as you mentioned, but never for only two ponies. That was what I was hoping to express, and Celestia actually says exactly what you did, about how it didn't seem like Twilight had eaten at the castle before. The point was that Celestia had far more food prepared than two ponies could hope to eat.
Your second point is somewhat confusing(or at least I find it so) so I apologize in advance if this isn't what you meant. The first reason why Twilight asks permission was because of the nature of the question. I think you are saying that any teacher wants their students to ask if they have any questions, and I agree that this would occur to Celestia. However, that principle usually only applies to academic questions. For instance, a calculus student wouldn't need permission to ask about the definition of an integral, but it would be considered rude to ask that same teacher whether or not they were married. This is because it is a more personal question, and might have been prefaced by the explicit request, 'may I ask you a personal question?' Twilight's question was one of personal motives, not purely academic, and it also had the potential to be interpreted as criticism, so by asking, she offered Celestia the opportunity to indicate that she did not wish to discuss the matter. Celestia's response was, therefore, meant in this context, where she was giving Twilight permission to ask more personal questions without seeking explicit permission first.
Thirdly, your point about Twilight's standing up to Celestia is well taken. The thing that I wish to remind you of is that all the characterizations of the relationship between Celestia and Twilight that I have given so far, have come from Celestia's perspective. I believe the phrase unreliable narrator applies in this case. I have shared what Celestia's expectations are, but that does not mean that they will correspond with the reality. I am writing this after having already posted the next chapter, *spoiler* in which Celestia is forced to re-evaluate their relationship because such a forceful and confident response did not comport with her expectations. *end spoiler* This explains why, in story, this could be considered justified, since we don't know why Twilight responded the way she did, but from the show, we know that Twilight is willing to go through a lot to protect and help her friends, among who she numbers Luna after Nightmare Night. I, personally, wouldn't be surprised if the Twilight from the show were willing to tell Celestia that she was being too harsh on one of her friends, if the situation had ever arisen, but that is just my interpretation. Oh, and the using Princess thing, well maybe this is just me, but when disputing something, using their title helps to keep it less personal. It seems to indicate that you may disagree with what they say, but you still respect them and their position.
Okay, for point four, I can only ask whether or not you believe that the kinds of events that appear to occur with startling regularity in Ponyville can be used to determine what life is like elsewhere in Equestria. Maybe I am the one who is mistaken, in that Ponyville really is representative of the rest of Equestria, but I can't imagine how any other town would survive without the element bearers there to fix the problems. As to the tickets, I was looking for a video from the television series, The West Wing in which the President is asked to sign Christmas cards for his major donors, several thousand of them, and he doesn't have time to read each and every one of them. The cards are form written, and the only thing that is genuinely unique is the signature, which the President signed by hand. The same thing is going on here, or so I imagined. I doubt that Princess Celestia would start a letter to Twilight, "Hear ye, hear ye. Her Grand Royal Highness, Princess Celestia of Equestria, is pleased to announce..." so it seemed more likely that the letter was not written by Celestia herself. My theory was that, while affixing her signature, and nothing else, to every single invitation that would be sent to hundreds, if not more than a thousand, ponies, she happened to notice the name of her faithful student and sent that one on her own. I just find it difficult to believe that Celestia, who must be busy, has time enough to read every single invitation, much less write them all herself. She saw her student's invitation and sent it, or at least that seemed most likely to me. The final part being the strange transition to Luna. Since this is supposed to representing the train of Celestia's thoughts in some way, when Twilight proposed taking a break, Celestia thought about how her sister was doing. I tried to indicate that she thought about this because it was around 6:30 and she was usually finished with audiences by then. The point was that while Twilight was distracted, Celestia's mind wanders to other things, and Twilight notices when Celestia gets all quiet and distracted looking.
As to the redundant sentences, I am more than willing to take a second look through, but later, after I have finished today's chapter, ideally. And last but not least, the writing out numbers, I was always taught to write out 1-9 and wikipedia agrees.
I am sorry that you found this chapter lacking, and I hope that, thanks to comments such as this, I will be able to improve. I also hope that my explanations clarify, if not justify, my decisions. Thanks again for your, clearly thought provoking, post, and I'm sorry for the wall-of-text response.
2270414
To continue this line of conversation in no particular order:
I understand what you mean, however... Twilight has been Celestia's student since the age of? six? eight? and seeing as she is eighteen or thereabouts in the show, that means that she has spent a decade around Celestia.
How many eight years olds do you know, who know the difference between a personal and an academic question? or will bother to ask if they can ask?
My point with this is: I don't think Twilight would feel like it's an inappropriate question because Celestia always answered those questions plainly.
Protect and help her friends? definitely!
Standing up to the princess? not as likely but very much possible.
But even with Celestia as an unreliable narrator, Twilight would be either skittish throughout or apologize after the fact.
And you would have a point with the titles and whatnot, were it not for the fact that Celestia specifically asked her not to use it. (Thinking about it though, I can see where you're coming from to a degree)
I know what you meant, however things like that (mountains of food for a few ponies) aren't (or at least shouldn't be) uncommon around royalty.
It's basically a staple of living as a monarch, extravagant breakfast, even if you can never eat it all.
Why?
Status, and what ponies think when you only want a simple breakfast and some coffee. (it's hard being a princess)
To answer the question: no, I do not believe that events in ponyville represent the whole of Equestria. But that wasn't the point I was trying to make.
My point was this: Celestia is a few Milenia old.
Was she surprised? sure, but she wouldn't be shocked to stupification by something as (for her) mundane as that.
The tickets. While your analogy to real life is interesting, and most certainly valid for our world, Twilight isn't just another pony to Celestia (even apart from being a three time (inter)national hero)
She practically raised the unicorn. And while I very much love the idea of Celestia making it a test for Twilight, which could very easily have been the case.
Simple neglect isn't quite so obvious or likely.
Lastly, the time: 6:30.
My reason for talking about writing out numbers (even if wikipedia disagrees) is not just because it's ugly and breaks the flow of your narrative (though it does that aswell)
But mostly this: when you force yourself to write them out, you also force yourself to think about how to work it into the narrative, rather than just plonking it down and basically saying: "Here, this is the time she stops doing things."
Celestia is the narrator, attuned to the sun itself, does she use clocks ? or is it more likely that she'd say: "Done close to sunset/sundown" ?
More food for thought.
2259052>>2255514 I consider Lesson Zero to be latent stress from the massive psychological strain Discord put on Twilight in order to break her releasing itself in the form of her OCD. Note that she is more obsessive than ever after Discord (in fact all of her major breakdowns are post season opener), not less, and she actually yells at Celestia for even bringing Discord's statue back to Ponyville in Season Three.
Something about this story seems slightly off. It's tempting to poke holes at the logic of the story, but I don't think that's the actual problem. I think something is bugging me about the style in which it is written. I'll reread it and try to see if I can figure out what it is.
Notwithstanding that, I'm enjoying the story and looking forward to more.
I love Celestia Chapters! Looking forward to reading more of your story!
While it is not how I view Equestriani society you did pretty well on that. I do think that she would worry about her impact.
I'm sorry, this is where I bow out.
You're rushing your chapters and it shows.
This one is nothing more than an exposition dump and is not very interesting to read.
Good luck with the rest of the story, though I wish you'd go back and take your time to make it a seamless one (all of this could be sprinkled into the previous chapters)
I like Celestia chapters.
But i agree with "faithfulstudent" about the Chapter size, they are a little too short for such a Topic and it feels a little bit rushed maybe 1-2k more words at Topics like this would be good, but that’s just a suggestion.
And Karrakaz, Yes he could have sprinkled this in his other chapters like most Authors do, but i think with an extra chapter about this Topic he goes best to show us how he sees Equstrias Society and his View of Celestias Position in it and her Problems with it. For me the story gets more depth with it as if i have to search for it. But that’s my personal view on it.
And Concordian doesn’t be sorry for "another" Celestia Chapter we will see Twillight PoV when you feel that the time is right for it. And to get a good background for Celestia makes a Story even more interesting for me.
I don't understand why Karrakaz is catching downvotes here. He makes a good point--one that I think the author will be more than happy to entertain.
Concordian, you're a sound writer and storyteller. You've responded to critique not only in these comments but within the writing itself. I think your care and efforts are evident in the first chapter, as well as in the edits you've made in the others.
I can't judge your writing process; I don't know what works best for you. What I can judge is the product--as a reader--and I find myself agreeing with some of these sentiments. It's difficult to be this deep in the perspective for too long. It's exposition, and quite a bit of it.
There are other ways we can be inside Celestia's head without having to be told. She can initiate action. She can react to other characters' actions. We can see her through dialogue. Maybe body language, even the way she dresses or appears (going from formal to informal in a private situation). I think you've used all these tools, but you seem to rely on one--thought.
Like I said before, you handle her well--it's never been a problem with how you write her thoughts--but using them too much can lead to some drag.
I can't say if any of this is the result of rushing, but if it is, you're shorting yourself, your story, and your readers.
And you're far better than that.
Edit: Hope this didn't come out wrong. Believe that my intentions are good.
need an excuse for twilight to come to the gardens... not sure how but for twilight to see celestia in such a vulnerable state might show she's just like anypony else.
I'm really enjoying this story and think you do a good job of characterizing Celestia. I like how you have Celestia reacting to Twilight's recounting of the story behind the first friendship report. This might be the first story I read that doesn't assume that Twilight sent a larger report that detailed the events behind the lesson she learned. In fact I would be interested in seeing you doing a side story or something that is just Twilight going over the events behind each friendship report with Celestia and potentially Luna.
i loved this chapter
I cant wait to see more