Sozmioi
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This story is... kinda weird.
Not bad by any means, but weird.
9634663
It gets weirder!
A couple spots where you forgot to split paragraphs for dialogue, but interesting concept.
And I'm side-eyeing Shiny now....
9634906
I sometimes infix a very brief response with dashes, like
> "Like, in general, or are you asking?" - "Ummm." - "I guess that means both. Well, then…"
Does that not work for you?
9635016
Well, it doesn't work for me at least, since it's incorrect grammar.
9635058
In general, you can interrupt a quote with other text using dashes between the two sections of quote. In particular, I've seen this specific usage in professionally edited fiction.
9635128
I've only seen it used when you are interrupting mid-sentence, and generally when that sentence is continued as if it wasn't interrupted. Not after a complete sentence, getting a response from that sentence, and continuing.
A more proper context to use it would be something like:
"Oh Rainbow, would you-" "NO!" "like to go to-" "Never!" "the spa with me?"
The way you did it, it stands to reason that you can have an entire conversation in one paragraph.
"Would you like to go to the spa?" - "No." - "Why not?" - "I hate it." - "Don't be like that, you'll love it!" - "Do you even know me?" - "I know you'll love it."
9635016
I figured that was probably intentional, but it *is* generally incorrect, and can be confusing if somebody doesn't know about that particular quirk of yours, so I'd recommend against it.
9635192
Those would not be brief, as I said. If one side was dong 1-2 word answers to extended questions, that conversation would actually seem pretty reasonable to me. That seems less distracting to me than stretching things out with multiple single word paragraphs. Like, when Spike said "I'm not" it was merely confirming an assertion in Starlight Glimmer's paragraph. IMO, it would have broken up the flow of thought more.
Well, it's happened twice in this chapter and 0 times in the previous so if you really find it so distracting I may as well conform to your prescriptivism. Shakes hoof in air faux-defiantly.
I beefed up the very brief one, making the implication a little more explicit.
9635245
I decided to look it up for kicks and giggles, and it seems we are both wrong. Every guide I googled has the different characters' dialogue be in separate paragraphs regardless to how it is interrupted or how short the interruption is, as apparently different paragraphs for different characters is a rigid rule that shouldn't ever be broken.
Heh heh,"dong".
that is one REALLY weird curse..... if it can even be called that.
Fluttershy and Rarity's fantasies sound like they would make pretty fun stories of their own, I must say.
I hope they tell Thunderlane that Rumble was being influenced by an external force. I wonder if this affliction effected Flurry's parents as well. That could be fun. This story is weird and fun in all the right ways, please continue.
9648348
Thanks!
It'd be really nice to know what the downvoters' problems are - if it's something I can actually address, or if they object to the content (seeming attempts to morally justify some sketchy behavior), or in the opposite direction if I'm taking too long to get down to rutting, or they don't believe I have a sensible explanation for all this, or what.
Unfortunately, I've just run through my buffer, so daily updates may be off for now. I do know where to go from here, but it might take me more than 34 real hours to turn that into a chapter. After this I go back to a bit of buffered writing, but by the end of the week I'll probably have run through that.
Wouldn't a second model without the sexual aspect would be easy to create?
Might hurt their sales of the non-sexual version, but I would think that they could come up with something.
Pretending to have had a falling out, but secretly sharing profits seems like something they would think of. Flim sells the one with the masturbation option, and Flam the "foal safe" version. Twilight might see that as "a step in the right direction" since it wouldn't harm their customers in a real way. At least not much. Could allow them to keep prices high while seeming to have competition to lower them.
If you wanted them to get caught you could have them share the machine shop. Someone finds out. Sorta like how a lot of "store brand" products are made in the same factories as name brand stuff I think?
This is a typo?
Seems like you got the complicated part backwards. She could handle something simple or quick while writing. Right?
So she has someone she lost herself?
-I actually approve! No need to get other's involved with a marriage ceremony under those circumstances.
So the cure is to have a very special someone? Or otherwise be moving towards healthy sex*? Or just towards sex in general? Either way, I don't know why that would make Shining and Cadance uncomfortable. I wonder if they were trying to get samples for an experiment to see if some magic they sensed from Flurry was what they thought it was?
*By which I mean in marriage.
It would be more interesting than Twilight turning out to be correct at the end of the chapter.
9651186
Of course they can, it's fully modular. They already planned for that.
9648554
I may have said this before, but my only real objection to this is that it has same-sex relationships being culturally acceptable. I like my Ponyfic to set a higher standard than that. Ponies are supposed to be moral examples. In another setting I'd overlook such things, at least as background elements.
9651213
First - no, look at the event he just said it was.
Second - oops. Wrong word.
Third - she alluded to him in chapter 2.
Fourth - welllll, marriage wasn't the big potential problem here, more that he was the equivalent of 14 or something.
You said you like to know why people downvote:
Celestia and her parents actions (and her parents' suggestion to her) have caused me to change my upvote to a downvote.
The egg petrifying thing is clever though.
9651324
Which actions of Celestia? I get the parents, but, well, they're not right in the head. I mean, she just said it was not a complete cure and here she is trying to figure out what it actually does. Unless you don't mean they shouldn't do it, but that it just seems out of place within the story? Or is it because it's not healthy behavior? Take note that she declined the offer, at least… though I can't promise everything's going to be wholesome.
Thanks for saying, anyway!
9651328
For Celestia I meant the discrete lover(s).
For her parents I meant the recommendations of casual sex as a way of clearing judgement for dating.
9651321
First - Clever!
Second - Okay.
Third - I'll re-read.
Fourth - Oops! Don't know how I missed that!
9651380
Ah, that. I'll spoil a shade and say that her mother's recollection is impaired. I'm not sure what your problem with Celestia's actions are. There's barely a hint of what it might be.
Go for it, Twilight!
They're good ideas, Twilight, you should give it a shot.
You say it like it's a bad thing. What better ponies to help you lose your virginity? It seems like they're pretty open to the idea, I bet they'd give you a good first time.
Man, the poor girl is never going to get laid at this rate.
9651296
...Wow.
9651521
Yes, but they may regret it following, and it's ethically murky at best.
9655801
quite.
9648348
That would actually make the reason that Cadance was so *very* disturbed make sense, actually.
9651390
I suspect it's the fact that Celestia had sex outside the confines of marriage.
9656264
Yeah, in light of the previous comment, that's clear. Although I never said she wasn't married. I've been toying with the idea that she's actually secretly married to this hermit who mostly meditates and she visits him sometimes, and occasionally they do stuff. But I don't think that goes in this story.
Man. Priapis has NOTHING on Bright Mac. Rock hard for what, 15, 16 years now?
Any ideas why Granny Smith is so confident?
9670819
My best guess; Apple bloom (or Applejack) is (somehow) actually the firstborn.
Second best guess; Granny Smith has seen the future.
9670856
Or Granny Smith is the one that knows all 100% of the details of the time travel. having been the only one constant to see and hear everything.
9670997
:looks at avatar:
Username fits!
9670997
*coughs*
Or because For Reasons, Apple Bloom is Big Mac's daughter by an earth pony mare.
Mare's aren't the only ones who can donate genetic material - frankly, probably easier to get it from the stallion in question, possibly without him knowing about it....
The idea that this stupid magically enforced eugenics is driving some kinky sexy times later really rubs me the wrong way. Sad pun intended.
It literally justifies the canonically rejected-in-world magical racism, and without giving any emotional or foreshadowed rational reasons. Just purple-smart infodumping the pureblood facts of life.
I guess in this story the pony tribes are living in separate but equal harmony? Anyone who is outstanding in Equestria is so only because of their parents being pony pureblood supremacists going forward, huh? That's some instant crap sack world-building--a real heel turn for friendly old Equestria.
Does this mean that in this story ALL of the Elements, all the princesses, and anyone with a non-useless cutie mark is lucky their parents followed a strict breeding program? Kinda sucks to think about.
Fuck man, is that why Scootaloo has wings that are too small? Mixed breeding? Holy shit this is a dark idea this chapter introduced.
Is this a fetish of which I'm unaware? Forced NTR breeding to preserve the purity of the race or something? Yikes.
Saddest thing is, I was really enjoying the time travel build up. What a goddamn downer development in my cute incest pony story.
*Edit
Okay that slipped into mean (which I'm leaving because it is still how I feel), but I'll attempt constructive criticism as well.
How about instead of psudo-nazi magical breeding shit, they lose the farm because it was granted by some noble to the first born Earth Pony of the pure Apple family Earth pony line? Even give Twilight something like that for her family line and a noble title or something. And that means nobles will fight them on the Apple farm ownership if they try to change the land grant, costing money and meaning the farm would go fallow while they fought it in court.
Now the racists are unnamed nobles or circumstances or something, not literally everyone.
9672427
Crap. Maybe I should have included the other side of this right up front or not at all. I have made some changes to that section. Mostly,
1) drop the references to the other elements that I tossed in in an ill-conceived edit, since she'd be making a wild-ass guess. And of course Fluttershy would be a BAD guess, and Rarity totally unfounded.
2) clarify that for most purposes mixing is ideal.
Does that make it better?
Edited to add: if I was making a political point about it, I probably wouldn't focus on the misery. Big Mac does not seem to me to be at all portrayed as being wrong.
Thanks for pointing this out, the bad version was cringey.
9672490
Hey, thank you for your reply to my comment. I had considered not posting further on this but I don't think that would be fair to you given your response. Hopefully my hesitation will be clear. Assuming you make it to the end, maybe you'll see where I'm coming from.
First, some context for where I'm at:
Given that, here are my short replies to your questions about the effects of the edits:
Was that all referenced? I guess that's where I got some of my head of steam built up from. I honestly didn't specifically remember that reference in the first version of this chapter.
Again, just my opinion, but this still isn't very clear. In fact, it seems like the major change was just reducing the emotional whiplash from the Twi-Dump, making it more neutral overall. I'm not reading anything that says magical mutts are better at all.
I did totally get that Big Mac was in-story shown morally in the right--except for the part where it would mean their farm would suffer, which is obviously his weak point. It is a perfectly fine conflict to have in the story, and would be a great way to contrast having the parents back happy times with something stressful...except that the Twi-Dump has the "always factually correct" character in the series instantly saying all the big kids do it and also, she has a workaround that is very cool and very legal.
It obviously emotionally affected me, which is good writing, but I don't think they were the intended emotions. If you want to know more, keep reading into Part Four of The Commenting.
Let me be clear here: it isn't the surrogate solution that's squicking me out. It is this apparently little known but often practiced breeding thing leading the parents into conflict being instantly supported by a moral guidepost of the series.
Let's use some examples. This right here? This isn't a rational argument from a non-biased source, but it is presented as such contextually:
It is clearly tribalist, even if it is the way the world works. Reality isn't tribalist, but having the first reaction to your now-grown son's bride be "she's not an Earth Pony" is hella tribalist. The pony reaction here is what makes it tribalist. The cultural expectation that leads to that being the first reaction for their parents is fucking awfully tribalist because it immediately judges the situation based on the tribes involved, not the content of someone's character.
Twilight saying she's totally into matchmaking (oh, but only for the first foal) based on tribes really, really feels bad to me. By making it tribal in nature via the point being supporting tribal magic, it makes it tribalist when that's the first and primary concern their parents have. It smacks hard of real life racism, including laws about mixed marriages. I get that it isn't that. It is something else. But the parents' reaction isn't just a dog whistle for racism, it is racism, tribalism, because of how they are shown to react.
If instead it was reaction that went like, "uh son, now that we're talking privately, and I hate to even mention it...she sure seems really nice and we're very happy for you both, but it would really help us out if you considered...", then that wouldn't be tribalist. It would be a cold, calculated decision to ask his son to consider something that would help the entire family.
Having their first reaction be to give an innocent mare the cold shoulder followed immediately by defending their reaction should make them in the wrong. Big Mac certainly thinks so. But the Twi-dump says otherwise, giving it all a very bad feeling to me. Twilight isn't shown as being biased or socially stunted here, the parents aren't shown to be massively overreacting and defensive, and Big Mac isn't shown to be the clear victim of some really weird ideas with which he's seriously uncomfortable.
Obviously my preceding example of an alternative narrative has less drama in somes ways, but having purple-smart slap down the idea of it being tribalist so fast and so incorrectly rings literally all the nazi alarm bells while also solving all the drama, sorta, by saying everyone else is wrong to think it is tribalist and they are all therefore overreacting to the situation. The opposite of what the message should be.
Something that smells of racism and forced breeding programs is immediately excused for thin and emotional reasons, without the situation being properly contextualized by anyone. The victims are shocked and the reassurance isn't satisfying even for them. All context also comes from the people saying sorta racist stuff, with an obvious bias towards doing the sorta racist stuff. For example, no solutions are given for the anti-thesis: Big Mac and his wife have a slightly suboptimal for farming kid or kids. They are just told their kids would literally be half as good at farming.
This doesn't save it:
That literally makes it worse. The things we are historically shown are classic Earth Pony and Unicorn things, farming and magic, need purebloods to get the overwhelmingly best chance at outstanding kids. It practically implies that you're basically causing magical or farming birth defects by not respecting pureblood breeding plans. That's fine for a way reality works. But it doesn't support the idea that mutts are better at all when that's what most people think of when they think of tribal traits.
Together, this text says to me that it isn't supposed to be tribalist because this breeding plan "only" works on the most lauded and popular traits that two of the three tribes have--magic and farming--which is of course clearly illogical nonsense if stated that way.
Making the bestest, strongest baby is a classic breeder kink feature, and one I'm totally down for. But making it part of some "what's best for the tribe's keystone magic" thing is antithetical to the basic canon esthetic of Equestria, where the content of your character and the friends you make is what really matters the most. It is also bad that it is linked to his wife even existing as a unicorn, not to him possibly not having donated sperm to an Earth Pony breeding program. The alternative of a "are you man enough to donate to the future of the family bloodline" thing would be so much better than "the tribe's classic magic grows weaker when you breed with the other."
Then, to cap it off, we're told Applejack's kids are auto-fucked farming wise, and her attempts to save the farm for her family (a staple of her story and character) are ultimately doomed to failure unless her brother gets with the (breeding) program. And even then, it won't be her kids continuing the family farm, but his super-foal.
i.imgur.com/J0pASyh.jpg (facehoof dash)
Do you see why this bugs me? Again, I know this is my opinion only. And I'm a student of history, so I'm naturally hella sensitive about pseudo-scientific eugenics shit. Which this isn't, really, if that's how the world works. But it looks like it and sounds like it. So yeah. That's my reaction. Do with it what you will.
Thanks for writing and I hope this doesn't bum you out or anything. Assuming, of course, that you're not a closet nazi or something. In which case, sure, be bummed out please.
9673524
Thank you for putting in so much effort. I see what you're saying. There are two huge differences between Equestria and Earth, though, that I can't get around.
1) the tribes are in fact radically different. Utterly dwarfs any between-race difference on Earth. Utterly dwarfs most if not all differences in a single genus on Earth.
2) extreme power is observed to run in families (Shining Armor is nuts), yet this power does not spread all over the place through evolution.
So, the parallels between this and real life come pre-broken. I can see how bridging that gap is all too easy.
As for the initial reaction, they're kind of overwhelmed and so much is happening at once they can't say it right. Twilight is getting all technical about it. These are not necessarily the right things to do. I'll see if I can write that in better.
>> I'm not reading anything that says magical mutts are better at all.
Did you miss the below-quoted part? I did sprinkle the edits over a bit of a range, so you might have. Or you might have somehow read it differently.
> And it's just that if you want to be solely focused on, say, farming or high-power magic, it helps. For most focuses, mixing helps a lot. Just, not farming
9673557
Let's do things in reverse order this time.
Got the reference to mixed being better for some things but maybe not a strongly as you intended. A careful reading suggests that Earth Pony and Unicorn magic are the only ones you can aim for, though. If mixed is better for other focuses then it isn't really better for anything but a sort of min-maxed population via the power of diversity.
Which means pureblood breeding is bad for diversity and overall pony society, as they'll miss out on all the high-powered bakers and dentists if everyone did what these specific, privileged ponies want to do. And that and other things not being automatically a big deal is another racism issue.
Maybe this Equestria doesn't have that sort of racism, despite an even worse history of its effects? Okay, If racism doesn't work in Equestria like on Earth, either because of their gross physical differences or tribal magic, then why does Big Mac react the way he does: a clear echo of how someone with Earth mores would?
I think I'll leave it there as I've probably explained my take on these items clearly enough. Thank you for your responses.
9673701
Last point - I see Tribalism as being a thing, and there are some out there who are noxiously tribalist. They're as wrong about it as they are in real life.
Previous thing - The stemmaturgical implications of mixing are not so cut-and-dried as to make the existence of pure lines a bad thing, so long as the society as a whole is mixed. Shall we say, under this system, it's good to have diverse levels of diversity.
Thank you for sticking with me. I'll continue to see what I can do to get this chapter to convey the right levels and kinds of not-right, and present them so they land appropriately, not just being that way in my head. While still motivating the three sexy-time situations this is supposed to (none of which have to do with breeding fetish)!
Nice to see Rumble getting catching a break, and Sweetie Belle seemed pretty eager to help, hmm...
9656890
Well, that makes it better, but not quite enough for my vote to change. Sorry.
Before I read this, I must know: Why would we think this is an author tract?
9709915
Because some characters do explicit moral reasoning, and come to conclusions.
These are not necessarily correct.
Actually, this raises an interesting question. Is it dependent on age group, as in, 20-25, or is it a strict numerical difference in years? If it's the latter, then the royal sisters might just be able to ''cure'' each other. If one assumes that all of the Mane 6 are within a couple/few years of each other, and their little sisters are similarly close in age, then, so long as the royal sisters have a similar age difference between them, it might just work. Honestly, that seems like the kind of detail Twilight might be particularly interested in.
Unless Luna's time banished to the moon trapped her in some kind of limbo, or in some other way affected her age, according to the parameters of the ''Flurry Effect,'' let's call it. But either way, it could definitively rule out one possibility. After all, if it didn't work for them, then it's about the significance about the age-gap, rather than the cold, hard numbers.
Unless the taboo of them being sisters somehow adds a...counterbalance to the alleviating effects.
Yes, I realize I'm probably thinking way too hard about this. It's just the way I am, sometimes.