A thirtysomething Brony from Pennsylvania with a library degree. I also have a Patreon.
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It's been years since Twilight Sparkle has seen Spike—not that she's had any particular desire to find him since their friendship turned sour. However, with Equestria facing an imminent invasion, Twilight's advisors convince her to make a final effort to mend her relationship with her former assistant.
Artwork by Page Turner.
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not a fan. The logic seems all kind of flawed. Spike apparently thinsk dragons needed pony help for something when right here, right now dragons are defeating ponies.
I get the feeling Twilight is supposed to be in the wrong here, but Spike can go buck himself from what I'm seeing
I hope theirs going to be a sequel or something
I have to ask, how many dragons tried to aid Thorax, exactly? And against how many changelings? Because dragons may not have pony magic, but they're still virtually forces of nature in their own right, and changelings with nothing to hide behind or feed on don't seem like they should fare that well against a significant number of firebreathing, flying tanks. Really, Twilight convincing ponies to stay out of the conflict actually did deny the changelings some of their greatest tactical strengths. You don't send a prey species in against something specialized for predating on them.
That being said, what matters is that Spike feels that the closest friend he ever had abandoned him in his time of greatest need. Now he's just returning the favor. I'm not saying he's right—honestly, I don't think anyone involved here can be said to be right—but I understand where he's coming from. The background information strains my suspension of disbelief something awful, but the emotion on display works very well.
7605595
Garble's assault hasn't started yet. Twilight's the one who's worried; Spike is convinced that ponies will easily trump dragons in the coming conflict. Seems internally consistent to me.
7605646 he's also abandoning quite a few other friends
Interesting symmetry, here.
"Hey, I know that I was unwilling to commit my people to help your friend gain political power in a revolt against a hostile nation that attacked us before that would stop a tyrant... but could you help with this revolt in a foreign country to stop a tyrant in order to save my people?"
7605646
Honestly, way more important is this:
That's pretty damning...
Beyond that, Twilight has literally caused miracles to happen because of the bonds of friendships, and she doesn't even regret that she (apparently) didn't support Thorax in his rebellion against a tyrannical nation. She didn't even try to come up with something, from how it sounds. (Although that's just speculation. What's likely is she thought it was mildly sad but not very important, and this was probably clear in a lack of real regret in any apologies.)
And now she's come to demand Spike do the thing that he wanted her to do with Thorax?
That being said, I half expected a "then later" of Spike showing up to help with the plan, if for no other reason than because the other ponies shouldn't pay for her mistake or something, and that it would be better for the dragons for Garble not to be in charge anyway.
... Basically that it would be the "right" thing to do, to stop Garble, and Spike would want to do the right thing, even if he hates the person he's helping to do it.
I'm just really annoyed at the title right now.
"Everything is falling" is grammatically correct. "The stars is falling" is not.
While "The stars" are placed between commas, as an aside like this, the "is" is more correct.[1] However I still read it as "Everything including the stars is falling" which feels wrong to me, and the commas seem to make it worse for some reason. Which begs the question; Why not "Even the Stars are Falling"?
Do not underestimate how much a wonky title irks me. Irks me good.
[1] Don't you love self-illustrative sentences?
Oh you've got to make a sequel for this!
This story feels like the middle of something epic. Where's the rest?
Sorry, but I didn't like this very much.
With so much of the setup only implied, it's a bit too simplistic, which leaves the drama feeling heavy-handed and forced. Spike is acting like a child, and Twilight barely resembles her canon character.
7605916 yeah from a single person your argument makes sense but when said person is a political leader it dosnt have a leg to stand on
L-O-V-E-D it!! It's a real shame if it ends here, but I always enjoy Grown Spike vs. Princess Twilight stories.
7606218 The story is named after a song by Training For Utopia titled "Everything, Including the Stars, Is Falling (Baby)." The band had a thing for odd song titles.
Not entirely sure about the background political scene, but I find the rift between Twilight and Spike fascinating. The show isn't that dark (or deep), but for all of it Spike has been Twilight's little brother (or even son), yet he has to grow up someday, and in this story, I'm not sure Twilight ever realized that. The implications of Twilight calling the whole thing trivial, hm. She means that Thorax didn't really matter, he was only Spike's friend not hers, that she doesn't think Spike understood the situation, implying that this is just a temper tantrum on his part rather than him feeling betrayed and abandoned. One or all of those things?
I have no idea if Spike's plan would have worked or not, but calling it trivial, belittling him like that, was the final nail in the coffin. Doesn't help that she only showed up to ask for help, though I think Sunset and Starlight probably hoped to solve two problems at once. Yeah, sending Rarity would have been an even more blatant attempt to bribe Spike, and probably would have turned out worse (not like Rarity really treated Spike as an equal).
7606515 So Twilight sighs and calls, "Discord, we tried it the emo way and it didn't work (who'd a-thunk it, right?), so I guess we'll do it your way now."
And Discord rules the mad mad mad mad world forevers!
Anyway, given that Twilight and the others already know Chrysalis can't be trusted... why would they bother with a treaty in the first place if they never expected her to abide by it?
It'd be akin to George W. Bush suddenly making a deal with Saddam Hussein. It just doesn't seem plausible.
7606926 There are good reasons to maintain peaceful relations with one's enemies, even if it's a farce. Even if one could dictate a regime change, it can be very hard to make it stick. The GWB/SH comparison is relevant here, given the state of that country over the past decade.
7606584
You seem to forget that to save friends, in the past Twilight has literally made the worst possible tactical decisions because of hostage situations, and it still worked out. She gave up all the magical power to Tirek because her friends might die, but the power of friendship saw them through.
She was willing to sacrifice the world for them. She only lucked out that the Elements of Harmony magic activated, and she had no idea they would. And then in this case she's unwilling to risk ponies in an potentially salient plan (and apparently offered no alternate plans) to help a friend save a friend and do something that Spike no doubt saw as the right thing, save the changelings from their tyrant.
And even then, I understand that if the plan was genuinely unworkable she still had to say no. If that decision wasn't a difficult ambiguous one (where Twilight could have been totally wrong in turning down Spike, or Spike could have been totally wrong in expecting Twilight to come to his aid, depending on if the plan worked or not) this story wouldn't be as impactful.
The tragedy of a situation that would have been difficult to avoid wouldn't have been there. The reason why I'm defending Spike is mostly to show that he has a decent argument and a decent reason to believe he could be right; he's not just throwing a tantrum for no reason.
I am more biased on the emotional component of the conflict, though, where Twilight apparently doesn't consider it of any consequence that Thorax and the dissidents are now all captured, killed, or anything, and that it appears she never actually revealed that she didn't think the plan was viable. Those would have been indicators of respect for Spike's desires/actions/mindset which is important in maintaining friendships.
7606848 It took me forever to decide on "trivial." Coming up with a single word that summarized Twilight's thoughts on the matter without seeming too clunky was really difficult, and I'm still not sure if I chose the best word/phrase. (Something more accurate, like "ultimately inconsequential," just didn't sound right when I read it out loud.)
So... It's over? Or are you going to make a sequel?
I'm just commenting to say, that it looks like the Harry Potter-font
I can't in good conscious thumbs up a story with such a downer ending without an appropriate buildup, which wasn't here. As you said, it seems like this story could have used any insert excuse here part to explain the ending of the friendship. It feels forced, drama wise, to contain it all in such a small word-count. There was no genuine effort to repair the friendship, so it feels like it isn't thematic to the show and character's values. There is no evolution of a relationship or a good dialogue, and certainly no cathartic turns to it at all. Perhaps the most genuine twist was Twilight calling the entire thing trivial.
People put their foot in their mouth sometimes in conversations, but here it's used as the definitive ending, so it creates a rather sour feeling reading it when I've seen other examples of people recovering from such a misstep later on, or taking a break, or sleeping on it. Here, nope, it's The End.
I just feel disappointed having read this story.
I hope there's a sequel!
I like how Spike tells Twilight the Ponies will win, in the end. Unicorns are too OP not to have a backup plan. From teleporting hearts out of chests to a cloud of tiny floating 1mm shield discs able to spin around the caster at thousands of rotations per second... They'll win. What ever it costs.
Wow, what a story. Will there be a sequel?
7607294 Yeah, that was nice. Spike keeps it real.
I love the end.
7607037 "Trivial" was the perfect choice.
7606959 But it's the same situation. The ponies have even less reason to trust Chrysalis to abide by anything than W had to believe Saddam.
Namely because changelings can shape-shift and mind-control ponies. Not to mention they lie as a way of life.
Rather hard to build any semblance of trust with such a race/species, especially when their first announcement of their existence was a violent invasion.
Given all of these relevant issues with a treaty between changelings and ponies, we need to have some idea of why it ever occurred in the first place and why the ponies apparently have are comfortable having so little influence over an enemy they clearly cannot trust in the least.
You see, we're expected to take far too much at face value in this little story. There's no foundation for most of it, and it diverts too radically from the show's course to be plausible based solely on the events we know.
7607037
It's "imminent."
Seems pretty out of character for Twilight to choose the pragmatic but morally dubious choice there. The disagreement itself might have been more compelling in situ but as it is this mostly comes across as hard to believe.
7607959 That's more or less the point I made in my original post. The story cuts a lot of corners in terms of setup, and a lot of what is there is implied. There's not enough there there for the drama to feel natural.
Regarding the changeling situation, it would ultimately have come down to peaceful terms, or conflict. Given how messy a forced regime change can be (again, look to post-war Iraq/Afghanistan for examples), I can envision them opting for a facade of peace and playing the long game. Then again, the story doesn't spend much time developing this, despite it being the crux of the drama.
Twilight pulled something? Alicorns can pull muscles? I mean, I know they're not invincible, but I really feel like we're devaluing them hard at this point. That's like if Celestia scraped her knee.
7608324 Well, to be brutally and coldly honest in a purely logical analysis, the mess in the Middle East exists only because of restraint.
In the long-ago days, the victor would have left nothing standing and most of the population would be exterminated.
If we truly wished to simply win against such foes, it would be quite a simple affair. Victories can only be permanent when they are absolute.
Now, we have seen that it more recent times, such as with Germany and Japan, a crushing material and ideological defeat followed by rebuilding can also effect a permanent change.
Celestia is very old and experienced. She would know better than to parley with liars and draft an illusory peace certain to break. If I can see how clearly fool-hardy it is, then surely she would as well.
I think this story is a good interpretation of how a break between Twilight and Spike would work. In the show Spike clearly idolizes Twilight, especially after her ascension. So he sees her failing to live up to his idealized image of her in his time of need and he feels betrayed. Twilight, on the other hand, focuses so hard on what's "important" that she ignores the feelings of others. So as a princess she ends up prioritizing Equestria's needs over everything else, including her sense of morality. Add Twilight's stubbornness and occasional insensitivity and you have dysfunctional relationship stew.
7607240
I completely agree. There's no story here. No build-up, no conflict, no stakes, etc. The entire story is pretty much contained in the preview blurb. The only thing revealed in the story is why it happened, but that's inconsequential to what's happening now. It doesn't matter why the characters came to a falling out. It's how it affected them, how they are going to cope going forward that matters. Okay, you want to go for a downer ending, that's okay too, but you have to earn it by showing how it affected them in the past and now. Neither character here seems to care all that much. The beginning of the story has it revealed that Twilight basically had to be manipulated into doing this and thinks of it as a waste of time.
If the characters in the story don't care, the readers sure as hell won't.
The author has a good premise here. It needs fleshed out to be a story.
7608437 That is a good point, but remember that these are ponies. Those are the kind of tactics they wouldn't embrace. How many second chances did they give Discord, afterall?
Any treaty they did craft would be fragile, but the point of a treaty like that isn't just to maintain peace. Being formally at peace opens the door to things like trade and immigration, which are the foundation for a more lasting peace.
7609331 Well, the second chances to Discord are a questionable affair, writing-wise, given that the reason for his reform in the first place didn't make the slightest bit of sense. This was the same Celestia who was visibly shaken by his mere appearance in the show. The same Celestia who hoped he'd remain petrified forever, who suffered through his reign and saw the misery of the other ponies he caused for his own amusement.
Why would this Celestia then randomly decide to release an enemy like that... because maaaaaaybe he'd come in handy... some day? Maybe?
With a poor plot point like that, we have to seriously question the validity of the writing involving Discord in every following instance.
7608437
You should read more history. That kind of thing did not happen nearly as often as you seem to think - most historical warfare has tried to conquer and annex populations and their infrastructure in a reasonably intact state. Partially for moral reasons, but also for practical ones; a ruined wasteland is not useful.
Like, the Mongols would sometimes exterminate their enemies, in part because as a nomadic civilisation they had radically different priorities than sedentary, city-based ones, and they were regarded as exceptionally terrifying because of it.
7610482 If I had to try and justify the decision to reform Discord, I'd point to the Changeling invasion. It very much highlighted the weakness of both Elements and Alicorns, and the pair that defeated them now reside in a different country altogether. I can see them wanting a proper ace-in-the-hole.
Alternatively, Celestia says that Discord broke free because the Elements chose new bearers. Once the current bearers pass on, he would probably break free again, and they would just have to face him again anyway. Better to attempt reform now, with bearers already "wise to his game," than to roll the dice again in another 60 years or so.
As for how risky the plan itself was, that comes down to the actual limits of Discord's power and the mechanics of the Elements of Harmony, which the show never really defines, so it could go either way.
7610551 Actually, world-wide, it was more common for destruction and/or enslavement to be the result in many areas, especially in South and Central America and the Middle East. They may not have torn down the biggest structures (as that would have taken a long time and more resources than they'd already expended), but wooden and thatch buildings were often torched.
Slaughter of all males was also common practice. It is noted not just in the Bible, but also in the stories of the Buddah, namely with regard to what happened to his home city. It was most commonly a result after a total, crushing defeat of one side's forces or after a long siege of a city.
7610565 No, Celestia noted she and Luna couldn't use the Elements because they'd chosen new Bearers. She wasn't referring to the spell.
She had merely assumed it would be permanent and was still uncertain of why it broke.
And besides, that STILL makes no sense. To stop the changelings... whom they handily defeated on their own despite being taken utterly by surprise and WITHOUT the Elements, I might add, they decide to release the SINGLE MOST POWERFUL ENEMY THEY HAD EVER FACED TO THAT POINT, one who showed exactly no traces of remorse or regret... and hope to god they could reform him or they'd be screwed.
Yeah, not exactly the highlight of strategy there.
7610655 Yeah, the slaughter (or enslavement, but enslavement is a very different prospect than extermination) of males, particularly those of a fighting age, was more widespread, but that's of a more limited scope than total extermination.
I'm not a novice when it comes to history, Alondro. I can certainly rattle off occasions where exterminations have happened - the Harrying of the North in England, various occasions by the Mongol hordes, the fates of Carthage and Corinth, but a common thread among these is that they were departures from the norm - that's part of why they've stuck around in history, because the shocking scale of the slaughter made them famous.
If you want to say things were radically different in South/Central America and the Middle East then... No, sorry, I'm going to want some examples for that.
7610665 To quote from the episode, "I thought the spell we cast would keep him contained forever. But since Luna and I are no longer connected to the Elements, the Spell has been broken."
And yes, they (Cadance and Shining Armor) defeated the Changelings. But they are now in the Crystal Empire, not Equestria proper, and they stopped that one threat only. Considering their guards, their Princess, and their Elements couldn't stop that threat, they could easily feel the need for another line of defense.
And if we take what Celestia says at face value, Discord could no longer take the Elements from them, so they could skip straight to the end if he tried anything.
7610686 Read the Old Testament?
7610690 Huh, I recalled the line differently. But it doesn't matter to my point.
They're releasing the greatest enemy. For no stated reason. Hoping he could be reformed with no evidence that he would be. Also, taking for granted that they had somehow managed to block him from stealing the Elements when their magic had proven utterly powerless against him every single time before.
It still MAKES NO SENSE.
You can make all sorts of arguments, but they're BASELESS supposition and fanon. The fact is that the ONLY 'reason' Celestia gives is some vague notion his magic could be useful someday for some completely ambiguous purpose. Then she goes off and leaves for some meeting, leaving them alone with the greatest enemy yet revealed in the show. She NEVER mentions any concern that when the Bearers are gone, he'll break free again. There is absolutely NOTHING other than the vagaries of her single line of rationale.
Could that have been the reason? Maybe in the hands of a better writer. I've seen such stories involving that, and several were BRILLIANTLY constructed and would have served the plot point of reforming Discord in a magnificent manner. But all we have is what Celestia gives for the SOLE REASON she's attempting it: his magic might be useful for good someday.
All that risk, all the potential for failure... because of a completely uncertain and ambiguous possibility of future utility.
Any typical analysis of risk-reward given the fact up to that point would stand STARKLY in favor of not bothering.
If an explanation actually existed in the minds of the show writers, then why wasn't it stated or implied? Why did the rationale behind such a risky move, a plot point which would otherwise be elaborated on in detail simply because it's such a tremendous risk that most writers would realize implicitly it demands a strong and reasonable explanation, fall completely by the wayside, never to be brought up again by even a single character?
Because that potential disaster happened to work out because of kiddie cartoon conventions DOES NOT MAKE IT STRONG WRITING. The writers could have them decide to reform Tirek and Chrysalis out of the blue too, and it could occur for as flimsy a reason as the villains 'got tired of being bad'. Simply because a fictional event is written a certain way doesn't immediately grant it intrinsic plausibility. I'm tired of people making excuses for implausible events simply because of fan wankery.
I've already been over this with Magical Mystery Cure, my ultimate victory coming when no less than M. A. Larson expressed his own feelings with the statement that Twilight didn't earn her wings in that episode. It was a hastily-written episode with massive plot holes and issues with internal consistency, all because they wanted to have an 'ending' to the series if it wasn't continued.
And the result of this irrational redemption attempt of Discord was that he betrayed them to such a devastating extent that, had Tirek actually been as ruthless as his G1 counterpart, they would all have been dead because Tirek had no reason to keep his word to Twilight once he'd gotten all the power. A REAL villain would have done a Dark Helmet, made a remark about 'evil always triumphing because good is dumb' and then vaporized them.
Again, the PLOT CONVENIENCE of them surviving Tirek was just that, slap-dash writing to cover writing themselves into a corner. Much like Chrysalis staring out the window while power-ups occurred right behind her. Austin Powers poked fun at that sort of convenient villain obliviousness multiple times.
And still, to this day, we have yet to see how Discord has really been useful. His appearances have mainly been episodic and are lessons FOR HIM.
MLP is a fun show, but it's HARDLY the hallmark of strong plotting when it comes down to the 'adventure' stories. The two best were "Return of Harmony" and "The Cutie Map", in which Discord's flippant nature supplied the means to his defeat, since he wasn't TRULY wicked in the first place. If he had been, there would have been ZERO hope of stopping him. And Starlight Glimmer was (at that time) an interesting villain with a unique ability which she used cleverly, but she was not so overwhelmingly powerful that she could not be stopped by conventional means once her lies were revealed.
As for the rest, 3 stories would have ended very differently with slightly more competent villains.
Nightmare Moon should have won. She could have killed the Mane 6 at any time, or simply collapsed the castle ruins to prevent them finding the Elements, had it not been for the conventions of a girl's show and hero victory.
Chrysalis should have won. The ponies had nothing left but a miraculous Deus Ex Machina solution from out of nowhere... which somehow blew them away with love... which was what they fed on... come on, I'm not the only person who finds that more than a little incredulous.
Tirek should have won, for the reasons already mentioned. He was so ludicrously overpowered and had them crushed so completely, all it would have taken was one hoof stomping Twilight flat and it would have been game over for all intents and purposes. As stated previously, he had no reason to keep his word to Twilight. Had she insisted on a geas or some other magical enforcement spell (the Unbreakable Vow from "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince" comes to mind) to bind him to his promise, THEN I could accept it. But as he was written, he should have betrayed her as quickly as he had Discord.
Now Sombra was one of the few villains who actually had a truly legitimate loss (Starlight being the other), by a weapon which was stated from the start could defeat him. Though his character was fairly weak, how he'd captured the Empire in the first place if the Crystal Heart was already there (an important point of order, since he'd have had to overcome the Crystal Heart by some means to effect a takeover) and the placement of the Crystal Heart somewhere that should have been easily found early on (nobody ever checks the roof! Sheesh!), the core plot points did progress to a plausible loss on his part.
7605916
Why can't I like this more than once?!
7611327 I don't consider it a reliable source. Historical examples, please, not religious fiction.
7611662 Many of the battles have been found to occur. But whatever, it's not my job to convince you of the brutality of the conquests before the Roman Empire. I don't exactly keep reams of notes and references on the subject and I'm not interested enough to go look everything up again after all these years.
7611373 I'm not going to defend Keep Calm and Flutter On. I like the idea, but the whole episode is underdeveloped, and probably would have worked better as a two-parter. The only reason I brought up Discord in the first place is that it set a precedent for the characters taking big risks to give second chances to those that haven't really earned them. Thus, it's not implausible they would extend the same to Chrysalis. I'm not calling it good writing, but there is precedent.
I'm not going to defend this story either. I like the idea, and I think could have worked, but it's also too underdeveloped.
I have to agree with pretty much everything RadicalDishonesty has said. This really doesn't make much sense from when you take a look at the character's we've come to learn and love over the last six years. Not to mention the fact that this story is set in an epic that is much longer and wider in scope than this little snap shot would ever do justice.
I get that you wanted to explore the tragedy of a broken bond, and the hardest bond to repair is sometimes the bond that seemed the strong, Twilight and Spike. But you significantly need to work on the execution of this tragedy. You need to show us in more detail how exactly it came to pass. The neither party is right or wrong, that they both made mistakes, yet the inability to admit that has lead to a relationship that can never be repaired. How their flaws are the cause of it.
As it is written, Twilight is very clearly in the wrong, so this is not the tragedy you want it to be. Not to mention, I cannot see Chrylisis winning against the dragons. Combined with no mention of Ember at all, and this story... it is just not good.
the fuck i dont feel the feels im just angry like why did that happen i wanted a happy ending dammit
Yes! HELL YEAH! Finally! A story that allows Spike to talk back to Twilight! I love this feeling! Thank you Author!