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Admiral Biscuit
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Admiral Biscuit
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Was trigger an actual horse?
5199789 Pretty sure that's the case, yeah.
I suppose Summer Breeze may have come to a misunderstanding of what was considered socially acceptable on Earth if her research was being done via internet searches...
5199789
Technically, a pony, but yes.
Oh boy. Someone has to talk to her about laws and things.
So nobody thought to explain the sapience difference between Equestrian equines and Terrestrial equines? That seems like a really big oversight. Or maybe it was in the pamphlet... nobody ever reads the pamphlet.
Or maybe she did now and just didn't care? Actually, I like that hypothesis more...
Jack Harkness rule check failure.
5199885
I know! That pamphlet is there for a reason, people!
5199885 What pamphlet? Wait, that wasn't a takeout menu? Now I just feel silly.
"Summer, darlin', I think it's time you and I had a little sit-down. . . "
Assuming equivalent heights for our ponies and Equestrian ponies, wouldn't they have a problem in the opposite direction? Equestrian ponies are a lot stubbier from back to front than our ponies, so they presumably wouldn't be able to take as much, so to speak.
5200224
Based on careful calculations, and estimations of a pony's bone structure (uterus has to be in front of the pelvis), a MLP stallion would be somewhere between 21 and 45 cm long when erect. This is assuming that ponies have similar bone structure to IRL horses, and that they did it 'pony style' until fairly recently, in an evolutionary sense.
5199810
The question is, which of Summer's relationships is less legal?
5199885
She'd have to know. Even if she somehow didn't have it explained before she went to Earth, it would be pretty obvious when she went to talk to Trigger.
5200861
The one with the stallion is the illegal one because consent can not be gained.
5200866
Well, you never know... Young college boys and girls can be pretty airheaded sometimes, especially if they've been denied a satisfactory... 'college experience'. Stupider things have been done.
P.S. You should make a sister fic for human students in equestria! Unless you did already and I missed it?
5200628 21 cm to 45 cm . . . 8 inches to 18 inches. That's still less alarming than the 20 inches mentioned in the story.
it's not cheating if it's an animal
5200628
but you have to halve that since they can't hilt*, and girth would be less, except for the flare, when flared
*unless you're calculating that based on the size of the female's pelvis?
5201334
From a moral standpoint I agree 100%. But that got me to thinking (uh oh), and I looked up some laws on a state-by-state basis.
I picked Michigan first, since that's where I live. Assuming that Summer is considered a 'person' [if she's not, things get more vague], some of the acts which she performed with Tommy were illegal (sodomy);* interestingly, it's the same law which also makes bestiality illegal in Michigan. Thus, from a legal standpoint, both relationships were a felony.
Interestingly, had she been in Ohio, she would have been legal regardless. Not only does Ohio not have a sodomy law, it doesn't have any laws against bestiality, either.
Given that she has to appeal to the stallion before he can become capable of performing the act, it could be argued that he implicitly gave his consent when she gave the appropriate signals to him.
Although it wasn't my intent when I wrote the story, it does raise some interesting legal questions about how the legal system would handle sapient alien creatures, and I would quite honestly be interested in reading a well-researched story with that premise.
___________________________
*For what it's worth, a US Supreme Court case in 2003 invalidated the sodomy laws of all the states which still had them, although the Michigan law is still on the books, as far as I know. Also, I should mention that I'm not a lawyer, and I did all my research by interneting, so take it with a grain of salt.
5201602
Summer was guessing. That's my excuse.
5203116
I factored that into some of the calculations, as well as a best guess as to how a MLP pony's pelvis would be shaped. A friend and I actually exchanged a few PMs back and forth on the subject; that's part of the reason there's such a broad range in my comment to 5200224. We did both simple ratio scaling (a MLP pony is X percent smaller than a real horse), figure scaling (where the pelvis must be), and so forth.
Given their unrealistic short torsos, a Shetland Pony (Trigger) would likely be longer than an Equestrian stallion; as you correctly pointed out, doing it 'pony style' means you can't get the whole thing in.
For the sake of this story, I went with the extreme upper end of the numbers we came up with for humor. Realistically, our numbers, at the low end, were only marginally larger than an average human.
5203104
While doing research, I came across a case of a man who was caught doing the nasty with a goat. Rather than prosecute, the local authorities made the man marry the goat, and pay a dowry to the goat's owner.
5200628 I know you research a lot. But I don't know whether or not to be concerned that you know that kind of info, mister.
Enjoyable read. Also, since no one else did it:
5204238
The initial measurements came from a fact book about horses; I just applied the scaling that was used in my Science blog, discussed it with a fellow philosopher, and came up with what we believe to be a plausible range. I'm more in favor of the higher number; he prefers the lower,
Although I will say, having a tab open showing a mare's reproductive anatomy, another tab showing a horse skeleton, and me measuring my Applejack with a digital caliper and taking notes on a legal pad . . . well, it's one of the things I do to bring y'all the most accurate stories I can.
5206480 You're a trooper.
I think what I find most amusing is the utter lack of sensationalism or salacity when you write about subjects like this. I really like the hint of the anthropologists's detachedness. Very well done, and the twist at the end is great!
Though in some ways your comment sections are more interesting than the stories that spawn them...
5222678
If you haven't, read The Sex Shop. It's even more laid back.
Thanks!
I'm okay with that. If I ever wind up being a professional published author, I think I'll miss that more than anything else.
5203282
None at all? Weird...
Out of curiosity, for states that do, would bestiality include clop or other such things?also, what's a sodomy law?
Over on tumblr, arousal as a sign of consent is open to debate. Although in the case of a stallion mounting the mare in question, the stallion's consent wouldn't even be questioned. It would be pretty obvious.
The lawmaking process is messy, so I would love to read it as well.
5340090
Most likely varies by state. Generally, you have to perform an actual sexual act with an actual animal for it to count.
A broad term for laws which prohibit certain sexual acts, even between consenting partners. Sodomy is generally understood as anal sex (hence the remark that Summer Breeze had admitted to breaking the law with Thomas), but legally can cover other acts as well.
I would never consider simple arousal as consent when it comes to other humans, but in animals that's a bit fuzzier, especially in a situation like the one presented in the story.
There's a chance I'll write something along those lines sooner or later. All I need to find is a lawyer who's a brony or who is at least willing to do research. . . .
5343054
Pretty sure animals straight-up are not able to consent in the sense that the law intends (as in, 'informed' consent)
There's special laws that say you don't need their consent for some things - heck, plenty of things can only be done to animals; It'd be illegal even with informed consent from a human - but keep in mind that a 12-year-old human is considered too psychologically immature to consent in just about every single place in the world.
Any animals that are less able to consider the long-term consequences than a teen-aged human, is not able to be sufficiently 'informed' to give 'informed consent'.
Whether we need to require informed consent from animals is of course an entirely different argument; It's possible that humanity's greater intellect also comes with a greater vulnerability to mental trauma (as in, it's possible coerced and under-age sex has far worse consequences for a human mind, than for a simpler one)
But even the 'hey, if the animal chooses to initiate it, clearly they're giving consent' argument doesn't work; If a 30-year-old woman dressed up in revealing clothing and hung around a high-school, it'd still generally be considered as her raping them if she 'let' a barely-teenaged boy have sex with her (because they aren't old enough to be able to give 'informed consent')
For the record, I do consider bestiality as disgusting and wrong, as an animal lover in the entirely platonic sense, but there's been flame-wars about it on furry forums since the origin of the internet; I'm kind of numb to it now, and I figure it's a matter between the zoophiles and the legislators.
Of course, all of this becomes irrelevant with 'magical talking ponies': Our laws assume a single 'sapient' species, and we kind of smirk and cough nervously at the idea that some of the more intelligent animals might be close to being 'sufficiently' intelligent.
A straight-out humanoid mind in a pony body would require a change in the law - such as defining MLP-style ponies as 'legally human', perhaps with some allowances for nudity and the like.
They'd certainly not be what we consider 'animals' - though, of course, they'd be just as much an intelligent mammal as humans are, so technically a type of animal.
I don't know if that question can be answered, since it's hard to judge how self-aware animals are. I don't know of any studies which are definitive, anyhow.
One of my part-time jobs is working with developmentally disabled adults, and there are certainly some special rules in place about what we can and cannot do. For example, we can't trick them into taking their medications. If they refuse, that's that. Likewise, some of them get certain privileges because they're determined to be capable of making an informed choice regarding that particular privilege.
While I realize that the two situations aren't the same, there are some similarities. I also think that in this situation, there would be all sorts of messy legal situations which arise. In another story of mine, Pinkie winds up getting arrested for indecent exposure.
In this particular case, though, what are the long-term consequences to Trigger having sex with Summer Breeze? Let's assume that he's not biologically compatible enough to get her pregnant.
Animals are surely able to remember traumatic events to an extent. Social animals could likely experience mental trauma due to emotional event. That having been said, I can't imagine that an actual equine has a concept of age of consent; presumably, when they're physically able they're also mentally prepared.
As you pointed out, when you get to an alien sapient race, though, things get kind of fuzzy. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that a MLP pony isn't the same as an IRL equine; they might be furry little quadrupeds, but they're mentally people. The same could be said of any sapient race in any sci-fi or fantasy story. You can't really argue in a HiE story that a pony and human pairing doesn't involve consent. The really messy question is how it applies if the alien species in question is trying to get closer to something that's more her species. To reverse my earlier presumption, suppose that the only way Summer Breeze could have a foal was if she hooked up with an actual stallion? Would it be morally wrong then?
And that's where the lawmaking process could get really interesting. We'd have to re-define a lot. Nudity laws would probably be the least of our worries; how might the Americans with Disabilities Act apply to ponies, for example? What happens when a pony wants to get a driver's license? Can you have two different sets of laws for two different classes of people? It's a question we as a society still haven't resolved for different genders and races. To name just one example, consider Facebook's regulations regarding female nipples vs. male nipples.
You devious sunofagun. :3
7094850
Huh.
Beautiful. The fact that this was so meticulously researched just makes it about 300% better.
5222678
No kidding. I genuinely can't decide which of the two is more glorious here.
I keep forgetting how incredibly many slice of life stories you have, many detailing pony human relationships in a straightforward way.
7105654
I've often claimed that while I might not write the best stories on FimFiction, they're the most well-researched.
7109034
51 SoL, 12 tagged Human & SoL (although CSI/OPP isn't tagged SoL).
I saw this coming even before the punchline.
One thing to note: while the dick of a horse might be fairly long, I'm not sure how much of it actually ends up in the mare.
7137230
Back of cuff estimate: about half goes in.
7137356
Doesn't that mean the effective dick size from her perspective is between 4 and 9 inches?
Perfectly normal human penis size!
7137376
No, because the Shetland is probably 36", and half of that goes in, so its the 18" she wants. Pony on pony, they're more flexible so they can get it all in.
Silver Glow's Journal had me thinking about this fic. I had to go back and check just to make sure the names weren't the same because that would be a really sad way for Silver's relationship to go. Would this kind of thing affect Silver's relationship, or are you going to run with a different anatomy or outcome?
7137875
I'm going on the low end of the scale in Silver Glow's Journal, which puts the average human at about the same size as the average pony. So no issues there.
I'm pretty sure Summer Breeze just committed a crime there.
7274615
I suppose it would depend if she was legally classified as a horse or a human.
Oh man, what google must think of you...
7691183
Oh man, what google must think of you...
Dude, I know.
And this isn't the weirdest thing I've googled, not by a long shot.
5203319
For some reason, that reminds me of a certain joke about an Irishman at a bar...