Ha. I like that Octavia can't comprehend that what Vinyl described is essentially what her unwilling 'boy toy' was subjected to by herself. She's really bad with empathy, maybe she was raised by bad parents, or got some stallion that hurt her bad and made her into clusterfuck she is today?
But really good to see Vinyl being hard and unyelding, not budging because of some sad-looking face and demanding real apology and marefriend she really want to trust. I like that in your fic, ponies acting mature and problems resolving themselves slowly and painfully, like in real life.
This guy said it all far more eloquently than I ever could. So let's just pretend I repeat what he said. Because I'm lazy.
But for a moment there, I thought Vinyl's plan was actually Octy's backstory, and that it was just the same as what she endured. Hence why she refused.
7438461 Indeed. But not uncommon in real life, I'm afraid.
Notice that for all that she treated Finey as a means to her own ends (which admittedly is evil), she actually wasn't doing that to Vinyl, right up until she went into "do everything to avoid admitting guilt" mode. Given that they had a stable relationship with enough trust to do BDSM stuff, I think Octavia might even have managed to apologize properly for wronging Vinyl, if that were all that was at stake. But to admit a wrong that's not in Vinyl's power to forgive, that's unthinkable to her. And so she ends up just digging herself deeper all the way.
Octy just doesn't care about non-Vinyl ponies. Some high level psychopatic shit, she's smart, she's funcioning member of a society, and she simply does not understand why coercing, blackmailing other pony, and then making your marefriend rape said pony is wrong.
Lack of empathy. That's the real psychological horror, blood and gore is one thing, but what people's mind can hold is always scarier than anything.
7438948 No, I don't think she's psychopathic. At least not any more psychopathic than quite a lot of other perfectly normal people. I would point out a specific exchange for why:
Another sigh. “Really, Vinyl, I know you don’t do stallions a lot, but you had sex ed in school, didn’t you? It’s not generally a subtle thing whether they’re enjoying themselves.” “That doesn’t mean they want it!” “Yes it does. Trust me on that.”
I've been told this precise thing for a long time. When I was in high school, I actually had a teacher tell the entire class that it was not possible for a woman to rape a man, because if he didn't want it, he wouldn't be able to respond.
This from a male teacher.
I think that Octavia isn't so much psychopathic as caught up in a very common dichotomy - females can be raped, males can't, because if males don't want sex they can't respond sexually. This is a mindset that you would probably find the *vast* majority of people hold - if males *can* be raped, it's only by men, or *maybe* by women with toys, and even then if they respond then they weren't *really* raped, biology be damned. Same logic that's behind "well, she orgasmed, so it wasn't rape."
There's also the fact that Octavia is probably responding in a way that protects her psyche and self-image, which is something VERY difficult to penetrate.
"Rapists are horrific, irredeemable monsters. I am not a horrific, irredeemable monster. Ergo, I am not a rapist. Ergo, I did not rape that colt, he must have wanted it, because I am not a rapist, because I am not a horrific, irredeemable monster."
The need to declare people as angels or demons, really, is one of the biggest problems we have in general. She's a generally good pony who fucked up BAD. But because she's a generally good pony, she can't accept that she fucked up.
Also, I want to take her AND whoever taught her to domme and put them through a crash course on how badly fucked up they both are.
What I am reading here is on a higher level than some official debates about rape. This is why I love this community. The right mix between Niveau and pointless discussions whether (e.g.) Luna or Fluttershy is best pony
Also, I want to take her AND whoever taught her to domme and put them through a crash course on how badly fucked up they both are.
oh, that made me think of a crazy comic i read on DeviantArt called "the bondage club" (NOT MLP related) and so-called "mistress" Cynthia. she's REALLY fucked up, has ZERO respect for anyone, never heard of safe-words, deserves to be jailed for kidnapping, etc.
Ha. I like that Octavia can't comprehend that what Vinyl described is essentially what her unwilling 'boy toy' was subjected to by herself. She's really bad with empathy, maybe she was raised by bad parents, or got some stallion that hurt her bad and made her into clusterfuck she is today?
But really good to see Vinyl being hard and unyelding, not budging because of some sad-looking face and demanding real apology and marefriend she really want to trust. I like that in your fic, ponies acting mature and problems resolving themselves slowly and painfully, like in real life.
Octavia is a real piece of work.
7438014
This guy said it all far more eloquently than I ever could. So let's just pretend I repeat what he said. Because I'm lazy.
But for a moment there, I thought Vinyl's plan was actually Octy's backstory, and that it was just the same as what she endured. Hence why she refused.
7438461
Indeed. But not uncommon in real life, I'm afraid.
Notice that for all that she treated Finey as a means to her own ends (which admittedly is evil), she actually wasn't doing that to Vinyl, right up until she went into "do everything to avoid admitting guilt" mode. Given that they had a stable relationship with enough trust to do BDSM stuff, I think Octavia might even have managed to apologize properly for wronging Vinyl, if that were all that was at stake. But to admit a wrong that's not in Vinyl's power to forgive, that's unthinkable to her. And so she ends up just digging herself deeper all the way.
7438014
Thank you.
7438943
Octy just doesn't care about non-Vinyl ponies. Some high level psychopatic shit, she's smart, she's funcioning member of a society, and she simply does not understand why coercing, blackmailing other pony, and then making your marefriend rape said pony is wrong.
Lack of empathy. That's the real psychological horror, blood and gore is one thing, but what people's mind can hold is always scarier than anything.
7438948
No, I don't think she's psychopathic. At least not any more psychopathic than quite a lot of other perfectly normal people. I would point out a specific exchange for why:
I've been told this precise thing for a long time. When I was in high school, I actually had a teacher tell the entire class that it was not possible for a woman to rape a man, because if he didn't want it, he wouldn't be able to respond.
This from a male teacher.
I think that Octavia isn't so much psychopathic as caught up in a very common dichotomy - females can be raped, males can't, because if males don't want sex they can't respond sexually. This is a mindset that you would probably find the *vast* majority of people hold - if males *can* be raped, it's only by men, or *maybe* by women with toys, and even then if they respond then they weren't *really* raped, biology be damned. Same logic that's behind "well, she orgasmed, so it wasn't rape."
There's also the fact that Octavia is probably responding in a way that protects her psyche and self-image, which is something VERY difficult to penetrate.
"Rapists are horrific, irredeemable monsters. I am not a horrific, irredeemable monster. Ergo, I am not a rapist. Ergo, I did not rape that colt, he must have wanted it, because I am not a rapist, because I am not a horrific, irredeemable monster."
The need to declare people as angels or demons, really, is one of the biggest problems we have in general. She's a generally good pony who fucked up BAD. But because she's a generally good pony, she can't accept that she fucked up.
Also, I want to take her AND whoever taught her to domme and put them through a crash course on how badly fucked up they both are.
What I am reading here is on a higher level than some official debates about rape. This is why I love this community. The right mix between Niveau and pointless discussions whether (e.g.) Luna or Fluttershy is best pony
7450447
oh, that made me think of a crazy comic i read on DeviantArt called "the bondage club" (NOT MLP related) and so-called "mistress" Cynthia. she's REALLY fucked up, has ZERO respect for anyone, never heard of safe-words, deserves to be jailed for kidnapping, etc.