Just your average Brony who happened upon an idea that might actually turn out to be clever enough for guys to love.
Trixie magically showed off her bad luck at trying to do a show following her humiliation in Ponyville, and it wasn't pretty. But why do some of those ponies we see in those scenes look familiar? Bon Bon remembers. But had to happen, had to happen, right?
Art by Navitaserussirus used with permission. http://navitaserussirus.deviantart.com/art/Page-117-421261410
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I always hated that Bonbon and Carrot Top were always in the Crowds just to humiliate her and your Story makes this even worse (not your fault of course
)
Hope Diamond and Silver will get some good Character Development in the Series
I totally agree with the point that you are (very sarcastically) making here -- that the writers don't seem to be able to wrap their minds around doing anything with Trixie but treat her like a villain, despite the fact that the only actually villainous things she did all involved the Alicorn Amulet -- which is more or less a source of magical corruption like the One Ring of Power. After formally ending her obsession with Twilight at the end of "Magic Duel," the writers don't seem to have been able to think of anything to do with her. In Rainbow Rocks her humanoid analogue is apparently going to be one of the Humane Six's rivals ... because. Just because.
Now, given their track record I'm almost glad they're not doing stuff with Trixie, because given their track record if she showed up on screen again it would be done as some variant of "Mwah-hah-hah! I'm going to express myself in some way that has no connection with you, and you can't stop me!" and every other character taking this as some manifestation of evil which MUST BE STOPPED!!! Just because.
Trixie's arrogant and obnoxious, yes. But none of this adds up to "evil." You actually have to try to inflict harm on the innocent to be evil. The one time we see non-corrupted Trixie in an action scene -- a real action scene, not heckling vs. counter-heckling -- she's trying to save the lives of two colts. That is sort of the opposite of "evil."
Bravo. There is nothing else to say. Bravo.
Twas a good read. twas a great point. And I hope Trixie the best.
Chrysalis might as well be the same thing.
Interesting... The concept of a character knowing the existential force beyond her comprehension, and sharing a conversation with it, was definitely not something I had thought of before.
Take this thumb and star as congratulations for surprising me in a very unique way.
4485131
From what was hinted at for season 5, don't get your hopes up. Though I also think their one-note character status has gotten glaring in a show that focuses so much on character development.
4485538
Mayhaps, but she's an out and out villain, though yes, her existence was pretty much to prove Twilight had been right all along. I wonder how things would have gone in a verse where Twilight managed to convince her friends Cadence was evil, in a timeline where it HAD BEEN all wedding stress instead of an imposter.
4485864
A great story teller shouldn't need strings. Most of us however aren't great story tellers and we need strings.
4485461
Thanks dude!
4485325
Thanks!
4485612
Honored I managed to make something unique.
4485228
I'm happy you were able to read this deeply into the story. I was indeed trying to show some things about Trixie and story telling in general here.
4486046
I guess Gilda was in the same position.... maybe.
4486042 Well that would be interesting. Anyways technically this can be said for any created character. What i wanted to know about her is how she came to be like that...eaning how was her mother? Because as we all know nobidy becomes a villain out of whim. What if she was self conscious of being evil?
4485538
I'll put my two cents in about Trixie vs. Chrysalis.
Trixie is introduced in "Boast Boasters." She behaves somewhat arrogantly and obnoxiously, coming off as a bit of a jerk in the unnecessarily-harsh way she handles hecklers. Mind you, all this occurs as part of a stage act, and she doesn't really hurt anypony, just slightly humiliate them -- in the context of a culture which sees nothing wrong with practical jokes in general.
Then two foolish colts, who admire her act and take it more literally than most of the adults watching probably did, decided to lure a horrendously-dangerous wild animal into town just to see how Trixie deals with it. Despite the fact that these two young idiots cause her great problems, including getting her van smashed (and her van is also her home on the road), she does her best to fight the beast, mostly in an effort to try to save the lives of the two colts who were responsible for the problem.
Then she apparently has a rough time trying to rebuild her act, and works on the Pie Rock Farm at some point. She gets money from somewhere (probably, from using her magic to help on the farm and earning a nice tidy profit for Igneous and Cloudy), and first tries to steal then buy the Alicorn Amulet. The one clearly evil thing she does before donning the Amulet is trying to steal it, and she does this when in the physical presence of the Amulet (and her original plan was obviously purchase, given the huge bag of gold she was carrying).
Under the influence of the Amulet, she then returns to Ponyville and takes over the town by main force, abusing various Ponies in various ways -- though, notably, not killing any of them even by implications (though she does some things which might have killed some -- her morals are noticeably slipping under the Amulet's influence). She beats Twilight Sparkle once in a magic duel and then Twilight Sparkle returns and beats her in the rematch, getting her to put down the Amulet.
After being free of the Amulet a while, Trixie helps with the pyrotechnics at a festival and straight-out thanks Twilight for saving her from the influence of the artifact. We then see her in the comic book series as a more or less sympathetic background character, who fights in defense of the town against the attack of the Night Shadows, and in a later story arc is visible at a festival doing her magic show.
In contrast, Queen Chrysalis launches an unprovoked invasion of Equestria, seizing the capital by a strategy which involves pretty much raping Shining Armor, with the declared intent of enslaving at least the population of Canterlot and by implication the whole kingdom. She laughs maniacally about how much she despises the Ponies and everything they hold dear, and how much she is enjoying the conquest of their Realm.
In the comic book series, she attacks Ponyville specifically to draw out Twilight Sparkle and her friends. Her tactic involves capturing the Cutie Mark Crusaders and holding them hostage. She's already destroyed a small city-state of friendly beings who were perfectly willing to give her love -- she prefers conquest and rape to co-existence and friendship.
Now the argument can be made that she was only looking for food for her people. Perhaps, but what the Changelings subsist upon is love, and there are much better ways to get that than overt conquest. Stealthy parasitism or open symbiosis both suggest themselves as saner and less destructive options.
The fact that the Changelings are at most poorly-known myths seriously implies that -- before Chyrsalis got her brain-storm -- they were as a race choosing "stealthy parasitism," with perhaps some individuals entering into some forms of symbiotic relationships with other beings. Chrysalis appears to be moved by the desire to dominate and destroy more than by survival.
(I postulate that Chrysalis needs a lot of energy for some very dark magical projects. Alex Warlorn has her be moved by deep desires stemming from her fundamental origin. The point is, we both see her as sadistic because she acts that way in canon, and neither of these are what I'd call anything but villainous motivations).
We don't see Trixie as a villain because she never actually does anything villainous save when under obvious external corruptive influences. Being a bit of a jerk isn't the same as being evil. By contrast we see Chrysalis as a villain because she acts villainously whenever she's on stage. Being evil isn't the same as being just a bit of a jerk.
4486094
Gilda's nastier than Trixie, but Gilda doesn't seem to be outright evil. As far as I can see, Gilda was immature and driven by what looked like some sort of "schoolgirl crush" on Rainbow Dash.
4486031
There was something hinted at for Season 5? Where?
4486368 You're missing the point... i was never going for a comparison of how evil these two are... i was going on on how these two share a similarity both as being tools for Twilight's growth... as well as any villain past Nightmare Moon and perhaps Discord... why? Because those two actually did something other than being evil But still in the episodes villains are not evil they usually have to do something with Twilight e.g. Nightmare Night with Luna and Discord with Cadence/Twilight.
4487263
Chrysalis is not as powerful as was Nightmare Moon, let alone Discord, but she's more evil, from what I could see based on her behavior. Which is, admittedly, just one canon episode and one semi-canon story arc. Chrysalis, armed with either of their powers, would be far more destructive -- unlike Nightmare Moon, she doesn't have any submerged good side that I can detect and Chrysalis seems much more single-mindedly sadistic than Discord.
But yes, I do see your point about these characters serving as foils for Twilight Sparkle. Well, she's the protagonist, after all.
4487388 Your measurements of their power is in any case at least innacurate. Individually perhaps yes, but with her army? She could rival them...
The fact that we don't see a good side is because it simply hasn't been expressed. In any case she stayed on screen herself for less than half an episode... and to me she is a conqueror. Conquerors are neutral in history or are mostly judged by how they behaved on the conquered... Example is that the Turks were not always seen as evil conquerors until the Othoman Empire started decaying. Yes because of how she treated them she is evil... but she is not the common villain that has "minions" instead she has as she says "subjects".
We do not know whether having love is imperative to their survival or if it is a power source. The episode suggests that it likely is BOTH.
In any case i haven't read any stories of the author concerning Chrysalis but it is likely that she may be in a same position as the orcs of Lord of the Rings meaning that as the writer of LotR said "If they were given a different influence they might have been better beeings." Thus Chrysalis in many fics has been seen of becoming a better changeling if given better influence. She is not a demon or an incarnation of evil... she is mortal and as such could go either way. Nightmare Moon vanished and didn't just leave Luna because she was just that... an incarnation of pure jealousy envy and hatred.
Almost no characterization is given to villains most of the time besides a short exposition. We see them as their actions... and that's kind of understandable... but i cannot be certain of Queen Chrysalis' character thus it grants me flexibility in my own characterization of her. What would be awesome is if Chrysalis was self-consious to what she did but in any case i am derailing.
Point is when we have two-parters they almost always focus on Twilight... and since Twilight's progress means the progress of the whole FiM storyline FiM becomes Twilight-centric tossing the villains to the creative dumpster. As well as antagonists... Trixie is an antagonist as is Gilda, Lightning Dust. To see antagonists as lesser villains is wrong. Antagonists are given slightly more attention that villains but still suffer the same fate... dumpster at the end of the episode.
4486368
" mostly in an effort to try to save the lives of the two colts who were responsible for the problem."
Or to save face.
"and first tries to steal then buy the Alicorn Amulet."
try to steal then buy?
4486473
On a little message by one of the voice actors after getting the script, I don't remember where.
4486377
Who was worse is up for debate. Yes, Gilda was possessive of Dash, but I don't think she was 'into' her.
4488407
Mixed motives, anyway. But not villainous. Really, a lot of ponies would have just run and let Snips and Snails get squished. Not so much because they would have wanted them to get squished, but because Trixie was putting herself at considerable risk trying to save them. She might have gotten killed if Twilight Sparkle hadn't intervened.
The sequence is interesting.
Trixie walks into the magic shop. She obviously expects to see somepony there and purchase the Amulet from them. When she sees nopony there, she clearly considers stealing the Amulet. Then the proprietor shows up and she buys it instead, with a large bag of money.
We don't see any indication in "Boast Busters" -- or the comic series -- that Trixie is normally a thief. So the obvious conclusion is that the near presence of the Amulet is starting to corrupt her already. The Ring does something similar to Smeagol -- he murders his best friend and cousin Deagol to get the Ring, it starts corrupting him before he's even touched it.
It's hard to tell based on the evidence. Gilda was so possessive of Rainbow Dash as a friend that it verged on romantic jealousy. I think that on Gilda's side at least this was a Romantic Friendship. I don't think they were actually lovers, though.
4488845
The NOVELS had Gilda and Trixie team up as cliche baddies, with Gilda APPROVING when Twilight thinks that she NEED TO act more aloof and royal with her new station. I don't care much for it given how it IS OOC for Trixie IMHO. And Gilda stealing an apple isn't the same thing as being an out and out criminal.
4488413
Oh, to bad, but still thanks
4489114
I agree. Her Flanderization IMHO has reached the point where it's actually lowering the quality of the show. I GET she's supposed to be a spoiled bully, even Nelson on the Simpsons got some personality after they played through the 'one note bully' instead of just making him worse and worse.
Also the fact Diamond Tiara NEVER LEARNS creates the feeling that bad people NEVER CHANGE, and thus there is no POINT in TRYING to get them to change their behavior, she's a flesh and blood pony rather than a chaos god.
4489196
Well like I already said in a Deviantart Comment: That's one of the Reasons why I consider your POV Series better than Canon
4489196
Yeah, treating Diamond Tiara as pure evil really bothers me. She's basically just a young girl in human terms. Maybe into adolescence by now. And we never see her do anything or express any philosophy that's really evil -- she's just a bitchy snob. Okay, so she's mean to Scootaloo. That's nasty of her, but she doesn't try to physically harm her. Or steal from her, or anything at all criminal. She says mean things to her, that's all.
Lots of Humans worse than Diamond Tiara at 14 grow up to be decent adults.
4488913
I didn't know that the novels did this. That is bad writing. I could write Trixie as an antagonist to a sympathetic character while keeping her basic moral integrity. Given Trixie's prickly obnoxiousness it would be easy -- all we'd need would be one misunderstanding.
Nice metainterpretation of the non-mains as tools to advance the 'important' ponies. And nice to see Bon Bon struggling with the role and breaking free eventually.
Sadly, I think fanon interpretation is beginning to overwhelm Trixie. For instance, the idea that she's ponysona non grata throughout Equestria after the Ursa incident, which really clashes with the generally idealistic mindset of most ponies. My interpretation is that she seriously overestimated the damage after a few incidents turned sour and is just obsessing over Twilight as her windmill enemy. (It was a plot point in my story Role Reversal, where Twilight feels this way.) But in so many stories she's outright hated and abused, sometimes with the author even trying to establish the treatment as morally correct.
Depending on how canonical one consider the comics, Trixie's at least getting basic respect and is generally welcome in public, given that she was putting on a show in Zen and the Art of Gazebo Repair. We'll get more canon fodder with the upcoming comics, and I for one look forward to it. It'll be interesting to see how it goes.
I for one do not consider that book canon, though.
4486031 I liked this story on DA and I like it here. I also enjoy the idea of poor Trixie getting a break from someone that isn't 'in the neck'.
And with DT and Silver Spoon, concerning the news you mentioned *sigh*
Let's hope that something gets done with them that gives them some character development,
4490030
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Thank you. I just feel Trixie is too proud to work at a rock farm unless it REALLY WAS the only options she had left.
4493384 At least the options she thought she had left.
And it strikes me that she'd probably prefer it over a few options that would be even worse to her. Consider, for instance, her working as a waitress. Everypony can see her and see how far she's fallen and have ample opportunity to mock her for it every day. At least on the farm she only had to deal with a few dour ponies who didn't care enough about her past to say anything.
4495073
Interesting, and fits with Trixie's character.
I often wonder if the MLP writers, upon an adult MLP fanbase forming and Trixie getting a ludicrous amount fans, decided they needed to pigeonhole Trixie into flat-out villainhood. Boast Busters is a fun episode, but the whole Aesop falls apart under critical examination, and some character actions like Twilight saying she hopes Trixie 'learns her lesson' at the end of the episode are flat-out ridiculous. When all your viewers are little girls and some little boys, you don't have to worry about analysis, but when there are lots of adult fans, you DO. Thus along came Magic Duel, where Trixie was the clear bad mare. Of course, they wave it off as being the Amulet that made her do it, but still.
That makes this a rather interesting story, where the hand of the narrative comes down hard during the episodes to set-up each scene, and forces the background ponies into their roles, rather than deviate to do what they want to do. Since Trixie is no longer relevant to Twilight's journey to becoming a Princess, that means Bon Bon can find Trixie and give her strength and support now.
6713773
I think the episode still has its points (Trixie being a load mouth telling tall tales as if they were actual events, and refusing to admit that Twilight was a better mage, and taking too much pleasure in her act humiliating the others as part of her show)... but the fact Trixie's home was destroyed and she lost everything she owned for Snips and Snails doing something clearly crazy...
Yeah, the episode does have bugs. And this was built around protagonist centered morality. Thank you very much for the comments!