- Member Since 7th Mar, 2012
- offline last seen 1 hour ago
Genjen
I'm just a guy that likes ponies. I'm a fan of herd world building stories though not so much when they're just harem scenarios. I've also acted as an editor for a couple stories. How goes it?
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Whelp. I like it and hate when things get thumbed down without explanation.
Ya, I'm not sure what that was about. That's the kind of reception you'd expect for a grammatical nightmare or troll fic. I could understand if someone said it was just boring, but it was just auto thumbs down and walk away. Haha, ah well.
Well, I don't know what other people's opinions are, but I at least would be willing to read this. It seems of reasonable quality, and is in "That framework", of probable humans in Equestria who have no idea what is going on, and tend to conclude that their memories are inaccurate.
Almost passed this fic up because of the rating and the romance tag, but I've read and enjoyed two other stories with a similar premise that I decided to give it a chance. I'm glad I did as this seems interesting. Weird that you've got such a bad rating on your story, I've seen many worse stories that are more popular than this. Other than the two grammatical errors in the antepenultimate sentence, a misspelled Celestia and a forgotten apostrophe in stallion's, I can't see anything wrong with this.
I do have one question, is John Smith actually his name?
3825703
Thanks for giving it a shot, and I'm glad you found it interesting. As to the low rating, my assumption is that some people saw the mention of herds, and then the romance tag, and assumed it was harem fic rather than me exploring a bit of world building around the idea of a sapient pony society. Ponies as animals have herds with a lead mare so I wanted to explore how that might pan out in a functioning culture of sapient ponies with that sort of background.
John and Smith are two extremely common names so I went with that for the protagonist. It's also a bit of an ironic twist too since "John Smith" is known as a "placeholder name." Since he's sure he's crazy, and probably doubts even his real name, he's using this as a placeholder till his real identity is found.
cdn3.tnwcdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2012/01/obama-not-bad-campaign-poster.jpg
I'm not getting the downvotes either. Might be the Romance and Mature tags coupled (no pun intended) with your only other story being a clopfic.
I myself haven't read a psychology-based fic from anything other than the protagonist's POV so this is an interesting angle for me. Alongside Mr. John Smith's seemingly ironclad logical approach to this situation.
It'll be intriguing to see how this pans out if you are planning on continuing this, which I certainly am hoping you will.
4038527
Well thanks, I appreciated hearing that. I have 2500 words of the next chapter done and have started working on it again. So, yes, it will be continued.
Well, i like it, a little slow.
I wish more stories would put a focus on the whole 'matriarchy society' thing and be a good story, like this one. If I had a problem with it though, it would be that his name (or the name he remembers, anyway) is John Smith. It is actively distracting and impaired my sense of disbelief. Even if you have a solid reason for it down the line, the readers won't know that.
I'm also pretty certain that was why there was a bunch of immediate downvotes; they just read the description and saw 'John Smith' and downvoted right then and there. Luckily, there's only currently one chapter, so it would be easy for you and us readers to adapt as there isn't much to adapt to yet.
In any case, I eagerly await the next chapter!
4166764
I hadn't considered the name John Smith breaching someones suspended disbelief actually. There are actually 45,000 John Smiths in the US (possibly more), so I figured it'd be fine. That, and it not being their actual name. Oh well, no where to go but forward now. Thanks for the heads up and I'm glad you found this interesting!
I look forward to reading more of this. Did you intend Happy Days to come off as a little bit condescending?
This story was mentioned in passing in the comments of another story, so I decided to give it a shot. It looks interesting so far, but there's little to base that on beyond the initial impression.
3826048 It makes sense as a placeholder. At least you didn't go with Anon/Anonymous.
I would suggest that, in story, he explain that it's a placeholder name from his "false" memories and fish for an equivalent. Since his entire approach appears to be "I must be crazy, none of what I remember can possibly be real," it would be both fitting and help explain the apparent oddity. Even if they choose not to rename him, it gives them (and us!) an even better understanding of his situation.
This story deserves more exposure. There may not be a whole lot of it yet but what there is would have made for a great one-shot all on its own. Hopefully future updates will attract more readers as writing style, characters and overall setting are superb.
You may also want to add Human to the story's tags, as it technically still applies.
Seems good. Will follow.
It's alive.
Firstly, I'm just glad to see this updating. Not that I want to be demanding or anything, I'm simply happy to see that you're pressing ahead with it.
Secondly, I think this chapter suffers from an overdose of ponies standing around and discussing things. As you say, they're all polite and professional mares, which only exacerbates the problem. Overall I liked it, but I do think it's something to be aware of in future.
And lastly, if you want to get into Terry Pratchett, I find that Men at Arms makes a good first book of his to read.
Nice to see this one update. I'd almost given up hope to see more of it. I agree with 4303928 and your own opinion concerning the dialogue in this chapter. This was not perfect, though not just because of the similarity in character between two doctors and one schoolar. Twilight's internal train of thought got rather tiresome to follow at times, which may be in-character but still doesn't make the best reading. In contrast, every time John spoke up felt almost refreshing. His role in this chapter was also rather limited. I expected him to cause a small scene or at least voice some displeasure with the idea of an escort and what it implies but his respones stayed muted up until the later part of the hospital scene.
Overall this chapter was good, especially the highlighted social norms of pony society. It could have done with something to spice it up in the middle, though. The second half of the examination at the end did just that but came in too late to what amounted to the characters sitting in a waiting room and talking for the most part or reading Twilight's tought process. A chance encounter on the way to the hospital or the male nurse returning and interacting with John might have done the trick. All said I still liked it and am looking forward to whatever comes next.
4304336 4303928
Thanks for the feed back, it's much appreciated! I was worried about this being a dialogue/exposition heavy chapter and it looks like I was right to worry. I'll do my best to not repeat this mistake again.
The dispute/questioning of Equestria's balance on gender equality will be coming up next. I felt from John's perspective he'd be worried about how a possibly insane person talking about the demerits and ethical pit falls of gender inequality could poison the subject overall. So, he was mostly quiet this chapter since he was deep in thought of how he should approach the subject in a way to get results and how to do so without possibly insulting the ponies that are helping him.
4304403 Your reasoning behind John staying quiet is sound. A quick look back showed that while he didn't voice his displeasure with the escort business he did grimace at the idea of it. Still, a few more gestures from him and indeed Twilight and Happy Days wouldn't have hurt. In John's case opening his mouth but closing it again without speaking or looking into the distance deep in thought might have fit.
Just a short one before the next chapter comes out. Wanted to introduce a couple ideas using Just Fine's POV. I'm already working on the next one and it'll involve a walk through the park discussing how to approach John's situation, meeting a roommate and a point blank talk about apparent gender disparity.
4330109
Now this update came around quite a bit sooner than I expected. Not that I mind. Smaller but frequent updates are very much welcome. The content of this chapter was again very interesting and what you have planned for the next sounds even better, especially that conversation about gender disparity and John getting a roommate.
I spotted two sentences that looked a wee bit odd while reading.
4330232
Ah whoops. I edited both those sentences on my final comb through and it looks like I goofed it up. Thanks for pointing them out! I'm 2k into the next chapter so I'm hoping to have it out sometime tomorrow.
You caught something that evaded my own thing but that I realized too late to make use of - the lack of digested waste. No spoilers but any new body ought to have empty bowels and curse my lack of foresight! EXCELLENT forward thinking Genjen! Also, I like how John is starting to show more of a personality. Super polite but with a sarcastic streak. Also, I'm wondering
ifwhen you're going to get to how his new biology affects his mental processes.Something to note: the descriptions of the magazines and such are very nice and add a ton to the world building but they seem to be crammed a bit together. It throws the flow off just a tad. I would space them out a bit more across a few chapters or have them in a discussion of magazines or something (John asking about 'what the deal with X' is) rather than having the doctor get distracted in her internal monologue by a stack of magazines. Some of it fits - the stallion pin-up in EG, the Beta mare magazine about foals - but some of it seems a bit of a digression. You tie most of it up well into the situation - props on that, some of it seemed a bit off topic but you made it all fit - it just seems a bit info dumpy. I dunno.
I might be reading too much into things.
4333290
No, no you're totally right. I've never seen a story explore the simple idea of cultural rags that the ponies would read and ended up going over board this chapter. I was introducing the idea since he's going to bring up the views expressed in the Lead Mare Monthly one next chapter when he confronts Happy about stallions etc. I'll try to curb the exposition dumps next time to make it flow more naturally over the course of the story instead.
With the day winding down and feeling more comfortable in a relatively familiar setting of a hospital he was starting to come out of his shell of social professionalism. You'll see more of that here next too once he wakes up the next day with nothing new happening. Consistency, even consistent madness, is important after all. As for the biology, it'll start cropping up a little next time, but mostly the chapters after that once he starts to try and "acclimate" while wandering about freely.
Thanks for the advice and the praise man
4304403
Is he really so certain that gender inequality is bad? Surely if all of his memories are suspect then his politics must be suspect as well.
Though I could buy western liberalism being impervious to such dismissal, even by someone with enough mental fortitude to bite the crazy bullet. It's a powerful belief cluster.
What's that? Is it the sound of two different cultures about to clash? The ensuing trainwreck shall be glorious, and I will watch it with morbid fascination
You have gained my attention
Hope you update soon 
You miss spelled "thought"
Missing a B
wasn't her thing
Welp, I've now read this through for the third time, and it is just as good as ever.
4680916
Oi, sorry about that. I actually have 2500+ words for the next chapter written up since I posted the third chapter, just had some real drama drop in my life that left me unmotivated to write for some time now. Thanks for the corrections ya posted, I already did the fixes. I'm glad too that you find it so enjoyable, so thanks for the kind words.
4681056
That's perfectly understandable, I personally haven't updated my one story in over a year at this point. I look forward to more of your story at some point in the future.
Interesting xenofictional take on the Ponies. I've thought about their culture a lot myself -- I pegged them as being a milder matriarchy than you have, and I assume a male:female ratio closer to 3:5, so they tend to be monogamous or mildly polygynous rather than having the female-herd with auxiliary male female-dominated polygyny you seem to be describing here. I also think that the sexual selection game would still feature choosier mares than stallions, simply because mares still carry the children. You might want to check some of my stories and my blog out.
4706964
"female-herd with auxiliary male female-dominated polygyny" if this means herds are varying sizes from 3-10 with a female lead with a male or two, then that is what I was going for yes! I'm basing my story off the the idea of "If biological ponies/horses were in a world of magic and gained sapience, what would they're personal lives be like given the Equestrian setting?" I combined the herd size of horses with the female/male ration we saw in the first couple seasons along with the very few strong male leads that were around with each leadership position almost exclusively being female. So, pseudo real life ideas clashing with fantasy presentation.
I think rather than choosier females based on what males they're interested, it's more choosier females with whom they'd like to herd with. What's more, mares being choosey about what mare they'd feel comfortable and happy taking the lead from, their alpha/lead mare essentially. It's not some archaic system, but there's still always a mare each herd member takes their cues from, the pony that is their rock with decisive decision making and leadership. It'll be complicated and yet not complicated at all in a way. I hope I can properly convey it down the line.
You've written a lot of stories, I'm impressed. Which ones display your social world building writing exactly? I read through all the summaries and it wasn't immediately obvious.
4708203
Oh yes, I noticed what you did -- it was well-done, too.
My Equestrian culture is much more similar to that of the modern Anglo-American West c. 1900-1920 but gender-flipped in terms of politics: in other words it's a mild matriarchy (females and especially mothers dominate, but males are also socially-important); economically it's a bit different as the split is that females tend to do work requiring intelligence while males tend to do work requiring strength; also females tend to do "town" work while males do "country" work.
The reason is that, until a century or two ago (depending on wealth and thus ability to afford the medicine) mares used to unavoidably go into estrus every 21 days, with both their own sexual arousal and the production of pheromones which would sexually-arouse males. Estrus lasts for 3 days.
The social effects were simple. For 3 out of 21 days a female was distracted and could not trust her own romantic decisions, hence avoided making these decisions or (really) any important decisions. And, for 21 out of 21 days, any male in the presence of any large numbers females (who would, remember, have different cycles) was distracted and could not trust his own romantic decisions, hence avoided making these decisions or (really) any important decisions.
Consequently, when males did important work they did so only out of town and in all-male groups. And there was no way that stallions could be trusted with important leadership positions, since they would be distracted from decision-making the moment that the scent of a mare in estrus wafted by.
This distraction is not absolute, mind you. The Ponies are more than intelligent enough to override it where an important and potentially life-changing decision such as taking a new mate is concerned. The human equivalent would be if, one-seventh of the time, any particular woman (from a male perspective) was suddenly wearing gaudy and erotically-arousing clothing, and any man in the course of his day thus would be exposed to such women. While trying to make decisions.
What changed was the development of estrus suppressors. These are not true contraceptives (though they do reduce fertility). What they do is to suppress the external signs of estrus. Over the last two centuries they have become cheaper, safer and more effective; now they are cheap enough for everypony to easily afford, and consequently it is considered a sign of a low and trashy mare not to use them unless she is actually trying to get pregnant. The social effect has been a gradual increase in the social importance of stallions, to the point that now stallions are entering fields once traditionally reserved for mares -- business direction, politics, and the profession.
The sexual game still and always has involved stallions being choosier than mares because mares get pregnant and stallions don't. With a nearly 1:1 male to female ratio (it's more like 3:5 but the shortfall is because stallions tend to do more dangerous work and hence are less likely to live into old age) mating and marriage are at least serially monogamous (sometimes actually monogamous, for the Ponies are very idealistic and sentimental where Love is concerned).
The old style female sedentary and male mobile herds still exist but only as ghosts of themselves in the tendency of Ponies to form very strong same-sex friendship groups -- we would call them nakama -- of which, of course, the Mane Six is a very good example -- and in the tendency of the female herds to be more physically sedentary.
In modern Equestria, morals could best be described as analogous to Late-Victorian to Jazz Age by modern Western standards, with the origins of the behavior being different. The reason for sexual restraint is that Love and Friendship are deemed sacred, and hence not to be sullied with casual motives. These morals are not practiced perfectly, any more than they were in the actual Victorian through Jazz Age: the Ponies tend to be less hypocritical about it than we were. Two particular differences are that the Ponies are less averse to premarital cohabitation than were humans in the equivalent era, and that homosexual love is considered perfectly respectable (though it is still a minority orientation for the obvious biological reasons). There is a Fast Set that scorns all of the above, and which (like Fast Sets in most times and places) is mostly about rich Ponies finding gullible less-rich Ponies to abuse -- but perhaps I am being cynical?
This stuff is sprinkled through my stories, I particularly recommend A Robust Solution for the male-female mating game, Pinkie Sense and Sensibility (though this is woefully incomplete) and Divine Jealousy and the Voice of Reason. Several of my essays are mcuh more relevant, look at the main Blog Essay List, particularly under Culture.
Incidentally, I'm not mostly writing about normal Ponies. The Mane Six and their friends tend to be highly unusual examples of their culture, though their assumptions about love and live are not all that abnormal.
4708203
Some particularly-relevant essays are Matriarchy (part I and part II) -- part I discusses why I don't write this as either a Gad This Is Awful or a Happy New Age Counterculture Hippie Flowers kind of matriarchy, and part II gets into the meat of marriage and inheritance customs; "Class Structure of Equestria" which discusses Equestrian society in general and where the Mane Six fit in both before and after they became
the Sailor ScoutsCelestia's Champions. Specific to sexuality are "Why I Cannot Believe in a Free-Love Equestria" which discusses the ample canon evidence why it is very improbable that Equestria is an Everypony Has Lots of Sex Free-Love society, and why it's actually more likely to be a somewhat prudish one by our standards and "Country Courtship" which discusses how the most traditionally-minded Earth Ponies fall in love and marry (I wrote it because I was writing the yet-unpublished third chapter of Pinkie Sense and Sensibility about the courtship of Igneous Rock and Cloudy Quartz Pie -- Pinkie's stepfather and mother, but it would also apply to most rural or small-town Ponies in my world).A lot of my stories touch briefly on Pony romantic and sexual customs, because it's part of character and drama. Some do so in some very strange ways because I tend to focus on rather abnormal Ponies (as is inevitable since these are heroes).
For instance, Trixie Lulamoon's single sexual encounter (of her entire life up to age 20) with Piercing Gaze (who is 40 and quite experienced) and their year-long obsession with one another until the situation is resolved, is not how Ponies normally court in modern Equestria (it does bear resemblance to a gender-flipped version of the Time of Extermination, with Piercing sedentary and Trixie nomadic). Or Pinkie's extended neoteny, with her first realizing that there's more to sex than party kissing games at age 23 when she meets Cheese Sandwich, is not the normal path of maturation. These are very odd mares.
This has potential to be an interesting take on a tired premise. Don't disappoint me.
A very interesting & well-written story that raises some intriguing questions. In particular, I'm wondering just how John will react when he learns more about the Herd/Matriarchy societal structure. He freely admits that his memories of a different structure are false, but he still shows at a mild aversion to conforming to the status quo.
It does seem to be pretty toned down in terms of not conforming to it though. During the walk to the hospital, it's stated that it's 'polite' for Mares to walk in front of the Stallion, but not 'required' & Twilight & Happy do put the convention aside for his comfort. I wonder if that was just a one-off though. Will part of his treatment be trying to get him to conform to the Societal expectations for Stallion's?
How will John react to that? If he wants to 'get better' then will he try to fit in with how Stallion's are supposed to conduct themselves in this society, or will certain social norms (such as the casual way that Stallion's 'show themselves off') be too much for him to stomach? Are there likely to be any more Societal Pitfalls for John to face that haven't been shown yet?
I look forward to finding out.
4708761
Sorry about not replying sooner. I got your comment when my brother moved in and my nephew is visiting with hm for a few weeks so it's been pretty hectic. I read it that day but forgot to reply.
That is a whole lot of essays! I can't say I'm looking forward to getting through them all (Nothing personal, it's just that I worked as an English tutor at a college for three years so I always associate essays with work now). I'll let you know in the comments on those essays my thoughts. Sorry if it takes me awhile to work (see?) my way through them. I will say here to folks that from what I've seen they make for some interesting reading and are well worth a look through if they're interested.
If I was going off actual birth rates of horses/ponies I can see myself easily going with the very world you so thoroughly described (seriously, well thought out. I'm impressed). But since I was mixing the ratio's of herd sizes in horses, and the dilapidated ratio of males to females in the first couple seasons of the show I ended up going a different route. In this case, since females are the leaders, males only really provided physical protection in the form of acting as the warriors. Since moving away from the archaic nomadic days having only male armies would be disastrous (and it was! several times) so females slowly but surely took up the main military as well.
This leaves males with less social and militaristic power as now they don't have a major foot hold in either spectrum rather than just the one. So it's more like they lack a lot of social capital now. Though they aren't mistreated by any measure they are definitely out numbered which has an effect in social life since there would be, more often than not, people convincing a stallion towards the mare point of interest than a stallions point of interest. It's just sheer numbers at that point. If you grow up with one dad, four mothers and five sisters then even if you have a brother, you're hearing nine females say their opinions compared to only two males. Now, obviously mares will differ in opinion at times as it's not like they all have the same personality and work like a hive mind or something equally ridiculous. But if there's a clear interest in one thing versus another based around gender bias that's going to bias what you hear. Spread this across an entire society then have generation upon generation pass and you have yourself a system of subtle gender bias just through social means more than anything systemic.
As for herd life, since there's a lead mare the stallion(s) serve an important role in any herd but are also not the most important aspect as the herd doesn't form around them. I'm taking the theme of harmony - which I'll be writing as a form of religion for the ponies based around spiritual ideals or tenents they seek or follow in life - and depicting that as the most important aspect when selecting herd mates. Rather than having the best herd mates - in either social status, physical attributes, or talents - the ponies instead typically look for those they can "harmonize" the best with. What "harmonizing" means is up for interpretation by individuals of course. Most assume it's love, compatibility, and lasting friendship but it can vary.
Anywho, thanks again for your comment and interest! It may take me awhile to get motivated to read through all that material, but I will get to it eventually. Sorry again for the late reply after you put so much effort into you posts last week. Apparently I'm some kind of hero to my nephew since I play games a bunch so he's been rather attached to me the last week. Not used to being the center of attention for a kid like that, kinda wears on you pretty quick. He's at that stage where they ask you something every minute.
4733750
I'm glad I managed to so raptly catch your attention! I was planning for a lot of your musings to be addressed in this next chapter but I ended up having other stuff happen so the sit down conversation between John and Happy is coming up after this next one. My comment to another reader below this one might prove interesting if you're curious about some of the basics of how the gender equality is set up in grandiose sense. As I say there, it's more of a social imbalance than a systemic one. So more of a "kill you with kindness" than a "the nail that sticks out is hit the hardest." Except, instead of "killing" the stallion, it's more like a mother's hoof on their shoulder while she says "We just want you to be happy. Don't you want to be happy?"
As for John, he's fairly open minded and accommodating, but he's also not a push over.
4716414
I can't help but hear this comment in Darth Vader's voice.
"Don't fail me again...Author. "
I got to say that this is one interesting story. I enjoy seeing how John acts like a rational guy, as opposed to the panicky guys who end up like Bruce from "Oh to be old again", when he ends up transformed into a stallion, thus giving this fic quite a refreshing feel. The way you portray the matriarchal society, which involves herds led by mares, is impressive and your characterization of Twilight and Rarity is pretty original as they both show an appreciation of romance from herds yet retain most of their personalities from the canon. Anyhow, I hope the next chapter comes soon as this is a great story.
Not sure about Midday myself, but the rest seems reasonable. It sounds too much like mid-day, or however you spell it, which corresponds to roughly noon. Hence it might be slightly confusing to some people.
Glad to see this story continued. So few stories of this type.
4772226
I'd read plenty of stories where folks felt they were insane humans imagining these things but couldn't think of any where the person thought they were an insane pony that imagined their memories so I thought I'd take a stab at it. I figured doing it outside their perception would make world building easier too.
As for Minalkra's OtbOA, I feel like we're portraying two characters taking the situation badly in polar opposite ways. John is throwing all his memories under the bus in a bought of logic while Bruce clings to his with a fervent obsession. What's more, John is an adult pony with all the new brain chemistry urges that comes with it while Bruce is a child pony with all the impulse control that comes with that (almost none). Also, Bruce is from an earth with the show and John isn't. I've enjoyed talking with Minalkra about herd worlds and such for a long time and making a seemingly polar opposite character setup grabbed my attention and I started rolling with it.
Anywho, thanks for the kind words and I'm glad you've enjoyed it so.
4772254
That's a good and fair point to make about Midday. I was brainstorming some reasonable/MLP-esque day names and just came up with those. I'd be fine with changing it if something else comes up, or I'll just leave it alone specifically for the confusion. English is rife with words that have multiple different meanings and that could be one of them for the ponies.
Pine seems nice but he is dumb as rocks. I hope all stallions aren't quite so malleable.
4754020
I was thinking more along the lines of GlaDOS in the Portal 2 multiplayer trailer.
"Don't disappoint me... or I'll make you wish you could die."
4772352
Oh, looks like I forgot to put that in the Author's note. I originally had a comment in there to alleviate any fears that the first stallion we see being a clueless guy was a precursor to them all being that way. I've been disappointed in stories that did that in the past myself so I understand. So here we go:
Author Note edit:
P.P.S: I realize Pine is clueless. I tried really hard to write him like that (it wasn't easy). But no, very few stallions are like that, it's just Pine's personality and how he ended up getting raised. Just like you wouldn't expect every mare to have the same personality etc. etc.
4772389
He was raised to be a twit? That's funny.
I enjoyed the chapter though it seemed a bit short on world building. Keep up the good work!
4772339
I think the other stories I've seen are "Wish Upon a Supernova" and "M'you've gotta be kidding me"
The second one however is questionable considering it is part of the "Chess game of the Gods" universe, and hence can't be considered serious.
The other type of stories are those that are Ponies (or not), believe themselves to have been human, but are either entirely unable to communicate it (speech Geas) or are not believed in that case. "The Triumvirate", "Oh To Be Old Again" , and "Whiteout" qualify I think.
There are also a handful of others, like "Solitary Pinion", "Cog in the Machine" and "Orchestrated Chaos".
These stories, in general, have reasons that prevent any real resolution of that issue, because of either a language barrier or lack of freedom.
"My Life, Recreated" is similar, but it is more to do with him wanting to avoid timeline alterations, which does cause conflict.
I like the conflict that occurs when you have a person placed in a foreign (or known as fiction) setting, and they actually have serious trouble, for sane reasons, rather than story-book reasons. That is, Lack of knowledge of area, or wrong/watered down knowledge, and, in the case of having knoweldge, the whole knowing everything about the characters thing. That and timetravel, both of which cause the obvious "Must be a spy" assumption.
The other thing is that that person tends to lack as much freedom as many self-insert-like characters tend to have. (Self insert not being an insult. It is loosely accurate as a genre description)