Country Courtship · 1:41pm Jul 11th, 2014
Introduction
A lot of writing about Pony courtship seems to assume customs very similar to those of the early 21st-century West, or at least the early 20th-century West. The former is most nearly true of the Fast Set; the latter of most urban Ponies. However, in the world of farmsteads and small towns in which most of the Old Families of Ponyville, and pretty nearly everypony in South-Dunnich and Nickerlite live, there are older customs, ones dating back many centuries before the Industrial Revolution, which were formed as the present-day, peaceful Equestria coalesced out of the warring principalities of the Age of Thrones and the period of civil wars ended (at least in central and northeastern Equestria). These are the forms of romantic behavior between decent younger mares and stallions sometimes called "country courtship" -- most notably with regard to the Mane Six, this would be how Pinkie Pie and especially Applejack were raised, and would expect to be courted; and while Rarity has learned the more sophisticated urban customs of Fillydelphia, Canterlot and Manehattan, it's not too far from the back of her mind either when evaluating male behavior towards herself.
Meeting
In rural or small-town life, the chances are very great that the prospective couple has known one another for many years, often from childhood. They may be neighbors, and almost certainly will have attended the small, generally one-room schoolhouses together. If not of the same age cohort, they will have seen one another about town. There will be webworks of families and friendships connecting, or conversely rifts of feuds and enmities dividing, the two Ponies.
When the two Ponies are not previously acquainted (quite possible because Ponies move around freely through Equestria) some sort of introduction is usually required to begin the acquaintance. This may be between common family members or mutual friends; it may also be a formal or semi-formal introduction such as is usually proffered at parties, socials and dances. One of the functions of such events is to allow unacquainted strangers to mix respectably and get to know one another; hence it is normal to approach strangers under these circumstances.
Acquaintance
The next stage in a country courtship (or for that matter friendship) would be acquaintance. This would involve the twain getting to know one another and deciding whether or not they want to be friends. This may be a very quick stage, as some Ponies instinctively like one another upon first meeting -- a good (non-romantic) example of this would be Twilight Sparkle with most of the Mane Six. Acquaintances may meet by chance or on purpose, and at some point, they will implicitly or explicitly become friends.
Friendship
The reason why this is normally a stage in a country courtship, rather than being "friendzoned" into hopelessness, is several-fold. Pony country courtships are generally not predatory, for the simple reason that (whether the romance develops into marriage or not) the couple will probably run into each other (or the friends and family of each other) for the rest of their lives. Abusing the love and trust of another Pony in a small town is a good way of making lifelong enemies -- while there are Ponies who behave this way, they often find it wise to engage in frequent changes of address. (This is not to say that breakups don't happen; it's to say that it is bad for social harmony if they are unfriendly). A second reason is that Pony marriages are strongly companionate. The couple is expected to treat one another above all as best friends. Consequently, it is a good thing to find out if one can befriend the other. Finally, Equestria is a society which explicitly follows Love and Friendship as a positive virtues, and the two are paired in the popular mind.
If the courtship progresses further, the couple will remain friends throughout; if the two Ponies have treated one another with kindness and respect, they may remain friends even if they cease to be a romantic couple. Friendship may progress to more-than-just-friendship quite rapidly, or very slowly. In traditional rural and small-town Pony morality, choosing to demonstrate explicit romantic affection, specifically kissing, is taken very seriously, and signals the existence of an actual romantic relationship between the couple. Before then, lesser displays of affection, such as casual nuzzling, rubbing or leaning against one another, are quite likely.
Stepping Out Together
At or just before this point, the couple will begin to take long walks together, deliberately seeking out places where they have some degree of privacy. This is socially-significant because it means that they now have the opportunity for displays of sexual, in addition to romantic, behavior. Note that as friends they may have already been alone together more than once (Ponies are rarely very prudish regarding friends of the opposite sex being alone together, in part because forcible rape is almost completely unknown in Equestria), but now this privacy has become more significant, both to the courting couple and to their family and friends, who will be speculating (and probably teasing them) about the intimacy of their relationship (this is rude, but everypony does it).
This will likely involve attending social functions together as a couple. This is done both because both parties enjoy it, and as a means of signalling their status to society at large. Before a couple is stepping out together, it is acceptable (though not very nice) for other ponies to attempt to court either of them. After they have made their status as a couple public, it is considered rude and obnoxious to attempt to horn in on their romance in such a manner; one's rival is apt to resent such behavior (though open violence is less likely among Ponies than among Humans), and both members of the couple may rightly be offended.
What the members of the couple who is stepping out together do in private is up to them. It is assumed that the couple is at least leaning, nuzzling, rubbing, hugging and kissing. It is not assumed, but is certainly deemed possible, that they may be engaging in petting or even full sexual intercourse. The general term for this romantic and sexual behavior is "sparking."
Sparking
This is the general term for displays of physical romantic and sexual affection between members of a courting couple. Sparking is generally not done in public, though mild sparking is acceptable in semi-private situations such as the corners of a darkened room. The term can embrace anything from hugs and kisses to light petting (protracted intentional stimulation of secondary erogenous zones such as the back of the neck, the belly, the wings of a Pegasus, the horn of a Unicorn) to heavy petting (protracted intentional stimulation of the partner's genitalia) to sex (whether oral or full intercourse). As one moves through these stages (which may be done slowly or rapidly, depending on the couple) the degree of commitment to the relationship is assumed to increase. In a small town, it is hard to keep secrets and one's reputation is important: rural and small town Ponies are generally not comfortable with casual sex.
Bundling
Not often practiced today, but common in the 14th and earlier centuries, was bundling. This was a practice in which a number of courting couples would all lie under blankets together; each couple would spark. The reason for the custom was that in earlier centuries the outdoors was more dangerous than is the case today, and so it might be inadvisable to go off to find complete privacy. The presence of the other couples, and possibly of chaperones, might excite or inhibit the sexuality of the sparking couples. Since the early 15th century, this behavior was increasingly seen as indecent, and it is little practiced today -- though one of the places it still is practiced is South-Dunnich.
Intention
At some point during the sparking stage, the relationship will either fail or reach the point of "intention." Intention means that the couple has decided that they will marry, but have not yet formally-announced their betrothal. Intention is important because it means that the couple is very serious about their courtship: the earliest point that it would be considered at all "respectable" for a courting couple to engage in full physical intercourse (and in the case of more sexually-conservative Ponies, possibly even heavy petting) would be when they had reached or right before reaching the stage of "intention." If one becomes sexually-intimate in such a fashion with a rural or small-town Pony and does not then declare "intention," one is essentially stating to him or her (usually her) that one regards her love as trivial -- it is a grave insult and will probably break off not merely the courtship but also friendship, and her family and friends will also despise one. Making and then breaking an intention is considered a very cruel thing to do, and one had better have a good reason for doing so if one expects to continue to be liked and respected afterward.
Betrothal
This may occur at the same time or some time after "intention." The difference between intention and betrothal is that intention is the statement by the members of the couple to one another that they want to marry; while betrothal is the statement by the members of the couple to society at large that they will wed. A betrothed couple will normally set at least a tentative wedding date. It is considered perhaps-imprudent, but understandable, for a betrothed couple to have full physical intercourse, and it is not uncommon for wedding dates to be advanced or first foals to arrive a bit early.
Marriage
This, of course, results from a wedding. Marriage is a serious step: while divorce is legal it is not all that respectable, and small-town Ponies would look askance at other Ponies who divorced, especially if they divorced more than once. Most marriages are lifelong and end with the death of one or another party. It is considered decent to remarry after a suitable waiting period (a year or so) though some bereaved Ponies are too emotionally-devastated to even consider future marriages. Married couples are, of course, engaging in full sexual intercourse and attempting to produce families: these are two of the most obvious purposes of the institution (the others being economic and political alliances. Equestrian married couples are normally also best friends for life -- or ideally should be.
Trifling
This is the general term for engaging in non-serious courtship, or more loosely for any sexual conduct outside the framework of serious courtship or marriage. Specifically, it means that one is pretending to another Pony that one is courting her (or him) while having no such intentions. It is possible for a light-minded couple to be "trifling" with each other!
Trifling is generally considered non-respectable, or even indecent if it proceeds to the point of sexual intercourse. A reputation for trifling is obviously bad in terms of one's ability to seek out an actual mate; other Ponies will avoid becoming involved in courting one with such a reputation (or worse, they may assume that one is trifling when one genuinely loves them). A seriously-bad reputation for trifling may affect trust in other areas as well, such as politics or business. The friends and families of the Ponies one has harmed by such behavior might treat oneself as an enemy.
Thus a serious reputation for trifling is to be avoided, though Ponies -- especially young Ponies -- will teasingly hurl the accusation back and forth against one another at the drop of a hat. Whether the accusation is sincere or teasing is very much a matter of context, which is one reason why understanding the society of a small town can become difficult.
Cheating
Cheating happens in courtships. Depending on the circumstances and the intent, it may strengthen, weaken or even break the courtship. Cheating is considered bad and it harms most the reputation of a cheater who was himself or herself actually in a courtship at the time. The memory of the incident may fade with time and be remembered laughingly; alternately it may fester and lead to lifelong enmities. It's hard to escape the consequences of one's bad behavior in a small town.
Adultery
Adultery happens among small-town Ponies, more often than they would want to admit. It is taken seriously, especially if it threatens to break a marriage, and even more especially if there are children involved. Small-town Ponies disapprove of adultery, and the reputations of the adulterous couple will suffer, but there's not much that one can actually do about it -- it is not illegal. Adultery among Ponies rarely leads to actual murders, or even violence -- however it can shatter families and spoil lives, just as among Humans.
Conclusion
Such as the course of Love amongst (respectable) rural and small-town Ponies. It differs among urban Ponies, among the Fast Set, and among the (not very respectable) members of the small but unfortunately present Pony underclass. I'll discuss these groups on other occasions.
Huh. History lesson and sociological world-building. Nice!
And I imagine Pinkie Pie loves trifling.
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Mmm... Oh, wait, never mind.
Sigh.
And alas, you have described my own natural biases in a nutshell, and also why I have simply tossed in the towel about modern human courtship. This does bring up an interesting point, though. Assuming you're right--and I think you mostly are--you'd expect HiE stories to run up against this, wouldn't you? Considering that most Bronies are pretty solidly twenty-first century Americans with twenty-first century mores, wouldn't you think that the Mane Six waifu the self-insert wants to date would expect a lifelong commitment pretty quickly, certainly if it had become sexual, and that any attempt to back out of it would lead to massive conflict and social rejection?
Take an instance in which a Brony self-insert has materialized in Twilight's library, or (as usual) in the Everfree, and almost immediately meets Pinkie Pie and is introduced to Twilight. Assuming that Twilight even recognizes romantic interest for what it is (she might or might not), and it's reciprocal, why would it progress quickly to sexual involvement? (Even in EG, accidental hand-holding makes her blush!) And if it did, Ponyville is a small town. Rumor would move quickly, and somepony would almost certainly get pushy about intent (probably AJ or Shining Armor). And if the answer fell anywhere close to "uh--not certain if I love her, though we've been banging a lot," the best that would happen would be a tearful breakup and widespread social shunning, and the worst possible scenario would be a black eye in addition to the above.
Anyway, that's what I think, and even transferring it to my EG verse, I've had to make it resemble Ponyville more than modern America. Sorry, guys--there's no sexting at my CHS, or if there is, I don't know about it and you won't hear about it from me.
Gosh. I'm a terrible prude.
2274276 Dang! That's EXACTLY what she'd think! Brilliantly literal-minded and dessert-oriented. And now you know why my Cheese is so reluctant to spit it out. He knows perfectly well that he might be misreading the whole thing.
But still, you have to love it, don't you?
2274280
I think the problem lies in most authors having a narrow historical perspective. The tropes of modern romance are so well established in mind and memory that it's hard to imagine it ever having been different. No research is done because no research seems necessary. (Well, that and laziness. It's just easier to write ponies as 21st century humans in funny horse suits.)
And yeah, Pinkie's unique perspective can be both frustrating and endearing. Often at the same time.
This makes me wonder how a Twilight/[Ponyville Pony] romance would go. They'd be mixing their signals at every turn....
.....
?
2274280
Oh, I wouldn't give up on Humans if I were you. I've known some nice ones -- even met a few through MLP:FIM fandom. I suspect you're one of them.
The problem, I think, is that a big part of our popular culture tends to by implication favor fairly interchangeable and selfish sex over actual love. This certainly does not mean that everyone in the modern West agrees with this, but there is a tendency to assume that people are continuously sexually-active from age 18 on (and no sooner!) and that if they are not there is something wrong with them -- even if they haven't met anyone whom they love.
The worst of this is the glorification of actually-predatory behavior in the pickup and hookup cultures. Equestria is not innocent of this in my fanon -- Nosey is part of my Fluttershy's background, and my Cloud Kicker is very much modeled on the one from the Winningverse (save that she doesn't have the writer twisting everypony else's personality around her flaws, so she's not quite so popular). Most Equestrians aren't like this, though. Neither, I daresay, are most 21st-century Americans, though we're closer to it.
My story An Epistolary Legal Consultation Between Princesses certainly does. Charlie Yu's behavior utterly-horrifies most Equestrians. Ironically, ultra-traditional Applejack actually feels sorry for him, because she (correctly) suspects that Ditzy actually went along with Charlie's actions and then emotionally-collapsed when she realized he didn't really like her, and AJ thinks Yu is a sad-sack fool.
Which doesn't mean that AJ approves of his courtship techniques, of course. Or his morals. She sees him more as a little colt in a grown stallion's body, unable to control his own actions very well.
Well, she'd recognize it if it was clearly communicated. She's personally-inexperienced, but she understands about courtship in general. And she's highly-intelligent.
It's extremely unlikely that it would progress quickly to sexual involvement. Twilight is one of the few Ponies about which the show provides ample hints as to her sexual morals and concept of love (from Equestria Girls and A Canterlot Wedding) and it's fairly obvious that she's very sexually-conservative, probably the most so out of the Mane Six, who are not exactly libertines. She's also very much a marital idealist.
Watch the scene in A Canterlot Wedding when she comes totally and without reservation onto Cadance's side. That's the point where Cadance sings that she loves Shining and that his happiness is her primary concern. That is what Twilight considers love to be -- mutual devotion by the beloveds. That is not the attitude of somepony at all comfortable with anything like casual sex.
(must run, will continue this later)
Very informative read here. I do like the attitudes among the ponies as you see them; they rather remind me of the courtships I heard about from my father and mother (who were born in 1928 & 31, respectively); typically, the guy and gal knew each other for years before romance entered the picture. And even so families and friends were often consulted for approval through the whole process.
I also have to wonder what courtship is like among the non-ponies in setting such as Diamond Dogs, non-pony-raised dragons, minotaurs, and griffins. Especially if they fall for a pony and his or her family has to deal with the consequences. "Mom, Dad, say Hi to your hippogriff grandchild!"
Heck, just wonder what it must have been like for Twilight Sparkle's parents when they learned about Nyx: "Daughter, she's adorable. We didn't even know you'd met a stallion. Who is he?"
"Oh, I don't know. There were about a dozen of them...* Mom? Dad? What's wrong?"
* -- Referring of course to the ritual in which her blood was used to re-create NMM.
You sure spent a lot of world building.
Here's a tip, don't have anyone 'do for you' ANY of your world building. Otherwise you'll lose track. Have make suggestions, have them submit ideas, but YOU have to be the one to write the nature of the world.
2274280
LOL!!! Oh wow -- I can't even use most of the icons for this because they are Ponies who would be furious at anyone who hurt Twilight Sparkle!!!
Let's go down the list of beings who would hate anyone who abused Twilight ...
Her two brothers -- the biological one who is a combat-trained military officer with the ability to project super-powerful energy shields; and the adoptive one who is an armor-plated, fire-breathing dragon with the ability to bite and claw through solid stone.
Her five best friends, each of whom is in her own way an exceptionally-dangerous Pony. Rarity, a fearless martial artist. Applejack, who is strong, incredibly agile, and also basically fearless. Pinkie Pie, the reality warper. Rainbow Dash, who is combative and lacks a normal sense of self-preservation and can create what amount to tactical nuclear explosions. Fluttershy, who is sweet and timid and has awesome mind control powers, which she tends to use when she's in her berserker mode.
Her mentor Celestia, one of the most powerful beings in the world, and the absolute ruler of her nation. Her mentor's sister Luna, who Twilight has saved or helped out more than once, who even in canon likes and respects her, and in my fanon loves her. Her sister-in-law Cadance, who is kind and protective toward her.
Even if we assume that no violence ensued, the obnoxious character would have alienated a number of very important and influential Equestrians, including the most influential ones.
You mean that most fanfic authors don't get this?!!!
2274280
I find your EG-verse quite reasonable.
Look, in my main Shadow Wars universe, there are plenty of Ponies who behave badly, cruelly, maliciously, sleazily and stupidly. There are even some who are irrationally violent.
Less perhaps than in modern America, but then there are also less who display extreme personal initiative, because the Ponies are a less individualistic species than are we. Humans and Ponies are psychologically fairly similar though, it's just that their bell curves peak in different places. Were we to meet physically, we would probably be able to coexist -- at least if it were modern Americans and modern Equestrians, rather than (say) 15th century Turks and Pegasi of the Old Mandate.
I find Equestrian culture and the Pony species admirable, but I also like American humanity. I think there are a lot of really nice and good people in our country and our world today -- I don't believe that Humans Are Bastards. At least not most of us.
How important is sexting (as opposed to mere flirting by text messaging) anyway, to most high school students?
2274325
Exactly. They arrogantly assume that the way things are, in their own little part of time and space, is the only way that they can possibly be. And they write the Equestrians that way, and it feels wrong. It even feels wrong compared to canon Equestria, because canon Equestria is written with the feel of a society from half a century to a century and a half ago.
2275759
Oh yes. I fanon-mine ... I've gotten ideas from many fanons (including most especially yours) but I choose which parts I keep. I've even deliberately taken nasty ideas from some fanons because other authors were willing to be cruel (or unintentionally-cruel) to characters in ways I never would have done. For instance, I never would have thought up the idea of Fluttershy being seduced as a teenager by myself, nor would I have created anypony as negative, nasty and generally despicable as the Winningverse Cloud Kicker who was not an out-and-out villain. Of course I felt free to edit out anything I didn't like -- for instance, very few ponies actually like my Cloud Kicker.
2275862
I think a variant of Hanlon's razor applies: Do not attribute to arrogance that which is adequately explained by ignorance, laziness, and human nature. "The way things are is the way they've always been" has been a common refrain among the historically illiterate for millennia. There's no overbearing pride at work, just insufficient data.
Well, there usually isn't.
2276830
You have a point there. I have read numerous works of social history, many of which have covered customs of courtship, and am quite aware of the peculiar features of our own (including many little remarked upon because everyone takes them for granted) So I don't assume that they apply to every time and place. A lot of people do.
2275847
Unfortunately very common among grownups, too, but I was thinking of this recent case. Seems to be about a couple of logic-challenged teenagers sending explicit photos and videos, and then one kid's mom found stuff on her daughter's phone, and now the male (two years older, but still underage) kid is being charged with producing child pornography. And it spirals still further into the bizarre.
But the characters I'm dealing with flat out wouldn't do that and I don't feel the need to stuff it in for verisimilitude. Texting--just plain texting--is clearly a thing at Canterlot High. Also, Twilight seems to have figured out hands. Also, Pinkie Pie is Best Sort-Of-Human. Note especially her reflection in the funhouse mirror and her carousel steed.
Without giving away TOO much, I can can say that Cheese is going to have his phone impounded by his aunt at some point, but the good thing is that she's not going to find pictures that will give her a coronary. Hmmm--well, not of that kind, anyway.
2276830
2276940 And in some cases, it's "did the research, but I don't care"! I've been told by authors, editors, and agents specializing in historical romance that they expect to see some serious action by chapter 4, or readers will get bored, but they don't want to see "I love you" until the very end. These are people who are unbelievably careful about foodstuff and the availability of aniline dyes and who knows what, because I've seen the material they've researched, but they also know what sells.
Obviously, this isn't true of all writers, but one thing that's nice about writing fanfic is that you can write what you like. Still, people writing with an eye towards the feature box are going to want to do the same thing.
2277250
That news story is bizarre, and it's an example of the kind of atrocious consequences possible when authorities who lack common sense are given overly-strict laws to enforce. It's also a good example of why one should be very careful of the reflexive desire to solve social problems through lawmaking.
I'm pretty sure that the laws against making child pornography were not meant to make it illegal for children to take nude pictures of themselves, whether in good or bad taste. But they've been enforced that way. Lives are being ruined here, and in the case you referenced, the teenage boy is being commanded to produce a freaking erection for the sake of prosecuting him for making child pornography -- which strikes me as going against the intent of the Fifth Amendment, in ways the Founders probably never imagined!
In the context of the Equestria Girls world -- assuming that the fad for sexting has even caught on there, I really doubt that any of the Mane Six or their close friends and relatives would be likely to do it. This is true both in your version of that world and in mine, though in mine there's probably some people, somewhere, doing it. I don't even really see it as being the sort of thing most of the nastier characters would do -- too much potential for embarrassment.
I bet most of this in reality goes on between teenagers who are in some way shape or form in love with one another, though it's a pretty dumb thing to do because the photos might wind up in hands one did not want them to wind up in. Then again, teenagers can do some pretty dumb things.
Totally agree with you that Pinkie and Cheese wouldn't be doing this. Though I do think they might send each other some pretty strange pictures (and other messages). Just not strange that way. They're into "bizarre" and "funny," not "sleazy."
I know exactly whose analogue in my version of the EG universe would be doing this sort of thing, though. And trying to get her "friends" to do it, too, so as to make the beahavior seem more normal.
And no, she's not really a villain, either. Just seriously messed up.
Cloud Kicker. Who would, of course, be an ex military-brat from a long-standing service family, expelled from her last school for extremely-unacceptable behavior, and establishing her reputation in this school as ... well, you know.
And in the process, gathering a circle around her of those who either admired her bad behavior, sought to benefit for it, or simply liked her for other aspects of her personality (such as Blossom and Ditzy). Since, after all, my fanon about those characters is essentially based on the Winningverse, only without the Protagonist-Centered Morality (where everything CK does is just peachy keen no matter how many others it hurts).
Of course this has very little to do with the Mane Six even in the EQ-verse, because they aren't CK's friends (well, CK probably leers at Fluttershy with bad intent from time to time, and Pinkie Pie acts friendly toward CK but just happens to never be in a vulnerable position with her, and Rainbow Dash doesn't trust her) and hence her doings aren't very important to their lives. There's a lot of bad things going on in any world, including the real one, which are irrelevant to a particular character or group of characters.
Some points on that video.
EQ phones are programmable with Cutie Marks. I actually think that Cutie Marks exist in the EQ-verse in the sense that people choose or have revealed to them in dreams or visions symbols representing their essence which they afterward use as their "marks" and often incorporate into their clothing.
Did you notice that the EQ Big Mac and Cheerilee seem to be a couple? Not obvious from context if they're dating romantically, but they're certainly hanging out together. This mirrors both the canon MLP:FIM Pony world and my fanon (in which they renew an old romantic friendship, one in which now their age difference is trivial).
Heh heh heh -- Spike won the contest! Which makes me think that this must be Spike from the Pony verse in dog form, which implies that this is Twilight from the Pony verse with him. Remember when I said that the Dragon Spike -- despite his small size -- is stronger than a Pony?
Is that Humanoid Lyra we keep seeing in the background? Who is she hanging out with? And this makes me wonder if Lyra really, really likes horses ...
Hey, Diamond Tiara likes their music!
Nice to see the Humanoid CMC.
AJ's expression looking at Pinkie's reflection is priceless -- you just know she's thinking something along the lines of "Wait a dadgum minute -- ain't you violating the laws of physics now?"
Hee hee -- you're right, Humanoid Pinkie is riding a carousel horse version of Pony Pinkie!
Lots of cute cellphone photos in that video.
This would explain the bad renditions of culture in most popular historicals, then.
2277394 You'll be happy to know, I hope, that widespread news coverage and public outrage coming from all over the political spectrum have forced the Manassas Police to walk things back to the point that they are not going to take this poor kid to the hospital and give him an erection injection and take photos. I think the defense attorney pointed out that by the same kind of logic, wouldn't the police be "producing child pornography?"
While I don't intend my EG story to get any further than maybe a PG rating at most--and not for sexual content--this was something I had to think about, and I did look up age of consent laws. And I found that they are a crazy patchwork quilt, state by state. Some have "Romeo and Juliet" laws or waivers, whereby couples within a certain age range are treated differently. The state I live in has one of the strictest laws: couples under the age of 18 are considered to have committed a felony against each other. There are whole zip codes near me that would have to go to jail!
I did, and it's very odd indeed, since in EG, Cheerilee is a teacher and Big Mac seems to be a student. It's possible that he isn't--he brings a delivery of apple cider to the school, and later he's seen eating an apple in the cafeteria at lunchtime, which could be explained by the fact that both his sisters are students and his granny is the lunch lady. Some people freak out over this. I merely note that they seem to be taking a walk, how nice.
I'm almost positive that it is FiM/Equestria Twilight and Spike, which is good news, because Puppy Spike is one of the most delightful things about the first movie. I remember in the runup to it, people were complaining that Spike was going to be a "dumb animal," and I thought "huh, not likely." Puppy Spike is, if anything, even snarkier and smarter than the original flavor.
I don't think that's Lyra. Some of the EG background cast don't have corresponding ponies and vice versa. There was much sadness when there was apparently no Lyra. Maybe she'll appear in the new one.
Anyhoo, gotta get back to the current story. The cover art is already out and I don't like having that floating around unused too long, even though I commissioned it. Unfortunately, I'm more in the mood to write CheesePie!
2277587
It's always a bad idea to criminalize something that is being widely done. When one considers that age of consent laws also apply to actions short of full physical intercourse (such as petting, kissing or even romantic conversation, which would be considered "child molestation" and "corrupting a minor" respectively) it is quite possible that in those areas all but the loneliest teenagers are theoretically guilty of some felony!
To take the love scene I showed you, in it Igneous is around 32-33 and Cloudy around 16-17, which means means that there would be jurisdictions in which he would be guilty of corrupting a minor and child molestation. This is definitely not the case in the jurisdiction in which they live: I'm assuming an age of consent ranging from 16 all the way down to 10 (a hangover from pre-industrial times) in most of the land (note well: very few Equestrians ever actually got married or have sex at ten years old!.
I did research on Maryland State Law (because I was anticipating complaints that Piercing had committed statutory rape upon Trixie, which I knew would not be the case in most Western cultures as she was nineteen at the time) and found to my surprise that the first age of consent on the books in Maryland was ten. Though I doubt that there were large numbers of ten-year-olds who were sexually-active through most of Maryland's history! Historically, 19th century American ages of consent generally ranged from around 12 to 16; it was in the 20th century that they were pushed up to 16-18.
The great irony here is that in 19th century America, most women probably didn't have sex until ages 16-21, often not until marriage, and the age of consent being 12-16 meant that very few people were committing statutory rape. Now, the average age of first sexual activity is something like 14-16, and the age of consent has been pushed up to 16-18, as if passing laws could remedy the fundamental problem here. These average age of first sexual activity figures are of course being dragged down by the statistics from the underclass, where it is not at all uncommon for young girls to start having sex at around 12-14.
Now here's the darkly funny part. The vast majority of those 12-14 year olds who are having sex are not having sex with 12-14 year old boys. They are having sex with guys at least in their late teens, say 16-19 year olds, and in many cases with adults in their 20's. This is exactly the situation which the increased age of consent laws are supposedly meant to prevent!!!
Of course, given how common this situation is and the strong interest both parties to such relationships have to conceal them from the police, this means that the laws are almost meaningless. They are normally enforced when either (1) the authorities want to persecute someone, (2) the parents of the girl want to force the guy to break off the relationship (this is actually the reason for which age of consent laws were invented), or (3) the relationship fails and the girl wants to punish the guy. (The male is far more often the older of the twain). This makes them more a random factor inflicting grief on people (usually poor people) than an effective deterrent against anything.
The real problem, of course, is that our society has for a very long time discouraged both responsibility and marriage among young people, which has the result of encouraging very early sexual activity coupled with absolutely no ability to support any children resulting from this activity. Equestrian culture is close to the opposite pattern here -- most Ponies embark upon serious careers in their mid to late teens, generally before they are engaging in actual sexual activity -- in consequence, most mothers and couples are in a position to take care of the resultant children. This is modeled on the way Western cultures worked in the 19th century.
I don't think that Humanoid Big Mac actually is a student at the school, though he well may be a fairly recent graduate. My guess is that Humanoid Cheerilee is also a fairly young teacher.
I have the gap in ages between Pony Applejack and Pony Big Mac's ages to be 4 years (AJ 22 and Big Mac 26 at the time of the RoL) and between Pony Big Mac and Pony Cheerilee to be 2 years (Cheerilee 28 at the time of the RoL). But then I also have the Pony Mane Six being 5 years apart in age from Twilight's 17 to AJ's 22 at the time of the RoL, which doesn't work for them being all in high school together. Incidentally, this means that by my chronology Big Mac is 28 and Cheerilee 30 at the time of "Hearts and Hooves Day," which might be a milestone in years making her feel particularly sad about nopony being in love with her -- and it also makes the 2-year gap in their ages trivial, as it was not when they first became friends in Collateral Damage (he's 7 and she's 9).
If we compress this gap to just 2 years (Humanoid Twilight being 15 to AJ's 17, which seems about right) then if we keep the other age gaps, Humanoid Big Mac would be 21 (he looks it in the animation) and Humanoid Cheerilee 23, which is a plausible age for her to be employed as a teacher, and also means that there is absolutely nothing legally or even ethically wrong with them dating (as at 21 Big Mac is no longer a high school student, whatever else he is doing). If time runs the same on both sides of the portal, AJ and the Mane Six entered the school at 13-14 (presumably there's a JHS attached -- the presence of the CMC would make this likely) at which time Big Mac was 18 and Cheerilee would have been 21, just getting out of college and possibly hiring on. So there would have been a brief period when Big Mac might possibly have been her student.
One possibility is that there is actually only one Lyra, and she crossed over to the Pony world through the portal when she was very small -- and has dimly remembered her previous life as a Humanoid ever since. Remember, the portal changes you. (Incidentally, that kind of portal is a signature of the Clark Ashton Smith stories of the Cthulhu Mythos).
Wow! This was really really helpful. Not all that unlike humans but to have it spelled out in such detail definitely gave me something to consider in my story.
Thanks for the inspiration!