• Member Since 13th Mar, 2012
  • offline last seen Feb 21st, 2023

WardenPony


More Blog Posts23

  • 498 weeks
    Not Dead Yet

    Rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated. Oh, wait, no one's even been talking about me? Well, fine. But the good news is I am alive and well, and I'm actively working on some horse words for general consumption. Unlike my usual creative process where I come up with an idea, briefly jot it down in one of a number of locations and then forget about it, I am presently writing a story

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    2 comments · 555 views
  • 534 weeks
    Some Updates and Non-pony-related Things

    I suppose it's been a while since I changed any kind of status here, so I've got an overall update for those of you people interested.

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    3 comments · 508 views
  • 543 weeks
    Happy Year-ending Holidays, and a preview of something new.

    It's been a long time since I did a blog, so I figure I should re-introduce myself to anyone new. If you already know all about me that you care to know, go ahead and skip down a couple paragraphs. Before you do that, however, have a belated happy Christmas you pagan ritualists, and if you celebrate anything else during the year-turn, I hope you enjoy that as well.

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    0 comments · 388 views
  • 556 weeks
    Sac Brony Expo: On Writing Panel

    So, I recorded the recent panel that I participated in over Skype with Shortskirtsandexplosions, Pilate, Chromosome, Mist Twister and Propmaster. The panel was fun, and apart from the technical issues seemed to go pretty smoothly. I was going to put it up on youtube, but for whatever reason the video got stuck in the processing stage, and never made it up, so instead I'll use my soundcloud since

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    1 comments · 456 views
Sep
6th
2012

A (Long) Discourse on The End of Ponies · 2:04am Sep 6th, 2012

What follows was initially going to be my argument for the Dredgemane arc of Shortskirtsandexplosions' epic: The End of Ponies as the best of the story arcs thus far completed. The detail of the post will probably not interest most of you, but I felt a blog post would fit the massive thing better than clogging up the comments section of a story by friend of mine. Red Wings. So, here's the thing in full: (I suppose the very last paragraph acts as a sort of tl;dr since I attempt to summarize my position, but I added some things I never got to in the body of the post, so it's more a conclusion and final challenge than a summary.)



>>1226475 (See replied comments)
All right, if you insist. I'll go into it, but not right now. At least, not all the way right now, but I will preface my argument. (Or that was my intention, but once I got started, I just kept going... and going.)

Each arc of End of Ponies has used a different device. In the expository/introductory arc, the majority of the story comes as world-building. Then we reach the first real change when Scoot goes after the green flame in ponyville. From this point on we've really entered the core of the End of Ponies story. Everything up to and including that first trip back in time really just sets the stage for us. It establishes most of the differences we should expect from this Scootaloo and what we see in the show--how she's changed and evolved over the 25 or so years since the Cataclysm. (If I remember right, we also learn about all the different Alicorn goddesses near the end of this arc.)

When we reach the Applejack arc, the story is a direct narrative. Much like first arc, but there are fewer (if any. I haven't read it in a while) journal entries, and we get to learn about how the Apple family works in the EoPverse. We learn about the relationship between ponies and the earth, and we learn about trolls. The story flows smoothly and quickly, and finally Harmony saves Apple Bloom, and the narrative shifts slightly, given us a view from the Apples' point of view. The visiting goddess of time is gone, and it's assumed they go about their lives. It's possible that AJ mentions Harmony to her friends, and the mythos/self-fulfilling nature of the opening flashback of the story is building. Now Scoot is back in the future and realizes she's learned nothing about why the Cataclysm happened. She's frustrated, but calms down as she prepares for her next trip. That brings us to the next arc.

In the Fluttershy Arc (Honestly, my least favorite, which I'll elaborate upon shortly.) the main device is a series of flashbacks that are all tied together. In fact, it's less a simple flashback, and more a story within a story, Circles within circles. The two sets of events are intertwined tightly together, and when the arc ends we see exactly how the causal relationship works. Scoot has had a direct impact on her own life again/for the first time. (Remember Rainbow Dash mentioning Harmony in the beginning? And ignoring the fact that she named her airship after herself or vice-versa.) Anyway, back to the beginning of the arc, this is the first time Scootaloo has to work to reach the remains of her+Spike's friends and it opens up the possibility, even the likelihood, that it's going to be harder and harder to even get to the past. (Because that's how stories usually work.) She has to go deep into the briar--a dismal place that is presumably one of the most dangerous of the Wastelands-- in pursuit of a skeleton. She gets the remains, and has to use the stored breath as her means of escape from the adult Ursa. (was it still a Minor because of some cosmic thing? If not, Major)

We make it to the past and the first thing we see is Dinky, who it appears saw our time traveler appear from thin air. Moving along, Fluttershy is charged with finding the Capricorn, and Harmony, feeling for her, and anchored to her in any case, volunteers to assist her. They begin searching the Everfree forest, and things... slow... down... Here is the weakest part of the story. (imo) Much of the time spent searching through the forest is filled--so we're not bored to death with the two walking endlessly through trees, or think the task is too easy--with the flashback story of young Scootaloo. It's just hard to care about the annoying little squirt when we're used to the more mature version. Granted, the two stories tie together quite nicely, and overall, I don't dislike the arc, it's just my least favorite. Enough happens in both stories to keep you interested and to keep the plot progressing, and once the Capricorn baby comes fully into play things get really interesting. The tension builds up and we get all sorts of mental candy to chew on as the possessed Dinky spouts utter nonsense combined with poignant truths. Things build up and Harmony has to race against the clock to save the lives of the filly and infant cosmic being. (The whole racing against the clock thing kind of repeats itself in every arc so far, but hey, there's only so much you can do that's new.) Finally Scoot ends up going back and getting out of her deadly situation by using the deus-ex-machina of song. Honestly, I don't dislike the scene, but it really strains that disbelief even with all the reasoning and justification in the story. Then we make it to the Dredgemane arc.

The Dredgemane arc opens very differently than the others, and yet the main device of the arc is one we're somewhat familiar with: journal entries. The opening takes place after the main events of the arc, and frames for us the location we're going to be working with for much of the time. Scoot digs through the refuse of the past, remembering where she touched it. It's something new for the story, she's touched her past self before, but now what she did in the past is leaving more of an impact on the Scootaloo of the present. Much as she evolved over the course of the 25 years after the Cataclysm before she found Spike, she is evolving and growing over the course of the story. Each trip back in time has impacted her, and we're beginning to see just how much she's changing. This frames the way the journal entries are going to be used. They're all set after the complete events of the arc, but used to illuminate certain sections in a way that the normally tight narrative could not were it to stay in the relative moment. We then transition to the effective starting point for the arc with Fluttershy's burial. (It's a different story altogether, but I honestly preferred the big "falling" motif from the earlier draft to the way the arc is bookended now. I just think it worked better with pacing.) The beginning of the first chapter is pretty slow. A lot of it doesn't even seem immediately important, and that's a bit of a weakness. Once Scootaloo is fully on the trail for Pinkie's remains, things warm back up to a fair pace.

The information about Ponymonium comes as a bit of a surprise, but it makes sense given what little we know about the EoPverse and canon Equestria around the time of Nightmare Moon's rise to power. I'm led to believe there's a lot more in Skirt's recent story: Saros, but I haven't even read all of that yet, so I can't comment too much. It's a separate story, but helps with world-building in general. The events in Ponymonium are reminiscent of Canterlot, but in a darker, more nightmarish way. Yet, the narrative takes a lighter tone with it (already beginning to embrace a bit of Pinkie Pie) There are some genuinely funny moments throughout the entire End of Ponies epic, but some of the best are in the first two chapters of this arc. The second is kaizo to a degree one can only accept with regards to Pinkie Pie, and if Harmony weren't anchored to her, she wouldn't accept it either. We see the mature, and hardened mare of the Wastelands clash with the jubilant party pony of the Ponyville past, and they act as natural foils. (Each arc has had Harmony act as a foil to the mane six pony involved to a degree, but this is the furthest it's been taken yet.)

Things are certainly different from the preceding arcs, but the story builds into an unstoppable roller-coaster of a thing. There is a long and detailed setup for the city of Dredgemane. This is the one, one MLP fanfic that has made me cry, and even on my second reading I was almost driven to tears. Each domino is gently, and precisely, put into place just so, that when the moment comes, the rest of the arc goes in a rush. You simply don't want to put the story down, and you're barely past the halfway point. The entire scene builds so spectacularly, so dismally, that it is a trip just to remember it all. My goal as I slowly, very slowly, record the audio for this arc is to share just how incredible this particular story is. In fact--I may be speaking out of turn for SS&E here, but--I think one of the biggest things holding back the next part of the story (the Petra story arc that's had at least two nearly complete rewrites) is matching the impact of the Dredgemane story while still treading new ground. Of course, then the whole Background Pony thing came about, and it's wildly more popular than EoP ever was for various reasons.

Now, I've kind of digressed from my point, but to sum it all up (Hopefully without spoiling too much of anything, but mostly the Dredgemane arc): The Dredgemane arc is different from the rest of EoP. It's more philosophical, more emotional, and much, much, more powerful. Even so, it still has the elements from the rest of the story: the action, the taste of the Wasteland world, ponies seen at their best and worst. Hell, the Dredgemane arc is the size of all the rest of it put together, it sure as hell better be as good as the rest of it. I can say that it delivers on that promise. Feel free to disagree, but I doubt you'll ever be able to convince me. By any chance, have I convinced you?

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Comments ( 20 )

Well honestly, I never got to the rollorcoaster, I got sick of the line of the absurdly slow Dreadmane chapter and left the queue

339311
I just don't get how you could get through the Fluttershy arc and not be able to reach the point of no return on the Dredgemane one. I suppose it's a different type of slowness, but I felt Dredgemane's pace, even during the main buildup, an acceptable rate. Of course, I really like to see a complex plot structure built up and watch as each piece slides into place during the climax and resolution. The pay off is huge, though I can certainly agree that it takes a little while for it to become apparent for the specific arc. Of course, one would think you'd trust the author enough to make it all (and each section) worthwhile once you've already committed to reading the first half of the thing.

339380 I loved the Fluttershy chapters, I kept reading through all previous chapters because they had a content flow to it. They were slow paced (while picking up at points, like with the wasteland chapters epic intro) but they always made sure to be interesting. Dreadmane took slowness to a whole new extent. How he could write a place in a slower pace then a dead wasteland is beyond me.

339380 If you want to know the difference to me between the Fluttershy chapters. The Fluttershy chapters felt like riding a tractor a kilometre, I could run faster, but fuck that, this is far easier. The Dreadmane chapters felt like pushing a car with the handbrake off, I would rather not go then sit through it. Which likely doesn't make a lick of sense.

I believe with me putting through all my work into getting through it, I made it about 60% through the first Dreadmane chapter. And that was all boredom in the purest form.

339475
Chapter 16 follows the vein as the first chapter in the Fluttershy arc (once it gets past the scene where Scootaloo goes through the ruins of Dredgemane and buries Fluttershy), but with the trip the massive moonrock and solving the dilemma of getting underneath it instead of with delving into the Everfree Briar.

Assuming my quick skim of the chapter is about right, you got to about the point where Scootaloo first discovers the giant moonrock? Immediately following that is a scene with our favorite Russian, talking squirrel. Don't tell me you found his scene boring; he's a big crowd-pleaser! Right after that, comes a discussion with Spike (who I will certainly admit can drag if you're not used to the type of discourse.) Though I always enjoyed the scenes due to the chance for the banter between the two. Then there's a bit of an action scene where Scoot falls through a stormfront before boring into the moonrock with the lightning gun. If the events of Ponymonium bore you, then you can skip to the last eight pages or so to get a pseudo-zombie scene complete with lots of yelling and runic commands. And explosions. If that doesn't sell you, then you can probably skip past all of that and get the last page and a half where Scoot makes it to the past. The rest of the arc comes in quicker succession as I remember, with plenty or short bits (thanks to Pinkie Pie and her... unique family) mixed in with the longer, more intricate plot.

I suppose, maybe the beginning of Dredgemane may be like pushing a car, but it's that manual transmission whose battery died, and all you need to do is get it rolling and pop the clutch for the engine to catch and it to be a smooth ride. (Analogies are fun!)

339475

You obviously didn't make it to Brucie. Everybody LOVES Brucie! You need to push through that first chapter. Warden just gave a very succinct summary of what happens in chapter 16. Chapter 17 is Insane Pinkie Pie and wonderful crazyness. And it just fires on all cylinders from there on out.

Dredgemane is one of the most complex arcs in the story, and contains some of the best characters and evil villains in the story thus far. Read it, because you will not be disappointed.

340063
In Soviet St. Petersbrittle, Brucie hates You!

Is good thing Squirrel Proletariat vas overthrown, da? Now, Brucie loves Everybody!

340063
In all seriousness, then literally jump to chapter 17. Pinkie makes everything better. Unless you hate Pinkie too?

340100 Pinkie is good, however she does not go with Dreadmane in any way, nor a obvious way nor a well done contrast way.

339681

Burys fluttershy?

WTF are you on about, STOP SPOILING THE FIC *I CANT HEAR YOU I CANT HEAR YOU*

The beginning of the first chapter is pretty slow.

Yeah, I'll admit it confused me too. But then I reread that chapter after I finished the Dredgemane Arc. Easily one of the most powerful things I've ever read. Especially when she found Suntrot's picture. Manly tears were shed.


I could go on about how awesome the Dregdemane Arc was, but spoilers, and I really don't like typing it all out. Warden here said enough that I don't feel it necessary to add my two cents.


And you should finish Saros. It's awesome. :rainbowkiss:

340887 Which is kind of a major point of the arc? What we find in Dredgemane is completely the opposite of what one might expect a Pinkie Pie arc to be about. Pinkie Pie is still Pinkie Pie, same as ever, and yet we see her in an entirely new and at first strange light when we see her family and Dredgemane. It seems strange at first, and to be honest it doesn't really make much sense. I won't spoil anything, but suffice it to say that SS&E doesn't write things for no reason. Everything is confusing to the reader because everything is just as confusing to Scootaloo. She doesn't understand what's going on in Dredgemane any more than the reader does. But it is going somewhere. There's not too much that can be said without spoiling the story, but the Dredgemane arc was full of memorable, interesting, and nuanced characters. It was one of the most moving things I've ever read. When I finished it (3 hours after I had intended to go to sleep that night, those chapters are long. heh), I literally bolted up out of my chair and paced around the room to bleed off the emotions that had been building up over the course of the arc. We see ponies at their lowest and their highest; we see Scootaloo struggling to make sense of situations which even she, a veteran of the Wastelands, of death and loneliness and desolation, can't understand. The pacing, I can also say is done magnificently; it starts out extremely slowly (though not all that much slower than parts of the previous arcs), but I believe that such slow pacing is a narrative device used to drive home the story, and is used to great effect as the arc progresses. I don't want to give away what is done with pacing, for fear of spoiling it, but trust me when I say it was used properly and to a truly magnificent effect.

340887
You DO realise that you're bagging it before you even bother to read it, right? I mean, it's fair enough not to read it as it does require quite a lot of time to be put aside to do so and if you don't think it's worth the effort then it's no real problem, is it? But if you aren't going to read it, don't go and start insulting it by saying the ideas don't work and it's a bad arc, or that it isn't worth reading because then you just come across as negative and a bit silly :twilightoops:

347076 I DID bother to read the intro chapter to Dreadmane (chapter 18, I assume the fic has more Dreadmane in later chapters)

I set aside 3 hours then to read it, I got through 60% of it before I just stopped reading, it was so god damn boring. I could tell it was there for a reason, because I'm both incredibly smart and know what kind of person Short Skirts is (at least as a writer and on the internet). But I just couldn't take the boredom, it felt like grinding in WOW, so boring that if you have the patience to do more then 20 minutes you must think its the only game ever made.

347081
Things begin to become more fast-paced after chapter 18, so I still think that it is worth a read. Perhaps you could pace it out in more digestible chunks, for example; 4000 words a night?
Either way, I respect your opinion on the matter, since ultimately it's you who benefits (or doesn't :derpytongue2:) from the story.

All the best,
Ember

351784 Spacing out the chuncks would be easy if I could bookmark parts of a chapter. Which I cant unless I download it, and I just prefer the sites formating.

340100 I just realised that you said jump to chapter 18 that I couldn't finish :rainbowlaugh:

Also, I LOVED chapter 16, finally a author perfectly blending random and dark. :pinkiehappy: My favourite combo *pulls out bloody knife*

17. Chapter 17. Chapter 16 is the intro arc to dredgemane. Chapter 17 is Harmony's first encounter with pinkie pie. Chapter 18 is the first time we see dredgemane and meet pinkie pie's family. Chapter 18 introduces the bad guy, bishop breathstar, the crazy guy, brevis, and the superhero known as The Royal Grand Biv (who is a mix between Banksy and for Vendetta). Seriously, the arc is the best of all of the released arcs. If you can't manage it, though, then just wait for the Petra arc, which is the next arc in the series. That arc is going to be more action.

351918
And what a crazy-awesome arc it will be: Harmony meets Rainbow Dash... yes please! :rainbowdetermined2:

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