Site Post » Paragraphs · 12:04am Feb 22nd, 2013
I didn't think this was the kind of thing that needed addressing, but given the number of fics that are failed for it on a consistent basis, and the fact that 75% of those fics come back with the problem completely unaddressed, it seems like we need to have a talk.
Paragraph separation.
It is not a complex concept. Maybe the idea of a 'paragraph' is alien to some people; if that's the case, I would urge you to educate yourself on the subject. There's a helpful article available Here – but, to summarize, a paragraph is an indentation/line break in a piece of writing that establishes: a piece of dialogue or new character speaking; a new thought or action separate from one prior; a change in time or location; a dramatic pause.
Or, you know. You can just put them wherever. Paragraphs exist to help assist reader absorption of your story, and to let them know when it's okay to make a mental skip in the flow of the action or narration. They also keep your story from being a completely unreadable wall of text. Consider the following two examples. First, without paragraphs:
"Hey Twilight!" Rainbow Dash yelled. She had a crazy hat on that was like a top hat as she flew real high up into the air and then came back down to Twilight's balcony. "Rainbow Dash?" said Twilight, surprised that Rainbow Dash was there. Rainbow Dash landed on the balcony with a 'poof' that made dust fly everywhere. "What's happening, egg-head?" she asked, and flipped her mane in a flippy fashion. She was so totally cool, Twilight could feel herself swooning just from the site of her cyan blue periwinkle deep-sea coat and prismatic multichromatic rainbow mane. "Wow, Rainbow Dash, you sure are an awesome pony," Twilight said. "Thanks Twilight," said Rainbow Dash. Her voice was totally cool, just like her. That's why Twilight was secretly in love with Rainbow Dash, even though she coudln't tell anypony. She thought about Rainbow Dash every day, even when she was brushing her teeth, because the colours in her toothpaste reminded her of Rainbow Dash. Twilight had thought about telling Rainbow Dash that she loved her, but she was afraid Rainbow Dash would tell her that was dumb, and that she would stop being Twilight's friend. She was afraid that even if Rainbow Dash didn't hate her, she would reject Twilight's confession, and the two of them would never have sweet lesbian makeouts ever. Rainbow Dash, meanwhile, didn't know any of this, nor did she think about it, because she was too busy being a totally super cool pony. But, if Twilight had told her, she would have totally said yes to lesbian makeouts. That's why the whole thing was so awkward.
Versus:
"Hey Twilight!" Rainbow Dash yelled. She had a crazy hat on that was like a top hat as she flew real high up into the air and then came back down to Twilight's balcony.
"Rainbow Dash?" said Twilight, surprised that Rainbow Dash was there.
Rainbow Dash landed on the balcony with a 'poof' that made dust fly everywhere.
"What's happening, egg-head?" she asked, and flipped her mane in a flippy fashion. She was so totally cool, Twilight could feel herself swooning just from the site of her cyan blue periwinkle deep-sea coat and prismatic multichromatic rainbow mane.
"Wow, Rainbow Dash, you sure are an awesome pony," Twilight said.
"Thanks Twilight," said Rainbow Dash. Her voice was totally cool, just like her.
That's why Twilight was secretly in love with Rainbow Dash, even though she coudln't tell anypony. She thought about Rainbow Dash every day, even when she was brushing her teeth, because the colours in her toothpaste reminded her of Rainbow Dash.
Twilight had thought about telling Rainbow Dash that she loved her, but she was afraid Rainbow Dash would tell her that was dumb, and that she would stop being Twilight's friend. She was afraid that even if Rainbow Dash didn't hate her, she would reject Twilight's confession, and the two of them would never have sweet lesbian makeouts ever.
Rainbow Dash, meanwhile, didn't know any of this, nor did she think about it, because she was too busy being a totally super cool pony. But, if Twilight had told her, she would have totally said yes to lesbian makeouts. That's why the whole thing was so awkward.
While both of those are reprehensible examples of proper storytelling, one of them is much kinder on the eyes, and easier to parse besides.
This is something I'm harping on because, perhaps in a completely foolish manner, I'd like to see the quality of stories on the site raised a bit. Requiring basic grammar was a big step in the way the approval process works, and this is just a slight honing of that; there is not a single body of examination of writing (including your high school English class, unless your teacher is really dumb) that will even look at something you've written if you don't separate your paragraphs in some fashion. Indents are the convention in standard fiction, but given that the site's GDoc import tends to ruin indenting, line breaks are something a lot of people use, which is totally fine. The key thing is:
Please.
For the love of all that is holy.
Make paragraphs
Separate them.
And don't complain if your story gets failed for having a giant wall of text with no new lines to speak of.
Cheers!
Amen, bro.
I approve of everything in this blog. Walls of text are bad.
Unfortunately, as most fandoms and all fanfic hosting websites know, the wall of text is inescapable.
I don't see the second one as any better; something about reading on a screen, makes an actual separation between paragraphs seem almost necessary. I strongly recommend that everyone use line breaks instead of indents when writing for this site, or any other for that matter.
I kinda wish the site would establish some sort of formal writing tutorials or workshops. Not as any sort of commentary on the quality of stories submitted to the site, but rather as an encouragement for people to actually use such tools. Everyone writing here has at least some desire to write well; that should be encouraged (it's damn rare on the internet in general).
Wall of text =
853348
I approve of the workshop idea, though I'm not sure how tenable it as. Maybe some of the proof-readers or mod team could put something together in the future.
As for 'preferring line breaks' – that's your prerogative, and potentially one more reasonable in an online medium, but the standard for manuscript format fiction or any properly written piece of prose in the real world is indented paragraphs. That's partly why I encourage it; if people here want to use fanfiction as anything more than a well for drowning their ideas, it's a good practice to hone your writing to a publishable standard as best you can. Don't use conventions that don't apply elsewhere in the world, because you'll find yourself getting used to them and having problems adapting elsewhere.
woah...people having problems with paragraphs? Not to be rude or sound like an ass...but isn't that basic knowledge for a writer.
I don't know what's worse: that this blog had to be made, or that I'm in no way surprised that it had to be made.
853359 Regarding a workshop, I don't see it all that likely either, as it would need a significant time investment from someone with actual professional experience, who could keep opinions and such out of the way but still make the lecture engaging. And, as I said, a lot of work.
Regarding learning conventions, well, I am technically a published writer (science journals, nothing impressive to anyone here I guarantee you), and I'd say that formatting is probably the easiest habit to adapt, and something you'll probably need to be flexible on in any case. Besides, if you try to limit yourself to real world conventions, you'll be just as screwed when you go somewhere in the real world where those conventions do not hold (nothing is universal, after all).
I didn't give you permission to use my story as an example. I demand compensation!
Kind of sad that this needs explanation...
853383
In the real world, it's not hard to switch between using line breaks and indents when appropriate. On the world of the internet, where people are writing primarily fiction, for which the convention is indented lines, I'd encourage them to stick with it, especially if they're having trouble understanding the idea of a paragraph in the first place
853389 I suppose. I don't like the idea of convention ever taking precedence over usability, but when you're starting from basics it's better to be simple than ideal.
853389 Though I speak only for myself, I've got in the habit of writing to fiction conventions and then running my fics through a set of filters in libreoffice to add extra linebreaks between paragraphs for online publication. Saves me the trouble of having to keep multiple conventions in my head. I'm happy,. my readers are happy (or as happy as readers can be - finicky bunch they are), everyone's happy.
Overall it does seem a lot easier to read online if there's lots of whitespace around each paragraph.
In the Name of Her Serene Majesty I accept this blog post, with an addition of my own.... For the Love of Epona stop making paragraphs in the middle of sentences. It's just as annoying as the giant wall of text.
*Makes WoT story*
*Makes a new line once, for the punchline ending*
YAY
853359
Have you considered adding another entry to the "tips" when you create a new story? Right now, there's just three. Why not a fourth with some helpful links, to the likes of EZN's guide and others of equal quality?
Such guides contain a lot of useful information for the novice writer, covering things like formatting, conversation grammar, and characterization, all in a nice little bundle.
I agree and applaud your effort to help others improve. Kudos.
You know, with all of the formatting problems you hear about on this site, you'd think that we're dealing with a bunch of people who've never read a book before, or perhaps not nearly enough books, and live in places where the education system is just dreadful. Or maybe they're just totally indifferent to this sort of thing. Maybe these people just choose to throw formatting and presentation completely out the window when they write fiction.
Thank God. I've been tired of seeing un-indented paragraphs and paragraphs that are barely separated. Thank you so much.
Every time I see one of these, I don't know whether to be happy that the problem's been addressed or horribly depressed that the problem existed in the first place.
853519 Oh wow. I haven't come across that guide before; very nice. I'm going to have to go through it in its entirety, at some point. I agree, that should be linked to for anyone submitting a new fic.
For some reason, I never really liked indenting my paragraphs. I still do it on school papers, but I never really got the point of it. Personal preference I guess.
853519
That's not a bad idea. I'll talk to knighty about it and see what he thinks.
Shirayuki: I think he's talking about you.
Tundra: Oh, pshaw! I don't have that problem anymore.
So out of an approve queue of sixteen stories, I just failed at least five for this very problem.
epic fimmfyfiction face
Word.
I agree wholeheartedly! An author could write an excellent story full of unexpectedly awesome plot twists and wholesome character development, but if it takes the form of the Great Wall of China in its presentation I doubt anyone save a persistent few will suffer through it in its entirety.
Wall of text, worse than a sext. That's my motto (or at least one of mine).
I still remember a post either knighty or a mod made when someone sent them a PM complaining about how periods and commas would ruin the story, or something like that.
853670
Haha, really? I missed that one. It sounds rad.
The people who complain about separating paragraphs kill me. Like, it's a basic of readable English. Why is it so hard to do?
853359
I think of it as more of a bathtub.
And the ideas scream and thrash around while they drown.
Like kittens or babies.
853670
I'd say it depends on what you're trying to do.
Stream of consciousness is a thing, and so is outsider art. Both violate the standard convention, and it is always a shame when convention becomes law.
853579 I personally agree, but it's more of an opinion thing here. I do not see that indentation is quite as significant, at least when compared to paragraph separation. At least with that added, it makes it easier to read. Indentation does have some significance, especially if you don't double-space paragraphs, but for me, I don't bother with it.
But I couldn't be any happier with this. I'm all for this entire blog; makes me wish we could like blog posts. It's about time we at least did something about this, because it's such a bother nowadays.
853694>>853694
It was something, for sure. The guy was like, "I dont add periods and comas because I'm afread that if i do people will feel intimidated and not want 2 red it so that is y i dont thank u"
And I'm reading this going "whaaa?"
853367
Isn't punctuation?
The fact of the matter is that not everybody's got 'basic knowledge'. Take the magazine Woman's Era, one of the most popular magazines in India. It made its reputation and market by explaining the most obvious in the nicest of ways, and never made its readers feel inferior for failing to know them: it would tell women not to take a crying baby to the cinema and not to walk up and down the aisle with the thing with it screaming or to gently explain to an unexpected caller that the facilities might have been better-prepared if she had prior notice, and never blame the reader for not knowing this in advance. Attacking people who might not see the flaw and calling it 'basic' and 'simple' and 'one of the first things', &c, &c, is at best mean and at worst counterproductive.
The assumption that everyone on Earth - or even every English speaker, and mind you Woman's Era is in English - sees things the exact same way as you do is folly, at the very best.
853686
I'd imagine that really would depend on the story itself. I don't recall it being acceptable form to use a jpeg instead of text either.
It's funny.
I once declared a boycott against fanfiction.net because they deigned to have standards like "no script fics". (This was back when it was pretty much the only place for posting fanfics.)
Nowadays, I welcome any and all standards hereabouts. :B (How times change. I still don't use fanfic.net, though, if only because it's a
wretched hive of scum and villainystain upon the internet.)853720
Presentation of text still contains text. My paragraphs in your example were still separated with line breaks when appropriate.
Also, as in all things (while I'm aware you're being deliberately contrarian), it's important to learn the conventions of a medium before circumventing them, so as to best understand why they're there in the first place.
The second one is worse, to me. It's like the author made the effort to make the text readable, but didn't commit to it fully.
In a way, it's worse than the first one because it's clear the author has an idea of what constitutes something readable.
853730
I'm certainly not implying that the guy in question was anything but a dingbat, mind. I'm just saying that the imposition of conventions as law (like 853694 says) really does just make it seem to be a recipe for overwhelming generalisation, in the same way it's been said that can't write a funny sadfic.
853727
853764
I have no idea what I'm supposed to eke out of this. Are you saying that the convention of indented paragraphs that is ingrained throughout contemporary fiction is 'worse' to you than a continuous flow of text with no separation of lines or thoughts at all?
853766
I see what you meant to communicate, though, and I agree fully.
All rules have room for circumvention, but it's not a leap of logic to assume that people who don't understand paragraph separation or construction would probably benefit from learning what it is and how to exercise it before they work on freeform text arrangement or unconventional writing methods.
853768
One might possibly explain it in terms of why one finds it more awful that the United States might commit atrocities in a war than it is that the Taliban might.
The example made my eyes bleed.
853605 If there are that many bad fics you have to sift through, I deeply thank you and everyone else who helps approve stories here for not deserting us and fleeing to a small island in the Caribbean.
853653 Bravo to that!
(Incidently, I'm one of those persistent few. If I start reading something, I'm going to finish it. But you can expect me to complain about the quality. (Politely, of course, and while pointing out the good parts of the story too.))
Also, this is what my brain did when I read your comment:
[youtube=2euxWiym_fE]
853785
Are you implying you wouldn't want Twilight to have lesbians with Rainbow Dash?
Prude.
853768
Not really. It's more about the author than the text. If the author already knows to indent, then just by looking at the text it's obvious that putting an empty line in between each paragraph will make it easier to look at.
The second one is better than the first, though. I think I worded my original post strangely, and that caused some misunderstanding.
853337
Hallelujah!
853801
You're entitled to your opinion, but I really don't understand this whole 'indents are dumb' thing some people have been saying. That's the way almost all fiction is printed. It's the format for almost all fiction manuscripts. If you sent a copy of your novel to a publisher with line breaks between your paragraphs, they would probably throw it in the garbage.
That being said, line spacing is an issue, but that's adjustable per user, so I don't see how it's a problem.
In any case, I guess it's your preference. But you're right, your original wording was a bit misdirectional.
I know of at least one popular author that unfortunately does not know how to use paragraphs properly. Not for dialogue (which is, funnily enough, completely fine), but for everything else.
853792 I'm implying that the relationship happening the way it is written is about as entertaining as a war movie where all of the wounds have gaudy band-aids and the gunshot noises are replaced with cartoon sound effects. That is to say, it is entertaining, but in the sense of comedy, rather than romance or action.
Point taken.
Did... did we really need a topic on this? I'm a little appalled.