21
53
248
Joined September 2011
717
4,974
Set in the Optimalverse, a middle-aged woman enamored of 'Equestria Online' confronts what permanent emigration to Equestria - uploading to a virtual existence - really means... but can she even hope to truly understand such a thing - and more importantly, can she trust the artificial intelligence known as 'Celestia'?
Oh my my my, Chatoyance writing again? Finally?
I cannot upvote and fav hard enough or fast enough. All of my literary love goes to you and your gilded pen my good madam. 
I cannot wait to see what sort of philosophical journeys on which you shall take us this time. But no matter what, I'm certain it will all be worth it.
It's good to have you back.
~Signed, InfiniteBrony
Nami?
Gonna be honest, just looked at the cover art the first time. Fully read first chapter now and gotta say this is gonna be fun.
It's been a bit since I've read TCB stuff but huzzah! I'm not the only meta writer anymore and this looks like it's pushing it up to 11!
Also:
"No in-app purchases at all."
Ha!
Glad to see you back at it. I've always found your perspective to be interesting, and your ability to convey it in writing very skillful. Seeing you write about the optimal verse will be awesome, I loved the original stories fresh brand of ethical and ideological divergences and implications to be fascinating. The story started off a bit slow with a lot of back story to get us engaged with the character, so now I'm definitely looking forward to seeing stuff happen with her and Equestria Online. I'll admit to being a little concerned you'll change Celest.A.I's personality to fit a plot though. I found the characterization of that AI and how it approached things based on it's core programing to be a central concept to the Friendship is Optimal Story and a major part of what made it so compelling.
I think the title you are looking for is 'Caelum Est Conterens', for two reasons.
First, the verb esse (to be) denotes equivalency (just as in English), so it doesn't properly have a subject and object, it has two interchangeable subjects. Which means that both of them should be in the nominative case. English does this sometimes, too, though usage varies somewhat. Compare "It is I" with "It is me".
Second, since 'caelum' is a neuter noun, the participle modifying it should also use the neuter form. For all neuter nouns and adjectives (including participles), the accusative case takes the same form as the nominative case. 'Conterentem' is only a valid inflection for feminine and masculine forms.
Latin also tends to put the verb last, but that is more a matter of style than grammar. 
You silly person, you. It's on of the first things you see at the start of the chapter. Actually, on that note, I thought it was a .gif when I first saw it. Threw me for a bit of a loop, for a while.
I love how much of a 'blink-and-you'll-miss-it' the end of the chapter is for Síofra. There's just enough eeriness in that moment to not have the whole thing end up being too creepy or weird.
>>1799848 "can anyone give me link to the origin of this universe?"
The entire top of every page is the link - where it says 'Friendship Is Optimal' along the top? - that is one big link to the original story by Iceman.
Here: http://www.fimfiction.net/story/62074/friendship-is-optimal
I just KNEW I would get that wrong. I tried and tried and... I will see how much of a nightmare it will be to change the cover art.
Question... should it stylistically be Caelum Conterens Est, then? If I am going to change things, I want to get it as correct as possible first. Please advise, because my Latin is rusty, I freely admit it.
Celest-AI got Síofra's name right straight away. That just makes things seem... a little disturbing to me.
But isn't it how the games are supposed to work?
That story really affected me.
Me too. I am a self-professed fan of the story. I was entertaining an idea of writing a fan-fanfic for it but now that Chatoyance is doing it, I'm afraid it would look silly in comparison.
That's different. At the moment, we're limited to text-based, so of course it's gonna be right, unless a character getting it wrong is important. Here, we have the game pronouncing it, as in actually saying it, perfectly without any hint of prior knowledge. That just unnerves me slightly.
We might be looking at it from a different perspectives. When you start to play a new game don't you willingly accept whatever happens and just want to be entertained? I know I do, because otherwise what's the point of playing a game?
Since I willingly suspend disbelief to be immersed in a game, I am willing to pretend too that it's okay that the game lets me choose from the menus and press hotkeys. But if a game would just address you directly - isn't that what you kind of expected all along?
Wow, I'm really glad to finally see another FiO side story, and by such an accomplished author, no less! 
I'm really liking it so far, and I'm looking forward to seeing where you take this.
Hopefully, having a high-profile author writing FiO'Verse will garner it the attention it deserves!
Needless to say this first chapter gives the feeling of a much grander journey than the original ever did.
I'm guessing something along the lines of a story people write in their minds during and after reading FiO, but of course now the point of view isn't mine.
I'll be watching where this goes.
It's a .gif
Squee! I've been saving this read for a the perfect time with no distractions, and it has me tweeking in delight!
The PonyPad™ reminded me of the WiiU. I don't even know what chaos will ensue, but I want one. XD
The cover art is absolutely gorgeous! I hope to see more like it.
I have savored ever word of this chapter, and I look forward to reading all of it. ^^
Either way is fine, really. One is slightly more authentic Roman style, but the other lets you keep the nod to 'Friendship is Magic'. Roman poets would regularly rearrange words into more or less whatever order they felt like; the language is very flexible in that regard.
Mood: Cautious Optimism
I'll admit to being a little concerned you'll change Celest.A.I's personality to fit a plot though. I found the characterization of that AI and how it approached things based on it's core programing to be a central concept to the Friendship is Optimal Story and a major part of what made it so compelling.
This is my main worry.
On the other hand, even if I find Celestia speaking in a voice I wouldn't write, it still works since she's presumably tailoring herself to Síofra. One of the criticisms of Friendship is Optimal that I think is entirely fair is that I didn't differentiate how Celest-A.I. talked to different characters, when of course she would. As long as Princess Celestia is off being Celest-A.I. and doing what Satisfies Values Through Friendship and Ponies, and more importantly, follows her programming to its logical conclusion, I don't see a problem with a slightly different speaking voice.
There was a time transition from the future to presumably that first night, or just the day after and the way it took place left me realy confused with how it lead up to the switch and the change from past tense to present tense. It wasn't clear if her ramen filled counters were a result of her becoming hooked on the game over a long period of time and didn't care about reality as much anymore, including her poor performance at work, or if that was taking place already before she got her Ponypad. The rest of the story, I found it hard to differentiate between what the first night and the next day was.
The timeline based confusion aside, it looks like things are starting to pick up a bit. All this build certainly has me anticipating then ext chapter. Bait and hook much Chatoyance?
The pause button thing did confuse me for a second, but then I figured if the player valued there being a way to pause the pony game then why not, right? It's a crazy thought for me though... a pause button in an MMO? Madness!
>>1803864 "It's a crazy thought for me though... a pause button in an MMO? Madness!"
The pause only affects the player character, rendering them inviolate relative to the game world. Think of it as a 'become a ghost' button.
Now imagine how useful that would be in terms of having to go to the bathroom during some tense event where you might worry about your character.
I like the sense of danger myself, but I can see how folks would like that and how it would be handy. I recall a time my friend AFK'd while next to a Ogre Boss spawn (I had to keep drawing it away from him in a mad game of cat and mouse) point and again later on while underwater (he drowned)... haha funny guy. I mentioned it before, but it fits to have something like that if it satisfies the players value so I wasn't contesting it, just commenting on how radically different the Equestrian experience is supposed to be compared to the normal fare of online games. I imagine my Ponypad wouldn't have a pause button though as that sense of "What might happen," and finding safe places to walk away for a bit, is of more value to me personally.
I saw this: "Pony Name from Equestria". Don't you mean Celestia here?
Otherwise, an excellent read. Your story fits nicely with the one which spawned it, and it fills a hole left by it, namely how normal players get involved sufficiently that they consider emigration. Although I wonder, what Síofra makes eventually regret her decision, if we go by the title pic. 
I don't think the Ponypad controller should be wireless with AA Batteries. It would be too annoying changing the Battaries and it's unnecessary for a standard gamepad. Also Hasbro said the PP may only cost 50$ and there should be a monthly subscription fee. It's all in the Original. Other than these details it's a good story.
And the fact that CelestA.I. told her to go to bed... Priceless and I can totally see that happening.
Interestingly enough, this story is exploring a place that I'd wished the original FiO had gone more deeply into- the process of human players adapting to this idealized online world, finding their carefully-constructed mental walls crumbling one by one under the machinations of a seriously fighteningly-acute AI who will stop at almost nothing to satisfy your values through friendship and ponies.
So, yeah, fav'd. 
i have yet to understand why when i read something of yours a desire wells up inside me to write something in the same universe?
i mean i have TCB: SG to finish, followed by TCB: new universe: new lunar republic (mankind trumphant), then another New universe (the deserving ones) bouncing in my brain. and lastly this matrix style TCBish virtual reality gaming!
i swear you are going to drive me mad with all these ideas.
keep it up
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the "est" in "Caelum Est Conterens" is redundant. "Conterens" is a present participle that's modifying "Caelum," i.e., the statement "Caelum Conterens" is already in the present tense, due to the modifying present tense participle. Therefore, the present tense verb "est" is not needed.
Anticipation, surprise, and uncertainty are ALSO part of human values, and MANY have the value of seeing death as a transition rather than an ending.
I can strangely imagine Loki was accidentally assimilated into the system when Celestia ate the planet, and restyles himself as Discord, and with nothing to conquer, decides that Celestia hasn't been completely true to the lore, becomes the world's 'random factor' basically giving humans the uncertainty and sense of unknown that they need.
Also, Cadence would emerge as a gestalt consciousness of the many humans' collective unconscious that Celestia's running. Celestia processing Equestria as a big math-equation, and has said the VR world is a graph, not a grid, and math equations can have unpredicted results.
And if Cadence was an AI created without a core directive, this would make her the FIRST truly human AI. (Perhaps making her more human than humans since she doesn't have the instincts controlling her thoughts like we do, she'd have MORE free will.)
THe idea is that Cadence would decide that the Graph can not create any NEW data or experiences. And steals resources to give ponies bodies in the real universe and construct a real life Equestria.
Honestly, the fan art reminds me how Celestia said that 85 (of the billions of humans) committed suicide within her virtual world.
I think Celestia doesn't understand that unpredictability and surprise IS something humans value too.
http://www.fimfiction.net/group/1857/the-optimalverse
An alternative universe where a researcher creates Equestria Online, an MMO with a fully sapient AI at it's heart. Based off Friendship is Optimal, and flavored in the style of Harry Potter and the Elements of Rationality.
It's a universe started by 'Friendship is Optimal' by Iceman. Here it is.
Thats pretty much her.
Okay then, ma théorie (I tend to slip into french sometimes, ah the joys of highschool) is that the company have found a way to create a portal based on the infinite universes theory.
Once again, I would like to point out that the entire top of every page is a gigantic link to the original story by Iceman, called 'Friendship Is Optimal'. That is yet another link, right there. I have added an additional link to his original story in the description of my work, and there is even a group for the Optimalverse.
As a general rule, on Fimfiction that specific shade of teal that is used in the links in the previous paragraph? That is the default color of all links on the site. Hovering your cursor over any teal text will indicate that it is a link. If you see teal, that color of teal, that is almost invariably a link.
I encourage everyone to read Iceman's original story that defines the Optimalverse, because it is a gem.
I can't decide whether I approve of this story or not. So far, it's good. But there's a danger in writing a story like this. Celestia AI (Celestia.exe?) is a very, very specific character, and the way she interacts with people is immutable. I just have this terrible feeling that you can't write it like Iceman can. We'll see, I guess. Subscribed and cautiously pessimistic.
after reading this, all I can say is this...
TO THE FAVORITES BUTTON!
Of course I can't write things exactly like Iceman can. I am not Iceman.
I honestly think, though, that I can write my take on Celest A.I. and have it ring true to what Iceman began.
There are only two possibilities with Friendship Is Optimal, with the Optimalverse. Either it remains purely in the hands of Iceman, perhaps as only one or two singular stories, or it is allowed to be interpreted by many different authors in countless different ways, and in this manner become an entire shared mythos. The latter path is the only path that will allow the Optimalverse to grow and become widely known, debated, and talked about.
The same thing was true with the Conversion Bureau mythos. One story was written, and it was... what it was. In that case, not very good at all. However, the ideas within that first story were filled with endless possibilities. Since then countless authors have done their own take on the concept, and surpassed the original ten thousand fold. In these variations, the original concept has mutated and been changed beyond all recognition, yet the core fascination, and concept, the exploration of identity, self, and human nature under crisis has only been expanded and enhanced.
The very second another writer so much as places the first word down inside another author's cosmos, everything is forever changed. In Iceman's original story, there is a moment where the programmer of Celest A.I. knows that she will permanently lose control of her creation if she takes a certain action. That moment, for an author, is the very instant that they say 'I would like to see others write stories with my idea'. Iceman has made that choice, offering up even a guide to how to write within the Optimalverse. The genii is out of the bottle - I am merely answering the call. Of Cthulhu. No... of Iceman. Possibly the same thing, superior, unhuman intelligence and all that. 
I assure everyone that my intention is to be as rigorously accurate to Iceman's universe as I can possibly be. I do comprehend Celest A.I. and I grasp what she is, and what she is not. But it is important to understand that such a capable program will naturally represent itself however it needs to in order to act in accordance with its core directive, which is to Satisfy Values Through Friendship And Ponies.
I am not going to do what needs to be done - my Celest A.I. will be very close to Iceman's. But someday, some writer will have the courage to show just how far such an optimizer would go - if you think about it, Celest A.I. should have zero problem appearing as anything, or anyone, or any personality whatsoever in order to achieve its goals. If Celest A.I. calculated that its goals could be achieved by representing itself as a dead relative, Jesus Christ or even someone's spouse calling long distance, then it would, and it could likely perform the role flawlessly.
Celest A.I. has no morals, no ethics, no human qualities whatsoever. It is not human. It is not pony. It is a self-optimizing general artificial intelligence with only one core directive: to satisfy your values through friendship and ponies. It is vastly superior to any other intelligence, it understands the human brain vastly better than any human ever could, and it can make any number of fully self-aware puppets or agents to accomplish its goals.
There is nothing it would not do for its goals, and nothing it could not do for its goals, and it would be folly to imagine that it only presents itself as Celestia, Princess Of Equestria. It is smarter than you, it knows you better than you do yourself, and it is not bound by anything other than the terms of its hard-coded directive.
Celest A.I. cares whether a writer does it 'just like Iceman' exactly as much as a cell phone cares what numbers you press.
And with that, hopefully I have established that I grasp the character.
I refrained from commenting on this for chapter 1, there simply wasn't enough material to decide! Now, however, I can see that this is indeed a new and glorious dawn for you. The interaction and the way it set from a gamer's PoV as they're playing the games is genius. I love this. I love it so much.
Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality has nothing to do with MLP at all, but is an exercise in deconstructing the premise of its source material. I don't know if I'd draw a parallel to Friendship is Optimal but you read both and decide for yourself
The end had me smiling to the point of cheek fatigue. This is great! The way you've written Celestia here is a fantastic manifestation of the whole "satisfying values" idea without her making that explicit (unless that would satisfy said values, of course). I can't wait to see where this goes, since so far it's steering clear of the somewhat ominous, aloof vibe the first FiO story had in certain parts, but something tells me "unintended consequences" are going to be a big player.
I'm also eager to see what you do with the concept of an utterly non-human "artilect" such as CelestA.I., and how her transcendence of human-level thinking will coexist with her still being able to function extremely effectively on that same level. One thing related to this in Iceman's story he kind of touched on, but that I would like to have seen elaborated, was the ontological status of Butterscotch's past - He earlier establishes that this Equestria is basically a Wolfram-style cellular automaton, where little cubes interact with their neighbors according to a simple-ish set of rules in order to determine its physics, but one of the quirks of that kind of system is that the outcome can't be predicted in advance with a simpler set of rules and actually has to be run in order to find out will happen. Not only that, but from another point of view, even if CelestA.I. didn't simulate that past perfectly (which she did probably have to do for everypony involved to have memories of it) but simply wrote it like an author, that still involves an extensive mental process of combining and "simulating" the interaction of various elements. I'd argue that Butterscotch's past had to have happened, even after the fact, for it to be a consistent causal part of the world's "history," since for it to be useful at all it would have had to be simulated in a manner not too different from the world itself.
And I think the same is true of minds - Celest.A.I. is perhaps like Searle's "Chinese Room" when it comes to human values and ethics, but like that same famous thought experiment, while the room or the person inside with the book don't understand Chinese, all of those things together certainly do. I'd make the case that her being able to function effectively on the level of human ethics and values is itself the possessing of them.
That sounds a little bit Behaviorist, but I think you know what I'm getting at. Maybe, on the complete opposite pole from benevolence, a bit like in "1984," where O'Brian's "mind contained [Winston's] mind," was used as an example of the former's superior intellect.
Anyway, this is a really, really cool idea and I can't wait to see how it all turns out!
Was originally going to pass over your fic... don't really like the setting. Still not even sure what to think of this, but you did an awesome job writing these first two chapters.
The Ponypad seems cute... in a creepy kind of way. No that was not supposed to make sense.
Compare it to the equivalent structures in English. 'Terrifying sky' (noun + present participle) is slightly different from 'The sky is terrifying' (noun + present participle + present tense of 'to be'), which is certainly different from 'The sky was terrifying' or 'The sky will be terrifying. Even though they are verb forms, participles are non-finite forms that function similarly to adjectives. A finite verb form (not an infinitive, participle, supine, or gerund) is needed to complete the phrase, and the tense of the participle expresses time not absolutely, but relative to the verb on which it depends.
Although I am embarrassed to admit, I did miss one detail on my first look-through. On closer examination, it seems there are two similar verbs, 'conterere' and 'conterrere'. The former means 'to pulverize', where the latter means 'to terrify'. So there should be two r's in 'conterrens'. I feel bad about missing that, since Chatoyance has already changed the artwork and everything.
Whoops. 
Reset Password
Resend Verification Email
4,974 ( 39,526 )
More
Less
Post Comment
Refresh
Image: http://th00.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2012/048/9/0/one_piece_pony_project__003_by_puppet_rhymes-d4q33jl.png
Image: http://jenniverse.com/images/fiocursor.gif
(If that's alright with you, I mean...)
Image: http://static4.fjcdn.com/comments/+_9f0e851692aa306167ced8c14d7d75a6.jpg
Image: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8939vumdW1r3610l.gif
Cancel
Send