Oh yes. There's a very sad scene after the climax of Equestria Girls, which I only noticed when I watched it again to get a good handle on Sunset's pre-Reformation personality. Sunset used Flash as the focus for her Mass Obedience spell, probably because she had mystically-linked to him because they'd not only made out but to some extent really touched souls. And, after she's defeated and in that pit, he looks down at her with disbelieving contempt.
She did hurt him -- after telling herself that he would be the one "barbarian" she would never hurt, because she found him loveable -- and in doing so, that was when she finally and fully lost him. She might have been able to win him back at any point before that, simply by stopping her cruelties to others. She might at least have repaired her friendship for him. But her ambitions were more important, and of course when she'd gone Nightmare, she wasn't thinking about trivialities such as love.
And at that point, Sunset Shimmer realized that she'd lost everything. She'd been defeated, and she'd lost her only true friend. That's part of why she's weeping so bitterly.
I wonder, what must Flash think of how Sunset's living by herself? I suppose it mustn't be unheard-of, since she managed to register herself for school without any parents anywhere in sight...
It was like the groupsongs that sometimes spontaneously happened back home
Yes, I imagine those are a lot like the spontaneous harmony that sometimes happens between good friends here, only mediated all the more by the herd-instinct and by magic! Wow, how much this hint must bring back to Sunset...
"Oh," he said. "They're not so bad." He smiled. "I'll try to keep on being me, then."
Good answer, Flash. Running with the good side of her point, while deflecting the bad side. And Sunset almost takes it to heart...
6818319 Not to mention her rather forced lie to Rarity in Rainbow Rocks, that Flash was just a stepping stone to her. You can also tell that Rarity doesn't buy that for a second.
I kinda hope that they eventually show Sunset and Flash mending fences.
At a minimum, the way she feels bad about how she treated Flash indicates that she valued him as a person, judges him to be a good man and believes he deserved better treatment from her. She may not have been sexually attracted to him, but well may have liked him as a friend, and feels that she betrayed him by using him for status. Or she may have been sexually-attracted to him, but felt that there was no future because she was going to go back to Equestria in triumph.
Some writers assume that Sunset is sexually amoral, even promiscuous. This doesn't fit well with my concept of her background. She's originally an Equestrian of the scholar-gentry class, just like Twilight Sparkle (indeed, Rainbow Rocks makes much of the fact that the two mares are Not So Different) and my concept of that subculture is that such Ponies tend to have strong senses of sexual honor.
Plus, she's immersed in an alien culture, among non-Ponies. I don' t think she'd get sexual with such a being unless she really, really liked him.
Of course, if she did really like anyone before her reformation, it would have been Flash Sentry. Rarity herself provides the information that they were an "item," which implies more than a few casual dates. She thinks that Sunset will want revenge on Flash and Twilight, but notably Sunset doesn't seem to really hate Flash at any point in or after Equestria Girls. Whatever happened between them, Sunset was left with a good opinion of Flash Sentry.
Sunset spent a lot of time with Flash, and she must have shown him the better side of her nature, because he broke it off with her because she became crueller. They must have shared interests, been friends in addition to whatever they did romantically or sexually. I posit that what they shared was an interest in music, specifically lyric poetry and the guitar.
Flash is an exceptionally nice guy in canon, and I portray him as such in this tale. He's nice in ways which are totally in accord with the Equestrian concept of virtues (in Chapter 4: "Breakthrough", he shows sexual restraint, which is a major romantic turn-on to any mare sharing Equestrian values, and causes an almost-disbelieving Sunset, who was previously worried he might try to rape her, to re-evaluate her prejudices, at least where he is personally concerned), which is why Twilight Sparkle falls for him; Sunset Shimmer falls for him for the same reasons, because her fundamental values are quite similar to Twilight's even though Sunset has lost her way.
One of the points of this story is that Sunset Shimmer, before her reformation, was terribly lonely. She had minions, allies, dupes and rivals. She had, until she met Flash, no friends. Flash wants her sexually, yes, but he also wants to be her friend. That is what is reaching through the armor of arrogance Sunset wears, to touch her heart.
She sometimes forgets he's not an Equestrian stallion. When she almost gives herself to him, she thinks of him as her "Special Somepony" and her "stallion." She's forgetting that he's a "mere barbarian."
I have to agree that while Sunset Shimmer might have indeed being using Flash because he was just the local alpha male, I think she can't admit to herself that she still liked him... and then lost any hope of ever being with him again, and she has no one to blame but herself.
Sometimes we Become the Mask, especially when the Mask involves being with someone Sunset finds admirable, someone whom she would see absolutely nothing wrong with loving were he an Equestrian Pony.
The irony is this. Sunset actually has less in common with Pony Flash Sentry than she does with Humanoid Flash Sentry. Though she doesn't know this, because in this story she's never met Pony Flash Sentry.
a) why isn't Sunset impressed with Human technology? isn't more advanced than Equestrian's one? not bad for a race of barbarians b) will Sunset consider someday share her research about magic with humanity?
6822848 Sunset is definitely an unreliable narrator. I think a big part of why she seems so strongly to believe that humans are mostly barbaric rapists is because she is afraid if she allows herself to admire the human world to much, it will be harder for her to go home, and especially hard for her to use humans as pawns in her plans. By constantly telling herself humanity sucks, it's a lot easier to justify acting selfishly.
This almost engaging in reproductive activity reminds me about something:
When we switched from oviparity to viviparity in the Early Cretaceous, we had to start periodically relining our uterii so that embryos would have a suitable substrate for embedding. Some eutherian mammals (placental mammals), including Perissodactyls evolved the ability to recycle their uterine lining. Unfortunately, primates must discharge their uterine lining.
It seems plausible that Sunset Shimmer might start to menstruate before she learns about menstruation. I wonder what her response would be to apparently hemorrhaging through her reproductive tract.
he was such a sweet ape-thing, maybe if this had been Equestria and he had been Pony, she might have -- she didn't know, but she knew she really liked his company.
LOL. Don't worry Sunset, there's a real pony analog back home who you can have a second chance with. Yet another reason for you to return to Equestria, no?
And at that point, Sunset Shimmer realized that she'd lost everything. She'd been defeated, and she'd lost her only true friend. That's part of why she's weeping so bitterly.
Well... that's headcanon. She was weeping for a loss much more existential than 1 guy. She was weeping at the shattering of the very identity she had built up for herself while justifying the wayward existence she had led up to that point.
You can say that Flash was a small part of it, when the sword of Harmony broke her barriers open to full realization. Canonically he's definitely not the defining cause, though.
6818426 You've read that body language very differently from me. It's not a lie. I don't hate Flash at all, btw.
At a minimum, the way she feels bad about how she treated Flash indicates that she valued him as a person, judges him to be a good man and believes he deserved better treatment from her.
At a minimum, she felt bad talking about Flash because she now understands that she should value all people as persons. Her remorse isn't specific to Flash. You can interpret it as specific to him especially, but it's an interpretation.
Some writers assume that Sunset is sexually amoral, even promiscuous. This doesn't fit well with my concept of her background.
Those fics are indeed worthless.
but notably Sunset doesn't seem to really hate Flash at any point in or after Equestria Girls. Whatever happened between them, Sunset was left with a good opinion of Flash Sentry.
Or, she didn't bother wasting time on him during EQG 1 because he was irrelevant. In-universe, in-meta, plot-wise, character-wise... he was an irrelevant character in EQG 1. Sunset had much more important things to deal with.
6829753 I remember reading just such a FiMfic, of course.
And end the end, she hurts him enough for him to break up with her.
6818281
Oh yes. There's a very sad scene after the climax of Equestria Girls, which I only noticed when I watched it again to get a good handle on Sunset's pre-Reformation personality. Sunset used Flash as the focus for her Mass Obedience spell, probably because she had mystically-linked to him because they'd not only made out but to some extent really touched souls. And, after she's defeated and in that pit, he looks down at her with disbelieving contempt.
She did hurt him -- after telling herself that he would be the one "barbarian" she would never hurt, because she found him loveable -- and in doing so, that was when she finally and fully lost him. She might have been able to win him back at any point before that, simply by stopping her cruelties to others. She might at least have repaired her friendship for him. But her ambitions were more important, and of course when she'd gone Nightmare, she wasn't thinking about trivialities such as love.
And at that point, Sunset Shimmer realized that she'd lost everything. She'd been defeated, and she'd lost her only true friend. That's part of why she's weeping so bitterly.
I wonder, what must Flash think of how Sunset's living by herself? I suppose it mustn't be unheard-of, since she managed to register herself for school without any parents anywhere in sight...
Yes, I imagine those are a lot like the spontaneous harmony that sometimes happens between good friends here, only mediated all the more by the herd-instinct and by magic! Wow, how much this hint must bring back to Sunset...
Good answer, Flash. Running with the good side of her point, while deflecting the bad side. And Sunset almost takes it to heart...
... and yes. Friendship Is Magic.
6818319
Not to mention her rather forced lie to Rarity in Rainbow Rocks, that Flash was just a stepping stone to her. You can also tell that Rarity doesn't buy that for a second.
I kinda hope that they eventually show Sunset and Flash mending fences.
6818426
I've wondered myself about Sunset's statement.
At a minimum, the way she feels bad about how she treated Flash indicates that she valued him as a person, judges him to be a good man and believes he deserved better treatment from her. She may not have been sexually attracted to him, but well may have liked him as a friend, and feels that she betrayed him by using him for status. Or she may have been sexually-attracted to him, but felt that there was no future because she was going to go back to Equestria in triumph.
Some writers assume that Sunset is sexually amoral, even promiscuous. This doesn't fit well with my concept of her background. She's originally an Equestrian of the scholar-gentry class, just like Twilight Sparkle (indeed, Rainbow Rocks makes much of the fact that the two mares are Not So Different) and my concept of that subculture is that such Ponies tend to have strong senses of sexual honor.
Plus, she's immersed in an alien culture, among non-Ponies. I don' t think she'd get sexual with such a being unless she really, really liked him.
Of course, if she did really like anyone before her reformation, it would have been Flash Sentry. Rarity herself provides the information that they were an "item," which implies more than a few casual dates. She thinks that Sunset will want revenge on Flash and Twilight, but notably Sunset doesn't seem to really hate Flash at any point in or after Equestria Girls. Whatever happened between them, Sunset was left with a good opinion of Flash Sentry.
Sunset spent a lot of time with Flash, and she must have shown him the better side of her nature, because he broke it off with her because she became crueller. They must have shared interests, been friends in addition to whatever they did romantically or sexually. I posit that what they shared was an interest in music, specifically lyric poetry and the guitar.
Flash is an exceptionally nice guy in canon, and I portray him as such in this tale. He's nice in ways which are totally in accord with the Equestrian concept of virtues (in Chapter 4: "Breakthrough", he shows sexual restraint, which is a major romantic turn-on to any mare sharing Equestrian values, and causes an almost-disbelieving Sunset, who was previously worried he might try to rape her, to re-evaluate her prejudices, at least where he is personally concerned), which is why Twilight Sparkle falls for him; Sunset Shimmer falls for him for the same reasons, because her fundamental values are quite similar to Twilight's even though Sunset has lost her way.
One of the points of this story is that Sunset Shimmer, before her reformation, was terribly lonely. She had minions, allies, dupes and rivals. She had, until she met Flash, no friends. Flash wants her sexually, yes, but he also wants to be her friend. That is what is reaching through the armor of arrogance Sunset wears, to touch her heart.
She sometimes forgets he's not an Equestrian stallion. When she almost gives herself to him, she thinks of him as her "Special Somepony" and her "stallion." She's forgetting that he's a "mere barbarian."
Sadly for her, it's not enough.
6818319
I have to agree that while Sunset Shimmer might have indeed being using Flash because he was just the local alpha male, I think she can't admit to herself that she still liked him... and then lost any hope of ever being with him again, and she has no one to blame but herself.
6818554
Sometimes we Become the Mask, especially when the Mask involves being with someone Sunset finds admirable, someone whom she would see absolutely nothing wrong with loving were he an Equestrian Pony.
The irony is this. Sunset actually has less in common with Pony Flash Sentry than she does with Humanoid Flash Sentry. Though she doesn't know this, because in this story she's never met Pony Flash Sentry.
6818559
a) why isn't Sunset impressed with Human technology? isn't more advanced than Equestrian's one? not bad for a race of barbarians
b) will Sunset consider someday share her research about magic with humanity?
6822848 Sunset is definitely an unreliable narrator. I think a big part of why she seems so strongly to believe that humans are mostly barbaric rapists is because she is afraid if she allows herself to admire the human world to much, it will be harder for her to go home, and especially hard for her to use humans as pawns in her plans. By constantly telling herself humanity sucks, it's a lot easier to justify acting selfishly.
This almost engaging in reproductive activity reminds me about something:
When we switched from oviparity to viviparity in the Early Cretaceous, we had to start periodically relining our uterii so that embryos would have a suitable substrate for embedding. Some eutherian mammals (placental mammals), including Perissodactyls evolved the ability to recycle their uterine lining. Unfortunately, primates must discharge their uterine lining.
It seems plausible that Sunset Shimmer might start to menstruate before she learns about menstruation. I wonder what her response would be to apparently hemorrhaging through her reproductive tract.
LOL. Don't worry Sunset, there's a real pony analog back home who you can have a second chance with. Yet another reason for you to return to Equestria, no?
6818319
Well... that's headcanon. She was weeping for a loss much more existential than 1 guy. She was weeping at the shattering of the very identity she had built up for herself while justifying the wayward existence she had led up to that point.
You can say that Flash was a small part of it, when the sword of Harmony broke her barriers open to full realization. Canonically he's definitely not the defining cause, though.
6818426
You've read that body language very differently from me. It's not a lie.
I don't hate Flash at all, btw.
6818472
At a minimum, she felt bad talking about Flash because she now understands that she should value all people as persons. Her remorse isn't specific to Flash. You can interpret it as specific to him especially, but it's an interpretation.
Those fics are indeed worthless.
Or, she didn't bother wasting time on him during EQG 1 because he was irrelevant. In-universe, in-meta, plot-wise, character-wise... he was an irrelevant character in EQG 1. Sunset had much more important things to deal with.
6829753
I remember reading just such a FiMfic, of course.
Cue Twilight Sparkle EQG1 freakout?