Celestia spends a night thinking about what Twilight becoming a princess and alicorn would mean, as well as if she is desiring her faithful students transformation for her own gain.
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- Member Since 31st Mar, 2014
- offline last seen 11 hours ago
vitagox
So I've finally got a drive to write some stories I hope they are enjoyable!
vitagox
Joined 31st Mar, 2014 ·
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an interesting short story. I wonder what would happen if Twilight ever read that bit of the journal?
5818527 Probably one heck of an explosion if she ever found out that becoming an alicorn meant being immortal, and therefore outliving the friends that she loves so much, I would imagine.
5818613 depends when she gets hold of it
What a great reflective piece for Celestia! As a princess and Twilight's teacher (who sees Starswirl in her and more), you would think Celestia has had to shoulder a lot of uncertainty during the course of the season leading up to Twilight's coronation. So this is an interesting take on that.
My main suggestion, though, would be to space out the prose a bit. You have a lot of great detail and description throughout, but it should improve readability to break up the longer paragraphs into shorter ones.
Hope that helps!
5818621 True.
The thing is, though...these kind of "Twilight will be immortal when she becomes an alicorn, and will live on while her friends die around her" kind of fics kind of make me a bit uncomfortable, knowing what the producers and staff of MLP have said, more than once, in their Facebook and Twitter pages, and other places, about her not being immortal, and not outliving her friends.
What makes me even more uncomfortable, though, is the fact that, if in a good many of these, as in the show itself, Celestia seems to be unilaterally making this kind of decision for Twilight, without even once asking her if that's what she wants in her life. It's just like she thinks that she knows what's best for Twilight's future, rather than asking Twilight what she (Twilight) wants to do with her life.
Did she ever once ask Twilight about her plans for her future, or what she wants to do? No. Has she ever once stopped to think, "Hey, maybe I should ask Twilight what she wants for her future, and see how things go for her that way. Maybe I shouldn't meddle in her life, and let her be her own person."? Again, no. As the title of this story points out, she's doing all this for her own selfish reasons, just as much, if not more, than she is because she sees Twilight as worthy of ascension.
Not that she isn't worthy of if; I'm not saying that, I honestly think that she is...however; I just think that, as this is her life, that what Celestia should have done, even before she set Twilight's hooves on the path she's on now, was to lay out what everything connected to being an alicorn could entail...the pluses and the minuses, and let Twilight make the call on what she wanted out of her life. But has she ever just sat Twilight down and done that?
In a single word, no.
Whether it's in the show itself, or a good many of these fics (and some fanart that I've seen, as well), she has never, ever (that I've seen, anyway) had the guts to just sit her most faithful student down and fully explain everything that being an alicorn, and therefore possibly immortal, truly means.
My theory as to why? She's probably afraid that doing so will result in Twilight, who likely values her friendship with all the girls even more than she does her relationship to her at this point, won't take it well. (Well, would you if you were informed, "Hey, guess what?! You're going to be immortal and live forever, and your friends, who you love like family, are all going to die someday, and you won't! Ever!!!" (I don't know about you guys, but speaking for myself, I'd be pretty pissed!))
And I, for one, wouldn't blame her (Twilight, that is) one little bit.
Which is just exactly why, if I ever end up following the canon stuff of the show beyond the Season 3 episode, MMMystery on the Friendship Express, in any of my fics, and I do have Twilight as an alicorn in them (a lot of my stuff will likely wind up being mildly to wildly AU in these cases, just to be honest. But, that said, even if I don't really like her as an alicorn, in all honesty, I likely will write her as one, sooner or later), she will not; I repeat, not be written as immortal.
The reason? I just don't think that she actually is, or will be, where the show is concerned.
But that's just my take on it.
5818718 having mortal and immortal alicorns just makes things very convoluted. I rather go with all being immortal and the Royal Sister's current form is do to the sheer power they have. Power that in time both Cadance and Twilight will have.
At best Celestia guided Twilight the way to be an alicorn but only Twilight could do it. Not Telling Twilight the possibllity goes back to what this story protrays. Starswirl said no here.
Both here and in the show Celestia and Twilight have a mother daughter relationship and considering all Celestia has lost you can't really blame her for her actions and she's willing to deal with it. Will there be a rough spot? yes, defiantly if Twilight reads that entry, but they will have eternity to make amends.
While Twilight being immortal while her friends grow old and die is great character development the end of season 4 brought an new element into the picture. The girls have the elements literally in them now and who knows what that has done to them. I could have very well made them immortal as well. Not alicorns but immortal none the less.
5818718 I think part of the problem with that is that Twilight doesn't seem to have any sense of self that isn't linked to pleasing the princess. She had that royal freakout in "Lesson Zero" because she might turn in an assignment late, or told Fluttershy that Celestia might banish her for taking Philomena.
Twilight loves her friends, but she also wants to make Celestia happy above all else, so "Yer a
wizard, Harryprincess, Twilight" is all fine and dandy for her, because it would make Celestia happy. It's just a new batch of lessons to cram into her head. Celestia assigns Twilight 22 books to read over a weekend? Awesome!It WOULD be nice to see Twilight actually stand up to Celestia once or twice, instead of being so afraid of disapproval.
Should Twilight be mad at Celestia? Hmmm, maybe. But don't forget that Twilight HAS been a personal student of Celestia for years. Going from my Harry Potter reference above, if Harry got personal lessons from Dumbledore it sets a high standard in your mind to live up to. So becoming a princess is simply the next logical step to approaching the greatness of her mentor. She TRUSTS Celestia to take her down a "safe" path, for a given definition of safe. Twilight makes her own decisions only so long as she's within the boundaries of what Celestia sets for her.
You do bring up a good point, though. Twilight, while skilled, is not quite ready to RULE someplace. As seen in certain episodes she can let her emotions run away with her, is still young, and is still learning a great deal, hence why, post transformation, Twilight is mainly in the background of season 4 and STUDYING how to do her role properly instead of actually COMMANDING anyone.
5818747 Well, those are good points, I'll admit that. All of them.
And you actually have a very good point with that last paragraph. (Which kinda brings up a different kind of conundrum for the girls later on, but I'm not gonna get into that right now.)
And honestly (can you tell that there's certain orange farm-pony hangin' over my shoulder today with all that?.
), concerning that bit you said about this:
is something that I'm working on in some of my stories, actually.
Without giving anything away (
), I'm trying to get it so that, once (if) it ever reaches a point in my fics where they have to give their physical Elements (the gemstones) back to the Tree of Harmony at a later date, they will have kept them long enough that they, as you say above, literally become part of them.
Heck, my description of Dash in this matter in one of my fics is that she is "Loyalty Incarnate".
So there you go.
5818897 Hmmm, well put.
And good points, those. Good points, indeed.
5818909 personally I would have gone for the box to contain a new set of elements, ones weaker then the original right now but grow as powerful over time. But hey it is what it is.
I'd be interested in reading that fic.
So that's my take on the story. As for the writing itself it could use a bit more work. Some of the descriptions could be better. You tend to shift between present tense and past tense sometimes. The parapraphs, as another user said, are a bit long and could do to be spread up into smaller chunks.
There are other minor grammatical errors, like missing comma's, or starting what should be a new sentence with a comma and a lowercase letter. If you'd like I'll edit it for you through Google docs. I don't know if you've ever used it, but instead of simply doing corrections you can post suggestions linked to the revelant word/line/parapragh of the story, which is highlighted, with the suggestion posted on the side of the story. After all, if you don't actually SEE your errors how can you fix them?
I'm about to go get me some lunch, but when I get back I'll do that for you.
Welcome to Fimfiction! At least welcome as a writer, not a reader.
5818718 You're assuming that Celestia caused Twilight's transformation. However the blob of magic that transformed her came from Twilight's own chest. So one interpretation is that Twilight's own magic triggered the transformation. Celestia merely recognized early on that it was going to happen and ensured that she was in a safe and comfortable place when it happened.
I'm not suggesting that it's the only valid interpretation, but it seems to work. And it's quite a nice theory too.
5818941 Hmmm, tht'a very good point, and would probably have made better sense than just giving Twilight a new, tree-shaped palace made out of crystal.
(Heh, copying Cadance and Shining much, Twi?)
Well, once I get it written (which may be awhile from now; I'm kinda wound up in the once I'm currently working on), it'll definitely be up here.
5818958 Well, given that I've never seen that ep from Season 3, no, I'm not, really.
My point is that, even though Celestia didn't personally cause said transformation to happen, she was steering Twilight's path that way, from what I've seen of the show.
And she knew, in a general way, what would happen, once Twilight successfully completed Star Swirls' unfinished spell.
So, to use your own point:
She did know that this would happen, and she consciously steered Twilight toward this result.
That was what I was trying to say.
What I was also trying to say is that she never once sat Twilight down, and asked her what she wanted to do with her life; she just went ahead, once she saw how powerful Twilight's magic was, and how great her talent for it was, and started steering her down this path.
Mother-daughter relationship or not, she never once; never once; during all the stuff that Twilight and the girls went through leading up to Magical Mystery Cure (I think that's what its title is), told Twilight just what the ramifications of what her ascension would be, or gave her the choice to say, "No, Princess. I'm flattered that you think that I'm worthy of that, but I don't want to outlive my family, and especially not the five friends that mean more to me than my own life. I don't want to be a princess. although I'm very, very honored, and thank you so much for thinking of me for that; and I definitely don't want to outlive those I love. Thank you for that, but no. I like my life as it is."
Granted, knowing Twi the way we all do, she probably wouldn't say that to Celestia, but, if it were me that were in her horseshoes?
Well, I'd be more than a little upset and angry if someone like Celestia just up and unilaterally decided that they were gonna plan out my whole life for me, without consulting me on it first.
That's what I was actually trying to say.
5818958 I think it was a double effort. Celestia only sparked what was already inside Twilight. She can't just light up her horn and turn every pony into alicorns. They have to have a certain "something" that makes them worthy of the upgrade. Hence, all of Twilight's friendship lessons.
5819020 Celestia is not perfect. Nightmare Moon proves that. But I think that Twilight has touched Celestia in a way no pony but Luna has. THis version even emits it being a little selfish in that thus it will be a sore point if Twilight learns of this. But Celesita feels it's worth it.
5819032 I never said that she was, and that's true.
And that's true, but that was not my point at all.
Although I definitely agree with you on the "Celestia being selfish" thing. (Hence the story's title, as we both know.)
What I've been saying is that, once Twilight was an adult (heaven knows that she wouldn't have understood such a thing when she was little. I don't think.), if Celestia loves her as much as the series shows that she seems to, she would have chosen the high road, sat her down and fully explained things to her.
Possibly after she'd gone to Ponyville, met the girls and become such fast friends with them, but nonetheless, sat her down, fully explained things and given her a choice.
That's why I think that Twilight would be beyond angry when she finds this journal (and knowing Twi, you just know that she will, eventually), and finds out that Celestia, the pony that, as everyone has pointed out, that she respects so highly, never told her the consequences of ascending.
Whether Celestia thinks that it was worth it, or not.
Again, that's the point that I'm trying to make.
Not whether or not that Celestia thinks that Twilight deserves it (she does), or is worth it (she is), but that she didn't even give her the choice to make that decision herself.
That's my point.
5818718
The usual quote is "Twilight will not outlive her friends" but we have to keep in mind that Celestia and Luna (and Discord) are also her friends, which leaves open the possibility of immortal Twilight. If she couldn't ever get over her friends' passing (or make new friends), she'd really have learned nothing about friendship after all. Or what happens when her friends move away? Dash to the Wonderbolts, Rarity to Canterlot or Manehattan, etc.? Moving on is itself a friendship lesson.
5819362 I...guess you're right.
Okay, I give up. Sorry that I couldn't get my point across.
Bye, folks.
desires
others
5819362 The producers meant her ponyville friends dumb#$$.
5819368
You're very right - Twilight will be angry, certainly. I was just offering alternatives.
5819550
Again, offering alternatives. Not everything the producers say matters.
5819550 Exactly what I was talking about! So thank you for being the one to get what I meant when I said "her friends".
I was never talking about Celestia, Luna or Discord. I was talking about Applejack, and the other girls.
The Mane 5, if you will.
Oh, but everyone in Ponyville counts, too, of course. I just meant those 5 specifically.
5819628 Okay, fine.
On that note, oh, really?
Well, then, given that they are the only ones who know exactly everything to do with the episodes, storylines etc.; I guess that we should just ignore anything and everything that they say as totally irrelevant, huh?
Okay.
5819788
Lauren Faust didn't want Twilight to be an alicorn, or for Cadance to be a pink princess. What I mean is, things change. That's why we have to take the Word of God with a grain of salt.
5819897 That may be true, but she isn't part of the show's staff anymore, so while that part of it is true, she isn't the one behind what's going on with the series anymore
And if I remember right, it was also Cadance who, according to Lauren, wasn't supposed to be an alicorn, either. She was supposed to be, pink or not, only a unicorn, like Twilight, and Shining. But the Big Wigs at Hasbro wanted her design changed at the last minute so they could sell more "pretty pink pony princess" toys to the kids.
Which I rather imagine is the same reason that Twilight wound up being one herself, at the end of Season 3. To sell dolls of her that way. No more, no less.
And on another note, I'm not entirely sure just what that crack about the "Word of God" that you made meant, but as a life-long Christian, I'm more than a little offended, so consider our conversation closed on that note.
Mainly because I, for one, am getting tired of talking in circles with you. You seem to think that what you say is the only acceptable opinion about Twilight not outliving her (Ponyville) friends, and I am done with trying to make a point.
So, this conversation is done, and I would greatly appreciate it if you wouldn't reply back to me.
Okay? We done? Okay.
Holy Wall of Text, Batman!
This fic could well be fine, but I can't read it. All the paragraphs need to be broken up, I'd prefer slightly larger spacing, and honestly the writing itself has some technical and stylistic flaws which make it hard to associate it with Celestia.
5820044
Wow. Word of God is a common phrase regarding how the creators of a piece of media comment upon said media outside of the setting. Word of God tends to be considered at a near-canon-but-not-quite level. The fact that you are ignorant enough to make this about religion really shows how little understanding of a discussion like this you have.
5820169 Oh, so I'm ignorant for "making this about religion", huh? Wow.
Well, thank you so much for enlightening ignorant l'il ol' me on that, hoss!
Because, whether you like it, or approve of it (and I really could give a flaming rat's rip less at this point if you do, or not (and yes, Christian or not, I do have a temper!)), for the majority of us older folks, the term "Word of God" means His word; AKA the Holy Bible.
So deal with it.
Okay, I'm so done with this whole conversation, and I actually have better things to do that mince words with someone who thinks that they can call me "ignorant" for something that I didn't even know about!
Oh, and if you'd actually read what you quoted from what I said there, you would have read this:
So, next time, read it all, okay? It'll save you getting someone ticked at you.
End of conversation.
Goodbye.
My only suggestion would be to space out the paragraphs. People get turned off by walls of text, and this story has them in spades.
Other than that though, I liked it a lot. Well done.
I apologize to the author for any part I may have played in taking the comment section off-track with discussions that should have taken place via PMs between the interested parties.
Back on topic:
Very good first foray into the genre! It's easy to write a journal entry or letter (epistolary) and make it the entire fic; it's a more difficult job to weave them into a narrative, or in this case a psychological exploration, and do so convincingly. You've done it well here, with only a few minor typos.
Food for further thought:
Given how much the kingdom and Luna in particular owes Twilight, why does Luna think this? Has she seen Celestia be too indulgent with her students / favorites before? Was Luna herself guilty of this at some point in the past? Does Luna not trust Twilight, or does she fear her? Or perhaps has she seen something in Twilight's dreams (or Celestia's!) that gives her pause? So many possibilities you've left us with - hope to see more from you soon!
5819628 Yes it does.
I wasn't quite expecting the debate to get out of control like that or to stir up a debate in the first place. I don't wish to continue it, but I am a bit flattered that this little piece caused such to start. I do ask though that people at least keep it a bit civil, because we are all in the same community here and we're just wanting to enjoy stories, there isn't any need to cause strife among us. ^^