It was a nice day in the dragon lands and all was good. Princess Ember sat upon her small (by dragon standards) throne, enjoyed a nice pair of rubies and pondered how best to spend this evening. Being a dragon lord was amazing. Not only did everyone do exactly as you asked, dragons in maturity were such isolationists, they hardly ever needed things outside of small disputes and petty quarrels during the migration. So far, Ember had just decided on what kind of gems she would get during annual tribute and that her father's pension should not include any lapis lazuli (at least until he apologized for not getting her a doll for her fourth birthday, the lazy drake!).
Suddenly magic flashed and four giant dragons jumped onto her.
"SECURITY!" Came Ember's muffled scream from below the pile "GET THE SECURITY OFF ME!"
The guards got up and helped the smushed lord up. "I need smaller protectors!" She decided as said guards retreated with apologetic smiles on their faces.
"Oh, it wouldn't help, my dear. What they can't cover in size, they will make up in mass. During our recent assassination attempt, I had 15 of them on me..." The alabaster alicorn that had appeared in the panic inducing flash of magic stated casually. Another, smaller alicorn was beside her, though she was deep blue. "And all because the window cleaner had come early..."
The dragon lord shook her head and looked at the newcomers. "Oh..." she said "You must be the alicorn princesses of Equestria."
"INDEED THAT IS TRUTH!" Luna explained in full Canterlot voice "WE ART THE PROTECTORS OF EQUESTRIA, THE GUARDIANS OF SUN AND MOON AND THY FELLOW ROYALTY! WE HATH COME TO CONGRATULATE THEE FOR THY BECOMING THE NEW DRAGON LORD!"
Ember picked herself off the ground. She had not expected to be knocked over by the sheer voice of a pony. "Very nice to meet you, I guess." She answered, her ears ringing slightly. "What brings you princesses here?"
"Oh, hasn't old Torch told you?" Celesstia asked with a smile "He can be such a goof. I bet he instantly went on a vacation after the scepter was gone... probably in a huge lava lake with a stash of lapis lazuli in on claw and your mother in the other..."
Ember shook with disgust at the picture. "No, he didn't tell me much. Anyways, why are you here?"
"Oh, we visit every dragon lord after they have had a chance to settle in. You know, we get to know each other, talk official things..." Celestia explained cheerfully.
"I see..." Ember answered carefully. While this pony was bigger than her, she was smaller than father. Why would she know him so... well. "If this is about tribute or begging not to be conquered, don't worry, I won't ask anything of you. I won't be a bully."
Luna covered her mouth as she let out a very small giggle. Celestia's features remained calm. "Oh, that is very good to hear. I wish your father was this diplomatic on our first meeting. Gosh, I still remember him screaming at me how I should submit and prepare to be crushed under his claw and such... hillarious in retrospect."
"What?" Ember deadpanned.
"You see, most dragon lords instantly plan to enslave basically everything around the dragon lands when they get into power." Celestia said with a gentle smile. "Posturing and laughing and being completely enraptured with their own sense of importance. You should have seen your father, dear, he was poofing his chest out so much, it entered his cave an hour before the rest of him. Adorable..."
Suddenly Princess Luna leaned over to her sister. "Sis, can I go first this time?"
"Oh, of course, Luna." Celestia said with a smile "I simply adore how melodramatic you can be..."
Luna let out a small squee and made a step forward. "LORD OF THE DRA-"
"Please, no more shouting!" Ember yelled "I won't hear your sister's proposal if you deafen me first!"
The moon princess pouted. "Fine... Dragon lord Ember. I am Luna, the princess of the night, guide of the moon and maiden of sleep. I watch over the realm of dreams and rest, guiding all sentient creatures through its tides."
Ember nodded. She had heard her father say that dreaming used to be way more fun a thousand years ago and ever since that thing on the moon was gone, things seemed to work out better indeed.
"And while I take a neutral stance in this duty, never chosing to ignore the needs of anyone due to their nature, alignment or any other reason, I do care about the subjects in the waking world. You can not directly control all dragons in the world, that is their nature..."
The sky darkened suddenly.
"BUT should you ever ORDER your dragons to hurt my little ponies..."
Shadows became longer and seemed to grow claws.
"Then you and your people shall not know a peaceful night of rest again! I have seen into the dreams of the twisted and the deranged, I wandered the realms of nightmares and trust me, I have looked into the abyss. I can create creatures who only live to torture the dreaming. To make each night a living hell. And you will live through things that would kill you in the real world. Not your scales, not your fire and not your claws will save you for in the dreaming, you are MINE!"
The darkness retreated and the everything was normal again.
"But do not worry about it, you had no intention to hurt anypony anyways..."
Ember slowly crawled out from behind her throne, her whole body trembling, her eyes wide and her wings stuck firmly to her back. And the had thought that GETTING the scepter was scary...
"Very impressive Luna... you never cease to amaze me. A little melodramatic in the end though..." Celestia added with a gentle giggle.
"It's a gift..."
"Anyways, dragon lord Ember, I am Celestia, Princess of the sun, ruler of Equestria and guider of- I think you get it. Let me be quick... The sun is hot. Very hot." Celestia said, her smile never wavering "So hot in fact, it is beyond our regular terran physical states. If I ever had a reason, I might just pull it a little closer and suddenly an entire kingdom evaporates, no matter how though their scales are. And I could even break off a hoof-full, which would to just as much to singular targets. Why, one would need an entire legion of slaves to abuse my good nature to ever consider waging war against us..."
"I get it." Ember responded.
"We are very glad. Sorry to just appear like that and surprise you." Celestia added smiling "Now.. We won't take up any more of your time. Feel free to send us as many letters as you want. I like to keep in touch with my allies. And tell your father that I said hello. AND Knight from E4 to F6. Spares me a letter. Have a wonderful day..."
"That move will ruin your game, Tia. Take hi-"
A flash of magic and the two ponies were gone.
Ember was silent for a long time, staring ahead, understanding... understanding a lot.
As amusing as that was i feel they could have done a bit more them embarrass and threaten her.
I can see this. luna would definitely do it as described, admittedly I think Celestia is a little OOC but this could just be the way that she has to be since subtle doesn't seem to be in the dragonic language.
Ah yes, diplomacy at its finest.
cease
That was entertaining, although I think that the Princesses - or at least one of them - really should have stayed longer to at least offer reasons why a closer relationship with Equestria might be desirable in addition to their deterrent message.
7149997 They basically left quickly to let it all sink in before setting up contact later. Ember would certainly need some time to stomach it all.
7149842 But this wasn't about embarassing or threatening. This was a nice discussion why its a very bad idea to get agressive towards others. The princesses LIKE Ember. I tried to imply that it was by far worse with daddy Torch.
7149853 What use is a nuke when nobody knows that you have one?
7149848 The latter. Dragons are a rough sort (from what Celly knows) and this isn't having a deal with Saddle Arabia. This is showing your guns so you never have to use them.
7150191 it may have just been that I wished for more that I took it the way I did, Either way I did enjoy it, and in the long run thats all that matters.
7150197 I'm glad to hear that
7150191 What use is a secret doomsday weapon indeed.
Woops did I drop that solar flair on your kingdom, my bad
-trollestia
ugh, God Mode Sues.
Look, Celestia got her arse kicked by a horse sized bug. And Luna nearly got whipped by her own Tantabus. Twilight, with the power of FOUR alicorns, still could barely MATCH Tirek. They weren't even up to snuff against a Crystal Empire blizzard. You writers are going to have to restrain your God-Mode Sue boners and admit that, while the Princesses are vastly powerful, they are FAR from omnipotent-- and in fact have many rivals in their world that are more than their match.
Point two: they went OOC, showed up at a new ruler's throne room, uninvited, unannounced, and dropped DEATH THREATS on someone--- a formerly FRIENDLY someone--- who has a literal army of giant, fire-breathing, magic resistant Godzillas at their beck and call.
That's not just an act of war, that's an Act of Stupid. And probably qualifies as premeditated suicide. Even if they could back up that BS, Equestria would be a scorched wasteland within a matter of hours if Dragon Lady Ember got pissed at being so egregiously insulted. Assuming the Princesses weren't simply turned into giant claw-shaped indentations in the floor first....
And again-- OOC . "Spike has introduced the new Dragon Lord to the Magic of Friendship. It's the diplomatic coup of the millennium. Let's go utterly F@#% that up by making arrogant death-threats to her face!" For princesses who are supposedly concerned about the safety of their little ponies, they sure went out of the way to do something that would get tens of thousands of them killed...
7150191 Fair enough.
7150369 You are completely right...
And now I point to the comedy tag and say "This is humor! This is about characters acting slightly OOC for the sake of fun".
I get it: You want things to be plausible and comprehensible and following closest-to-reality rules.
I write funny stuff for the sake of people having a laugh.
Do you understand? Them threatening the dragons IS THE JOKE! HAHA CELESTIA WOULD NEVER REALLY DO THAT! LOOK 4 DRAGONS JUMP ON EMBER TO PROTECT HER AND DEAL MORE DAMAGE THAN THE PRINCESSES! IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE FUNNY!
Or did you file a complain to the Zucker Brothers because "The Naked Gun" was not an adequate representation of police procedure?
7150562
My dear fellow, don't both arguing with RealityCheck, it goes nowhere very fast indeed. He is the proverbial immovable object. I tried it once, but you might as well try concussing yourself by bashing your head on a wall, it's about as productive and twice as logical with no irritating ideas pulled from from the proverbial sphincter.
Oh yes, menace and bully and yell at the child.
Sure are looking like great Princesses there.
I kind of wish Ember had threatened to unleash clouds on the Princesses, since that is one of their weaknesses.
7151437 Would you say the same thing is Garble was sitting in that throne?
7151949 Golden Age Celestia's weakness was wood
Dragons only respect power. Be it physical strength for most (possibly also political and objective power for Ember) or threats that are actually threatening to them. Instilling in Ember at a young age, before her greed-instincts take over, that Equestria ain't nothin' to fuck with, should head off the desire to poke and prod at their lands for her own desires as she gets older. Say in five hundred years or so.
The fact that she is a child is irrelevant. By claiming the scepter as her own, she is now a world leader. She has the power to raze countries to the ground if she so desires. Considering how tough and numerous dragons are, I'd imagine her power is second only to Equestria's, and only then due to alicorns and macguffins. Just because she is young doesn't mean she should be treated any differently than all the dragon lords who came before.
Softer, more appropriate diplomacy, can happen now at EMBER'S behest. She can approach the Equestrian crown with the intent of peace and political discussion, to show she's not the sort of Dragon Lord who's going to challenge them to a fight. It would also show that she maintains intelligence and humility rather than the others who had to be beaten into submission to prevent them from making war on Equestria. If she can do this, she will impress her incredibly powerful allies and become even MORE powerful than she is now. A proper alliance between the two would keep both in unshakable positions sitting atop the world. The threat of counterattack by Equestria and the Dragons would prevent other nations from trying to go to war.
So really, rather than showing up to Ember and supplicating, which dragons seem to instinctively see as weakness (even Ember for the most part), they handled this appropriately. "Look at how confident we are, hear of our great strength. We are wealthy, wise, and strong - everything that you respect. Never stand against us!" People keep forgetting to take politics and the species difference into account, treating the characters as if they were regular humans.
7152274 Clearly Golden Age Luna's was the color Yellow.
7152677 Discord yes, Macguffins and alicorns no. We've yet to see Luna actually enter the dreams of a non-pony, and that sure would have been helpful in finding/stopping Tirek. And as fun as this story is, clearly Celestia doesn't really have awesome sun-smiting powers, or she would have been able to clear the clouds above the Crystal Empire (or not gotten beating about ten other times in various fights we've seen her in, including in places where she could have minimized collateral damage). In a one on one fight between an alicorn and say, Torch, the alicorn is getting rekked. And as for Macguffins, the Elements are gone, and it looks like "Rainbow Power" was a one-off as part of forming the Crystal Castle. If the Mane 6 could summon Rainbow Power at will, they would have done so to escape the shed Starlight Glimmer locked them in/saved the Crystal Empire with the deus ex machina of rainbow power.
The EUP military might be able to stand up to a horde of mostly teenage dragons, if you consider that they probably outnumber the dragons like 20 to 1, but Celestia and Luna on their lonesome are going to be about as effective against a dragon horde as they were against the weather (or Discord's vines, or all the other times they lost).
7152677 Oh my gosh, that is my exact thought process when writing this... someone give this man/woman/please insert freely here a medal.
7152759 And that's why Tia wears that regalia.
Also my head canon is that Tia never calls upon the sun because it would basically burn a huge dent into the planet itself and wreak havoc on the world. But it is a valid last chance to prevent disaster. Furthermore, the says that she CAN do it. She doesn't say that she, well, values life so much that she'd rather use any other option than that.
And I really don't think that dragon's dreams are that much harder to enter than pony's. Seeing how Spike was on the front line during the fight with the Tantabus.
7151949 7152274
7152944 I used to think the same thing about Celestia having a secret "solar flare" ability that she could almost never actually use, even as we saw her lose fight after fight after fight (counting alternate timelines, and the past, she's something like 2 for 14). But the thing about the S6 premiere was, it was perfectly set up for an awesome sun spell. The Crystal Ponies had all evacuated to the edge of the city, while Luna and Celestia were alone, miles up, among a freezing and thick wall of clouds they were trying to disperse. Celestia could have called upon the sun's rays to melt the clouds without harming a soul, or risking anyone (and keep in mind at the time they didn't know the heart could be fixed, so there was a real danger that if they did nothing everyone was going to freeze). Instead, Celestia just fired off the horn ray we've actually seen her use many times. Short of Celestia giving a press conference categorically denying this solar flare ability, that's the strongest possible proof we're ever going to see that she has no such ability.
You're right about non-ponies and dreams for Luna though, I had thought Spike was out of Ponyville for that episode because we never got to see his dreamland, but you're right.
7154532 If you think about it, we don't actually see her losing fights in the other time lines. Sombra's army was an army of slaves, bound by magic. When she is on the battlefield in that one, she seems concerned about not hurting anyone to get to him. Chrysalis' takeover would be a coup d'etat where she would never know who was real or not. Tirek (besides being a terrible villain) is literally made to suck up magic. Discord is equally OP and more importantly, loves company. The fight with Nightmare Moon happened in a fully staffed castle and finally, we have to be honest about another thing: Every time line where Nightmare Moon was not ruling supreme was a reality where Celestia managed to beat her after coming back and lost later. (In Sombra war world, she beat Crysalis AND Discord somehow).
Furthermore, even taken all into account the Crystal Empire was not yet evacuated and was still a very target rich environment.
That's why I had her say that she could pull the sun closer and glass a chunk of the planet or rip a piece off and do untold damage to her enemies. It's something I could see her do when every other option is exhausted and she has to accept untold damage to the planet's inhabitants as collateral damage.
The other part is that in this snippet, Celestia is posturing to establish her place in the world to a new and potentially dangerous dragon lord. That's why I had her mention Torch's posturing. And you don't establish your respectability by underselling your weapons.
7158256 You're right we don't see Celestia lose most of her fights, and there are a lot of ways there could be extenuating circumstances for most of them (I don't know about Flim and Flam, but most of them). It's more a matter of probability. If a famous fighter lost 12 out of 14 of their fights, in theory all 12 of those losses could be due to different sets of unique coincidences that caused each loss, and the fighter could still be the strongest fighter around. But realistically, you would never bet on that fighter in their next match.
I also think you're right that Celestia is a master diplomat who knows exactly how to deal with dragons, and can probably bluff better than anyone. I know I wouldn't want to face her in a poker game. In fact, in the Journal of the Two Sisters, I recall Celestia intimidated a large attacking dragon into leaving simply with her own use of the Royal Canterlot Voice, so in many ways this story is a continuation of her winning strategy!
7150369
Agreed. But never underestimate the fandom ability to come up with excuses about Celestia not being the pony Amaterasu they believed .
7158256 Well, in the comics they DO show Celestia's ultimate attacks... and one is literally a weaponized "Anger Mane" like Twilight's, only instead of the mane the entirety of Celestia turns into a fireball and goes into ramming mode (problem is, she has to be angry beyond understanding to use it, meaning that you have to take out an entire city or her sister to trigger the burst) while the other is literally turning her entire body into a superheated plasma fragmentation grenade, shooting off energy like a set of wildly spinning auto-shotguns (and you can easily guess what would happen if she were to release THAT in an area full of innocents... something the one she used it on once - Chrysalis - was quick to capitalize on, attacking her at a wedding).
Neither attack was feasible in the other fights... Nightmare Moon? She was her sister. Discord? Nope, he was in the middle of an inhabited area. Chrysalis? Ditto. Sombra? Inside a town full of innocents. Tirek? He could EAT that attack. The Winter Storm? Sure, let's use the Plasma Rain where it can turn into a bombardment on the city below...
Sadly, that's a problem with having powers that go boom. Just ask the Human Bomb of DC Comics' Freedom Fighters why he wears constantly a hazmat suit-like costume...
Poor Ember.
7149853
Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you find a larger stick...
7150368
7150369
Very rude, I know this was a long time ago but I’m replying anyways.
There really is nothing that can be said about Celestia versus Chrysalis without delving into headcanon because it was never explained so I don’tcare about that.
The tantabus was a dream realm monster created by Luna herself, if it had gotten into the waking world, it would still have the reality warping capabilities that it would have held in a dream, that was an amazing bit of lore and don’t forget that Luna hated herself for what she did and her fear and self loathing goes the power of the tantabus.
Tirek absorbed Discord’s magic. Of course all the alicorns could barely match it.
The crystal empire storm was a remnant of the windigoes’ power, I’m amazed they were able to hold it off at all.
I realize that people can make the royal sisters look overpowered to you, but if you consider their abilities, they really are overpowered. The tantabus is a good example of Luna’s might in the realm of dreaming, and both sisters can casually manipulate the sun and moon at will. Nobody is overestimating them,
I can understand why you think that they were being dumb dropping into the dragonlord’s place but remember two things.
1. This is a fan fiction.
2. It’s tradition for them, they’re not going to stop just because they get a half-assed reassurance of peace.
Also don’t forget that as a filly, twilight turned a newborn dragon into one of those giant, fire breathing, magic resistant godzillas and it got reversed by celestia with no effort.
Also magic resistant? Really? Now that is headcanon. It really annoys me when people try to make ponies look weaker by making something resistant or even immune to magic for the sake of the plot. No, dragons are not resistant to magic. That’s made up. In fact, I've read close to a hundred unique dragon stories and absolutely none of them had dragons even resistant to magic, because magic is the only thing that can bridge the gap between a pathetic mortal and an immortal quasigod known as a dragon.