Well, here we go again. This is the official discussion thread for the episode "Brotherhooves Social", and any new threads about it for a while will be locked and directed towards here, though I suppose I'll leave the preview one.

I didn't actually watch the preview, so all I really know about it is the name, and it seems like it'd be what's happening back home during "Made In Manehattan".

Of course, there are only a couple brothers we really know about in the show.

I'm gonna guess that this'll focus on Apple Bloom being all upset that Applejack isn't there for the Sisterhooves Social, despite that she's gotten to have Applejack with her for it every year, where I've only had it once, and Rarity isn't there either. We'll see what happens. I can guess where it's going...

--Sweetie Belle

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despite that she's gotten to have Applejack with her for it every year, where I've only had it once, and Rarity isn't there either

Yeah, Scootaloo as well, she gets her sister to go with her every year too.

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I've only had it once, and Rarity isn't there either.

It's okay, Sweetie Belle, your sister has to solve a friendship problem. It's really hard to be the sister of an Element of Harmony, but you should be proud! Your sister is a heroine

Thorgrim Gudgebearer + Clark Kent = PrincessMac

"The bugs must pay."

Prediction: Apple Bloom's bow gets torn by gardening tools, so Sweetie Belle throws it in the trash and buys her a new one. Headcanons destroyed.

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Yes, because nothing has yet to contradict that their headgear is anything but unique.

Though I suppose they could have a 'true' hat and bow and all the others are just backups they wear on their adventures as to not get them destroyed.

4753134 It was her mother's bow!

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But which one?

All of them? Did she inherit her mother's extensive bow collection?

4753136 The one she's wearing!

The only one that she has!

The only one that fans see and form an attachment to, and completely forget about the closet scene!

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All of them? Did she inherit her mother's extensive bow collection?

You could say that...

Rainbow Dash just had the best line ever.

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What line is that?
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I'm enjoying it so far. So far it has a bit more of that "MLP" feeling that I know and love. Not saying the other season 5 episodes didn't have it, this one just feels like a good return to some of the elements I loved so much. Of course, it's not finished, so I'll share that judgment later.

4753274 "Don't think we're going to go easy on you, just because you're a stallion."

That was an awesome episode. I loved it. I got so many things I wanted out of it! Scootaloo and Rainbow Dash competing as sisters, the fact that he could have competed as her brother all along, and if he's going to talk, that was the best. I am filled with warm fuzzies.

An episode actually focused on Big Mac... and I think it delivered. I don't think Scoots and Dash are complaining about the way they won the race, either.

And with the episode finished, I have my judgements! I can easily say, this was my absolute favorite episode of season 5 to DATE! Even better then Amending Fences, Slice of Life, Cutie Map, and Make New Friends But Keep Discord!

Of course that's all subjective, but I felt this was the first time all season we got a moral that really stuck out with me, not that previous morals were bad, I just feel the best moral of a season (For me at least) is the one that resonates with me personally. I imagine some will compare this episode to Sisterhooves Social, and say it's a rip off, but I disagree. I think this episode ultimately captures a different moral, and different theme.

I'll give this episode 9.8/10, I really wish we could have seen a flashback or something to the Apple Family's younger days, but as it stands, I think this episode is one of the best in my opinion.

You know, until the Big Mac opening his heart bit, I was laughing my butt off. Then when we got to that moment, I was crying and my heart was warmed. I think there is an important leson her about heroism and brotherhood. Its tough when your little sibling is a superhero, imagine if your little brother was superman and your littlest brother looked up to him. You are trying to compare yourself to Superman, oh sure, you are a poliece officer, but your little brother is superman! How can you live up to that? I like that type of story, because it kind of looks at how someone who is used to being the hero in someone's eyes is now just the 'guy' and the little sib who you usd to protect is busy doing so much more than you. How do you compare to all of that?

I love how Applejack sees her job as a duty an takes it seriously, and Applebloom loving the idea that her sister is a binefiede hero. But beyond rthat, I like that they always knew that Big Mac was a a crosdresser and their main point of anger was that Big Mac was being unsportsman like. This shows that no, you can do girl stuff too but don't be a brute about it, and that sisterhood isn't too far from brotherhood. I also love the Scootalove between the Rainbow Dash and Scoots, so cute. Also...Amyst Star and Dinky!

I think the cast had some fun in the recording room.

I wonder if some of the implications of this episode mean that Equestria operates as a Maretocracy.

4753028 I really enjoyed watching this episode. I mean, if you could call what I did "watching."

Admittedly, I mostly cringed, and skipped through the first half because of it. But the end scene made up for the cringe-inducing moments, and it really made Big Mac seem more realistic.

Too bad the cringe level was sky high...

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Do you think it's too late to switch over to having Big Mac as a big sister? Apple Bloom has an extra...

Also, this was kinda like Filli Vanilli and Bridle Gossup in that it links right back to Sisterhooves Social. I wonder if they thought this one up at the same time, and just didn't get to writing it till now, or weren't quite ready to have Big Mac in a dress until now.

--Sweetie Belle

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I find that sad, you and Rarity are best sisters after all.

Perhaps, like I said above, I felt like this episode was a COMPLIMENT to Sisterhooves Social, rather then a rehash like I worry some will say.

4753028 Big Mac really acted like himself for once, always being raked in and not coming out once to perform his own part. Season 5 really is focusing a lot on side characters this time.

4753028 The part where Big Macintosh opened his heart and talked about how he was feeling, that was what pushed this episode into excellent territory.

4753556 I know, and I really love this trend. It's nice to see some devoation to characters that haven't been given much attention before. But if they're going to keep doing this, they need to give some love to Princess Celestia, Scootaloo, and Cheerilee.

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I say you double down on your magic studies and try to become Twilight's sister.

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They showed how he was feeling pretty well at the beginning of the episode, too. The end was just where he finally expressed it.

He's also pretty silly.

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Or I could try an' become Fluttershy's sister. I bet we could have some pretty fun private singing sessions, just the two of us and a bunny band.

Though I bet Discord would make a fun big brother...

--Sweetie Belle

4753681 Well actually, I think he'd more like a wacky uncle, then a brother. Considering how close he and Fluttershy are now.

I bet Bic Mac has a taste for theatre, improv at least. He's already part of that quartet, so maybe he does other stuff. I can already imagine a short story about him doing Hamlet with him as the entire cast.

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I can easily say, this was my absolute favorite episode of season 5 to DATE!

While not my favorite season 5 episode, it's still a strong entry to the entire series. Hell, Season 5 has been a boon of great episodes, definitely making up for the last two seasons, which while I thought were decent, are the weakest of the series.

4753028 What did I think of this episode.
Well, the upsides are that there were funny moments, a good message about siblings and interactions with Apple Bloom and Big Mac that we haven't seen for a while, and the fact that Big Mac has the most lines he had throughout all the show so far. The downsides were...well...I'm not too big a fan of cringe comedy. I mean, I can stand it if it's subtle, but Big Mac in a dress? Kinda out there. That doesn't make it a bad episode, it just wasn't my form of comedy, and I know everyone has their favorite forms.

All in all, I give the episode between a "Meh" and "Good"
(That's how I grade the episodes. The Adjective System, 5 stages. Great, Good, Meh, Bad, Terrible.)

4753028 I... I can't decide if I like or dislike this episode.
It got things I hate like cringy-humour, which I personally dislike, due to me not being able to watch such things.
But then it saves it all with an awesome ending and a fucking awesome show of the relationship between applebloom and Big Mac, which I fucking adored!
I guess I am divided. I loved the start, disliked the middle and loved the ending.

I like how some of the other sister pairings were the same as last year, like Berry and Pina, and Amethyst and Dinky.

4753467 dat pun.

4753028 And I'm really happy that Scootaloo got to participate.

I really like her, in case it's not obvious.

Well, I'm torn. On one hand, there's a lot I appreciate in this episode. Being an elder sibling myself, there really is something to be said about wanting to be a part of a younger sisters life and be important to them, but not really being able to. I think that underneath everything, that sentiment was there, and I liked it.

But on the other hand... Applebloom was a real bitch. There Big Mac is, doing his bloody best, and it's nothing but whining and defeatism from his sister. And as soon as the race is over, Applebloom snaps at him for being a stallion. Surely there must have been a way to get the message across without me wanting to smack her on the back of her head. And surely there must have been a way for Big Mac to do his best at being there for his sister without tripping and slipping and looking like a nincompoop.

I guess what I wanted from this episode was some kind of ideal and toned down portrayal of a big brother doing his best to make his little sister happy. I feel I got that, but only after I dig a lot more into the episode past an Applebloom I didn't really like and some jokes I didn't really get. Ah well. The ep pulled through at the end, at least. I thoroughly enjoyed the ending scene, even if it was a bit of a bumpy ride for me to get there.

I guess when it comes to best big brothers, there's only one Tori Avalon/Toya Kinomoto.

EDIT: on further thought, there's more I think went wrong.

I think that somewhere along the line, the humour got mixed up.

Every time Big Mac does something cringy, it makes Applebloom uncomfortable. This makes the main conflict of the whole middle bit about Applebloom trying to stand her brother. What it should have been, I think, is Big Mac having to do cringy things and that making him uncomfortable, which demonstrates how far he'd want to go for his sister.

It's still comedy: we get to laugh at Big Mac having an uncomfortable time. But the end result would have been much less mean-spirited. Instead of laughing at Big Mac looking stupid and sympathizing with AB for having a brother that looks stupid, I'm laughing at Big Mac looking stupid and sympathizing with Big Mac for having to go through that.

In short, I kind of think this is my least favourite of S5. And I'm a bloodhound when it comes to finding things to enjoy in the show. I'm great at enjoying even the mediocre episodes. But this episode kind of felt mean spirited, and I don't like that much.

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Big Macintosh has reclaimed his position as my favorite stallion in the show. The last two minutes are among some of the sweetest he's been (or anypony else, really), and I really liked how he finally got a focus episode. It helped he kind of plays a bit of a woobie in this episode; Apple Bloom's treatment was really unfair.

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Every time Big Mac does something cringy, it makes Applebloom uncomfortable. This makes the main conflict of the whole middle bit about Applebloom trying to stand her brother. What it should have been, I think, is Big Mac having to do cringy things and that making him uncomfortable, which demonstrates how far he'd want to go for his sister.

Bic Mac walking around in a dress, willingly and comfortably, hints that he's into theater, and I like that characterization. Does it fix Applebloom being a bitch? Nope, but it adds something to a character who is written off as a 1-D support character usually.

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But on the other hand... Applebloom was a real bitch. There Big Mac is, doing his bloody best, and it's nothing but whining and defeatism from his sister. And as soon as the race is over, Applebloom snaps at him for being a stallion. Surely there must have been a way to get the message across without me wanting to smack her on the back of her head. And surely there must have been a way for Big Mac to do his best at being there for his sister without tripping and slipping and looking like a nincompoop.

I found Applebloom to be annoying too, but I think the episode would have been much worse off without Applebloom's bitchiness. The main conflict in this episode is that Big Mac feels that Applebloom no longer looks up to him. Big Mac needed to fail, and Applebloom needed to (appear to) lose respect for him in order for the ending to have been as compelling as it was.

Maybe there's a way they could have done this while keeping Applebloom likable? I don't know.

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willingly and comfortably

Willingly, sure. But I'm not giving up comfortably. I will defend it with my life.

It's not that I'm unhappy he's in a dress, or that he's into theater and stuff. But there are so many better ways to make him more than just a support character than turning him into a clown. If the show wanted him to fall down and trip and look silly, I think it should have made him feel uncomfortable. If it wanted him to not fall down like a great big circus event, then yes, he could have enjoyed it a lot more, because I wouldn't have needed to laugh at it. Comedy almost always comes at the price of someone being uncomfortable, and here, I think a mistake was made when deciding who.

I'm thrilled he's getting more development. But until I got to the ending (which as far as I'm concerned, is everything you'll ever need to know about Big Mac), little nit-picky things like alluding to a theatrical side were really all I had to enjoy.

On that note, though: I have noticed that out of the four times BM has spoken more than two words, twice was him performing. Coinkidink? Methinks nawt.

4754238 Well, no. The way I saw it, it took away from the ending, because after every little grating comment AB made, I felt that she was the one who should have gone and confessed that she was being rude and selfish. It's immensely hard for me to root for Big Mac getting AB to open up to him when for the life of me I have no idea why he'd want that.

Frankly, I'm a bit disappointed she didn't apologize properly. 'Y'know I'm not really mad' doesn't really cut it when the whole time, I felt Big Mac had cause to be mad at her. And there's still the easy solution: Big Mac can't be Applejack, no matter how hard he tries.

Instead of, essentially, breaking the race, he had only failed, legitimately, he would have had cause to be upset he wasn't as good of a brother that he was. Without Applebloom acting like a real Diamond Tiara. Applebloom would simply be upset that she didn't win, and that would make Big Mac upset, no matter what the truth might actually be. The show didn't need to actually have Applebloom act like a jerk to him to make BM feel like Applebloom didn't think he was important. He just had to feel inadequate. There's more than one way to make that happen. Better ways.

And ultimately, I think that even if they couldn't get that last scene to work as well without AB being a bitch (and I am thoroughly convinced they could), I am not convinced that half the episode needed to be made unpleasant just for the last minute, no matter how good it was.

4754049 Apple Bloom is a little kid. Yes, she's grown up a little bit, but she is still a kid. And yes, the episode deliberately made her difficult and difficult to please: contract Sweetie Belle, who has probably only competed once with her sister and never won, and yet she's happy to go and cheer on Scootaloo.

Yes, she was a pain. But "bitch" is a strong word, and I'm doubly disinclined to apply it to any kid character (with the possible exception of Diamond Tiara).

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To me Apple Bloom came off as a typical kid whose family member was doing something embarrassing. It didn't seem particularly bitchy.

4753590 Really about the princesses' life in duty, and how hectic it can be. Maybe Scoots needs a few about her family members.

View on Derpibooru - Original source

4753467 Given 9/10ths of the cast is female, that makes a lot of sense.

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Twilight's fall to the Dark Side begins...

It all began with a innocent competition... That she took a little too far.

4753028 I feel that this is one of the best episodes of season five, and perhaps all of the seasons because it comes from a very genuine place. It isn't trying to impress fans like Slice Of Life. It isn't trying to hard to be a drama like Amending Fences. It just tries to tell a story about a bond between a brother and sister and it does it very well.

I think a lot of people are uncomfortable because Big Mac dressed up like a girl. Well here's the thing; The Loony Tunes used to dress up like girls all of the time for comedy. Big Mac's antics actually reminded me of the antics of Loony Tunes back in the day. I feel like I keep hearing all of these reviews on YouTube about how Big Mac dressing as a girl made them feel 'uncomfortable'. Yet Steven Universe dresses up like a girl quite frequently and no one bats an eye. It seems like a kind of double standard to me. But maybe that is just me.

Getting back to the subject of the episode, I think it was good to see more of how Big Mac feels about Applejack being the hero while he is stuck on the farm. He has every right to feel the way he does and it is good that he was able to get this character development. I also think it was a great exploration of his relationship with the other members of his family. You can see that he has always been kind of a father figure for Apple Bloom, while Applejack has always been the mother type figure. And a very real thing is when a kid chooses to be a 'daddy's girl' or 'mother's girl'. One parent can kind of feel left out or neglected because the child has a favorite.

Anyway, my opinion is that this is one of the most real episodes of the entire series. It came from a genuine place and touched a lot of people/ fans who related to the message. And I kind of don't understand the hate for this episode. But to each their own.

4754501 I guess I just use strong words, then. But my point is that it's really hard to root for Big Mac trying to help his sister when his sister is whining, saying they should go home because he's a stallion, being selfish, and turning on Big Mac when the show is up.

For the most part, any of those on their own wouldn't even make it on my radar of irritation (except the last one, which is mean spirited even from Applebloom). All of them at once? I don't really care that she's a kid, and that kids do that sort of thing, because no matter what she is, aren't I supposed to like her? Or at least sympathize with her? So that I can sympathize with Big Mac sympathizing with her? The whole while, I was sympathizing with Big Mac putting up with her. And I'm not sure the show meant for that.

To Lauren Faust, Thanks for Everything-- XOXO Julie Newmare

(Based on the Hosstralian film Orchard Blossom, Queen of the Rodeo )

4753028 Who knew that Big Mac had such a big and elaborate vocabulary

4754656 It is such a quiet thing to fall, but far more terrible is to admit it