Most of Luna's personality comes from the fact that Luna is both 1) The Princess of the Night and 2) 1000 years displaced in time. I'm currently writing an AU fic in which she is neither and someone made the valid point that my Luna is drifting into Twilight 2.0 territory.

So I ask you, other than the fact that she's a moon princess and that she's 1000 years old not up on modern times, What are Princess Luna's defining character traits?

She has a fear that ponies don't like her, insecure
that's really all I got right now, and I know the story, love it so far even if Luna is being Twilightish

991655 cant really think about any right now, but those are 2 main points.

Either way, good for you for not settling for stupid, boring, and overdone stock personalities.

<insert brainless best princess claim here>

Also, she is celestias sister at her core, and many people forget that to a degree.

Lonely, eager to please, easily frustrated. (I can give examples, need be)

Not counting the first episode, she's only really been in two, but that's been largely consistent; plus it fits in the origin story.

In canon, I'd say those, her being a particularly poweerful pony, and her loyalty to her sister and their subjects.

In fanon it could be expanded to some social awkwardness, fondndess for video games and socks, and just maybe a fear of baseballs.

991655 She's a hot piece of flank? I honestly can't form an honest opinion on her quite yet and I'll just wait for new episodes to shed more light on her.

991655
She's a little jealous of her sister, I think, and definitely feels a need to be loved. The firstborn is generally valued more by royalty, and maybe she grew up feeling like her parents didn't love her as much as they did her sister; when the common ponies seemed to share those feelings, she snapped. She does love her sister, though, and genuinely cares for her subjects, even if she doesn't always know how to show it. (Her repeated visits to Scootaloo's dreams show her level of devotion to the ponies of Equestria; even a young filly is worth her time.)

She's also a powerful mage, and seems to have a certain talent for illusion spells. Raw power helps with something like that, but I think it's also a sign of her intelligence. Anyway, that's my take...

I have her pegged as a socially awkward hothead that also cares very much for her older sister, and is more of a follower than a leader.

She enjoys doing silly things that propel authors to the Feature Box.

991655 I've always imagined her as sort of an opposite to Celestia. Where Celestia is always calm, forward thinking, and regal, Luna is more emotional, more of an "artiste", and a bit more open. She can always be more "cruel" then Celestia is, more of the barbarian behind Celestia's throne. It actually was a basis for a fun story I did explaining where she was during the Changeling invasion and why we probably won't be seeing Chrysalis again.

That said, she's also got a fun sense of humor.

The biggest problem with writing the Royal Sisters is that one is more characterized than the other (due largely to screentime)

Celestia is, in addition to being the Sun Princess and ruler of Equestria, down to earth, motherly and with a playful sense of humor. She takes personal interest in problems she could just foist off on someone else and isn't afraid to step up to the plate to go toe to toe with baddies.

Luna is...the Night Princess. And she's really old. And talks talked funny...yeah

Well you gotta look at luna for what she represents, being the princess of the night she fills the roles of a guardian kind of character (protector of dreams and all that jazz) and combine that with all that the night symbollically represents. Such as beauty, romance, fear of the unknown (darkness), and death in some ways (the end of the day falling of the sun). You could also argue that she represents hope if your going by the moon as well as the moon can be seen as the shining light among the darkness.
So even in your alternate universe luna would still be the kind of socially not quite awkward but timid self as she does represent fear for both others and herself as she is uncertain what they will do or say while at the same time being confident with herself as a princess and confident with her own body (romance and lust). She does not represent love as a whole like Cadence but she does represent a branch as that is actually something that the night is symbolically a part of (when you take a girl out to date it is usually for dinner when it is dark and most sex happens under the night sky as well).
She would not be neurotic like twilight and should actually have very different personality styles (not opposite but completely different). She also very much enjoys having fun in her own way as seen in the show and has a vast array of different kinds of magics she can do especially with shapeshifting and phaseshifting if you allow her NMM abilities as well.

Headcanon dictates that she is younger than Celestia, and somewhat playful. She is the prankster of the two sisters, she is the one more likely to go out and party (Gamer Luna) so on, so forth. Not to say that she is irresponsible either, but she has a more... carefree side. IMO.

991655
From what we've seen:

- insecure (Nightmare Night); this is subject to debate since ponies back then were still fearful of her
- prone to frustration (also Nightmare Night); she's toned it down, now that she's being accepted, but it's still lurking in her.
- she's also one that enjoys helping ponies (Scootaloo in that one episode)
- and from the pilot plot, she and Celestia have a very strong bond

I just realized how little we've seen Luna

991715 there is the dreamwalker aspect.

I'd say thats pretty personal. Scoots is just some kid when you think about it. Luna is 1/2 of a diarchy and a demigod(or at least very powerful). She could be doing.. well, just about anything else in her time at night, but she came into Scootaloo's dreams to help her. Out of curiosity, has anyone here ever tried to comfort a truly terrified child? Its not easy.

In the episode Luna Eclipsed we see Luna desperately trying to get the group of children led by Pinkie Pie to stop being afraid of her, then in Sleepless in Ponyville she shows up to help Scootaloo. In Luna Eclipsed she was still thought of as Nightmare Moon, the embodiment of everyone's fears. But, in Sleepless In Ponyville she shows up in a nightmare as a symbol of comfort, safety, and reason. This is the epitome of the "showing rather than telling" for character growth and I love it. I also think that Luna might genuinely care for children, perhaps its because she is the younger sibling of Celestia. I dunno.

I would imagine, that Luna may be opposite to that in many ways:
presumably more childish and imaginative, probably paranoid(though that could just be the banishment), and would probably remain more distanced emotionally speaking from her problems. At the same time, I would imagine her to be perhaps the lesser chessmaster when compared to Celestia, she would probably prefer to take a more direct hooves on approach rather than busy herself with endless plans and pawns as Celestia seems to be more fond of.
That is just my opinion though, based on 991715's comment and the duality idea that seems to be presented with the two princess's.

The dichotomy between those two characters seems very Luna/Celestia to me, with one being a bit more socially awkward and pessimistic and the other being optimistic to the point of seeming naivety.

991655 Traits Luna has clearly established:

1. Insecurity
2. Lack of patience.
3. Aspects (but not overbearingly so) of a "better-than-thou" attitude
4. Seriousness
5. Antiquated thinking and speech.

Hope this helps.

991655
I think the best way to sum up Luna without saying the two things listed is that she doesn't want others to be afraid of her as she is trying to fit in, also I don't know if this would fall into category 2 because it is my theory as to why that happened, it's that she doesn't like living in her sister's shadow, so she is trying to make herself more friendly and open to others. the reason I say it may be category 2 is that I feel that's the main reason she stepped out of line in the first time, but prior to stepping out of line you could use that character trait.

991707

It actually was a basis for a fun story I did explaining where she was during the Changeling invasion and why we probably won't be seeing Chrysalis again.

Dude. I'm a couple weeks away from posting a story doing just that. Better not be stealin' mah ideas!

991655
I read somewhere that same-sex siblings only a few years apart have opposing personalities. Whether it's true or not, I dunno, but it makes characterization easier. I see Princess Luna as more emotive and mercurial, contrasted with Celestia's collected rationality. Luna is expressive, and doesn't mince words. Celestia's had to maintain an air of aloof detachment, and everything she says and does is calculated to some extent. It has to be. She's the Princess of Equestria, ruling for a thousand unbroken years, and she has to maintain that unbroken image of perfection... or at least, as close as one can get. I'd imagine it's quite a lonely position.

Also, Luna is definitely more willing to demonstrate her power. The weather is empathic to her, for crying out loud. Also also, headcanon: Celestia controls one star. Luna controls the rest.

991655

Slightly ironic twist:

Is your Luna "Twilight 2.0," or is Twilight "Luna 2.0?"

So would it be fair to characterize Luna as a lateral thinker in contrast to Celestia's linear, rational way of thinking?

991655 She is a Scizophrenic with a slight Inferiority Complex.

991673
Add strict and obsessive for rules and protocol to that and that's pretty much Luna's full personality.

991939

Schizophrenic? That's delving into some dark fanon there. Even when she was Nightmare Moon, at no point did her mental functions 'break down'.

991986 Wasn't the entire Nightmare Moon incident a complete mental breakdown?

992003

That's really not what we're talking about when we discuss the break down of mental functions.

We're talking rambling to yourself incoherently, which would be the language function breaking down. Inappropriate emotional reactions, things like that. When people opposed Nightmare Moon, she got upset, when she felt threatened, she was afraid. She didn't break down into hysterical laughter when she knew she was going to get hit by the elements again.

992055 Well, she did turn paranoid. Isn't that one of the many different traits of schizophrenia? She does speak incoherently too, haven't thou heardt how she speaketh? (sorry, Ye Olde Englishe isn't my strongest language)
Let's not forget that she also began hallucinating that ponies hated her night. (Which is ridicilous)
She does however have a relatively mild case of schizophrenia, which is why she (hopefully) isn't scribbling nonsense on her bedroom walls.

992099

She doesn't use any of her anachronisms as nightmare moon, she simply uses the royal we, and that is evidence of acknowledging societal norms. Even if it's just because she is displaced. By your logic she was actually healthier as Nightmare Moon.

There is nothing incoherent about how she speaks in Luna Eclipsed, either. Incoherent would be were I thus except and we are so stop one tin too and.

Let's not forget that she also began hallucinating that ponies hated her night. (Which is ridicilous)

Hallucinations were never implied. The show specifically says the ponies slept through the night, and reveled in the day. This made her feel like they appreciated the day and not her night, as they chose that time to be unconscious.

She put a lot of work into something that they refused to experience. That sort of leap of logic is not the same thing as hallucinating that everypony is walking around talking about how much your night sucks.

The same concept applies if someone is writing a story and no one comments on it, or views it. If they were to stop writing it because of that, they would have stopped writing it because they felt like no one was actually appreciating the effort.

The difference is that Luna took her book, dropped it on everypony's desk, and ordered them to experience it.

She does however have a relatively mild case of schizophrenia, which is why she (hopefully) isn't scribbling nonsense on her bedroom walls.

Except she doesn't, that's not how psychological diagnosis works, and that's not how schizophrenia works.

Thou knowest nothing, Jon Snow.

All these people saying Celestia and Luna are opposites!

They would only be opposites if one was good and the other was evil.

The politically correct term is foil. Celestia and Luna are foils to one another.

992240

I like to believe that Luna is an INFJ, and Celestia is an INTJ. In the typology sense anyway.

992123 In that case, sorry. I have been proved wrong.
(I still think she speaks incoherently)

Just contrast her to Celestia, and don't be afraid of going into "Twilight 2.0" territory, because if you think about it. Twilight may have actually been looked at as "Luna 0.8" by Celestia. (not saying she intended Twilight to be a replacement, but perhaps she saw many similarities, which prompted her to place her hopes of her sister's salvation in Twilight's hooves)

Where Celestia is confident in how she interacts with other ponies, Luna is uncertain.

Where Celestia is soft spoken and comforting, Luna is stern and forceful.

Where Celestia allows and encourages her subjects to solve their own problems, Luna takes an active role in protecting her subjects (where celestia would act as a missionary, Luna would be a cavalier or crusader)

Celestia is more likely to be verbally humorous with tongue in cheek humor and dry wit, while Luna is more likely to rely on physical/visual humor and full out pranks for her humor.

Celestia is more of an INTP. A rational thinker, but not without emotions. She will use her emotions to decide what outcomes she wants, but she will think completely rationally about how to achieve those results. She doesn't show many emotions, except as an act of intentional communication; she is not likely to cry from her own pain because tears do not benefit her pain in any way, however she is more likely to cry for the pain of someone else, because sharing that person's pain can help ease it, and her tears would communicate her desire to share their pain.
Luna is more of an emotional thinker (not sure of the specific letterset for her, but theoretically one might assume an ESFJ) She thinks emotionally, so when something like ponies sleeping through the night happens, her first reaction is "they can't sleep forever, so just make the night outlast their sleep and problem solved!" to which her sister tells her "but ponies wont like that" and Luna is incensed "They wont like my night? What's not to like? they just need to give it a chance! Why are you stopping me!"

If faced with an impending threat, Luna would be more likely to meet it first, attack first, hard, and try to end the battle before it begins, Celestia is more likely to observe, look for weaknesses and decide the best strategy.

Celestia has more raw magic in terms of power, and energy intensity, but Luna has shown far more variance in the type of spells she has performed. while Celestia has more magical strength, Luna has more Magical flexibility and skill.

992255

BAH! OPINIONS!

yeah, even when she spoke in old english, she was still understandable. it's just no one ever seems to be able to WRITE her old english properly without getting tis, thees, thous, thys all mixed up.
992253
oh, no. Celestia is an INTP. If you want INTJ, look to Twilight. My Fiance and I are INTJ and INTP respectively, and we swear some of the interactions betwen the two of them are exactly teh same as ours.
992240
a better term might be that they are COMPLEMENTS to one another.

992267

Celestia is more of an INTP. A rational thinker, but not without emotions. She will use her emotions to decide what outcomes she wants, but she will think completely rationally about how to achieve those results. She doesn't show many emotions, except as an act of intentional communication; she is not likely to cry from her own pain because tears do not benefit her pain in any way, however she is more likely to cry for the pain of someone else, because sharing that person's pain can help ease it, and her tears would communicate her desire to share their pain.

Except, if you place her as an INTP she would be utterly without emotions. This is the functional stack for an INTP:

Dominant Function: Introverted Thinking
Auxiliary Function: Extraverted Intuition
Tertiary Function: Introverted Sensing
Inferior Function: Extraverted Feeling

A functional stack like this would be far more apropos of somepony like Starswirl the bearded, who's academic pursuits were ultimately stonewalled by his inability to fully understand the magic of friendship, something that would ultimately take a developed understanding of feeling, but is unfortunately (a) his inferior function, something that this personality type is often stunted in, and has a very hard time ever fully integrating with themselves and their primary function, and (b) the other feeling function, introverted feeling, is literally at the bottom of the functional stack, and would be a shadow function as well.

There is actually no character in MLP who is an INTP. It sucks, but they really just don't often make interesting characters. They're far too passive compared to their INTJ counterparts and just sorta wait for problems to fix quietly before moving on to the next one.

Now, lets look at the functional stack of an INTJ:

Dominant Function: Introverted Intuition

It is important to note that Introverted in typology does NOT mean you are introverted in the traditional sense. Introverted means that your primary dominant function is one you keep largely to yourself. This is why Twilight is DEFINITELY not an INTP, as she is very in your face with her logic and thinking.

Celestia, and to a lesser extent Twilight, are very Intuitive individuals. It frequently comes up in the show that Twilight's book learning wasn't enough, and she needs to think outside the box. The culmination of this occurred for Twilight in Magical Mystery Cure.

Celestia is the kind of pony who plans out everything well in advance, she uses her intuition to read her subjects and plan for their reactions in advance, and she used it to plan Twilight's reaction to the whole Nightmare Moon incident. This is partially why she was able to manipulate events and save her sister.

Auxiliary Function: Extraverted Thinking

For introverted types, that is to say, personality types that start with an I, the auxiliary function is the side of themselves they present to the world. It is what they use to share their dominant function with others, rather than simply tossing out their dominant function without taking time to make it presentable.

Celestia is a voice of reason and logic. When Twilight leaves, they are both most comfortable keeping their correspondence to letters talking about what Twilight learned, because of the emphasis that friendship places on feeling it can be easy to confuse her for someone that functions best by expressing feelings. This is not the case. She is merely trying to help Twilight develop her tertiary function: Introverted Feeling, by discussing it in a way that they are both more comfortable with. It's hard to really go into detail with this the way you can with Twilight, because Celestia sees very little screen time. But the overall relationship is there.

Tertiary Function: Introverted Feeling

The Tertiary function is very important for the second stage of development. Individuals just out of adolescence have spent most of their lives perfecting their dominant and auxiliary functions, and their tertiary and inferior functions have suffered for it. You'll note that the tertiary and inferior functions tend to be polar opposites to the dominant and auxiliary. There is a reason for this.

Because Celestia and Twilight fixate on out of the box thinking and intuition at the root of their thought process, they never really develop or focus on the sensing end of the spectrum. It's hard to show your work when you made it your life mission to discover new and better ways to get there. And because they focus so much on Thinking and Logic as their auxiliary function, rather than emotion and passion, the later group falls a bit by the wayside.

In second stage development, individuals start to visit on their tertiary function in an effort to better complete themselves. Celestia is serene and motherly, she does not seem out of her element at all when around other ponies, and she understands the magic of friendship and what it means to her, because she is thousands of years old and has integrated her tertiary function flawlessly. The entire series up until the conclusion of season 3 can be seen as Twilight learning from her mentor this same lesson. She's an adult now, and it's time to focus on things beyond books, beyond what until now has defined her. When Twilight finished writing that new spell she reached the same understanding regarding the magic of friendship Celestia has, she is by this point much more calm, complete, and stable as an individual. She becomes a better leader because of it.

Inferior Function: Extraverted Sensing

INTJs and INFJs are otherworldly because their perception of the world itself is an inferior function. this is why Twilight seems to overreact to absolutely everything. She lets her own ideas get the better of her and comes to some pretty nasty conclusions. By the end of Season 3 you can see Cadence helping her work through this. She's close to the end of her stage 2 development and getting ready for stage 3. Considering most individuals never 'grow up' to that point, a lot of people might comment on how OOC that random change is, but it's very fitting according to Typology. The Inferior Function is so far removed from who or what they are that to integrate it you don't master it, rather you accept it as one of your flaws. You take a deep breath and move on.

Don't really get to see a lot of this with Celestia because screen time, and also she's thousands of years old. When her inferior function comes into play you wont even notice it, because she does a very good job of staying where she is strongest.

That said, there is one example of it in effect. The Canterlot Wedding Episode. Celestia was taken completely by surprise by the deception and even scolded Twilight, simply because she was oblivious to what was going on around her. She didn't plan for it with her intuition and thus it was largely beyond the scope of her vision.

Summary: Friendship is Magic is a show about an INTJ learning how to integrate her tertiary function with the help of her also INTJ mentor who has already gone through all of it.

Now, lets move on to why Luna is an INFJ. I'm an INFJ myself, so I may be a bit biased here.

First of all, INFJs and INTJs, perhaps more than most personality types, fulfill a twin archtype. Often they can recognize each other in a very love at first sight fashion, and quickly become like siblings. They are also the rarest of personality types in general, so if you're writing two characters who are magical pony princesses, it just kinda fits. It doesn't hurt that INFJs and INTJs are decent leaders in a Plato's Republic kinda way.

Dominant Function: Introverted Intuition

We don't see much of the dominant function itself with either princess because with Introverted Personality Types the dominant function is 'invisible' save for its influence on the Auxiliary Function. Also I am really tired and it's hard for me to over analyze right now. So we'll just move on to the auxiliary function so I can explain how this is interpreted through Luna's Auxiliary Function.

Auxiliary Function: Extraverted Feeling

An INFJ is in many ways a cursed personality type. Because of their Intuition, they are driven by visions and concepts that seem utterly removed from them and outside the scope of the world in general. They struggle to express these concepts, but because of their inferior sensing function have difficulty taking up most art forms. Illustration and music are not impossible, but they are counter intuitive(Ha!) to their anti-sensing nature. Both of these things force them to focus on their senses instead of their instincts. A lot of people seem to think INFJs should stick to writing via an abstract medium such as writing. Because Luna is a magical god pony she has other options available.

Because of her Extraverted Feeling auxiliary function, she is very passionate. I mean, her emotions even influence the weather around her. It's not that she has no off switch, it's that she doesn't want one. She needs to be connected to everyone and everything around her.

One might argue that Luna's understanding of emotion and feeling would make her more conscious of the magic of friendship than her sister, but that's not really the case. INFJs are marked by incredible passion and very potent emotions, but that doesn't means they are all knowing when it comes to that sphere. In actual fact they often have issues dealing with others because they anticipate others to feel as strongly about everything as they do. They spend hours and weeks fretting over what an inflection in someone's voice 'actually' meant. Until they integrate their Introverted Thinking, they let their passions run away with them and are a bit less than logical.

An INFJ is a good leader simply because they gravity of their emotions inspire action in others, and this is important for understanding Luna's issues.

First, there is the night itself. This is something that is very clearly important to Luna, and she puts a lot of effort into it. It is her purpose in life to govern the night sky, and when everypony just sleeps through it, this can be very bad for an INFJ Luna.

This is not what she hoped for. Her night sky is inspiring nopony. They are not driven by it, they are not moved emotionally in any way that she can connect with. They are not inspired to create, and she begins to feel like she has failed as a leader.

But because she is Judging, she does not passively grumble and continue rolling with the punches. This is a problem, and it needs to be fixed immediately. She clearly has an understanding of some concept that her ponies are lacking in, she just doesn't know how to make them understand.

The whole Nightmare Moon episode is a very long paper where Luna slips into despair and begins acting on her Shadow Functions as opposed to her normal healthy ones. I'm a bit too tired for that now, but I might talk about it tomorrow. Suffice it to say the function she uses to connect with the world wasn't working out as planned, so she withdrew into herself until she became a perversion of herself and aptitudes. She transformed into the much more Extroverted Nightmare Moon figure, forsaking the subtlety of a typology introvert and hurling her understanding directly at her subjects instead of disguising it through Extraverted Feeling.

It's also worth noting that Luna's apparent aptitude for Dreamwalking is like the purest example of an Extraverted Feeling exercise there is, and Sleepless in Ponyville is her taking on the therapist role as healthy INFJs often do. I seriously wish I could do that, it seems like it would be pretty validating and affirming.

Tertiary Function: Introverted Thinking

I am exhausted, have some wikipedia:

Ti seeks precision, such as the exact word to express an idea. Ti notices the minute distinctions that define the essence of things, then analyzes and classifies them. Ti examines all sides of an issue, looking to solve problems while minimizing effort and risk. It uses models to root out logical inconsistency.[19]

Luna is pretty old, but I guess for whatever reason the show decided she never integrated her Tertiary Function. Which wouldn't be unusual except she's over a thousand years old. This is why Luna is so uncertain, much like Twilight can be before the end of season 3. She's not a full grown and healthy personality yet, and has issues understanding her worth to her subjects and to herself. She still struggles with Harmony and Friendship because it places her in a vulnerable position she isn't yet comfortable with, but she is getting there.

Luna has issues seeing all sides of an issue and thus can appear quite a bit more brash than Celestia. Like the whole Crystal Empire scenario. Luna's first instinct was that the Empire needed to be protected, and her passions compelled her to act. Because her Introverted Thinking is underdeveloped, Celestia had to step in and help. In this way INFJs and INTJs fill in the gaps.

Inferior Function: Extraverted Sensing

Like her sister, Luna is a bit more fixated on her intuition and feelings than the world around her. It's hard for her to sense what eternal night is going to do to the world because she is far too fixated on the abstract. She sees the beauty and magic of the night, but not the changes in temperature, the effects on sleep schedules, or a myriad of other practical details.

Summary: In summary its important to remember that INFJs and INTJs are driven by abstract understanding and need to take an active role in changing the world to fit their understanding. Celestia is a very healthy expression of this because she is fully developed, she still has flaws like anypony else but they hinder her a lot less. Luna and Twilight both are less developed and illustrate many of the flaws these kinds of leaders can possess.

Luna is an INFJ because she is passionate and emotional, she wants her subjects to be inspired the way she is inspired. She has high standards for everything, but instead of being a hypocrite she is just as brutally judgmental to herself.

Celestia and Twilight are both INTJs because they think outside of the box, fit the philosopher king archetype, and because unlike most analytical thinking types still manage to integrate their Feeling function just fine. At their best they are balanced and understand all sides of an issue before it even comes up, at their worst they are farsighted and lose sight of reality.

992461
Wow... seriously? INTPs are emotionless? I don't know why you bothered writing the rest of that skyscraper of text, because your first sentence pretty much undermined all of it. Nobody is defined ABSOLUTELY by an archtype, it merely shows their strengths. I have confirmed myself as INTP on pretty much every possible test and scenario simulation, and I am certainly not emotionless, at least no less than Celestia.
I will admit that I only have a single person I really consider a friend (my fiance) but that is only a matter of how people define friendship, and my definition is much harsher, and other people will toss out that term when I would only toss out a "buddy" or "acquaintance" but if you look at Celestia, she too only has a very SMALL select group of people that she really RELIES on personally. I'd almost go so far as to say that it's only Twilight, and possibly Spike and Luna. Even the rest of the mane 6 and Cadance are only given roles of trust in events that specifically concern their professional skills, heck, even Luna was rebuked from helping out in the Crystal Kingdom, but I still say that was primarily due to Celestia still stressing over losing Luna again (I personally believe that the Crystal Kingdom, and its disappearance was directly tied to Luna going Nightmare Moon)

Here, lets go by a simple breakdown I found (it's off to the side)

Extraverted (E)
Expressive, outgoing, prefer group activities, eager to speak their minds, more comfortable when around other people than when alone, get energized by social interaction
Introverted (I)
Reserved, listen carefully, prefer solitary activities, more comfortable when alone than when around other people, get exhausted by social interaction

Celestia is an introvert by nature. This does not mean she is INCAPABLE of socializing, it just means that she is USES energy to socialize, and regains it through quiet alone-time. She HATES the impersonal parties to the point where she HOPED that Twilight and her friends would wreck the Gala, and then spent the time afterward in a very light and informal gathering with ponies she has close connections to.

Intuitive (N)
Introspective, rely on their imagination, absorbed in ideas, focus on what might happen

Sensing (S)
Observant, rely on their senses, absorbed in practical matters, focus on what has happened

This one is a bit harder to recognize on Celestia, but a lot of that extends from her inhumanly long life. She has a HUGE amount of cumulative experience to draw on. Her lack of observation is likely responsible for not noticing how oddly Cadance was acting, and similarly she is focused on future events and predicting outcomes, such as pushing Twilight into a position to be able to save Luna, as well as all the other little pieces that pushed Twilight to become an Alicorn.

Thinking (T)
Tough, follow their minds, suppress feelings, focus on objectivity and rationality

Feeling (F)
Sensitive, follow their hearts, keep feelings close to the surface, focus on harmony and cooperation

Celestia rarely ever shows the full range of her emotions, unless the emotion itself is being used as a form of communication. She shows when she is angry and upset with Twilight because it drives the point home that Twilight is doing something she shouldn't be. She laughs to let others know to relax and not be on edge simply because she is royalty. Despite loving her sister, she still did what was needed and sealed her in the moon. Even though there are countless dangers that face ponyville every day, she lets the ponies handle it rather than solving all their problems for them.

But now lets get down to the main point of contention:

Judging (J)
Decisive, prefer clear rules and guidelines, eager to commit, see deadlines as sacred, seek closure

Perceiving (P)
Probing, prefer keeping their options open, reluctant to commit, relaxed about their work, seek freedom

This part is where you have a clear separation between Twilight and Celestia. The basic description for Judging practically reads as Twilight's character bio. And similarly, excepting that I wouldn't call it a reluctance to commit, the Perceiving side fits Celestia to a T(Tea?) She keeps her options open, like with reforming Discord, having ALL the mane 6 send in friendship reports, planning the downfall of the gala, she has an incredibly relaxed work ethic and seeks freedom (do I need to mention her intentional sabatoge of the Gala again?)

No. I might possibly see her as an ISTP, maybe even ENTJ if you really wanted to push the Tyrant Celestia angle, but there's no way that you can argue reasonably that she's INTJ. That's all on Twilight Sparkle.
I noticed you're mentioning a philosopher king archetype, but I think you're getting too hung up on that "king" part. Celestia didn't choose or desire the role of leadership, she is CONSTANTLY delegating responsibilities to other ponies so that they can learn to solve their own problems. She's specifically kept the title of princess despite theoretically holing the authority of a queen.(though I also say she retained that as a reminder that she was always meant to be co-ruler, alongside Luna) She bucks high society standards any chance she gets and I haven't seen her once mention an actual legal rule. the closest thing to a proclamation I can recall is her declaring that all of twilight's friends had to send in friendship reports as well, but, y'know, only when they actually have something to report. So not exactly clear and decisive deadlines there.
It's been said that the only real difference between INTJs and INTPs is that INTPs are more creative and/or flexible in their thinking that INTJs, but cursed with laziness that completely negates all of those advantages. If Celestia felt she had a choice, she would likely never have become a ruler, but the role just kinda got dumped on her once she became the oldest and wisest benevolent creature around.

Wow. Everyone else wrote such huge posts. Now I kinda feel ... inadequate.

The suggestions to "look at Celestia and do the opposite" are half right. Look at Celestia and understand that she is the avatar of the sun goddess. The sun has certain qualities that she mirrors in her own personality. She is warm, nurturing, and pleasant to be around. She lights up the room with her presence and is loved by all. When angered she can blaze forth with merciless power.

Now look at Luna, the moon goddess, avatar of the night. What do you feel when you sit alone under the night sky? What attributes would you give to the night if it was personified as a person? Perhaps you find it quiet and calm, or maybe you find it cold and creepy. What we know about Luna (aside from what you listed yourself) is that she is distant, intimidating to others, but also lonely because of it. At times she can serve as a subtle threat in the background. That is the nature of the night.

Everything else you will have to use your own judgment on. I suggest maybe taking a moment to sit in a room with the lights off at night time, and really think about how the the dark makes you feel. Use that to gain inspiration, if you can.

992509

Wow... seriously? INTPs are emotionless? I don't know why you bothered writing the rest of that skyscraper of text, because your first sentence pretty much undermined all of it. Nobody is defined ABSOLUTELY by an archtype

My first sentence didn't undermine anything, it just pissed you off is all. You're right, no one is 'defined absolutely' by an archetype, especially not one that uses a spectrum instead of one or the other.

However, when you're trying to categorize characters based on that system? Uh... Yeah, you do your best to find the archetype that best fits them. Sorry, Celestia doesn't have Extraverted Feeling as an inferior function.

I have confirmed myself as INTP on pretty much every possible test and scenario simulation, and I am certainly not emotionless, at least no less than Celestia.

I don't really care what you as an individual tested as on the internet, I'm using the actual archtypes themselves and what they represent. For all I know, you're an INTP who is 80% Introverted, 72% Intuitive, 10% Thinking, and 32% Perceiving. That would mean you are so much on the border between T and F that it's really hard to place you in one or the other. This would explain how you somehow fit the 'INTP Mold' without actually matching up to what Typology claims it represents.

And if you're just slapping letters under your name with no care for the reasoning behind them, they're all rather superfluous.

even Luna was rebuked from helping out in the Crystal Kingdom, but I still say that was primarily due to Celestia still stressing over losing Luna again (I personally believe that the Crystal Kingdom, and its disappearance was directly tied to Luna going Nightmare Moon)

Or, you know, it really was to test Twilight's priorities, like she specified.

Here, lets go by a simple breakdown I found (it's off to the side)

Ahhhh... But I thought you were an INTP! You mean you don't want to know all the little details?

Celestia is an introvert by nature. This does not mean she is INCAPABLE of socializing, it just means that she is USES energy to socialize, and regains it through quiet alone-time. She HATES the impersonal parties to the point where she HOPED that Twilight and her friends would wreck the Gala, and then spent the time afterward in a very light and informal gathering with ponies she has close connections to.

You have seriously missed the point of typology, and ignored it outright when I tried to explain it.

In actual typology, Introverted does not mean shy and standoffish, and Extroverted does not automatically mean a social butterfly. Judging does not necessarily mean you're a judgmental jerk, and perceiving is just... They may as well be replaced with Active and Passive. Aside from that, if you've got a J in your personality type, your primary function will either be Sensing or Intuition.

You can toss out word definitions all you like, but unfortunately with typology, the terminology is so messed up that a lot of the typical ones don't apply. You clearly don't know about the science behind what is going on there. You see four letters, slapped meanings on to them, and ignored everything else behind the model.

That said, yes. Celestia does exert herself for social affairs like the Gala. Her tertiary function is Introverted Feeling, and even if that's integrated, it is (a) not extraverted, and (b) still her tertiary function. It's not something she's going to enjoy doing.

This part is where you have a clear separation between Twilight and Celestia. The basic description for Judging practically reads as Twilight's character bio. And similarly, excepting that I wouldn't call it a reluctance to commit, the Perceiving side fits Celestia to a T(Tea?) She keeps her options open, like with reforming Discord, having ALL the mane 6 send in friendship reports, planning the downfall of the gala, she has an incredibly relaxed work ethic and seeks freedom (do I need to mention her intentional sabatoge of the Gala again?)

That reformation of Discord thing was so contrived, but lets go with it.

"Why are we doing this again?"

"Uh... I need his magic and stuff."

Sure sounds like she's already making plans for what to do with it. Whether or not she wanted to make it known at that point. (or whether or not the writers felt like lamp-shading how OOC the situation was.)

planning the downfall of the gala,

She kept her options open by planning for one result? What?

the mane 6 send in friendship reports

I'm not sure how agreeing to have the other friends send friendship reports is keeping her options open but alright. Just kinda seems like an eagerness to commit to the plan to me.

she has an incredibly relaxed work ethic and seeks freedom (do I need to mention her intentional sabatoge of the Gala again?)

She tries to be more laid back with commoners because it helps put them at ease. Tense nervous behavior leads to accidents. She acts laid back around Twilight because Twilight is practically her daughter, and Twilight doesn't need help making her work schedule hectic.

And I suppose you could, since you seem to think her plotting the downfall of a public event over the course of a year somehow makes her laid back and passive.

Judging means you are a schemer, and that's just what Celestia is.

No. I might possibly see her as an ISTP, maybe even ENTJ if you really wanted to push the Tyrant Celestia angle, but there's no way that you can argue reasonably that she's INTJ. That's all on Twilight Sparkle.

Even using Tyrant Celestia fanon, she wouldn't be an ENTJ. Your inability to accept that Twilight and Celestia are the same type stems from a lack of understanding of the system in general, and outright stubbornness.

Placing her as an ISTP is even more ridiculous, there is nothing in the show whatsoever to suggest she is such.

I noticed you're mentioning a philosopher king archetype, but I think you're getting too hung up on that "king" part. Celestia didn't choose or desire the role of leadership, she is CONSTANTLY delegating responsibilities to other ponies so that they can learn to solve their own problems. She's specifically kept the title of princess despite theoretically holing the authority of a queen.(though I also say she retained that as a reminder that she was always meant to be co-ruler, alongside Luna) She bucks high society standards any chance she gets and I haven't seen her once mention an actual legal rule. the closest thing to a proclamation I can recall is her declaring that all of twilight's friends had to send in friendship reports as well, but, y'know, only when they actually have something to report. So not exactly clear and decisive deadlines there.

Uhm. Actually I am getting hung up on the part where a Philosopher 'King' leads by example and wisdom. A Philosopher King isn't much of a king at all, really, so much as a spiritually enlightened leader. Which is exactly what alicorns in general appear to be in universe. You achieve enlightenment, you become an alicorn, and therefor automatically a princess.

I don't know where you got the idea that Celestia doesn't 'want' to be a leader. She seems pretty adamant about protecting all of her ponies. Maybe she delegates work so that her ponies can grow, and because that's what a leader's actual job is?

She's a princess and not a queen because Hasbro doesn't like queens, otherwise she would be, and you don't see her handing out royal decrees because she's rarely in the show at all, and when she is it's never called for. You know, except for that one time where it was, and she did it. So whatever.

It's been said that the only real difference between INTJs and INTPs is that INTPs are more creative and/or flexible in their thinking that INTJs, but cursed with laziness that completely negates all of those advantages. If Celestia felt she had a choice, she would likely never have become a ruler, but the role just kinda got dumped on her once she became the oldest and wisest benevolent creature around.

Uhm... No one says that. INTJs are more creative because intuition is their primary function, where as INTPs are more bound up in the academia inherent in Introverted Thinking. This is why INTJs are typecast as Inventors/Mad Scientists, and INTPs are analysts, that guy in the background checking your numbers.

What is actually described as a flaw for INTPs is that they have a very hard time interacting with other personality types, and thus tend to socialize very little outside of academia. So, you know, again, Starswirl the Bearded. My ex-boyfriend was an INTP, and I don't think a day went by where he didn't curse somehow accidently making friends, or talk about how he wished he were a robot.

991747 You've fortgotten her bit part at the begining of Season 2, when Princess Celestia sends Twilight to help Princess Cadence. Luna was worried for Twilight and tried to convince her sister that she should accompany the Mane 6.

Things can be drawn from that as well. Showing that the sisters have 2 diffrent parenting styles. Llike the parents with a baby learning to walk.
One parent is holding the camera saying leave the baby alone and let him/her to learn the hard way.
The other parent wants to be more proactive. Offering the baby fingers to hold onto while he/she takes those first tentative steps.

The word I would use to most describe Luna is trapped. In the past, by her position, and in her own mind. She almost certainly keeps a diary. Her early, negative experiences with ponies has created a strong drive in her to seek perfection, setting up unobtainable standards on herself and others. When these inevitably fail, she becomes frustrated, like in Luna Eclipsed when the people in Ponyville were frightened of her. It didn't fit her little script, so she freaked out. While she doesn't hate ponies, she wants to be more because she associates the traits of normal ponies with those which hurt her.

Her strict adherence to protocol is a manifestation of this. She doesn't want to use the wrong word or tone. She's a princess, so she acts the part. In reality, she doesn't enjoy this. She feels as if she's wearing a mask, but she's done it so long that she's become comfortable with it. Unfortunately, it drags on her. She just wants someone to open up to, but her fears of failure cause her to recluse herself. The reactions of the ponies reinforced this negative self-image. For a moment, Luna hit rock bottom and dropped the formalities when she spoke with Twilight.

Luna is making progress though, slowly. Still, as of now, she's really only comfortable with confiding in Celestia, although she has an interest in Twilight and Pip. Her ideal image of herself is a love, if slightly aloof, princess who represents in her subject's eyes nobility, dignity, grace, intellect, and gentle power.

That is, at least, the impression I get from her short appearances.

992276
Fun fact, because I feel picky this morning:

Compliments are what make you feel good,
Complements are two things that go well together.

I'm sure you knew that already, just being picky.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

I can't say I can give Luna an accurate description given my track record of putting them in odd situations such as staring contests and capture-the-flag bubble baths, but I can say I think all she ever wanted was a little appreciation and she just goes about the wrong ways to receive it. Desire turns to desperation and thus a Nightmare Moon, but I think that's happened to all of us at some point in time, Luna just had the magic to physically manifest it.

Hey, what do you think would happen to an Alicorn who felt pure happiness? Would Luna turn into Starlight Dreams? Actually, hold that theory, I'm using it.

991655
Dear gods, I can't read through this text mountain. So I might be repeating things. Though I shall try to avoid talking about what others probably have.

With Luna:
Think Big!

She's a bit awkward. She's a lot insecure. But she's Hammy as all hell. It could just be her overcompensating, or it could be just what her personality is like.

Make sure to separate awkwardness and insecurity from shyness. Because she sure as hell isn't shy. She's downright bombastic, between the glomps, CANTERLOCK and the 'Face your Feeeeeeears!' dream invasions. We might associate the day with being big and obvious, and the night with being sly and subtle, but nobody told the Sisters that, since they've traded the stereotypes.

Honestly, I think you'd be better off thinking more than when you write Luna.

991883
It happens time and time again (especially in the fanfic community) where two people get the same idea almost at the same time. It's happened to me before, but it bugs me because they are usually games or movies and I yell out "I had that idea three years ago!"

992561
Making an assertion that being an INTP would make Celestia emotionless is the type of sweeping statement that makes me doubt your credibility and then not want to read through any of the following wall of text you wrote. So yes, while it may not have invalidated anything you wrote, it sure as heck undermined it.
I've read back over your stuff a bit more thoroughly, and part of why I didn't pay attention to your stacking stuff was because it just comes off MORE restrictive of a categorization method. Why can't you have introverted thinking, extroverted intuition, and then have extroverted feeling as the tertiary instead of as the inferior? As you mentioned, the tertiary functions are usually developed to balance out the other side, so if you're actively working to grow, why not work to grow MORE than one part of it?
I already knew about the percentages on the 4 letter model. I do actually score a fairly low T percentage, kinda average on I, and fairly high on N and P, at least last I checked, but I also USED to score at much greater extremes in nearly all categories.
and no, I don't really care about the details, as they typically just muddle the issues. I tend to work on a pure logic basis.

I do agree with your assessment on Luna though. I can easily picture her as an INFJ. Ready to take decisive actions based purely on her emotional reaction to a situation. It even fits in with my initial assessment/description of her as a Cavalier/Crusader to Celestia's missionary.
I agree with you on the INT part for Celestia, but the one trait I have always identified in myself as an INTP is that I will constantly keep reassessing a situation, trying to determine the most accurate and correct answer/solution, usually resulting in setting out 3 or 4 different predictions and then either making my plan of action to be whichever can address the most predictions, or whichever I find the most likely. Contrast that with my fiance, who will come to a single conclusion very quickly and act on that, without really considering many other perspectives unless I specifically bring up those other possibilities.
When I see Celestia, I never get the impression that she is making a final judgment on anything. (admittedly, your example of her chastising Twilight during the pre-wedding cerimony weakens that idea, but similarly, her willingness to see Discord as an ally weakens the other side of the argument) I think most of my rational is how very rarely she explains her reasoning or plans BEFORE a situation that needs dealt with. As an INTP, this comes across to me as the signs that she has so many possible scenarios in her head that she isn't quite ready to commit to, that explaining them all would be detrimental.
Perhaps it isn't even plausible to define her in anything beyond Introverted, which manifests itself in the ways in which she prefers to relax (which we have observed) When you have 1000 years to grow and develop yourself, I can't see any way that you wouldn't slowly develop even your inferior skills to the point that they are stronger than people who are dominant in that skillset. As I mentioned, my T/F has become far more balanced, and all I did was just focus on the idea that how other people felt and reacted to things was something worth paying attention to.

Also here, this site will either help explain/demonstrate why I identify as INTP, or it will annoy you. Either way, score for me.
Despite identifying so strongly with INTP, I still don't feel the limitations supposedly imposed by INTP. Am I more balanced then most INTPs? If so, then why assume that Celestia isn't also more balanced of an INTP?
Actually it's possible that Celestia truly is balanced right between INTJ and INTP, and if you're a J and I'm a P, then we're likely both just reading our own interpretations and going "Yeah, she's balanced between the two, but she started from MY side to achieve that balance."

Ending statement; sorry for skimming over all of your stuff. I still don't terribly agree with the functional stack philosophy, but it was worth the read despite your horrible opening statement to it all :P

This was really not supposed to be this long.

If we keep talking about this we should probably move all of this to a new thread, because I'm starting to realize we're talking about Celestia, and not at all about Luna.

992837

If you don't agree with the functional stack categorization system, then you don't agree with Typology. Sorry if I'm being a crusader about this, but well... INFJ or whatever.

And if you're just slapping letters under your name with no care for the reasoning behind them, they're all rather superfluous.

Contrast that with my fiance, who will come to a single conclusion very quickly and act on that, without really considering many other perspectives unless I specifically bring up those other possibilities.

Sorta like how Celestia did when she started scolding Twilight for her distrust in Canterlot Wedding?

When I see Celestia, I never get the impression that she is making a final judgment on anything. (admittedly, your example of her chastising Twilight during the pre-wedding cerimony weakens that idea, but similarly, her willingness to see Discord as an ally weakens the other side of the argument)

"I'll just leave the elements with you, Twilight... Just in case."

"I need his magic for... stuff."

It's almost like she's being forced to consider that option, and she isn't altogether fond of the idea anymore than the other elements were. (In actuality, that's kind of the case. Until proven innocent I maintain that the episode had some of the worst writing ever. But at least Celestia was for once less than her serene cryptic self, she had doubt and concerns. The overall picture this paints is one where things aren't going according to her plan, and she isn't very happy about it.)

I think most of my rational is how very rarely she explains her reasoning or plans BEFORE a situation that needs dealt with. As an INTP, this comes across to me as the signs that she has so many possible scenarios in her head that she isn't quite ready to commit to, that explaining them all would be detrimental.

Xanatos is a text book INTJ, and he never explains his schemes in advance either. Why should he? No one would have the genius to understand them anyway. Celestia may not be as arrogant as him (though she certainly must have been at one point to miss out on her little sister flipping all the desks, all of them) but her planning and results end up roughly the same, from what little we see of them.

When you have 1000 years to grow and develop yourself, I can't see any way that you wouldn't slowly develop even your inferior skills to the point that they are stronger than people who are dominant in that skillset. As I mentioned, my T/F has become far more balanced, and all I did was just focus on the idea that how other people felt and reacted to things was something worth paying attention to.

If you start strengthening your Inferior Function, which isn't something people do without something life changing happening, then your primary and auxiliary functions start to fall behind, and you no longer fit in that category. It is a seesaw effect.

Also here, this site will either help explain/demonstrate why I identify as INTP, or it will annoy you. Either way, score for me.

This site may prove relevant to thy interests.

http://personalityjunkie.com/

The best place to start is by reading ALL OF THE ARTICLES, ALL OF THEM!

And then uh... I guess moving on and reading other things by people with pieces of paper that say they spent a lot of money.

Despite identifying so strongly with INTP, I still don't feel the limitations supposedly imposed by INTP. Am I more balanced then most INTPs? If so, then why assume that Celestia isn't also more balanced of an INTP?

Actually it's possible that Celestia truly is balanced right between INTJ and INTP, and if you're a J and I'm a P, then we're likely both just reading our own interpretations and going "Yeah, she's balanced between the two, but she started from MY side to achieve that balance."

The difference between one letter is massive, and alters the functional stack utterly. That may not matter to you, because you choose not to believe it is accurate but it forms the backbone of Jungian Personality Theory.

I'm not saying Celestia is Judging because I'm Judging and I see a lot of myself in her. I'm saying that she's Judging because she is a schemer, she wants to change the world, that much is clear in everything she does. These traits are the hallmark of a judging personality.

Your telling me that "But -I- am an INTP, and she reminds me of myself!" isn't really a valid counter argument. Your reasoning, when you provide it, stretches facts to suit your conclusions, instead of the other way around.

THOU ART PROJECTING NOBLE ADVERSARY

Edit: I apologize if my hyperbole offended you, but yeah, most INTPs are either 'utterly emotionless' (They're lying to themselves and everyone else) or they're honest about it, and spend all of their time denouncing the importance of feelings and emotions. They only serve to muddy the issues and stymie their Thinking function, according to them.

Barely qualifying as an INTP is not the same thing as having somehow developed your Inferior Function while in your 20s, or however old you are. In all honesty, your focus and method of debate has you pegged much more as an INFP than an INTP. It's always possible that you identify strongly as an INTP because you admire the thinking archetype. You see individuals like Robert Downey Jr. and think to yourself "Gosh, I want to be more like -that-." and this affects your self diagnosis and testing.

This sort of behavior is not altogether uncommon, and there is actually a term for it. It's called being in the Grip of your inferior function. When an INFJ or INTJ is in the grip, they surround themselves with luxury even if they can't afford it. They spend all of their money on expensive food (Like really big delicious cakes, for instance.) or strive to cultivate an atmosphere where they live. This isn't because they actually rely on their Extraverted Sensing, it's just a half-hearted attempt to satisfy the rumblings of their inferior function.

993792

You know what? I had to take a step back for a bit, but you have managed to convince me about Celestia being INTJ. My problem with the argument was that I was actually still reacting to an image I saw a long time ago that tried to shoehorn a pony into each of the 16 different categories. They had chosen to go with Twilight as the INTP, and that blew my mind to pieces. From the perspective of 1 pony for each slot, Celestia makes for a far better INTP candidate than Twilight does, but with that as the only measuring stick, nearly EVERY other pony makes a better candidate for INTP.
So yeah, "best fit" wasn't the proper stance to be arguing that point from.
I still think that either your assessment of the INTP group is limited (or the functional stacks themselves are sacrificing the ability to account for variance in order to preserve their own structure) or I've apparently managed to find some sort of mental loophole in the system. But if you're actually interested in hearing about that, let me know in a private message, and we'll resume that particular battle there.

991655
And just to keep things on topic. Go look up the INFJ group for ideas for how Luna's character should act. I've seen a lot of other people on this thread talking about viewing her as "trapped" and "lonely" but most of that is circumstantial, which you've said at the very beginning you plan to have her as neither princess, nor displaced from time, so all of those are superficial modifiers to her characters based on circumstances that you wont even have happening. The INFJ is likely the best base character portrayal that you'll find for Luna.