Every little sub-fandom in the brony fandom has their own little set of Cliches that always seem to pop up, no matter how badly the author attempts to avoid them.
Now I ask: what do y'all consider to be cliches within our little irradiated subsector of the fandom?

The only one I can really think of is fact that everyone and their mother's uncle seems to make their own Steel Rangers faction

And now I bid y'all adieu with a song

3148899 , Joke's on you. My story isn't even going to mention Steel Rangers.
...
I guess one cliche I've noticed is the tendency to try and use as little of the Mary Sue trope as possible when writing a side-fic's main character. But in doing so, we create the exact opposite extreme: an Anti-Sue. The characters that won't do anything right are just as painful to read as (and sometimes more so than) the characters that do everything right.

It's hard to find the "right balance" of traits, weaknesses, and development. To be honest, I don't think anyone has found that balance yet. Sure, there are several well-played efforts, but none have completely captured that essence of perfect imperfection. (Wow, I just taught myself a new oxymoron today.)

3148899
Well the main ones I notice are as follows.

Hero raises from obscurity after leaving their stable

Hero needs to leave stable to find new Water Talisman

Hero is redeemed raider

Something about cryo-pods

Amnesia (sweet bucking Celestia the amnesia )

These are the main ones I point out, I know there's more but these ones stick out to me for some reason, and keep in mind I have a reprehensible log of every FoE story on this site in my favorites so I know most of them.

Not to say there aren't good versions of those cliches out there. From what I've heard Memory is a very good fic, and I know Raider and Kid is an amazing comic.

Cliches aren't innately bad it just depends on how you use them and most just gladly trot out the same thing that's been done so many times its not even funny.

What about a Raider being redeemed by the souls of those he killed? Or retell Futurama which would mean cryo-pod?

Anyway that's my take on the thing.

Lesbians. It's not FoE without a lesbian.

Anti-Machine Rifles pop up like clockwork. It's the Go-To weapon when a protagonist has to fight anything bigger than a radroach.

Unique weapons. I've seen good ones, and I've seen bad ones.
A 12.7 pistol that has the character's name scratched into the mouthgrip but doesn't have special abilities? A believable and reasonable unique weapon.
A lever-action shotgun whose only notable feature is how damn durable it is? Sounds good to me.
An AM Rifle with a silencer and recoil-reducing gem? A bit much, but still believable.
A .44 revolver that is almost silent and fires soul-destroying bullets, and can have a longer barrel attached to make it a sniper rifle? Now we're getting crazy.

3149505 The Water Talisman cliche is actually really interesting to me, in that it doesn't seem to be all that common. Off the top of my head, I remember one fic where the Stable Pone left to find a water talisman.
Sure, water talismans pop up from time to time, but they're rarely the story starting McGuffin you'd expect.

3149611
I've seen four or five where that's the plot given in the description. They aren't better known but I know ALL the FoE fics.

Also not sure what the first ones from.

Second is Broken Guise of Chaos I assume.

Third Spitfire's Thunder from the original.

And the last one is one of BlackJack's isn't it? I know which it is just don't remember the name off the top of my head (PH not one of my more faverite stories but that's for another place (and probably not even there because I'd end up starting a flame war )).

So am I three for four?

3149630 Mind pointing me towards a couple of them? Like I said, I haven't seen many.

You got 1/4.
First was Vigilance, from Project Horizons.
Second was, indeed, Broken from Guise of Chaos.
Third was a generalised dig at AM Rifles. I've seen so many of the things it isn't funny at this point, and more than a few have the recoil-reducing gem/enchanment. One or two had silencers as well.
Finally, we have Tweety, from A Pony of A Different Color. Good fic, batpoop-crazy weapons.

3149688
I guess I should watch less youtube and read more fics.

And yeah I'll PM you some later (on my Kindle watching Colbert right now (Jimmy Carter's the guest tonight) then @Midnight). I know of some right off my head.

Time for my opinion, men! (also women and whatever creeps this planet's surface)

- Stable/broken water talisman: I haven't read a fiction with that premiss (but that doesn't mean anything). It's very close to the original Original (Fallout 1), so maybe its an homage (ha, I've said it) to that one. But what I think is even "worse": a stable that's attacked by raiders. (I mean: raiders? They shouldn't be able to get through this door)
- unique weapons: they're a part of Fallout, so as long as they don't make the character invincible I'm fine with that
- lesbians: I don't think that's a "problem" of the FoE community alone. It tends to happen in every single collection fanfiction
- Amnesia: I agree. It's strange.
- stasis pods: can't say anything about that. I usually don't read them (okay, I do, but I don't like them that much)

New cliches to add:
- as above: raiders invading a stable
- Enclave doing some nasty shit to the protagonist and/or his/her/its hometown/stable/realm of existence
- Protagonist kills raiders without thinking about it (I mean, they're "sick fuckers" (technical terminus) but they're ponies nonetheless)
- Protagonist is an associate of some kind of military organisation, such as: Steel Ranger, Stable security or the Enclave's military (Okay, I'm guilty of that myself)

Oh, and one cannot forget the traditional desert city with a name suspiciously close to 'Vegas', of which I have seen at least six different spellings for.

Also, just my two cents: Cliches are not necessarily a bad thing, especially because there are only so many basic plots regarding a spinoff of another fanfiction. Let's take Guise to Chaos's protagonist:

1. Ex-Stable Dweller
2. Ex-Raider
3. Two Unique Weapons
4. Has Amnesia
5. Split Personality

Two-Kick Rip pings on some of the bigger/ more unrealistic cliches, especially the amnesia, but he's still one of the more believable protagonists in the fandom.

3151817
I don't think that either.
I think this thread only points out things/setting that are used a lot

For me a big cliche, at least in my opinion, is when Fallout: Equestria stories take themselves too seriously. Many of the ponies who traverse the wasteland are smoking, liquor drinking badasses whose companions are either similar, or the same. Now, I've read a lot of Fallout: Equestria side-stories. Probably more than I should have. Yet, in only a select few do I see a true relationship between characters form. Something that seems natural, with friendly banter, and joke making.

I'd like to see actual laughing when characters are happy -- so when those bad moments come it's more sad when their friends die. (Or get injured or whatever.)

I mean I too share the whole dislike for the general cliches. (I am guilty of having one or two myself.) But there will be cliches in almost anything. Whether they be minor, or large. I personally find that, like the original, people should revert to a change of pace in the dialogue. When your characters are sitting there, watching mundanely out into the vast emptiness have them throw around a few jokes. It'll add some depth to them, and keep the reader entertained. That's just my two cents.

3153308
Okay, for once I'm not guilty of any of this (at least as far as I can say).
My conflict doesn't originate in the Great War (well, it is a war, but it's the first war ever) and the Ministries are only slightly involved.

For the true neutral point:
Do you say it's a cliche that there are so many true neutral characters or no true neutral characters.

New cliche:
Protagonist (Stable/Enclave) being bullied in the past.

3148899 Here's one about the Steel Rangers: Steel Rangers are named after food, even to the point it gets ridiculous.

3153401
What exactly is true neutral in FoE? I'm sorry I never really understood all those nine-field-pictures.
Does that mean, the character's just wandering through the wastes, seeing some raiders attacking a village etc., thinks: "Nope, none of my business" and travels along?

To those mentioning water talismans, its up there with the biggest reasons of why a stable pony is put out into the wasteland, depending on how broad your take on wasteland getting in is. I was actually considering making a thread on how to better start a stable story, lumped with 'what a stable experiment can/can't be', and 'what's newsworthy' (and maybe something on weaponary- There is a strict limit of five legendary weapons per story! There aren't a lot of magically enchanted experimental weapons just lying around).

Anyway, I've yet to read one story (I am sticking to the 100k+ stories, so perhaps the multitude of shorter stories around 20-50k may have some) where a stable opened the normal way like most that opened supposedly did, such as the experiment forcingg a well prepared evacuation or enduring the set timeframe. A good chunk had their social experiments go very wrong in a non obvious way that wiped out the occupants. (That should have been easily stopped by the overpony).
3153394
Are they ever not at this point? And why is there a lack of canned food puns about it? I've only seen that corny joke a few times.

3153652
Note to me: involve tinned food puns, even if "my" Steel Ranger's just a scribe without armor.

Another cliche is everything being a conspiracy, especially when it involves a Stable.
If there's something wrong in a Stable, it's usually because Stable-Tec were doing an experiment and the Overpone was in on it.

Steel Ranger infighting. I've seen this a lot, usually between the "normal" Rangers (reclusive technophiles) and a group of "noble" Rangers (who want to help the Wastes) that usually side with the protagonist.

3153652 I've read one or two where the Stables worked just fine and opened normally. They're in the minority, though. I think Guise of Chaos had a Stable that opened normally, but I'm not 100% sure.

3153652
In my own A Ranger's Choices the stable was open normally. Afterwards they team up with the rangers all of whom are named after food, but personally I don't think that's so much a cliche as a standers. I mean was there any in the original not named after food? I see it as more of a tradition. But everyone's free to their opinions.

3149505

Imo, some cliches are only redeemable if they aren't the center of the plot, but instead, a plot device used to
advance the story to something bigger.

I'm guilty of the Water Talisman cliche. I used to be really angsty about it, but I've come to this somewhat reasuring conclusion: my only justification is that I needed something to get the protagonist out of his stable; it's supposed to be a passing problem (but a problem nonetheless) that leads to something even worse.

3149611

And about lesbians. I've got no problems with all things LGBT, but they're everywhere in the brony fandom, just been done too much everywhere

3155919 there are never enough lesbians.

3155919
Yes but that goes along with what I said. It's not that they're used it's just how they're used.

I could think of an interesting idea for everything I listed, watch

Hero raises from obscurity after leaving their stable: But they aren't actually a hero they just have a knack for being in the right place at the right time so everyone THINKS they're a hero. That would be funny.

Hero needs to leave stable to find new Water Talisman: Talisman was taken by someone on the outside after the stable's opening, so its not them looking for a new one its them trying to find their old one, this would also lead to an interesting conundrum when they finally find it because are they willing to take such a precious commodity that's probably helping a lot so that they can have their normal life back?

Hero is redeemed raider: I've brought this up in a blog about making a crossover with Fatal Frame (well a way to do it but that was focused on it being a crossover let's just work with normal wasteland), but like I said earlier have the ghosts of those they killed trying to train them for proper wasteland society. I mean come on only they can see the ones trying to train them so to everyone else they look crazy and they still have their episodes since they aren't actually reformed.

Something about cryo-pods: Like I said Futurama, but if we're trying to stick with non-crossovers maybe... Well... I know it could be done just not sure how.

Amnesia: Time travel? You know someone from the past but they don't know they're from pre-war because of amnesia, and just throughout they have flashbacks to the good times. That would actually be really interesting just eventually they find some article about themselves and it just comes flooding back. The amnesia isn't the main point its just a part to slowly drip feed hints about who they really are, hell it could end after only like ten chapters.

Again these are all just thoughts but I could probably come up with an inventive idea for most of the things on this list.

Hell
3154546 3153748 3153652 3153632 3153394 3153377 3151817 3149115 and 3148899
ALL OF YOU I want you to throw every FoE cliche you got at me! I'm up for the challenge I'll make up a new, creative spin on it. BRING IT ON!

(This is the kind of stuff I end up doing when I have to much free time on my hands... I need a life. )

3156007

LESBIANS!!!!!! Everypony is a lesbian

3156021
That's not really a plot thing that's a character trait but just do what they did in Heroes and have them ion denial. Or better yet instead of Filly Foolers have Colt Cuddlers like Just Like Clockwork.

3153652 Heh, I'll name one Canned Fish. And He/she will be the leader of a Steel Ranger Chapter.

3156035
Maybe you could create a plot (haha, I said it) around the pony being lesbian. Something like a Holy Crusade against everything "unnatural" by the...Church of Neo Unity (yeah, because they're all female too, damn you Tetragrammaton, why doesn't your brain work?)
And those Crusadors are all very bad and plan something even worse, like world domination - or even better - destroying Equestria, because they're evil and religious fanatics and stuff.

---Warning: Nonsense ahead---

Too many stories focus on an interesting plot, while the sexual orientation is just embellishment.
We need a FoE c/plot-fic (<- that last two paragraphs were a joke. do not, I repeat, NOT do that!)

3156007
That amnesia/time travel would be abit like those flash-backs in the Metro games. Not the shadowy ones with all the whispering, but the pre-war one. It was quite surprising and I read story that used something similar, just way more intense. So that would work maybe.

P.S.: don't create a monster you can't lay to waste afterwards. Trust me, I know about what I'm talking. All those arms...

3156316
So parody the Westboro Baptist Church got it.

3156325
Well I haven't played Metro so I didn't know that, doesn't surprise me that something like it's been done. But it hasn't been done in FoE and therefore isn't a cliche. I mean the amnesia thing is but the way I explained it being used isn't.

Also what monster do you think I've created? I'm just doing the kind of stuff I normally do.

3156474
I don't talk about what you created already, but about what you're going to do. This whole cliche-monstrosity-fic, it's going to consume us all. Everybody and -pony.
You and me and him and this other author over there...the entire world!

We're doomed!

3156494
Dude I'm not creating a fic, I'm giving others new spins on old cliche's. Telling them how they can still use them without making the same old same old.

I don't know if anyone will; take my advice but at the very least I'm putting the ideas out there.

Also I wouldn't expect ANYONE to combine all these ideas into one fic there'd be way to much going on.

These are main plot points, baselines for ideas, not something that you can just put it all in a pot and make a hodge poge.

3156510
OKay, sorry then...
It seems I missinterpreted a few of your words.

3156524
It happens my friend, it happens.

3156021

Yay, lesbians!

Oh, I've got one more; crazy/evil voices in your head of various origins with which you constantly argue.

3148899
"Hero leaves Stable" is a pretty big one on its own.

...which is exactly why I parodied it, by describing a protagonist heroically walking out the cogwheel door to set out into the Wastelands... only to reveal he's a Stable 1 Canterlot ghoul, and has been going in and out of that door for almost 2 centuries

3156316

There already has been an FOE clop fic

3163667
I have to admit, I don't read clopfic.
Do you hint at "a mare worth fighting for"? Because if so I would answer (as a non-clop reader (who I am (so, this isn't my opinion, it's just a stereotypical and faked opinion (speaking of cliches)))) that there still was too much comprehensible plot.

3163688
No... It involves a zebra mare and a Zebra stealth suit.

3163710
Okay.....(takes a few steps backwards)
Let's never talk about this again

Is there a Pinkie-Promise key combination?

3163667
Yes there has, and it is great. The clop itself is actually kind eh compared to some of the stuff I've read, but the character interactions are great and add onto the canon.

But I don't think there's enough Wasteland clop.

Or for that matter Wasteland romance. Ponies do fall in love out there! Hell, by the end of the main fic there's two married couples and one very active pair of marefriends! Every major side story seems to have at least one set of couples as well. But straight romance stories, with all the things such stories may entail? Nope, fuck that, let's have alicorns and heavy artillery blow shit up!

3163728

Indeed my friend

It left me going wat??? when I read it out of curiosity

3153377
I agree that stories can take themselves too seriously. I think what is really missing is a sense of sardonic humor. The original games had this kind of "spitting in the face of death" kind of thing, but I usually read about tears. What's up with that? Where's my "Here lies Lester Moore, four slugs from a .44, no Les no more." That stuff's hilarious!

Not to sound pompous (and if I do, I apologize), but in Fertile Ground I've done my best to give a malevolent personality to the environment to make it seem like it's laughing at the characters' attempts to change the reality in which they live. This leads to some differing thoughts about love, loss and permanence.

A common thing I've seen is writing in first person. I mean, where are all the "Choose Your Own Wasteland Fate" stories?

3171224
Please clarify: What do you mean with the choose your own fate =/= first person? Can't a stroy do both? Or do you mean a lack of 2nd-person stories?

I agree with you at the humor part. Some (cruel) jokes and funny things here and there are good to lighten to mood and/or make the world feel more alive.
I haven't read your story yet (and I'm terribly sorry for that), but I think it's just much easier to establish emotions via tragedy-elements. (I have to admit, I'm one of those authors who stick rather to the tragedy part) And it's also very easy to kill said emotions with one misplaced joke.
I think it's a heavy risk not many authors want to take.

3171963
As far as first person vs. second person, I was just being silly. But really, compared to the amount of first-person stories, there aren't that many third and basically no second-person. I don't necessarily see this as bad. I must point out that I do prefer third-person limited, though. Everyone's biased, right?

I haven't read your story yet (and I'm terribly sorry for that),

There are eight-gajillion FO:E stories. There's no need to be upset about not reading one.

I think it's just much easier to establish emotions via tragedy-elements. (I have to admit, I'm one of those authors who stick rather to the tragedy part) And it's also very easy to kill said emotions with one misplaced joke.
I think it's a heavy risk not many authors want to take.

I agree. Don't feel bad about hanging out with tragedy or conflict. Conflict is the interesting part of any story. As far as killing the mood with a misplaced joke, I love that when it's done the way things happen in real life. Alan Moore wrote an issue of The Maxx (by Sam Kieth, it is far and away my favorite comic) and in it (MINOR SPOILER) a very dramatic mood is ruined when a character asks for Fritos. Yeah, I've been to funerals where the mood is lightened by someone's off-color joke about the recently departed. Sometimes it's all the sunshine you got!

I'm sure you have that ability. I say take the risk. As Puff the Magic Dragon says: "You may fail, but at least you have made the effort!"

3153419
If you think about True Neutrality, it's quite the most complicated morality you can get. True neutral characters are neither selfless enough to be altruistic nor selfish enough to be egotistical. In a sense, they see good as naive, but they try to stay away from evil.
True neutral characters can be bland if done incorrectly, but they can also be a strong character as they themselves can be a speaking grounds for opposing viewpoints, especially in gray and grey moralities like FoE. They will help and defend themselves, friends and family that the character may care about. They can be motivated by personal goals or self-propelled. In a sense, he only follows or breaks the rules if they are in his best interests.
So for your example, True Neutral characters may do that, but they first balance the risks, outcomes and possible ramifications to determine their course of action. If the character can have the raiders' stuff, then he might help the town. If there are too many raiders, then he might just walk away. The key word here is self-interest, but self-interest is different from greed.
Don't assume True Neutral characters to believe in a philosophy of balancing opposites, as their actions to maintain that equilibrium can make them be deemed as chaotic neutral.
The advantages of True Neutral characters is that because the are not constrained by virtues or vice, they are free to act naturally and without prejudice or compulsion.
The disadvantages is that their lack of allegiance and their indifference can land them into more trouble with rivaling forces.

I have to say I've read a few to many that include ponies who are pacifists to fighting other ponies or need to be coached into it

3213777
If you've got a pony with a stable- or somehow else civilized background (e.g. enclave pegasus), that's the logical thing to do. Very few (at least if you tend to do things a little bit more realistic) ponies/people are born fighters. If you've got a protagonist who is normal minded, he/she won't just kill other people even if he/she could or to eliminate a potential threat. Not killing each other is a achievement of modern society and that's what the Stables are about. To preserve the civilisation.

3214025
Truebut as a persona once told me "the doctors oath to "do no harm" is bullshit how can you vaccinate wiout a syringe entering the body or remove a defective organ without cutting the flesh it is needed to cause harm to stop future harm" but that's off topic
What I'm talking about is unnecessary pacifists I can understand initial hesitation but after a while even stable ponies should get that some ponies will kill them for what they have and the social norm is everyone might be out to kill you and the only thing keeping them friendly is the knowledge that they are ready to kill them if they make a move, I think this is bes shown by littlepip when she refused to kill the raider gave (I forge his name Monty something) the cheese Guy a primary survival advantage over her in he could get her supplys without worry of death but when littlepip pulled the gun he backed off even if it was a bluff because he knew not to risk it

3214713
I agree with you, after being shot at a pony should understand that those other ponies are up to no good. But on the other hand, there might me some ideologist out there in the wasteland, with naive faith in ponykind, who might say: "Well, ones like those shot at me a few days ago, but maybe this ones will act different. I'm not threat to them, am I?"

I don't recall a story in which the MC shows compassion for raiders and slavers longer than the first encounter if at all. I think the amount of stable ponies who turn into cold-blooded killers the moment they see or endure something bad is "too" high.

As for the doctors' oath: it is meant that they don't use their knowledge to do damage knowingly, just too cure people, so I wouldn't say this oath is bullshit. Paracelsus said something along the lines: "the only difference between poison and medicine is the amount of poison."

3148899 OO OO I got one! Any and all Fallout Equestria stories that have a lesbo or bi main character that is female and a unicorn, and they have to mope around for a good 1/4 to 1/2 of the whole story while the rest of the story is useless dialogue or the main character being overly badass. Fallout Equestria stories in a nutshell right there, and a lot of cliché's...

3217112
I think we already had that one.
Every mare is a lesbian or bi, and the stallions are either gay or sex fiends aka raiders.