Why do you like NEMIC? · 5:09pm May 2nd, 2017
So, I just got a review back from the Reviewer's Cafe for Not Every Mark is Cute. The reviewer said he thought Brawler had a bad case of the Mary Sue's, was 'badass' only in the emo hot topic sense, and was completely unlikable. He stated that he knew people who were 'fighters' and none of them act like Brawler. In fact he found the way Brawler acted to be insulting to people he cared about. He also couldn't get behind Brawler's goal of reintroducing violence to Equestria. Arguing that if anything, that would make society worse. Thus, he hated the fact that Celestia was the villain because she simply had Equestria's best interests in mind.
(PLEASE no one go after this guy. He took the time to give my story an honest review and I'm grateful he listed all the problems he had with my work)
When I take a step back and look at my story, I can see where the reviewer comes from.
So why do you guys like the story so much?
What I like about this story is that The Mane Six (Twilight in particular) are finally beginning to Celestia for what she truly is.
I just think of it as an expanded idea like all the other fanfics on this site of basically 'X did a thing and made Y angry, but made Z curious'. Angry pony that kicks teeth in is an amusing addition to the equation that dose not include the 'Dark', 'Sad', 'Gore', or 'Mature' tags that make this very compelling. Too many stories with those tags as it is, And this one is done with just 'Slice of Life' and 'AU' tags while keeping it off the mature rating.
Tho there seems to be hints that a 'Romance' tag may be needed down the line.
I personally like how it addresses issues that would naturally be in a utopia. Not to mention it shows that even the most bevenolent of people aren't perfect. It's well written, and makes people think. It sounds like this bad reviewer may be like the Flash Sentry haters, the ones that seem to only focus on the flaws of a character.
One of the things I like is seeing Celestia not being perfect and is, in fact, a manipulator that cares only for her own Ideology, NOT Equestria's best interest but only her own. She never once considered that her approach to fighters might be the wrong one. And Brawler isn't reintroducing violence to Equestria: as we saw in a certain mare's memories, violence has ALWAYS existed, and has nothing to do with the fighters. At all. And had never gone away. All Celestia has done was unjustly condemn an entire subset of ponies just because their talents didn't line up with her ideology. All Brawler has been doing is shoving that fact in Celestia's face, and showing her for the hypocrite she is, which the last chapter really showed strongly.
In all honesty I have NO idea where the reviewer came up with Brawler being the one reintroducing violence when he has done a great deal to prevent it; he was, and still is in my view, resistant to the idea as he doesn't want the crusaders to go through what he did. Currently, all he is doing is training potential guards (even if it is a technical work around with the crusaders).
Brawler doesn't strike me as a Mary Sue either. Mary Sue's are perfect in every way. Brawler has all sorts of personal flaws, which is why I like him; anger issues, social issues, and haunted memories. It sounds like the reviewer said 'Mary Sue' only in that he is an unbeatable fighter, which considering there are few people who practice so much, no duh he seems like it. Sure, I wouldn't like Brawler too much in real life, but the fact is he strikes me as real, reacting to what has happened to him in a completely appropriate way. And for him not acting like the 'fighters' the reviewer knows, I have known a few 'fighters' in my time. Some were good guys, a few were assholes (much like Brawler), but damn if they weren't all honorable opponents to each other in the ring.
Twilight's reaction to everything is one of the best parts of the entire thing. She's seeing her idol laid bare, that Celestia is not perfect, and is, in fact, doing something that goes completely contrary to what she, as the Princess of Friendship, represents. She now has to really come into her own, even if it means going up against her former mentor, even if she is uncertain about everything, and how fast its all happening.
One of the only gripes I have is that, considering how important Cackling Lightening, a fighter, was in the Changeling War, no one has brought up fighters in relation to the recent changeling invasion at the wedding.
No offense to the reviewer, but he shouldn't have reviewed this story since he has obviously let his personal feelings effect said review. It sounds as if he is exactly like the Celestia of this story in that he cares more for his personal ideology, and since your story appears to be contrary to it, put more condemnation into it than he should have.
4517451 What this guy said.
To me the story gives a unique look at a utopia , in that their will always be the rabble rousers that go against the flow even in the perfect society, and deals with how they are addressed. I have to agree with the reviewer in terms of his sueish nature. Though Brawler isn't anywhere near the biggest Mary Sue i have seen, i would give him a 2 /10 on the Sue O meter, but to expect everyone in a particular group (Fighters in this case) to behave a certain way is bullcrap. Could he honestly with 100% certainty tell me that no 'fighter' out there behaves anything like Brawler? Brawler is Brawler, not the people in his life. To expect Brawler to conform to the behavioural patterns of his friends in anyway is ludacris. Though i can understand him taking offense to something that could possibly paint someone's views of fighters and by extension his friends in a negative light, keep in mind that the people who read a FanFic and think all fighters are like Brawler would be at home with the groups of people who suspect every Brony to be a pervert without ever meeting one. Cattle the lot of them.
While your reviewer has a few good points keep in mind that we read your story for your story, not what someone else thinks it should be. I can say with absolute certainty that if Brawler was as cocky as Rainbow Dash, as timid as Fluttershy or as hyper as Pinkie i wouldn't be following this story and it wouldn't have gotten my like or fave, i read this story in part for Brawler's personality so that does not need to change. If anything is to change i would say interspace the positives in his life with more negatives to balance out the whole Mary Sue issue, and even then we read and love your story as is so that may not be necessary.
Again, your current fanbase is here for your story as is, not for what others think it could be, between me and the reviewer you can see our personal preferences in his review and this comment of mine. He obviously dislikes all form of Mary Sues while i like darker stories but am ok with Mary Sues so long as the story is written in such a way to be entertaining regardless.
I suggest you take every bit of advice you get in regard to your story with a grain of salt and only make changes you honestly believe will make your story better.
4517451 This comment covers most of what I like about NEMIC, as well as my counter-arguments against the negative reviewer. However, there are two points here I wish to expand on.
First, regarding the accusation of Brawler being a Mary Sue. To be a Mary Sue, a character needs to not only be perfect, but to be so perfect that they effortlessly solve any and all conflict in the story on their own, and always in the way that they want it resolved. This doesn't describe Brawler at all. First, he had to beg Luna to let him go free after his escape, even after she confirmed he was acting in self-defense when he fought the guards. Next, after Luna agreed to let him go free if the Elements didn't affect him, she altered the deal behind his back to instead have him placed under virtual house arrest in Ponyville so Twilight could "teach him the Magic of Friendship", which in this context sounds an awful lot like a euphemism for re-programming. And when Brawler found out about this alteration and objected, the response was "too bad, you have no say in this". Up next, until Soulful Fire made an ass of himself in front of Twilight and Brawler, Twilight was actively looking for an excuse to lock Brawler up again, to the point that she was going to arrest him for participating in a food fight that was set up specifically for him to participate in. And as coldsilverd notes, Brawler didn't want to train the CMC, and actively discouraged them from following the Fighters' path, yet now he's training them. Also on a lesser note, Brawler didn't want Rarity to provide the renovations to the dojo, but that didn't stop her from doing so anyway.
Second, on why Brawler was able to beat so many guards on his own. As coldsilverd noted, he's naturally gifted at fighting and has been training to fight for years, but I think that's only half of the equation here. The other side is, given how much Celestia abhors violence in all forms, it's not unreasonable to assume that the guards' training is crap.
Unfortunately for the author, I have a couple criticisms of my own against the story. However, neither of these points are dealbreakers for me (or at least, not yet), and they can probably be fixed down the line.
The first, lesser criticism I have is the fact that no one has, as of yet, admitted that it was the guards that were in the wrong in the fight that landed Brawler in prison, and neither has anyone acknowledged his heroism in saving the mare that the first guard was forcing himself on.
The second problem, however, runs much deeper. This problem is, the mistreatment of Brawler and past fighters at Celestia's hooves, as horrible as it is, is only a symptom of a much larger issue. Between the injustices committed against Brawler by Luna and Twilight that I mentioned above, along with Fire Cracker's farce of a trial and Celestia's actions in general, it's painfully obvious that in Equestria, the only rights the commoners have is those the princesses allow them to have. As such, even after Fighters regain equal standing in Equestria, there's nothing stopping this happening to another group. What if all the princesses decide that some other group doesn't "deserve" to walk free? What if an ideal crops up that the princesses deem "too dangerous" to be allowed to flourish? What if the princesses come up with some new ideal that they support so much that they decide that the commoners "need" to adopt it? The persecution of fighters in Equestria is certainly an injustice that needs to be rectified, but at this point, it's just a symptom of the fact that Equestria's government itself is unjust, and needs to have some heavy reforms to curb its power instated at the very least.
EDIT: One more criticism I have: so far, no one's acknowledged that Luna was wrong to alter her deal with Brawler behind his back.
While the reviewer isn't wrong , their review doesn't read like they came in or wrote it with an open mind. Kinda like how anyone with an MFA has their own opinion on what constitutes "art" and if your work doesn't conform they won't so much as give you the time of day.
Two things I would really take away from it. 1) Celestia is OOC. Yeah, it's tagged AU but she lacks the nuance to really be both who she is and the antagonist the story needs. I'm not certain it's possible for her to fulfill both roles. Any other OC in her position would have worked, because they're an OC and only have the backstory you give them. That would allow them to be a mercury chugging despot, or any other combination of qualities you typically don't want in a leader. Celestia on the other hand ruled Equestria for a millennium, and portraying her as having major flaws is difficult to do without upsetting someone. 2) Brawler also feels off. His motivation is anger at how he was treated. In response he ... trains fillies? For him to seem more "real" wouldn't necessarily be a good thing either, because nobody here wants to read the story of a felon getting rejected for every job he applies for and eventually contributing to the recidivism rate. I don't have a solution for you. While turning anger into sweat is what he's doing, it's a physical event. It doesn't explain or affect where he's going to go overall in life.
TL;DR: The reviewer is flawed himself. Celestia is shoehorned into the antagonist role even with the AU tag, and there is a disconnect between Brawler's motivations and actions.
Edit: Stay salty. If I didn't like the story I wouldn't be here.
When thinking about the review's points I can't really say that I agree with them well.
For one I don't see Brawler as any type of "Mary Sue". To be that a character has to be perfect in everything they try and they must be like by pretty much everyone. That is not Brawler in any sort of way. Celestia, Luna and Twilight were all ready to send him straight back to the dungeon the moment he was released. Even though they didn't he is still at their mercy with the way they tried to manipulate situations against him. The rest of the Mane Six didn't even like him at the beginning and had to come somewhat warm up to him.
Then we have the fact he is so badass at fighting, well yay it's kind of his thing. Brawler is literally his name, what you expect him to be good at, sewing? He is really good because fighting it's what he's talented at. Also when you think about the society that they live in where violence is abhorred I don't really expect any pony to have any semblance of really fighting experience to take down someone whose talent is fighting, including the Guard.
Then we have the honestly stupid comment about him reintroducing violence into Equestria. Violence is always apart of any society, there is no such thing as a perfect society because no two people are going to agree on every single thing. Then when they can't settle these ideas they resort to violence. Also Brawler literally stated that he didn't want to train the CMC at all because he didn't want them to deal with the things he had to. He only agreed to it because knowing those three they would of tried it anyway and gotten hurt, this way they have at least someone watching them that has at least some knowledge about what they're doing to guide them.
Finally about Celestia, I don't see her as a villain. Sure she did some pretty bad things to ponies but she did them believing that they were necessary. And more often than not they kind of were, Cracking Lighting was a seriously fucked up pony that relished the violence of the war that broke her. Fire Cracker ,while a pony that needed help, did lash out against others in violence just because she could. Brawler, himself, even said that not every fighter has some sort of sob story that justifies there actions, it doesn't work like that. Does this justify her actions, not at all. She ended up persecuting those that were talented at fighting because they wouldn't follow the peace she was trying to create and ended up hurting them more when they could of been given the help that they needed. Now her actions are coming back against her when her own peers start seeing what she has done against a select few and they aren't happy at all.
Though I do have a few issue like the topics of what happened to Brawler not being actually talked about and brushed over. Being kept in prison that long should of seriously fucked up any normal person. The we have the fact that no one is trying to find out the real truth about why Brawler attacked the guards and try to let it be known. However these all can addressed later one cause I hope you're not done with this story cause of one bad reviewer.
Your fan base likes this story because they enjoy what you're putting out. I can't wait to see if Celestia is going to have a realization to all the things she has condemns others for and we have Brawler face his issues. I can't wait to see where this story will go.
Cause... I like it when Celestia is the bad guy. Stories about how she has manipulated history in some way to make a perfect utopia of non-violence and stuff. And I like the main character, he ain't do anything wrong by being a fighter, but if he uses it for criminal deeds then go ahead and arrest him.
I'm not a huge fan of celestia, to be perfectly honest I DESPISE her. But your version is ok. She's not "the sun shines from my princessly ass but I'll never do anything" nor is she "pony Dio Brando" she feels like a fair representation of a character.
As for the fighting stuff well I'm a bit biased. I. Love. Violence. From loud screaming arguments, to slap fights, all the way to blood knuckle boxing. So a world with barely anything even resembling fighting bothered me a bit. Yours has some violence that's at a Ok level for me to believe could be in equestria.
4517650 Funny how you're Flash Sentry with Dio's face. Anyway, how is Celestia like DIo again?
I didn't read NEMIC because I faved it at some point and forgot about it. But when I read it, it felt like I've had the best thing since Fallout Equestria and Tales of the Battle Foals. Good stories immerse the reader, and this one is no different. I also didn't think that the "Magic of Friendship" can be used for brainwashing, though.
4517723 I didn't say she was. what I meant was the fandom (and early canon) presented her as Godly mentor figure of awesomeness who doesn't do shit.
The other side of the fandom usually has her like Dio. Charismatic, Evil, manipulative, and petty. I will say again I'm not saying this is how she is, just how she is portrayed most of the time.
this celestia doesn't fall too far into either end of the spectrum. She has her good points (like high queen sunbutt) and her bad points (like princess edge lord).
4517903 I always thought that Luna was more edgelord than her sister.
Well I like Brawler since he's a complex character who enjoys brutal and dangerous slugfests that the Royal Guard trains to avoid because of the minimal violence Celestia desires. I think he knows a few too many useful contacts for having been in prison so long, there's not as much distrust and friction between Brawler and some ponies, he seems to have come out unscathed from so many formative years in prison that should have really messed him up emotionally/mentally/physically. Other than that I think the only complaint I have is he's not getting into a lot of messy situations where his mark can shine. But I really like the idea that an authoritarian monarch with no opposition can absolutely screw over their subjects with good intentions. I think Celestia was a bit quick to feel repentant, it just seemed too smooth in one experience. So all in all, keep doing what you're doing because it's great. I like when Brawler brawls, when there's friction between Brawler with ponies and I'd like a bit more of a character arc from both Celestia and Brawler. (Brawler's not a Mary Sue, but any character can become one if they a) aren't actually challenged b) they have no character arc and c) if they have nothing to lose or ways to lose those things they care about.) I'm looking forward to more!
i would read it and rate it but the red canceled is discerning, cant get my hopes up only for it to leave on a cliff hanger or something
5438122
Doesn't stop on a cliffhanger, but it's not exactly satisfying. I included a summary of where I planned the story to go, but I don't have it in me to finish it.