Solving the Chronological Problems in S6E23 "Where the Apple Lies" · 12:00pm Oct 23rd, 2016
Introduction
There are two major chronological problems in the long flashback story "Where the Apple Lies," one of which has been mentioned (and at least one absurd explanation proposed) and one of which has been entirely ignored. The mentioned problem is easily solved; the second one is more difficult.
I. Where Is Apple Bloom?
It is obvious that the flashback takes place after the one in "The Cutie Mark Chronicles," because Applejack has her Cutie Mark.
Here is Applejack (and Big Mac and Granny Smith) at the start of AJ's flashback in "The Cutie Mark Chronicles"
And here are AJ and Mackie in "Where the Apple Lies"
Now, it's obvious that AJ and Mackie are at least a year or two older in the second picture than they are in the first. Big Mac is larger and his muzzle more squared; Applejack's face looks adolescent rather than fillyish.
It's also obvious that the Apple parents are already dead in both flashbacks. If not, why aren't they seeing Applejack off in the first flashback? And why aren't they the ones likely to take over the farm after Granny retires in the second one?
Also absent in both pictures is Apple Bloom. But if Apple Bloom is the full sibling of both Big Mac and AJ, she must already have been born at the time of the first flashback, and thus also at the time of the second.
So, where is she?
This is easily answered. If the flashback in TCMC takes place right after the death of the Apple Parents, then Apple Bloom is an infant, probably spending most of her time in a crib, playpen, or otherwise being watched (by whom? Any of a number of kin, or for that matter neighbors could be babysitting her). There's no reason for her to be there when Applejack is leaving Sweet Apple Acres.
However, if WtAL takes place 2-3 years later, then Apple Bloom is now a toddler (and in any case Ponies are more physically precocious than Humans). So where is she now? Why doesn't she show up at any point?
Again, somepony else could be babysitting her. Her non-appearance on screen doesn't mean her non-existence -- after all (unlike the Apple parents) a toddler has neither full freedom to wander about, nor any pressing responsibilites to be involved in Applejack's future life plans or the farm's business dealings with Filthy Rich.
This makes far more sense than the notion that Apple Bloom is the daughter of Applejack (by whom? At what age?), or adopted, or any number of stranger possibilities.
But there's a more difficult question.
II. Where's Diamond Tiara?
We know that Diamond Tiara is roughly as old as Apple Bloom. We also know that Filthy Rich is Diamond Tiara's father. Presumably, Spoiled Milk-Rich is Diamond Tiara's mother.
Yet we meet Filthy Rich and Diamond Tiara in WtAL, and they are merely betrothed. Possibilities:
(A) Diamond Tiara is actually only the child of one, or neither of them - Maybe. They both look pretty young (late adolescent or early twenties) but it's possible one of them had a failed earlier marriage (or other sexual relationship) leading to the production of Diamond Tiara. Or, she might be adopted. Neither would be that strange.
(B) Diamond Tiara was born out of wedlock to Filthy Rich by Spoiled Milk - Which would make her name a crueller pun than it already is. Certainly possible, though odd behavior between two rich families by Human standards. Filthy Rich is consistently honorable; this may be one reason why he married her, with both of them deeming it important that Filthy complete school first.
(C) Diamond Tiara is younger than she seems - Possible, but then it's odd that she has been consistently in a leadership position at her school. Yes, it's her Talent to lead, but a few years of age difference means a lot when you're pre-adolescent to early-adolescent. It seems unlikely that she could be more than a year or two younger than Apple Bloom, if younger at all.
Conclusion: I hold Apple Bloom to be the full sibling (rather than child) of Applejack, because there's no hint otherwise, and Applejack doesn't seem likely to have been sexually active in her early teens. I think Diamond Tiara must be about the same age, and consequently that she was born before Filthy Rich and Spoiled Milk's marriage -- though possibly the child of only one of them. It's notable though that Filthy Rich tends to be honorable toward mares and kindly toward fillies, so it's possible that they jumped the gun and Filthy still honored his responsibility toward his intended.
I hold that Spoiled Milk does love Filthy Rich; you can see it every time he is affectionate to her like hugging or nuzzling she smiles. I also hold that she followed him around all day on a snipe hunt without much trouble or complaints. Plus she had a lot of pride in him for stating to run the store for just a betrothed. My though is Apple Bloom is older then Diamond and maybe Sliver Spoon and the other CMC. I think Spoiled had just gotten with foal and that's way Filthy Rich was both marrying his long time lover and running the store. The former is a matter of honor, the latter a test from Stinking Rich to see if he can be responsible and a provider. Well that's my head cannon.
There is another possibility: Diamond Tiara was adopted, either at a young enough age that she doesn't remember or either not acknowledging or not caring that she isn't actually the biological daughter of her beloved father. This would explain why she never went for the "dead parents" low blow; she knows she's on shaky ground herself.
Well, that and even Diamond Tiara at her worst had her limits.
Word of God says "yes, but no". AB (and presumably DT) weren't born yet in either episode, and the Apple parents were away on vacation in WtAL.
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You can believe as much of that as you want.
The question remains: Why not show them? Why the omission? It just raises questions that even a kid would be like, "what the hell?"
One conclusion I could draw is that Sweet Apple Acres itself isn't her childhood home. Perhaps they lived nearby in a house and the and their parents came to SAA to work and visit/take care of Granny?
Perhaps, AJ's Mom didn't get along stellar with the Apple Matron? Needed space?
4267593
In addition to being word of god, I'd say this also passes Occam's Razor.
Note that we haven't seen Scootaloo's parents at any important event in her life, and we only rarely see Sweetie Belle's parents there. If you want to get world buildy about it, it might just be that Equestria has slightly different kinship relationships than we do, where parents are considered equally important as siblings and/or grandparents-- so your mom missing something important would be no bigger a deal than your sister missing it, as long as a parent OR sibling was there for support. That would also fit with Sweetie staying with Rarity so often for no obvious reason, and with Zephyr Breeze immeaditly heading to Fluttershy when their parents kicked him out.
I do still like the headcanon that AJ went to Manehattan in response to her parent's death, but that doesn't mean it needs to be canon.
4267734 Suppose that instead of running away to Manehattan in response to her parents' death, Applejack left when it first became clear they were mortally sick and would die soon?
So, for the couple years between Cutie Mark Chronicles and Where the Apple Lies, the parents have been "on vacation" at an intensive-care hospital. For whatever reason, Apple Bloom was born there. And then - probably shortly after Where the Apple Lies - they die.
Interesting look at things.
This is what we get when the show runners smile and shrug like idiots when we ask for a definite chronology because it's-a-show-for-little-girls-and-their-brains-are-too-tiny-to-remember-dates and when they get coy about the status of absent parents: mishegoss.
It's a good point, but I will say that one of the ways ponies are most profoundly different from us physiologically and psychologically is the existence of cutie marks. One of the ways pony adolescence is different is that puberty basically hits all at once, a mark appears and you are more mature than everyone without one, at least in the eyes of all other adolescents.
Watching the very first Apple Bloom episode, it seems like she actually gets along with Diamond Tiara until DT gets her cutie mark. Apple Bloom is willing to pass her notes, wants to go to her party, etc. If Diamond Tiara was say two years younger than Apple Bloom, I could see it being quite plausible that she views herself as more mature, higher status than Apple Bloom once she gets her cutie mark, an eight year old with the mark is considered more adult than a ten year old blank flank. If Diamond and Silver Spoon were younger than the CMC, it would also help explain why no adults seem to take their actions seriously most of the time.
I will say that I could totally see Spoiled getting herself knocked up deliberately, and Filthy doing the honorable thing.
4267586 I noticed that too. Spoiled has a ton of faults, but in both episodes she's appeared in the one thing she can't handle is upsetting Filthy Rich. It would also go a long way towards explaining what Filthy sees in Spoiled.
This is a good stab at trying to explain some rather big problems with how this story fits into the (assumed) show timeline, but the episode still feels like a mess. I begin to think that the only real attitude we can take towards the show is 'It's for kids, it doesn't have to make sense'. Which stinks but we're not the ones making it.
4268873
Very good point about the Cutie Marks. This could have Apple Bloom born in YOH 1490 and Diamond Tiara in 1492, with Spoiled actually pregnant with her in that episode (and this being one reason why Filthy is almost frantic to produce a big splashy success right away; he wants to marry her before she starts to show, and also after scoring a business coup to impress everypony. This makes the rivalry between Apple Bloom and Diamond Tiara all the sharper, especially since Apple Bloom isn't socially-aggressive the way Diamond Tiara is.
As for Filthy -- yes. His saving grace, and what makes him an overall good Pony, is his deep honor and genuine love for Spoiled and DT. He's an ambitious Pony, and sometimes a bit ruthless in pursuit of his ambition, but he doesn't cheat and he loves his family. And Filthy and Spoiled's affect towards each other is loving all through that episode. Spoiled, for her part, is snobbish, but she's not a monster. She clearly cares about her daughter -- she just has a misguided notion of how she should exercise her talent.
Diamond Tiara being younger than the CMC also sharpens things in my planned future rivalry between DT and Sweetie Belle over Button Mash at one point. They don't exactly hate each other over this, but Sweetie does feel Diamond's only playing with him (an opinion actually shared by DT regarding Sweetie), while Diamond (though she won't admit it) envies Sweetie's superior ability to charm colts. Neither of them actually get him in the end -- at least, not as a husband.
4268875
I think the ep left some serious things unexplained; the writers didn't seem to realizing they were implying Apple Bloom was older than Diamond Tiara. I do not think they were trying to imply that Apple Bloom hadn't been born yet.
4268913 I agree mostly, although I would say that Filthy seems to have quite a lot of other good qualities. He's a smart, honest, creative, hardworking businessman who cares about his family and community. I think it's Spoiled for whom love of spouse and child is her only saving grace.
I hadn't thought about how Filthy seemed really anxious before, but now that you bring it up it's true he does seem overly excited. Spoiled being pregnant would certainly sharpen his desire to be a good provider and not be the "weak link in the chain" of the Rich family, so to speak.
Dang it man, that love triangle between DT, SB and Buttons sounds really good! I have to find out who gets the Mash here, which one of your stories is it?
4268927 While i agree that Spoiled's love for her spouse and child are her best quality, I kinda think she wasn't the one who tickled her tail under her stallion's nose to bind him to her side. Actually I kinda see Filthy Rich, who is very charismatic when he wants to be, charming a young jewelry store clerk into lifting her tail. I think Spoiled's talent is for accessorizing and with a meta-talent in synergy. I kinda see her as a more Status-hungry and less charitable version of Rarity. She, coming form the dairy clan who most likely own a cow hostel, seems to be someone from a poorer status who wants and has a talent to go higher. That type of person could be easily impressed and charmed by the richest and one of the most high status stallions in town.
In fact someone who is that status focused would have realized that getting pregnant without a marriage coming along is extremely risky and I don't think Spoiled is the type of mare who loves kids, so yeah I kinda see this one as mostly Filthy's fault.
4268913 As for Filthy -- yes. His saving grace, and what makes him an overall good Pony, is his deep honor and genuine love for Spoiled and DT. He's an ambitious Pony, and sometimes a bit ruthless in pursuit of his ambition, but he doesn't cheat and he loves his family.
I wish the writers of IDW's most recent story had kept this in mind. Rather than turning Filthy into such a shallow idiot that calling him a 'caricature' would be giving it too much credit. Then again they seem to have some real difficulty in getting anyone's character much like it is in the show, to the point where I wonder if they didn't just decide, 'Well, the fans will complain no matter what we do, so who cares?'
4269057 Hmm. I think you've described Spoiled's origins perfectly, born of a dairy clan, working as a jewelry clerk, and all that. And it is true that Filthy can be quite charming when he wants to be. However, throughout this episode Filthy seems quite focused, almost obsessed, with building his reputation as a proper-business stallion and pillar of the community that his father can trust to someday take over the family business. I think getting a mare pregnant before he married her would hurt that reputation he's focused on, and Filthy is smart enough to know it.
Like you said, Spoiled seems like a status-hungry, less generous version of Rarity. We all remember who tried to ensnare whom at the Grand Galloping Gala, right? I think Prince Blueblood thought Rarity was what Spoiled Milk actually is. That said, just because Spoiled may have started out seeing Filthy as a ticket to wealth doesn't mean she hasn't fallen in love with him by the time they are engaged, I suspect that's what happened.
4267593 We also don't know for sure that they were farmers themselves. We know at least one of them was an orange, they might not have stayed on the farm for whatever reason. The main downside to this theory I can think of is it would make Apple Bloom's dream about being kicked out for having a non-apple cutie mark rather silly.