Selling Out: The Musical (aka SS&E Caves In and Considers Doing Patreon; Input Humbly Requested) · 12:32am Feb 20th, 2016
Oh Nietzsche It's Already Worse Than I Thought Save the Children Friggin' Hell
TL;DR Version: I, shortskirtsandexplosions, also known as Imploding Colon, Just Essay, Blue Harvest, Post, and other atrocities, am considering creating a Patreon account to shamelessly rob marsupials of their horse money help support my life, my wordcraft, and my overall coinpurse sanity.
I've made a straw poll for it here:
====>http://strawpoll.me/6864508<====
I would be ever so humbled if you voted one way or another and gave your opinions on the matter.
Now for the Long, Rambling, Pretentious Version:
Still with me?
Good.
Let us begin.
Exactly what does it mean to be a sell-out?
Stereotypically, it describes someone who's been doing stuff for free and suddenly makes a grab for money--be it from the audience he's always produced content for, or else from some form of public investment or advertising campaign. There's this stigma, I do believe, of a noticeable decrease in sincerity in the gesture. If someone proceeds to make stuff for moniez instead of just pure, unfettered reaction from a crowd that receives content as freely as the individual delivers it, then something has certifiably changed about said creator. Even if the quality of work is *better*, something is still missing. What that nebulously missing element is oftentimes gets further obscured by intense hatred/zealotry (both the same things, really) following the change itself. One thing's for certain, there simply is no going back.
Seen above: sell-outs who never went back... except for when they did years later by selling out again
However, being a "sell-out" is a bit more subjective, I think. More specifically, selling out means a compromise of one's own ideals and/or convictions for the sake of acquiring something.
And just how is this lemur considering himself a sell-out, you ask? Well, the "Donations Button" so cheekishly vomited onto the top of my current user page should be a hint.
An Example of a "Cheekish" Sell(Out)
Over the years I've spent doing this horsewordsmithery thang, I've considered it lame... neigh... hypocritical to ask for any sort of monetary reward in relation to the poni poni poni lit-writ I've commit(ted). This philosophy has extended to Fanfiction as a whole. I mean... why should anyone on the Internet--no matter how basementchildish--ever think it would be a GOOD idea to earn even a tiny bit of money on stuff based after another person's trademark ideas? I've seen other authors do it. Publically, perhaps, but mostly privately, I've legitimately scoffed at it. After all, this lemur needs to show that he's cut from a finer cloth. This lemur has done l33t stuff, after all... like... that softcore clop fic about Rainbow Dash getting hiccups... or that one where the world ends and yet it never does.
Okay, so maybe I've not done much quality stuff to be proud of. However, aside from the occasional manic blargh or podcast, I've predominantly stuck to being a mysterious name with no face who speaks through horse words and horse words alone. And, despite all of the kaizo plot devices, grammatical errors, and feature bait malarkey, I've still managed to hammer out a ton of epics accumulate 5k+ followers through what appears to be a decent amount of respect from the marsupial alumni. And even God would have to admit that's just too sweet.
Dammit, Outsiders! Go back to Atlanta already! This is a super serious blog!
Anyways, here's the first of many excuses:
Am I really "selling out" if I have no intention of compromising what I do and how I carry myself as a writer?
In other words, I have no intention of writing any less. I'm not going to hide any stories from anyone. I'm certainly not going to withhold stories from the marsupial alumni.
You see, during the last few years, as I got reacquainted with my own hypocrisy, this thing rose up from the ashes of digital spaghetti called Patreon. It wasn't around back in the days of making self-fappery SS&E threads on ponychan. However, it exists now, and it provides many artists--both "amateur" and "professionally established" alike--the means by which they can indulge their audience with the opportunity to indulge in them. Basically, this meant that people would be tossing pennies at the creators simply because they're creators. And that's a nifty thing. Kind of an ancient thing, if you think about it.
"Just ten drachmas a century! That's all we ask!"
Do creators of literature--original or derivative--deserve to be rewarded solely by the merit or entertainment-factor of their works alone? We could ramble about that until society collapses and we're all doing the olympics naked again, but that's not the point here.
The point is, I've been looking around and I notice that several other authors are doing this Patreon thingy left and right with no problem and all I can ask is...
...why not Lemurberg?
Meme Confirmed for Patreon Brawl
Do I need money?
Well, who doesn't, really?
There's no sense in lying. I'm in a well-to-do spot in my life. I'm not being thrown out the door. I'm not in need of some all-important medical procedure. I'm employed (even if barely). Long story short, there's no horribad situation to even warrant a sympathy-grab here. If we wanna be objectively honest about things in general, then... sure... finances aren't going as swimmingly for me this year as they were last year or the year before that. But I only have myself to blame in that regards. Simply put, a second source of income--even if tiny--could make me bite my nails considerably less during the 2.5 times a month that my heart takes the same plunge as my wallet.
Do I deserve money?
F'naaaa... this is where I suck as a salesman (read above: "barely employed" for a reason). My horsewords simply aren't the best. If Fimfic became omnipotent overnight and dished out a lump sum of Franklins to everyone on this site by the order they deserved it, I would be far closer to the bottom due to my... meh-a-ble quality.
But, for what it's worth, I do write a bunch of stuff. I also seem to have a community or two built around my horse dribble. From all of the comments, compliments, fan arts, songs, comics, and reactionary fics I've received over the last few years (not to mention the awesome friends and acquaintances that I've made), it would seem as if there's some substantial appreciation of my literature. Perhaps it's a quantity-over-quality thing. Perhaps it's just that people have nothing better to do than pat the back of a hairy basement child.
Or, perhaps, there's the potential that there are marsupials out there who genuinely look forward to my work. Some of them (as confessed to me) in fact seek ways to show their thanks, and I wouldn't mind showing them my own gratitude in return. And places like Patreon provide the means by which this sort of appreciation can be facilitated, with the ultimate result being that I can and will produce more content after being spurred on.
"But what I... (sniff)... really want from you guys... (sniff)... is a bloody oscarrrrrr!" (sobs)
But let's not get too poetic here...
As someone very wise has more than once reminded me, in the end Patreon is nothing more than a glorified donations button. I mean, think about it. It's asking contributors to freely and willingly give funds to someone. And for what in return? Horsewords? I'm always writing horsewords. Why should any marsupial pay tomorrow for something they got yesterday for free.
Well, let's be clear of one thing. I'm going to be writing horsewords continually regardless of whether or not I actually make Patreon happen. Imploding Colon will still have the Ever East Horsing. Just Essay will still have the depression simulator that is "Appledashery." Blue Harvest will still find ways to throw together adorafuzzy shipfics. And SS&E? Pffft... he'll bounce back. In fact, I still have several epic ideas floating around in my head. And being able to write as I've always been doing... as I've enjoyed doing--but now with the possibility of actually getting golden bits in the process... well... it probably doesn't take a squirrel's brain to realize that can only promote more content and swifter words in the future.
Granted, he only counts in nuts so that's probably a bad example...
If I do go through with this, though, mark my words: there will be no paywall. In other words, there would be no "holding back" of literature or "exclusive looks" that only "paying contributors" would be allowed to see. The idea here is not to refuse work, but to promote the joyous distribution of more work. Doing the Paywall thing makes sense in general, but not in my case... since I'm constantly producing shiet all the time and have no intention of stopping anytime soon. Even if I wanted to do a Paywall thingy, it's mother-flippin' prohibited on this site.
Instead, it only makes sense to try and come up with a rewards system so that I am positively reinforcing the potential of contributions. And that's where we come to the topic of the fic that's been tagged to this blargh.
Some of you may have noticed this today:
While this might appear to be yet another kaizo assortment of crack!fics, there's actually a far more nefarious relevant purpose behind it. A few weeks ago, I got the Noble J00rists together and I asked them to create some story prompts for me... more specifically mini-fic ideas. Things I could tackle in less than 2k words. In the end, I got nearly 30 scene prompts to work on.
Aaaaaaaaaaand since then, I've only managed to do about eight of them.
BUT--!
This is still a good thing. Taking it from a healthy perspective, this shows about how much I can tackle on a monthly basis while writing/working/princessing on the side.
How much of what, you ask? Well, this whole thing is the potential start of a Patreon rewards campaign, and the Noble Jury was my experimental beginning. Essentially, it's my plan to offer mini-fic writings for a certain dollar level of Patreon contributors. That way, some marsupials would get something worth their while in addition to the regular horse drivel. I'd likely limit it to maybe ten to fifteen recipients a month. Then, if I find that I'm able, I'll work up from there. But it's a humble start... or a humble idea for a start, if nothing else. But just what would such a reward be worth? $5 per request? $7? $10? I'm not the expert of these things, which is one reason why I've made this blargh.
I've planned to blog about this for months now. I've lost sleep over it. As early as first quarter 2015, this was a thing I contemplated... but I couldn't build up the nerve to bring it to the fimfic light. Mostly because it felt like a complete one-eighty from my public philosophy of fanficcing. Additionally because... well... there's nothing all that flattering about being a sell-out, is there?
BrrrrBrbrrrbrbrbrrrr...
Please do forgive the rambling and pretentious nature of this blargh. I've been in more than one fandom. I've existed on the Internet for a long time. I've seen what happens to quasi-respected personas who decide it's in their best interest to create a money funnel between themselves and their audience and so many of them crash and burn. Or--even worse--they carry on, but with the rest of the digital universe despising them behind their back. And that's not something I want to go through... unless, of course, the Internet already secretly hates me enough as it is.
So, for the sake of protecting whatever image I may have left to savor, I humbly ask for your input. Would doing a Patreon be a good idea? Is it something that's deserved, or silly at best? Would it make me lose respect in your eyes? Would you guys like me any less if I pursued it? Should I just leave well enough alone and continue with horse words as I already have been?
I've made a poll for this here:
====>http://strawpoll.me/6864508<===
That should hopefully simplify things, although I would absolutely love to hear from your own words an opinion on the matter, no matter how brief.
But please understand: This is not a request for you to go "Oh, SS&E-senpai, I would totalllllllllllly give money to you!" Or any of that nonsense. I would very much like to know if you think it's a good idea or not.
If you don't think it's a good idea, please elaborate so I'll be all the wiser.
If you do think it's a good idea, feel free to elaborate as well, but this is not me asking for "hands raised" of potential contributors. Let's pretend as if I'm not going to make a Patreon at all and just take the concept at an abstract glance, because the last thing I wanna do here is make a move that might shove SS&E beneath the dirt.
And while we're at it, I'll throw at your faceballs a list of things I'll aim to do if indeed I do decide to go forward with it.
Behold! Shamelessness In Its Natural Habitat!
-Monthly MiniFic rewards for Contributors: I already elaborated on this with the Lemurific Box. The idea is that, assuming I get a decent amount of patrons, I'd offer up prompt-fic-commissions to those within a specific dollar amount. What that dollar amount should be? I'm also up for suggestions with that as well. If you take a look at the fic, you'll see examples of what everyone would be getting at the same flat rate. My tentative plan is to promise 1500 words per contributor per month (limited to a certain number of slots, say 10 for example). This is a 1500 word *minimum*, cuz we all know that I tend to go overboard with diction and word count. I just don't see it right doing multiple-tiers of "minifics" considering the fact that I might go over with the lower tiers. Meh. So, basically, a patron who makes a slot would request for their contribution and I would deliver by month's end. The commissioned "scene" would be public, meaning for everyone on Fimfic to see, just like the chapters of the Lemurific Box so far. That's so we avoid the whole "paywall" blockage shiet. Also, there'd be no Rated M stuff or clop--but that's details for another blog, assuming I do indeed go through with this.
-A Return of the State of the Lemur Blogs: I'm not sure if anyone really really liked these, but part of me enjoyed them. I just burned myself out trying to find relevant stuff to ramble about every month. Also, I'm... not always a happy person, so it's tough trying to work up the energy for blog!speak. So, my potential solution is to post them every two weeks. Or perhaps just three times a month. Once at the beginning, another in the middle, and a third towards the end. With a Patreon, I'd have stuff to talk about more consistently, and plenty of people to thank. So, a consistent blog system seems like a good (and fun) idea to me.
-A "Thank You" List of Contributors' Names on SS&E's User Page: And Hell, on Imploding Colon's and Just Essay's pages as well. I mean, why not? This might seem like a very trivial "reward," but it seems necessary. Plus, I could maybe come up with a way to make it niftier for the patrons themselves. Like... I could quote each of them beneath their name, allow for custom fic/art links, that sort of a thing. A list of shout-outs for where credit's due, y'know?
-Filling Marsupials In On Fic Plans: This is more or less connected with the "State of the Lemur" part. I've often prided myself with being relatively secretive about both the fics and the upload dates of SS&E stories. But, if you would all prefer, I could attempt a change of pace and start giving ideas for future fics that I plan to work on. I know that I've done stuff like this before in the past (with great tragedy and failure). But this would be less tongue-and-cheek and more serious, as a means to both spur myself into tackling longer-form literature while simultaneously showing marsupials where there contributions are going. Perhaps it means that SS&E will be a bit more transparent, but... who cares at this point, f'naa?
-A General Increase In Communication/Interaction: Here is where I'd need the most help. Anyone who knows me (or pretends to know "me") understands that I'm a lazy, antisocial asshole who almost never responds to comments, PMs, User Page statements, etc. Seems like most brony writers worth anything in this realm of horsefame get there by... y'know... being decent human beings and reaching out to others. So if you all have any suggestions on how I can make things more personable and entertaining for the marsupial alumni, I'm all eyeballs. The past has proven that I can read and can review other lemurs' stuff, if only at a snail's pace. But maybe others can choose that pace for me so I can deliver during the monthly blarghs? Just a thought.
-Other Stuff That Smarter Bronies Can Think Up: If you have ideas for what you think you'd like to see... things you want to have written (:cough:EOPDOESN'TCOUNT:cough:)... rewards that you feel should be handed out, then toss a note or two up. I'm bringing this up to everyone because, if I go forward with this, I want it to be a transition that everyone can approve of and enjoy. Yes, I know that sounds pretentious. But who did you think was writing this blargh?
Whelp...
There you have it. Something I've been meaning to get off my chest for a long... long time now. Knowing my luck, it's probably too late to make much of a difference, but that's just my own fault.
Bronyism, SS&E, Noble Jury, and the whole horsewriting experience is quite literally the most significant thing to happen to me. For five silly years, I've written like I've never written before... with a consistency that's unmatched, day by day, hour by hour. Asking for money is selfish; there's no way around that. But it seems as though we're living in a day and age where selfishness is strangely forgiven, so long as it encourages the distribution and sharing of ideas, art, and good spirit. And while I doubt a legitimate heart to hold any one of those, I like to think my literary kerflufflage speaks differently.
I thank you very kindly for your time and attention. Sorry for getting super pretentious and borderline mushy at parts. Understand that no matter what course I take, y'all have already given me far more than I deserve, and I'm a blessed organism because of it.
With hair,
-SS&E
The last time someone sold out, they bought an orchestra:
Totally worth it.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with giving fans the opportunity to support their artist. Heck, people have been opening Patreons for less, and you've given more than enough to warrant a request for financial aid. You already know the potential pitfalls that comes when compromising and withdrawing content, so there's no need to get into that. So what astounds me is that it took you 108 stories before finally coming up with this.
You have my support, and will gladly pledge a dollar or two it goes live.
Am I allowed to touch, or is that only allowed in the champagne room?
Unrelated question: how much for an hour in the champagne room?
I find it hard to call a donation button with no paywall selling out...
There was a twitch streamer (for World of Tanks) that I was subscribed to for a long time since I watched his stream nearly every day. I looked at it as a thank you for hours of entertainment. To me, your patreon looks like much the same thing.
I have a motto when it comes to things like this. On subjects that tend to be more subjective instead of objective, and that would be. "Whatever floats your boat, as long as no one gets hurt in the process." If you feel that a patreon would benefit you, and your readers, than go right ahead. Personally I hate the idea of having others freely give money to me, because it just makes me feel like a douche. Could be due to the way I was raised, but whatevz.
It is a good idea - if you go through with this - to have benefits for those who actually give money to you so generously. Sure it seems a bit selfish to expect something in return from what is essentially another form of charity, but it does add to the context to have a Patreon account set up. Even if it's something light, it's better than nothing. If possible, set a limit to the amount of money a person can give you. If someone gives a bookoo bucks for something little in return, that wouldn't seem very right now would it?
If it was me in your situation, I wouldn't even consider the idea, again me personally. My philosophy being similar to yours, but maybe slightly different. In the end, though, it's up to you man. Do whatever is gonna lesson the grievances on your heart; what would the point of all this be if you just croaked on us, after all?
I strongly support this idea, not just because I really really love reading the words you put on the internet and think that you deserve some $$$ in return, but I also very much love what I as a reader could hope to get out of it. More words in the form of minifics, fic ideas, etcetera? The minifics you've done so far are hilarious and more would just be wonderful. And I, as a reader who's barely said more than five words directly to you, do not know you, but from religiously reading your blogs and listening to your podcast appearances and
stalkingwatching you talk on the Noble Jury, I think you are utterly hilarious and I love reading State of the Lemur blogs, your replies to people's questions, even your fic ideas that never come to fruition.If these ideas are things you're willing and able to do, and if you're able to accept the 'selling out' that Patreon technically means (though I don't think that would end up being a bad thing), then I would friggin' love it if you do 'em. You're right—there is definitely some appeal in the mysterious persona of SS&E and related accounts (which are even more mysterious!) but when you do end up making blog posts and replying to people, I think it's wonderful and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
As for things I want you to write? Hell, I like most of the zany ideas you dredge up from wherever you dredge them up from, but in particular I'd love to see (based on your descriptions): Bestial, Turn, more SunsetSparkles, and the Austraeoh Silmarillion thing. But seriously—please just keep pouring horsewords into my brain.
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As my child has said, this is, indeed, "too sweet."
God approves of your actions. You feed the masses, and it is only fitting that you be fed in return. Be blessed, my child.
~God~
I'd figured out Implodng Colon and Just Essay by the writing style but I don't think I've run into the others.
Anyway, I look for something you've written when I need a jumpstart before I write, so it would be silly if I didn't support you. Plus I'm one of those marsupials that really wants to. It's a great way to say thanks, and to support a cause you love. I say go for it.
Since you asked... my personal feelings on the matter have always been that I don't support the exchange of money for fanfiction. This is less a "it's mean to Hasbro" thing and more because fanfiction is currently a gray area legally, and if Hasbro noticed people making surprising amounts of money at it they could C&D the site as a whole, which is bad news for everyone. To me, it's a matter of not rocking the boat. (Or poking the dragon...)
That being said, I don't bring this up unless people ask me.
I'll also note that I do have a patreon myself, I've just tied it to my blog. I'll happily sell people all the non-pony words they want, or words commenting on ponies. (And I will enter contests with cash prizes, but due to the uncertian nature there I don't really consider it monetizing pony fic.) I'm very, very poor, so I've been tempted to try to sell pony words but I consider the blog a good compromise. If I had the tech, I'd probably do some kind of podcast as well.
So, to sum up, I won't judge (much) if you go for it, but personally I would (and do) look for other ways to give people something less copyright-y and make a few bucks.
Eh, go for it. If people want to throw money at you for whatever reason, let them.
I very much support this. And I like the ideas you will implement if you open the patreon.
Nothing wrong with accepting donations (I would probably chip in.) As for being a sell-out... maybe if you denied access to someone who previously had it, but otherwise definitely not. I personally love the model where someone puts out free content enjoyed by many and supported by a small subset of that group. Everyone's interests are well served.
I personally have no interest in patron benefits, I just want to support what you're already doing. But if you do list subscriber names please respect the checkbox that makes it so I don't show up in your public patron list. One guy I donate to reads off names, and got all confused because the patron list that shows up publicly is different from the one only he can see. He thought it was a bug and just read off all the names. I actually didn't mind in that case, but I absolutely do not want my real name associated with anything pony. I am the only person with my name so anywhere it is listed on the internet comes up on the first page of Google.
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That's not what I sound like. I don't sound like that. >:T
I don't think there's anything selfish about allowing people a way to give you money that they feel is fair compensation for the benefits you provide. "A worker is worthy of his wages" and all that. You put in a lot of work. We get a lot of enjoyment out of it.
Honestly, I think the world would be better off if all art and music worked that way.
I made this some time ago {might've put it on your userpage-comments, I don't remember}, but:
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Think that makes my opinion clear. :3
If you need money, you need money.
No one will fault you if you ask for it.
...I just wish I had money to give...
~Skeeter The Lurker
Quick question before I vote...
What means the "F'naaa"?
From what I have been able to piece together you are most certainly NOT a sell out. No one HAS to give up money like you said, and apart from receiving funds you are not changing anything. Just think of this as a way of future proofing, if something bad does happen you are not in immediate trouble due to financial and thus don't have to worry about whether or not you will be able to continue.
However modest you may be, I truly believe you deserve way more than you give yourself credit for. It could be said that you are not the best writer on fimfic. You are, however, the most prolific, with millions of words written, hundreds of stories, and the droves of people flocking to your fics.
The difference is choice. I have not, nor will I ever pay for fanfiction. That being said, I have no issue with donating money to curators of entertainment. People would have the ability to choose whether they want to give you money or not, especially with the system you are talking about. They wouldn't feel pressured to buy anything, or obligated to donate. They would do so under their own pretenses.
Receiving said money doesn't make one a sell out. Everyone wants money. Don't see it as exchanging money for words. It's more of being tipped for great service
As for the rewards, the page of donators sounds decent, and the mini-fics are interesting. Filling donators in with future concepts sounds unmanageable. Whatever tiers you do end up using, stick with it. Either way though, you have my support, and whats more, my money.
I've been quietly
stalkingreading your work since back in the /fic/ days, and the only thing that needs to be said is this: It's about time.You might enjoy self-deprecating humor as much as the next guy, but it shouldn't take a
riggedpoll just for us to prove that your work is something worth contributing to. Your definition of "sell-out" is just what I'd expect from someone who still thinks sapphiric is a real word, but just believe me when I say that asking for donations for something you've already done for free for like, a bajillion hours, is not a traitorous act in any sense, especially when you're promising ~actual content~ in return.Fimfiction helpfully points out that even less than half of your accumulated work on this site could keep someone entertained for 200 hours, and is about the length of 48 novels from published authors
who actually proofread. Sure, I "suppose" we could have "gone out" and "bought" 48 books and become "cultured" or something, but you know what they say, pony something pony pony. The least we could do is share a bit of the money you saved us.One last takeaway from this - while I do lurv the idea of more skirtsnanigans, I do worry about how drab monthly commissions from us uninformed masses might take its toll on the health of our collective literary lackey, especially if it's the same ten marsupials each month. Alternative solution: Everyone who makes a contribution of $X (that's to be determined X, not roman numeral X) gets to drop an idea off in the Lemurific box, and the fuzzy owner of the box gets to pick five or ten of his favorites to write about. That way, everyone except the one guy who keeps submitting the same terrible idea gets a pitch each month, and a certain someone isn't stuck writing 9 Pinkie Pie fics the night before his self-imposed deadline.
I don't know if you made this poll to humblebrag or if you actually thought you'd receive anything but overwhelming support for this idea, but please. Every dollar that will be parted from our Disney World funds just so some other lemur can buy more merch the next time he goes will be well earned. All he had to do was ask.
Nothing wrong with wanting to be paid for your creative work, even if you do this for fun. Go for it.
You go ahead. I wish I could say the same: I had to stop (well, delay) writing because I ran out of money and had to get working on other things even to have a pretense of survival. I, too, have written more than a million words of pone, but for nothing.
Some get, some don't. I think it's pretty likely that you could at least buy some lemur food off Patreon, and I'm in a position to know how nice that would be. I say go for it. I've not noticed you writing anything unduly shocking, and the worst that might happen is someone tells you to stop doing that. Seems like you're an ideal candidate for what Patreon is. Wish I was.
Two points:
1) You've said yourself that you have no plans to change what you do, regardless of whether or not people throw money at the screen. So long as that doesn't change, you're fine in my book.
2) You're not holding your works to ransom, not forcing anyone to pay for this stuff. It's an opportunity for people who appreciate what you do to support you.
The onus is on them, not you. If they want to help, they can, and if they don't, or can't, they won't. You'll just give them the choice.
So yeah, you've got my full support, here. Go for it dude.
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If you're not changing the way you work and not withholding anything you'd publish anyways behind a paywall, go for it.
Excuse me if I procrastinate a while by babbling out my thoughts on the matter...
So, I watch a couple of Twitch streamers, one of whom persisted in not having a donation button of any kind for a long time, and one who tried to get rid of his. After much requesting and protest, they both eventually seemed to come to the same general conclusion: that while they might not personally feel like they were doing enough (especially for any one viewer) to warrant donations, and in no way wanted it to be the focus of their streams or a prime motivator, it's not just about how they feel, but about how the donators feel. It's an additional avenue of feedback for those who choose to make use of it.
The internet is a strange medium, far removed from the 'normal' human experience of closeness, and yet we persist in trying to form strong communities and attachments. A Twitch streamer may never know when their upbeat attitude, conversation carrying, or just their presence alone might have helped someone through a rough day or given them a laugh when they needed it. And an author, even of silly horsewords, may never know when they've done something for a reader, been an important part of their life in some way.
A donation/patronage system can give people--whether or not they are comfortable expressing themselves in other ways--a tangible method of feeling like they've supported something that they enjoy, that has some meaning to them. A part of community is breaking bread, but we can't generally share a meal or even buy a beer for someone on the internet. Ponying up a few bits can be an analogous thing, and can provide some of the same warm fuzzies.
Psh, asking for donations isn't selling out. You're one of the last authors I'm still following and I've gotten endless hours of enjoyment from your fics.
If I can afford it, I'd be more than happy to pitch in some. You've more than earned it.
I'd totally consider submitting a prompt, too.
I say go for it. Considering how consistently you write, and how much you write, and how large and involved your reader base is, I think most people would agree you've earned it. And in the end, you're giving people a choice. If people don't want to donate, they don't have to, and they aren't really missing out on anything content-wise. But those who do want to will now have the opportunity to give a little something back. Seems like a win-win to me.
Massive quantities of unpaid words were defenestrated through the interweb from your face well before pon, it's obvious that you were never in it for the funds. I think I can spare a farthing for Sedna maintenance.
Might be smart to come up with something original to place up on the tron page though, so it's more legally legit. I'd certainly pay to follow a daily serial set in an original setting, as you already pull those off pretty well.
"My horsewords simply aren't the best." Well that's your subjective opinion. Or maybe your objective opinion, but I hate the word objective. My subjective opinion is that yours are the best. Is it a quantity over quality thing? To be fair, I only have two of your stories in my top fifteen favorites (though I often wonder if Background Pony should be in there as well). But so many more of my favorite stories are by you than anyone else. On my favorite fan fiction list, which is at about 70 atm, 16 of those stories are from you. I don't think anyone else has more than 3. If they do, it's either ColdinGardez or MythrilMoth, my other two favorites. I think what it comes down to is that you write a variety of types of stories well (Background Pony, Apple Cider Doughnuts (my favorite) and Sunset Shimmy come to mind), but who you are shines through in all of them. (Which is why I also like ColdinGardez.)
Really, not only do I have money to spare, but I like and care about you. Your blogs, State of the Lemur included, and also some Ponky stuff oddly enough (Space is a Waste might be my favorite song period) have gotten me all attached. Maybe it's cause you're just so gosh darned humble that I want to smack you and say "You're awesome, Skirts-Senpaii!" That's why I give money to Digibro and TheMysteriousMrEnter, because I care about them. The exception is Jordan Underneath, who just makes super high quality shit.
In short...
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Do I think it's a good idea? No one will give money who doesn't want to give money, and I assume you'll be happier with more money, so yes.
I would absolutely throw a few dollars your way every month. When patreon came out and became popular I specifically considered who I would ever support, and you, gardez, and someone else who used to write were the three I knew I would support without hesitation. I'm also glad that none of the reward ideas would really affect your work. (How can you name a character after ponygrad anyway?). You agonize enough over your output and choice in work and no one wants to make that more stressful for you. The magic of your epics and their twists and never knowing if you're going to come out with an adventure, drama, romance, horror, or kaizo fic is what makes you so popular. You recognize that and patreon would not put that in jeopardy.
You're also the only ponyfic author who after I ask "how the hell do you write so much" is not followed up a few months later about how his life, job, or health is falling apart. ("Oh his life is falling apart, that's why he has so much time"). That is a good thing. Patreon is not for the desperate. If you do go ahead with it, know that you're doing it the right way.
Also, is anyone else super curious to know what his $/month number is going to be?
You seem like an upstanding fellow. If you're giving them the option to pay rather than saying 'pay or no horse words' then that's fine. Go for it man, imo you deserve to get some compensation for the things you do, even if you think the things you do aren't that great.
Also, God is a duck.
Sorry for not being of much use with this Shorts.. due to things like Apple etc, I will not have a credit card, because the govt demands backdoors which criminals can then haul off with, after all, govts cant afford to spend on internal security to gurentee the impossible of being clean in house at all times, and noone else will use a method that workable. Have you seen how many reports there are of certain unaccepted postal workers slicing cards for cash and others?
If you are going to busk on the street corner, you cant complain when people supply you with a drink, a warm meal, a cap and a spare dog. To bring even more random and totally untracable donations in.
Speaking as someone who did for just one year what you've been doing since you started Austraeoh--continuous daily updates of a truly massive story--quite frankly, you deserve to be patronized for your tireless efforts to pump out hundreds of thousands of horse words. I have personally experienced the sheer hellish strain a daily update story of hundreds of thousands of words can induce on a writer, and anyone INSANE ENOUGH to do it as long as you have deserves to see a little appreciation in the "this can buy me a few games/DVDs" sense.
I myself have considered setting up a Patreon, and might in fact do so one of these days--god knows everybody ELSE is. Considering the sheer mass of your following across your various aliases and the obscene amount of output you generate...
You should absolutely go for it.
Agggh, those are hard questions. For me at least. My inner fanboy says, "Oh, God, YES! Shut up and take my money!" But my stupid contrary logic based brain says no. Paraphrasing what's been said, You've always been in this because you enjoyed doing it, never expecting a reward for it, or even a following. Probably still blows your mind why we're all still here, from the sound of it. Hell, it blows mine just considering paying. Because I've never felt that people should be payed for a doing a hobby they already enjoy, commissions and deals notwithstanding. The reason for that is the danger of the artist, writer, musician, or what have you, losing themselves to the pull of money and focusing more on what sells than what they enjoy and what their fans fell for in the first place. And I want to believe that you're immune to that pull, or that you're better in some way than other wordsmiths that have fallen into that rut. But I can't shake the overwhelming fear that you might not be. That this might be a bad idea.
Make no mistake, I wouldn't lose respect or think poorly of you for doing it, Skirts. Because as I've said before, you are legitimately the first person I've thought of supporting through a Patreon, ever. If I've ever felt anyone ever deserved it, or should do it, it's you. For some reason. Probably the drink talking. (lol,JK) Nah, most likely it's because I got hooked on your extreme wordiness and prose, in tandem with some of the strange yet charming ideas I've seen thrown into your fiction. Even if said ideas creep me right the hell out sometimes. (O.o.c., cough cough.)But I digress.
I guess what I'm trying to say in all this is that I do feel like you should do a patreon, but I don't thinkyou should. Which is admittedly arbitrary and confusing. So I'll put it this way: Go for it, but be cautious. And never, ever, ever let yourself fall into the trap of writing just for the money.
A Patreon is by no means a bad idea. It's probably even a good one, as long as you don't overwork yourself with the rewards system somehow.
That being said, can't really help much on the rewards system - most of that is going to be determined by what you can do in addition to what you're already doing. The name list is definitely good, though. Could do like, $1 = name, $2 = name + picture, $3 = Name + picture + link or something like that, and then worry about whatever else.
Let the people feed the lemur so he can fart more horsewords.
I wish I could put into words how much your stories mean to me. I'm not as articulate as you, though, and no matter what I write, I always find myself wondering if you could've found a better way to say it.
Of every person I've ever known, you have had the most significant impact on my life. You gave me an escape from a horrible situation. You made me feel when I'd forgotten how. Your stories were funny, lonely, sad, uplifting, heartbreaking, and everything in between.
You made me want to be heard again. You made me want to discover myself. You made me want to do a little better every day. And then one day, I woke up and found that a little better was good enough.
I can never repay you for everything you taught me, for everything you did for me. And you'll never truly know just how much that was.
You've given us all so much, whether or not you always see it. The least we can do is give back.
Here is my opinion if you care about it. Without trying to get to specific or personal, I beleive I've mentioned before I'm an aspiring filmmaker who recently tasted a bit if success (thank god because I've been working for YEARS). I'm heavily embarrased how much I had to "sell out" to get anywhere. But that's how it works. Some of my favorite directors and cinematographers sold out more than even I can comprehend to get a start. Not sure if the selling out to get your foot in the door applies to you since I have no idea what youre doing in the real world. But the point is I think it's necessary to be great. Personally, I enjoy your art more than any other artist I can think of. And as someone whose trying to make it in a situation where I would be paid for my art, it would be hypocritical of me to not pay you for yours. I can't promise anything, but I will say my level of respect for you will not be diminished in the slightest, and hopefully as my situation improves, I'll pay for what I can.
Skirts, this is in no way selling out. Selling out would be going
"As from now, all my works will Patreon only stories, sponsored by your friends at Hasbro! Buy their toys, and get 1 free SSE story with every purchase!"
But seriously, this is in no way different to someone who is succesful on Twitch.tv deciding to start offering paid subs, or people putting buttons for donations on their soundcloud, because they realise "holy shit, people actually want to pay for this mediocre detritus I make? Maybe its not actually the pile of garbage I see it as. "
Those who donate see this as some way to thank the content creator for content which they are in no way under any obligation except their own to produce. If I enjoy someone's work, why shouldn't they deserve gratitude in the form of my monthly support.
You mean the quasi-respected personas who cut off the benefits they extend to non backers? Thats why so many have failed, they see "hey, I'm making a killing on this patreon gig! What if I forced all my fans to do it to get the full [XYZ] experience?" Instead of the smart thing of giving donators extra benefits, they start to paywall non-donators out of what was previously the full experience. Now you've explicitly said no account would be ceasing horsewords to non patreons, so this is a complete non-issue for your situation.
And if you still worry about the idea of taking money, imagine it as the internet version of busking on the corner for change. Can't exactly call that guy with a busted up guitar "selling out" can you? But man, he can play that guitar like he was Eric Clapton or Stevie Ray Vaughan. So you dig out your coppers and your silvers, and you toss him some coins in that beat up 'ol guitar case of his. A week goes by, maybe two, maybe even a couple of months, and you're in the city again, when you see him playing. So you stop and listen to him play. Maybe you have a friend or two with you, and you decide to show them this guy who in different circumstances could be playing on MTV or where-ever it is stars make their break these days. But you really need to get to the cinema before that movie starts, so at the end of his next song, you dig up some loose change again at toss it in that same case. Maybe you even feel extra generous and drop a few bills in. Then one day you're feeling pretty blue. Its pouring with rain and everything has been going shitty for you today. But you turn onto the high street and your ears pick up that unmistakeable twang of the guitar. And its sad and its sweet and its beautiful and full of joy and regret and passion and a thousand other emotions all at the same time, and you feel the weight on your feet start to lighten. And maybe, just maybe, the rain seems that bit les heavy, and the troubles of day are not quite that bad after all. But you can't stop to listen to it, so you dig out you're wallet and drop a couple of dollars into the case. And he gives you an enigmatic smile, and you know he's just doing this for the joy he gets out of it, but people keep insisting on giving him money when he feels bad taking it, "why should he deserve it anymore than anyone else? What has he done?"; and you know he knows you've clicked that he feels bad for taking it. But it doesnt matter, because you're not giving him the money expecting or demanding anything from him, or out of sympathy, or viewing him as a charity case or a huckster or a sellout. Its the best way you have of thanking him for what he does, not out of necessity, but because he wants to share that feeling he gets when he plays with everybody else. So you give him that money, so that he can keep spreading that Joie de vivre he instills in you to as many other people as possible. And if they look down on him, assuming he holds himself unjustly on the level with a professional musician, or scorn his acceptance of money from others, then they are closing themselves off to what they could be experiencing if they weere more beautiful inside. But it doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks, because to you, he is worth every single cent of that money that you are giving him.
Or y'know, everything i just wrote could be hokum and the incomprehnsible spewings of a mind thats been awake for 80+ hours and frazzled by stress and anti-depression meds
One man's trash
You have this assumption that somehow your writing isn't worth much. Most people can't create for their life! Your imagination and output are up and over talented. Other gifted writers have said that they can only bow to what you've done. You can't take a piss without 10k words coming out. Story ideas are air to you. People paying you to breathe? You cross-dress themes and events with your inspirations, old and new, automatically, too often, and do it so well. People paying you to breathe?!
Why would anyone ever want to pay me to write? I do this because it’s slightly more poignant than dying and fills more time slots (although fewer shower drains) than masturbation.
I don't think it's just self deprecation. There's a sort of logical fallacy here. You take what you can do for granted to such a point that you are thoroughly desensitized to the value of your own output. Maybe you don't like where you are in life or how you look or something – I don't know, but those negative feelings diffuse into your opinion of your work, maybe accelerating this desensitization and allowing it to be masked in self deprecation. Bottom line is that they shouldn't.
Who cares?
The legalities of creativity are nonsense. Hasbro threw Lauren off the boat a while back and Hasbro is just as valid as few writers in a group on this site that have access to an animation studio. Trademark ideas? The cost of making the show good this generation is less than the predicted difference between profits now and if it weren't. It's almost impossible to be original these days unless you're packing heat from the frontier of knowledge. If the mathematicians and scientists of old had a patent on the use of their work like their spiritual successors do today...
Feedback
I don't think the minific prompt idea is a good thing. I don't think you should be constrained to finish and stress over something you don't want to do. I don't want you to have to deal with a pissed off idiot "customer" if things go bad. You shouldn't have to deal with that here. This isn't about selling out, it's about burning out.
Transparency is counterproductive
There's a bit of psychology on how making a goal transparent makes one feel like they've already achieved it, diminishing the motivation to do it in the first place. I think this is part of the reason why your itineraries didn't pan out too well. We get excited easily. Don't use it against us. Don't use it against you.
This ties into idea dept. It holds down improvement and kills your enjoyment of whatever your work is when it's done since it can never be as good as you envisioned it. It's procrastination and in the long run, it hurts you and you know that. Why feed into it?
Yes. For all that is pony, YEEESSS!!!
Nothing more needs to be said.
For ideas on rewards you can add to Patreon, how about beautifully formatted epub, mobi, and pdf files of any story you've written. You could use some of the initial funding from the first month to commission covers for your more popular stories if you think any of the covers aren't currently cutting it.
Do you hear that? Tick, tock, tick, tock. That's time a-wasting to set up your Patreon!!!!
hrrrmmm.... well, yeah its definitely a sellout. i usually don't like it when fanfic authors start up patreons, because they really aren't supposed to make money off the original creators' work. but, yknow... if you did start one, I think i would throw a couple bucks your way. I really enjoy your horsewords. it's kinda like Leo... give the man a *buysomeapples* oscar!
...also, its not like i start hating people who set up patreons. i just kinda say "huh. alrighty then." then move on
For me, I look at it like this.
You will do it anyway right? Whether someone will "donate" to you or not?
So why not let someone who have one of the elements in the show this fandom stand for do their thing for you?
I don't think there's much I could say that hasn't been said already. Basically, so long as you don't get really money-grabby (which I highly doubt you will), I'm all for it. I'll still be a student for a few years, so I'm not sure when I'll be able to actually donate, but that'll come in time.
I think you should go for it. After years of following you, I know better than suspecting your literary production (or yourself) will somehow change for worse.
Also you deserve all the marsupial money.
The Sub-Fandom speaks for itself.
I think that the majority of us agree that going forward with the idea of a donation patron is a good one, outside of any possible legality or burn out issues. I would gladly support any author that produces good content. I also would protest the idea that you're "selling out" by doing this as donations without paywall rewards are just that - donations. As for the specifics you're looking for feedback on:
Well, really, the value of such a 'reward' would have to be based on how long it would take you to write 1500 words and how much time that would take away from your normal schedule (time is money, and all that). From someone who's not a writer, for that kind of low word count, I'd suggest a dollar amount around $3-5 as reasonable.
It's neat to be able to get more insight into someone's thoughts on various subjects, so a return of these blogs would be good. It also goes along well with your plans to try to increase your communication / interaction with your followers. I would say that a once a month, or bi-monthly if you have the content, 'state of the lemur' post would be fine. Having too many posts leads to the same problem you had in the first place, a lack of content. If you wanted to do more posts, but that are about more general things, you could always set up a tumblr or the like.
Fully support this idea, and like what you have in mind for it. If you're looking to do reward tiers, you could have the lowest tier (like $1) being just a thank you with their name and higher tiers allowing for the custom name/content on the thank you page.
While I would love to see what kind of stories are coming down the pipe, I feel that this would quickly become a 'double edged sword' situation. On one hand, it promotes some great communication and interaction as followers get some neat info and perhaps help to influence the direction of future stories (like with your #100 story poll). On the flip side, giving people any information about what's coming means they're going to have expectations. Expectations lead to disappointment if a fic either doesn't pan out the way it was advertised, or never happens. I'd say that if you're going to go through with this, you would need to put a few warnings on your various ideas about the probability of them happening.
As someone who's antisocial as well, I really don't see anything 'wrong' with the way you're going about communicating with us right now. To me, your already going above and beyond with your blogs and other little bits of interaction. If you really want to increase your interaction beyond the ideas listed in this blog post then following through with responding to comments and PMs would be a good starting point. Reviewing other people's work is and can be neat, but from the way you write about it I get the sense that you have to force yourself to do it. However, if it is something you're willing to do, perhaps allow followers to suggest what fic you should read next? Within a certain word count limit, of course. If you were planning on a bi-monthly state of the lemur, perhaps one of those posts could be a review instead?
Off the top of my head, these could either be 'rewards' or just in general interaction increases:
-More AMAs
-Watch the dailies (or other stories) get written live via Google Docs or some kind of streaming service
I'd like to throw another vote in favor of seeing Austraeoh side stories become a thing.
3766124
I hadn't thought of this but this is something that I would love to see at least once in my measly life. And I know you've done it at least once, with Amethyst Star: Spider Slayer and all, so maybe it wouldn't be that much of a stretch? Maybe? Ehh?
I don't have much to say about whether or not you should do it. All I can say is that if I had the money, I would throw it at you.
Now, for the rewards. State of the Lemur "blaghs" were really nice, ummm... thingies to read, I enjoyed them. What I enjoyed even more were your reviews of the episodes/other horsewriters' stories. If you'll go with this Patreon thing, it would be pretty cool if those reviews were one of the rewards.