Can someone explain to me... · 4:16pm Jul 30th, 2015
...the appeal of the stories where the "author" tells his story of how he was transformed from a regular, average citizen into say... Groucho. And ended up in Equestria?
To me, as I've said before, it just reads like: "I wanna write human in Equestria/self-insert but I'm too boring as I am so I must simply get all the powers/abilities of some other character that is way cooler than I am without any effort whatsoever, and get to show how cool/deep/edgy I am in a world of ponies."
But, maybe I'm missing something. What is the appeal of seeing Goku be not Goku? Why read a HiE story where the human is usually not even human anymore? Why must Tom have the combined powers of Ranma, Kenshin and Akira while looking like Wonder Woman to visit Equestria? What other reasons are there for this sort of behavior in writing?
Please. Explain it to me.
Take it from someone who's writing one of those stories: We do it for teh lulz. At least I do.
I think its what remains of LOHAV and LOHAH, where humans gets powers from wizard dude/artifact thhey find and come to Equestria, and either act like dicks, or heroically. Anyway, imagine if they had the powers of Kenshin, DIO, Ichigo, and a Death Note?
3282227 Comedy value, that's reasonable. But is there any point to the story or is it really just lulz.
3282228 But that's the thing. I want to know why they need to have the powers to write this story. Just writing stuff for kicks is fine, but there must be a reason for what you're writing. Why do they need the powers? Why not have their characters learn new ones? Or discover that their transition gave them some new skills that are not ripped-off from another character?
3282231 Writing is just a hobby of mine, so there isn't any other reason for me. You'll have to ask the others for their reasons.
3282235 No idea. I mean, if you wish to put the badass Dio Brando or Kenshin Himura in Equestria, why not just do it? Kenshin would love it there, since its relatively peaceful. And Dio, especially when he's part 3's DIO, would stop time, kill or imprison Celestia, Luna and the Element Bearers, and then rule The World (Yes, that was intentional)
Because if 1000 people all circlejerk around a single genre of stories then add the crossover tag, they don't have to admit they are writing the worst OOC self inserts in existence.
3282243 That's the point. If you want to put Kenshin there, put Kenshin there. Not some dude from New York with his powers and abilities.
I wanna write one of me just in my beardly man's-man glory.
Because they wanna insert their lives into Horseland, but they don't want to be themselves because they know they're pathetic? No one knows for sure, not even the people who make these stories.
3282256 And at least make the guy Japanese, or Asian at the least, otherwise it'll look like, well, Cosplay. Plus, Kenshin as a protector of ponies, following the end of the manga, would be awesome. Though, doesn't Yakihiko have his sakabato though?
My guess?
To draw people in. I think you've written on crossovers being a shortcut to the feature box before. This is more of that.
"I like Elvis, wouldn't it be cool if Elvis met ponies? But Elvis is hard to write... What if it wasn't Elvis? I could say it's Elvis, describe his sweet looks and white, gem studded jumpsuit like it's Elvis' and still write the character however I want to. If people like Elvis they'll even upvote it just because I said it contained Elvis!"
I miss the days when I disagreed with the stuff you complained about... Honestly it's been quite some time since we've seen things differently, that's a bad sign.
3282253 has it exactly right.
I mean groups dedicated to upvoting shit fics have been banned so if you want to sneak something like this by you have to hope people will like your story because they liked a story with the same premise. Because let's face it, very few fics are both unique and actually good... So let's have a whole bunch that are neither... It's the Anon plague all over again.
Because some authors not only want to explore how they react when placed in an entirely new setting, but also if their very being changes, and they're forced to deal with being a new person in a new place. I'd expect some authors would do it as a sort of self character study, to make themselves think of what they would do in that situation. It also provides opportunities for situations that would not be possible as just a plain human. Everybody reading on this website is human, we know what humans are capable of, but given a story where the main character is not a human anymore, the possibilities are expanded and it leaves us open to be surprised.
Another thing is inserting a popular character is instantly relatable. People can already feel a connection going in to the story, which usually makes it more comfortable to read. And using a character that people already know removes a lot of hassle that goes into actually characterizing them, since the audience will probably have pre-existing knowledge of that character. Sure, if the author is just inserting their mind into the character's body that point is somewhat invalid, but the character still provides a springboard starting point.
...I got nothin.
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That's my issue here. They're not putting the character there, they're putting themselves or a regular human as another character, but without the powerful character's personality, in Equestria. Like I said below. If you're putting Kenshin in Equestria, make sure it's Kenshin.
Inserting their minds into another character just doesn't sit well with me.
3282288 Wouldn't you want to be a superhero?
3282289 I'd rather write how I earned/obtained my powers instead of just being Superman with my brain inside.
3282296 I feel like that's the reason authors mostly choose to put themselves in characters that already exist. It removes the need for a lot of development throughout the story and lets them focus on other things. One could see it as lazy writing, which is really what it is.
Or maybe the author just really likes a character and wants to be that character.
Probably the bandwagon.
It's likely due to feeling the need to be entertaining, and with self-inserts like you were talking about, they don't feel like a regular person would be entertaining. Maybe they try and write something normal and feel it's boring, maybe they just wanna write a crossover without the stigma of just writing a real crossover. I dunno.
Simply build a persona of a human you admire or think of. Think of all the cool.things you wanted to be as a child and make that the man or woman of your dreams. I've always wanted to be a soldier. I am one now, but I want to be something more powerful, more intelligent, and one that has an opportunity for greatness. The abilities you give him/her are only halted by your imagination. I personally like to build.my characters from the ground up. They have a starting kit, but it will eventually evolve. I hope this helps you.
3282331 Nope. It doesn't. You are actually describing what I would do. But if that's what you do, you're not literally using a pre-made character like Goku, Mewtwo, Master Chief, or any other like that and putting your personality instead of their own in them, and then basically pretending to be them. That's what I don't get. Why people do the thing with pre-made characters instead like you suggest, making their own.
For the record I'm writing two LoHAV style stories, neither a self-insert.
For me personally, it was because it let's you explore what somebody else would do with the powers of Character X.
Like those old 'What If?' or one-shot comics where some average slob gets the powers of Superman. Sure, many of us would like to think we'd be good guys and use, but...
I will freely admit that 9/10 of all Displaced stories are horrible and wastes all that potential, but there's noting by itself wrong about the central premise. The big problem is that those 9/10 don't even have a plot based around that premise, but starts and stops at the idea 'X in Equestria, with a really lazy reason why.'
Hell, just look at the premise of Captain Marvel/Shazam. Young kid get's the mystical powers of several Greek heroes, and transforms into a handsome adult to fight crime. And he's one, if not the mightiest hero in the entire DC universe...
Sounds exactly like something else, doesn't it?
It's just a LCD self insert fantasy thing. There isn't anything to it. And it's super lame.
For the writer, it's everything they wanted out of a crossover except they get to combine it with a power fantasy. It's just wank. They want to be a certain character because they think (s)he's cool, and they also want to go to Equestria. In these stories they get to do both.
For the readers, the appeal is in having no standards at all. If you're easily amused by lazy crossovers and are genuinely unable to tell the difference between good writing and bad, then it's a damn goldmine.
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That makes sense, but then why an average guy, instead of another established character that suddenly got those powers? Although I guess I can see the "average Joe with powers" exploration going on... then my question turns to: Why Equestria? There's barely any opposition there.
He always loses vs Superman anyway.
Besides, they usually have him having the mentality of a 10 year old, so the accumulated wisdom and etc, is diluted by not knowing anything of how the world really works.
The "displaced" genre of stories, I believe, stems from wish fulfillment. Dress up as Batman then end up in Equestria as Batman. I think Fimfiction started to get a bunch of very young viewers involved in our community and that is where they come from. That is my belief anyway, I can't prove it.
So, what does it come down to? A bunch of very young bronies who are bored with themselves and wish to be character XXXX in Equestria.
I really hope the trend dies soon as I'm getting tired of these. First it was Sunset, then this... what is next? I miss the old trends, dragon story OC's or regular HIE stuff. Oh well. I'll stick to the old ways until I'm dead. Scoot-a-orphan anyone?
I love Scoot-a-orphan so you all can bite me.
People enjoy silly things. It's the reason the feature box is so full of nonsense.
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Tropic Thunder Syndrome.
You more or less nailed it here with the primary reason. Wish fulfillment and power fantasy are the most common reasons. Author X wants to write a self insert where he has all the powers of Sephiroth and how awesome he would become if only he had those powers, but the best fiction community he knows is fimfiction. So he had better find a way to mix ponies in somehow. These are perhaps the most obnoxious to read, because you feel like you are reading the author's tailored masturbatory material.
Another reason of course is that an author wants to write a story about a certain character in Equestria, let us say Wolverine for this example, but doesn't feel confident enough in their writing skills to think they can get down the 'voice' of Wolverine. Maybe because they like the character and power set, but haven't read every comic about him and will inevitably have ooc moments. If they are using a technically original character they don't have to worry about being called on that. Sort of a 'safe option' that inevitably backfires by making the story too 'busy.'
Yet another reason is the author wants to write a HiE story, but wants the human to be physically competitive in a world of super-strong, flying, magical ponies and dragons and so on. It is the same reason where you often see a HiE have magic immunity or some other advantage, only the 'fictional character powerset' is a lot more gimmicky. This is a sister reason to many who write a self insert where MLP actually exists as a show in the world the character comes from. Only then, the advantage the character has is meta knowledge of the world.
Some authors just want to explore the old 'visit a mysterious magic shop and get more than you bargained for when you find yourself transformed' trope... and also ponies.
And lastly with the flood of such stories, some authors want to do it to prove they can write a good story out of a bad idea. Sort of like when Jim Butcher was challenged to do so and wrote the Codex Alera on a bet.
Those are the reasons that come to mind at least.
The only story of this type that I enjoyed at all was Horse Feathers, and that author is known for deliberately taking things that sound like really bad story ideas and making them kind of work. Though that one is not a self insert, just a guy about twice the author's age with the Harry Dresden package.
Only in that story, it is framed as a sort of crash course in real magic, paired with a trial by fire to determine whether the mage who sent him to Equestria wants to take the main character on as his magic student. As such, the Dresden package he gets doesn't conform exactly to the magical physics in the Dresdenverse, it is a recreation of Harry's abilities using 'real' magic.
Edit: 3282337 Oh, speak of the devil, and he will comment.
I've seen several of those, and I don't understand how someone can so shamelessly do the exact same thing as everyone else, some even going as far as saying "Stop me if you've heard this before."
I will stop you. With a chair. To the face.
I'd love to explain it to you, D. Can I call you D? But that would require me to understand why people write such stupid stories myself. Although if you do ever figure it out feel free to let me know.
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What really baffles me isn't why they do it - it's goofy and uncreative, sure, but it's a power fantasy thing. That they become another person also doesn't surprise me - think of all the people who write stories like "I'm Twilight Sparkle now", which is incredibly ridiculous and dumb but I kinda get why they do it.
What really gets me is how incredibly POPULAR these stories are for the READERS. I really don't understand that at all.
Can I just say I'd totally read a Groucho in Equestria story? And that I would totally ship Harpo and Pinkie? And that this is your fault, Wanderer D?
I do believe it stems from stories such as Malideus and Rise of Darth Vulcan. I remember it as Darth Vulcan started to draw in attention to the idea of a human coming to equestria via something they find from a store, then some dude wrote that one Solaire (F*** it I'm having fun I think it was called) story and the genre exploded. And there were a few half-decent stories. I guess the appeal to the readers is that they enjoy reading about some average dude like themselves getting all these magical powers and well.. going to Equestria? And as the reader they envision themselves in the characters place. I don't understand though, if a 'Displaced' picks up a artifact from Star Wars, why don't they get sent to Star Wars? Why MLP? Anyways I think out of the whole Lohav mess Darth Vulcan is the only one with a power source that actually makes sense...
I think you hit the nail on the head. Obsolescence had a great blog on "Displaced" stories as thry're called a little while back.
What bothers me most about the whole displaced thing is that the number of good HiE/PoE stories being written has declined.
3282417 3282346 They're all in Equestria because there's nowhere else to go. At least, not if they want to be posted on this site. (There must be ponies or else Fimfiction won't allow it to be posted at least until the new site is finished)
And as for answering the main question, not all Displaced writers are doing it out of laziness or whatever usual negative reasons people throw around. As someone in the group, I'll admit that most of the stories in it are crap. Like seriously shit. But there's still a few good ones that're worth a read, and this sort of story gives a lot of freedom to the writer. You can experiment around, deal with other authors, learn more about writing, and try and learn to develop your own style along the way.
Between Displaced haters and the authors that go to bat for them, though, the same reasons to like/hate Displaced are always used, which I gotta say that both sides are correct in this debate. Some stories follow the courses lain out by the defenders, others sink into the courses lain out by the haters. However many of the good/bad pitfalls and cliches a story falls into is up to the author.
I don't speak for anyone but myself, but I just write Displaced stuff to have an outlet to experiment with writing and to have fun long the way. Not to copy the stories that have been featured, not to fulfill some immature power fantasy or any of that shit, just to learn more about basic writing and have fun.
Has anyone done the opposite? Like, Superman gets sent to Equestria, but with none of his powers: now he's just Joe Average.
Sincerely I don't have the faintest idea, never had any interest in them...
While HiE can be an interesting set up for the story, this whole trend seems... How can I say, empty? Devoid of meaning...
For me, it's because I like stories about people who've had similar experiences to my own. I can think: What if I'd worn the Captain Hammer costume that day instead?
It's nice to be reminded that the Chessverse wasn't the worst thing Fimfic ever spawned.
3282256 There's a problem with that. Most superheroes and villains are boring, especially in a land where conflicts are ultimately about friendship problems and supervillains have supermagic. Superman goes to Equestria? Man, how boring would that be? He couldn't fight any of the major villains anyway. He'd just fly around the Everfree pushing monsters back in until Twilight got bored with the place and moved back to Canterlot.
I'm guessing the interesting part is "human goes to Equestria", and they add the superpowers or villainy just to kick the story off. Otherwise the stories would all be the same: Guy goes to Equestria, is disoriented, meets Pinkie Pie, learns about friendship, bones Twilight, the end.
3282467 (sees Admiral Biscuit posted story idea 17 minutes ago...)
... it's probably already too late.
Wait?.... seriously? There is stories like that? Well I am glad I haven't stumbled across any of them yet. Either you write (input superhuman here) in Equestria or you write regular human in Equestria. You can't write regular human turned super and then teleported to Equestria. It just wouldn't work. Or... would it?... it might actually be an interesting concept... Confusing and probably hard to make a good story out of (I'd imagine), but maybe? Hmm.....
Edit: Nah... probably not.
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Strangely, in 40 or so HiEs, I haven't done that.
...yet. I'll be sure to blame you when I do.
Luckily, I have three other projects which need to be finished first.
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To be fair, I'm also part of the Five Score group as a writer, and I've seen the same thing repeated from there.
People get a cute idea in what's the hot flavor of the moment, write the story up to that, and then hit a brick wall. Flooding the group with stories that never get finished and quite often weren't that good to begin with.
And, well, when that happens there's a backlash. When people have clicked 9 meh stories in a row that ended after one chapter they're not likely to give #10 a try.
To be honest, I can't blame people for that.
Heck, Horse Feathers have outright been praised once or twice for having world-building. I've literally gotten a few PM's phrasing it like that.
Not to be mean, but I think that says something not especially flattering about the average Displaced/LoHAV verse story.
3282493 I personally enjoyed a few of the Chess Game of the Gods stories.
To answer your question, Wanderer D, people keep writing these stories because a large number of people keep reading them. They are fairly easy to write and are consistently in the popular and featured boxes.
Ugh, Displaced.
Worst genre of self-inserts ever...
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It's a matter of believing that those characters are more interestin to read about. Maybe bacause we long to see another side to these characters. A softer or more aggressive side. It allows you to twist the character as you wish.