Surface Warfare · 5:49pm Nov 18th, 2013
Ships are the bread and butter of a navy. It's kind of what they do. Let's take a look at how some countries do business.
Let’s talk about ship classes first. While some are obvious (submarines), some are not (the difference between cruiser/destroyer/frigate). For example, the 453-foot Oliver Hazard Perry-class from the United States are frigates, while the 425-foot Iroquois-class of the Canadian Navy are destroyers. The 600-foot Zumwalt-class are destroyers, while the 567-foot Ticonderoga-class are cruisers. Basically, there’s a lot of overlap, and the definition has changed over the years (a modern Arleigh Burke-class destroyer has the same tonnage as a World War II light cruiser). For an additional example, Japan has ships called the Hyūga-class helicopter destroyers that are actually light aircraft carriers, but since Japan’s treaty agreement doesn’t allow them to have those, then a destroyer it is. The point I’m trying to make is that you can’t just straight up compare ships based on their classification.
LPD-Landing Platform, Dock; LCS-Littoral Combat Ship; DDG-Destroyer, Guided Missile; FFG-Frigate, Guided missile
A word on ship classification:
If it’s an amphibious ship, the first letter is L. If it’s an aircraft carrier it has CV. C without a V following it is some kind of cruiser. G implies guided missiles. I say implies because some ships that have the missiles don’t have the G, and some ships that no longer have the missiles still retain the G in their classification. If it’s nuclear powered, the last letter is N. Plus, the designations can stack: SS is submarine, but SSBN is a nuclear powered submarine armed with ballistic missiles. Overall, it’s a really complicated system, but should give you a general idea of the type of ship.
Now onto a brief overview of each main class. I’ll discuss them in descending order by size.
First up is the ship that most of you can best recognize, the aircraft carrier:
'Sup?
These are for operating fixed wing airplanes, and are barely considered Surface Warfare because they have only defensive weapons. The United States has ten carriers. There are only eleven other fixed-wing carriers in the world. Brazil(1), China(1), France(1), India(2), Italy(2), Russia(1), Spain(1), Thailand(1), and the United Kingdom(1). The French carrier is the only one outside of the United States that is nuclear powered.
Next up, and often confused with aircraft carriers, we have amphibious assault ships:
Hello sailor!
These are also barely Surface Warfare. They are for landing Marines on the beach. They often have flat decks for operating vertical takeoff aircraft like helicopters and VTOL jets and usually have well decks for landing craft to go in and out. Ironically, the US's amphibs at 45,000 tons are about the same size as most of the aircraft carriers from other countries.
About the same size as amphibs we have battleships. Battleships are good for one thing only: putting steel on target. But those aren’t in service anymore, and we won’t talk about them further. This isn’t a history blog.
I already know some of you will inevitably turn the comments section into a battleship thread.
Moving on down, we have cruisers.
Привет.
Peru operates the last true cruiser in the world. It was launched in 1941. The Russians operate the Kirov-class, which are nuclear powered, have hundreds of missiles, and are basically the most badass surface warships in the world. When they work. Only one of the four is currently active. The United States has the Ticonderoga-class which are primarily intended for air defense, but they can do everything a destroyer can.
And that brings us to destroyers:
The Arleigh Burke-class, the most numerous kind of destroyer in the world. An early build ship wouldn’t have the helicopter hangar but would have Harpoon anti-ship missiles. The early ship would also have a shorter gun barrel. 5” is the bore. The /54 and /62 indicate caliber, which from a naval gun standpoint means how long the barrel is. One caliber equals the diameter of the shell, which is five inches. The barrel is 5x54 (270) or 5x62 (310) inches long.
Destroyers started out as “torpedo boat destroyers,” ships that protected fleets from torpedo boats in the early 1900’s. These days, destroyers tend to be do-it-all ships, with a capability for air warfare, surface warfare, and anti-submarine warfare. Most of them carry helicopters. Besides the United States, a dozen or so countries operate destroyers.
On to frigates:
Yeah, I’m a frigate. Want to make something of it?
Frigates are generally smaller than destroyers and not as capable. Most of them have less air warfare capability. A few dozen countries around the world operate frigates.
Smaller than frigates, we have corvettes:
Well, I thought it was funny.
Corvettes are generally shorter than 350 feet. They seldom cross oceans.
After that are coastal patrol boats. These are small, but counter-intuitively, many carry anti-ship missiles. This makes them fast moving, hard to hit, and dangerous, but prone to sink in even mild seas.
And now, weapons
Guns are seen in declining numbers in the modern navy. Many of today’s ships only carry a single main gun, usually no larger than 5”.
The Zumwalt-class will carry two 155mm (6.10”) guns, which pretty much makes it the closest thing to a battleship that will ever serve while most of us are alive.
Guns are seldom used for anything anymore. With the rise of missiles, ships have to stay further away from threats and guns will typically only be used on targets where the threat is small.
Some ships also carry smaller guns, like a 25mm chain gun to deal with small boats. Some of them also carry gatling guns, like the 20mm Phalanx CIWS, or the 30mm Goalkeeper. These can be used against incoming missiles.
Next up are missiles.
A Tomahawk cruise missile being launched from a VLS (vertical launch system). The Tomahawk can fly 1,500 miles with a 1,000 pound warhead and hit with pinpoint GPS accuracy.
Other things that can be launched from VLS include anti-air missiles and rocket-assisted anti-submarine torpedoes. Most destroyers and cruisers from around the world can carry things like these.
Anti-ship missiles are also very important things to carry. It’s important to note that most of them will not kill a ship in one shot. Most missiles are just “soft kill” weapons, intending to damage a ship so that it will go away. In 1987, the frigate USS Stark was hit by two Exocet missiles launched from an Iraqi airplane. It was damaged, but even then was still able to sail under its own power.
Things TNaB thinks you should know:
The United States probably has the best air warfare capability through the proven Aeigis Combat System, which uses the powerful SPY-1 radar, and long experience. We've used this thing to knock satellites out of orbit. Other contries with Aegis include Japan, Spain, Australia, South Korea, and Norway. The UK Royal Navy and PLAN (Chinese Navy) are both rapidly improving their anti-air stuff with new systems.
PLAN stands for People’s Liberation Army Navy. See, China doesn’t have a military, they have an Army. The Army has a Navy branch. Want to get more confusing? The Chinese Navy has airplanes – the People’s Liberation Army Naval Air Force. No, I’m not kidding.
The Chinese have dozens and dozens of Houbei missile boats. They’re cheap and easy to build, and plan to use swarm tactics. Swarm tactics are scary.
Iran plans to use swarm tactics with their FIAC (fast improvised attack craft). These are basically speedboat-sized craft with small guns and rockets on them. Some have warheads mounted for suicide attacks.
The Arleigh Burkes are not bad ships, but like I pointed out earlier, you can only get helicopters or Harpoons, not both.
The Oliver Hazard Perrys are rapidly deteriorating. They don't carry Harpoons. They have also had their anti-air missiles removed. They are supposed to be replaced by Littoral Combat Ships, but LCS's aren't being built fast enough to meet the decommissioning schedule of the Perrys.
Ships of the same class are not exactly the same. They aren’t stamped out in factories. Instead, they’re assembled pretty much by hand in shipyards. There are minor differences, especially if the Navy decides to implement changes halfway through.
The foreign equivalent to the Harpoon is the C802, built by China and exported to Iran, who in turn exported it to the Hezbollah terrorists. This is a bad thing.
I hate to say it, but new anti-ship missiles much better than our stuff are being developed, like the SS-N-22 SUNBURN. Some of them are supersonic and with larger warheads. The Chinese also have the DF-21D anti-ship ballistic missile.
Most of the damaged ships the United States has had in the last sixty or so years have come from mines. In 1988, the frigate Samuel B. Roberts hit an Iranian mine and in response we launched Operation Preying Mantis, the largest US surface battle since WWII. It includes the kind-of-badass line from the Captain of USS Wainwright to the Iranian vessel Joshan: “Stop your engines, abandon ship, I intend to sink you.”
Submarines are really bad for surface ships. They carry big torpedoes that can crack a medium-sized ship in half.
The best way to take out a submarine is another submarine, but that's a whole other blog.
While Naval Aviation, SEALs, etc. get all the publicity, there’s something undeniably stirring about sailing, especially back in the days of wooden ships and iron men. The vast majority of people in the Navy operate from surface ships. It’s how it’s always been and likely will always be.
Perhaps one of the reasons why I enjoy the Honorverse series so much, it is very much wooden ships and iron men... just set 2000 years in the future.
Guess I have to satisfy my big cannon obsession with World of Battleships.
If the thing ever comes out.
To this day Im still confused on the actual role of Frigates, Destroyers and Cruisers.
I know now that DD's are the navys workhorses and CCs tend to be specialised in their abilities.
1518700 I should really start reading those books.
1518777
Frigates I think are more for coastal defenses, or a poor mans destroyer.
You should, and if you don't mind eBooks you can get the first two free electronically.
1518786
Ooh, awesome. I actually have an E-book thing (dont know the model) might aswell try it out. Do you have a link?
1518797
Give me a moment...
Here you go:
HH1- On Basilisk Station
HH2- The Honor of the Queen
Be warned you maybe drawn into a fascinating universe and may seek out the 20 something other books in the series.
Why must you make these awesome blogs?
Anyway this is still pretty awesome and liking all things military I enjoy reading these blog post.
Chinese military organization: must be intel confusion tactics at its finest
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Or dragons, apparently
.
(Because for some reason, the Air Force themselves couldn't figure out a way to do it.)
Which, IIRC, has actually only happened once in actual combat.
1518802
Shit. Now I got to read them...
1518820
Napoleonic War in SPACE... at least until the current arc, but welcome to a world that takes Missile Spam to an art form
1518802 Bookmarked and saved. Download later once I find my Ebook again.
1518830 Missile Spam.
images.wikia.com/gundam/images/a/ab/Baikal_Missile_Spam.png
If I remember right, the Japnese were the first to "visalise" the artform that is Missile Spam.
Since we are already at it, I just leave this one here...
th01.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2011/232/f/d/celestia_vs_nightmare_moon_by_rubendevela-d474ysk.jpg
1518870
There is a reason why missile spam is called the Macross Missile Massacre on TVTropes. But let's put it this way, in the latest books a small squadron of cruisers launched missiles that measured in the thousands
1518878 O.o
Serious business.
At least I know where THIS GUY took his inspiration from. Sadly hes gone dark since mid July this year.
Yes, those rowed locks on the sides are Torp/Missile launchers.
Edit: Scratch that. this guy is still active. Found a comment reply of him form End of October.
1518935
And it was all shooting over the horizon too. If you go off what would be the largest naval engagement up to that point... ship tonnage on one side is measured in billions of tons with millions of people manning those ships. In that battle 1.2 million killed on the loosing side, which was the largest side as well
1518977
Then again I shouldnt be surprised.
Im playing EVE Online.
1518820 Yes, the CIWS (pronounced "See-whizz") can be used against incoming missiles. But it's still a small chance. It would work better against dragons, unless they're also heading mostly-straight at you at 600+ mph.
That and they are basically floating cities. If you're not terribly claustrophobic and don't like eating or the internet, they're not that bad. Us Navy types also sometimes refer to them as prison.
I'm loving these blogs.
1519020
I'm well aware of what CIWS can do. Was just joking about TNaB's very first fic ever. Wouldn't they use the anti-missle Sea Sparrows against anti-ship missles though (at farther ranges)?
1518987
Yeah we are looking at the Pan Diaspora War, things are going to get real interesting soon. One one side we have the largest, most powerful military ever by sheer numbers they out weigh the other side by a considerable margin. On the other side we have the most advance militaries ever, many of which have been fighting constantly for the past 20 T-Years, the other hasn't fought a real war in centuries. Blood will be split, the galaxy forever changed, and the mastermind behind it all will have his head on a pike on Elizabeth III's front lawn.
1519080 Yes, although modern anti-ship missiles are starting to maneuver on the way in so they are harder to hit. Also check out RAM
I gotta clear some stuff up here. TNaB, you did good, but I can't let this slide.
First off, LHD's and LHA's are technically escort carriers; pretty much just as capable as other nations' aircraft carriers. The only difference is that they don't have the catapult systems installed. If the navy wanted to, they could retrofit them, and we could launch planes off of them just like our supercarriers.
The Arleigh-Burke Class destroyers, you can think of them as MK I and MK II. It's a *really* reliable class, so instead of building a new class (like the Zumwalt class), they instead decide to make a subclass (MK III is on track for production after the 3 Zumwalt class destroyers are built).
And speaking on subclass, when TNaB mentioned differences between ships, they refer to that as a subclass. All the current aircraft carriers are Nimitz-class. The USS Ronald Reagan, the ship I used to serve on, is a Nimitz-class, but also is the start of the Reagan subclass, since it's the first to incorporate a number of upgrades, such as the bulbous bow and flight deck improvements (BTW, the bulbous bow allows for greater stability while sailing. For the Reagan, it meant we could launch planes faster because the waves of the ocean wouldn't affect us as much, thanks to said bulbous bow).
Frigates and cruisers are going away mainly because there's no specific need for them anymore. More and more, destroyers are filling the roles they left behind. What the destroyers can't cover, the new LCS's take on. Though, the new Littoral Combat Ships aren't really performing like I'd like.
As for the offensive capabilities of aircraft carriers, you might consider it just a technicality, but the main offense are the planes. There's no two ways about it, really. If you dont' want to count it, that's on you, but I think it's as valid as any missile.
The last 2 are fun facts! The first one involves the USS Constitution. It is the Navy's oldest commissioned ship, being over 200 years old!
The second involves nuclear cruisers! Because nuclear power was such a big deal, they wanted nuclear powered everything! Cruisers were the test ships, and 3 of them were built. However, nuclear powered ships that weren't submarines or carriers were too expensive, and little was gained compared to regular old diesel engines. So all those plans were scrapped, and the 3 cruisers were decommissioned when their time was up.
If I mixed anything up, my bad. I got midterms tomorrow.
1519176
I hesitate to call LHDs escort carriers. Helicopters or Ospreys for transporting troops are their primary aircraft and they also do significant landing craft activity. Maybe the new America (LHA-6) without the welldeck can be called a true escort carrier.
In my list of carriers above, I only counted ships where the planes take off and land horizontally. Technically, the UK doesn't have that capability any more since they retired their Harriers, but I counted the one ship, Illustrious, because it used to operate that way.
I don't think the LCS is really performing the way anybody wants them to.
Actually, they built quite a few more than just three nuclear cruisers. Long Beach was the first. In 1975, the Navy changed up its ship classification. The unique Bainbridge and Truxtun, and the two California-class nuclear ships were all originally classified as destroyer leaders before reclassifying as cruisers. Three of the four Virginia-class were actually frigates before reclassifying as cruisers. The last of the Virginia-class was built late enough that it was a cruiser all the way.
Battleships are literally the greatest thing ever invented ever. We need to put giant tracks on them, and use them as land battleships. Fuck logic, it would be awesome. If it ever worked.
1519261
I'd call them that based solely on capability. The only thing that makes them not a true escort carrier is the lack of a catapult launch and recovery system. On a technical standpoint, they are just as much a carrier as the Japanese "destroyers".
Won't the HMS Queen Elizabeth qualify as well, once it's commissioned? Also, what do you think of the UK keeping the ramp around for the Queen Elizabeth?
Dammit, you're right. I must have confused reactor core designs with the number of ships built.
Such a shame. And they're going to have like 8 or 10 of the new LCS's, yet only 3 of the new Zumwalt destroyers. BTW, any idea why they decided to go with building 2 classes at the same time?
1519301 I would count QE as a true carrier. Heck, the ramp is probably the only reason why they can operate jets horizontally. I've always thought ramps looked silly. Also, ramps are no replacement for catapults. The plane can't take off with its max payload without a cat launch.
As for building two classes of ships at once, I'm not sure what you mean - Zumwalts and LCS's? We're also building Burkes, Fords, and Virgina submarines among others.
1519338
I haaate the look of the ramps, and a lot of those smaller carriers have them. It made sense decades ago, when we didn't have the power to use a catapult-based system. But these days, I partially don't get why.
I have heard, though, that the QE has a ramp because it's a political move to force Lockheed Martin to provide modifications for the new F-35's(I think that was the jet).
I meant the LCS's. They're building the Independence Class and the Freedom Class at the same time (freedom class are odd-numbered, independence class is even-numbered). Just wondering if you knew why they went with both classes at the same time.
1519365 Yeah, no idea on that one. Probably a political move "Look! They're all one big happy class family!"
1519278 I think the BOLO series covers that. The Mark XXXV BOLOs are like twenty stories tall and roughly hemispherical.
1519176
Assuming they fixed the electromagnetic system for the Ford, yes. Otherwise, the steam piping and boilers needed take up a LOT of room, which would take away from other things (like, how many Marines we can dump on the beach).
... except for, technically, the Ford, though it's not quite operational yet.
1519379
Boy, they sure do have an ugly family member then!
1519392
I think they had a lot of development problems figured out with the EMALS, but there's still a ways to go with it. They'll figure out the rest of it once it's out to sea.
The piping might take up space. Not THAT much, though. With that ship, you're looking at... 1 catapult? That's a quarter of what you see on any Nimitz carrier. Steam load won't be that difficult: they'll just retrofit their current steam systems (most likely their reboilers) to provide cat steam. This is assuming they don't add a steam generator just for the purpose of catapults. A lot of the flight deck/catapult equipment was up in the 03 level anyways, and was generally out of the way of everything.
I didn't count the Ford because it's not commissioned yet. Still a couple years before it's officially a United States Navy ship. If I stayed in, I'm sure I would have been a chief on the Ford by now. Assuming I successfully transferred to the Ford.
1519392 Okay, but the KV VI was an actual tank used in post WW2. Every prototype failed miserably from some stupid reason or another, but it actually existed.
1519486 Considering the kind of gigantic earth-moving equipment we have these days, I'm sure we could. The problem is they're impractical for modern kinds of warfare. Not to mention the maintenance nightmares ... F-18s and Nimitz carriers are bad enough!
1519495 Well, if you look at what the afghans can do with a spent M72 tube, and some mortars, I'm pretty sure we could make a low tech super tank...
Technically, the US still has two battleships in service: The Iowa and, if I remember correctly, the Wisconsin- the ship featured in your first Battleships story. At least the Iowa, and I think the Wisconsin as well, are both museums at the moment, but their museum setup is such that if needed, they could be quickly put into service. It's not exactly surprising that they're not in active service, seeing as the four Iowa-class battleships were built and used in World War II(in fact, they were sent to Japan for the peace treaty to be signed aboard the Missouri), but they're still big scary ships that the Navy wants available within a few weeks if they're needed, not a few years.
Interesting, So would I be correct to assume you're surface fleet then?
Hmmmm guess I'll need to take a look at some wiki's and history for the navel stuff I'm looking for.
Though...now that you mention battleships...wasn't the last one the USS Arizona which was used in Desert Storm?
I believe it also cost something like 1Million a day to run.
1519704 Lol, why do you people keep assuming I'm Navy? I know I talk about it a lot, but jeeze...
1519739 Sorry if I didn't answer your question about history. Also, it wasn't Arizona, we haven't had a ship named that since Pearl Harbor. It was Wisconsin and Missouri deployed to Desert Storm.
1519789 Well, if there comes a need for a floating artillery platform, they have two that they can use. Even 20 months is still better than the time and money it would take to design and build a new one.
1519107 Wow
1520431
Yep, never piss off the Queen, when her grudges die she has them stuffed and mounted.
Very cool. There's a lot to be learned about the Navy and it's ships.
Sometime, you should do a bit on close combat, like Bayonette fighting, combat knives, tomahawk axes, etc., different tactical uses, disadvantages, and scenarios where they would be used... Maybe address different styles, like the MC MAP, Systema, and others.
1519789 I knew there was a reason the USS Arizona didn't feel quiet right but was super familiar.
But it was two ships during Desert Storm? I could have sworn it was only one.
1518776
Just play WoT and get a TOGII*, you'll basically be playing World of Warships! There's a reason I named mine the H.M.S. Indefatigable!
1520675
Fair warning: the series+Shadow of Saganami spinoff+the short story anthologies comes out to ~4,284,761 words, according to the best source I could find. However, having read all ~3 million words of the main series at LEAST twice, I can attest it is well worth the time!
1733929
Yeah...I'm a cheapstake, so that's not gonna happen unless someone gifts me somehow.
Also, this
supcom.standardof.net/files/2011/10/Battleship-Summit-Class.jpg
1733929
That it is