Site Post » Copyrighted Song Lyrics · 8:35am Nov 5th, 2013
So a lot of folks have been rather concerned lately about the issue of Copyrighted Song Lyrics. Specifically, about the rule in the FAQ saying that folks aren't allowed to use those in stories.
First up, lemme clarify here that Song Lyrics from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic are not banned. The issue was taken to lord knighty, and it hath been declared that the use of these lyrics are acceptable. So you're fine using verses from Winter Wrap-Up and stuff. Just, y'know, not other things like a hankerin' to write down some Linkin Park lyrics.
With that out of the way: we've had a lot of people emphasize to us how little sense this whole affair over Copyrighted Song Lyrics seems to make. Fimfiction is, after all, a fanfiction website. Why be concerned over the possibility of a legal threat for song lyrics? Isn't our basic existence sort of a flouting of copyright law anyway?
Well, yes and no.
Here's some highlights:
The copyright owners often will tolerate fan fiction that is not-for-profit because fan interest is part of what makes the underlying intellectual property valuable (I attended a seminar once where a studio executive lamented that he wished he had a fan-fiction problem with his latest movie). However, the owner of the copyright to the song lyrics may be a different entity that does not share the same interest in the owner of the intellectual property that you are a fan of.
In essence: yes, it's kind of weird to take issue with copyright on a site dedicated to fanfiction, but not all copyright holders are equal. Hasbro has proven itself to take a fairly light touch in regards to dealing with fanworks. Those holding the copyrights to song lyrics to many other songs out there, however, have something of a reputation for aggressively enforcing the use of their property. It's not entirely imprudent to guard against the possibility of music industry lawyers at the door.
If you want to know what is "fair use" read 17 USC 107 and you will see that profit is a factor, but only one of four. And, the issue will be irrelevant if one of these rich powerhouses decides they want to stop you. They have the muscle and you do not. So the issue is not whether it is legal, it is what is the customary practice of the artist whose copyright you are infringing with respect to fanfiction.
In essence: fair use is a rather common point brought up in discussions about this. Some people assert that it covers the breach of copyright in this case. The truth is... that's questionable. The gist of it is that, despite folks not making a profit from fanfiction, it's not necessarily clear through fair use. Moreover, it's sort of a shaky defense, given the points that determine fair use, and it's not something that you'd particularly want to rely on, given that even a failed legal threat can be costly to a site.
It does not matter whether yo make money from the web-site---if you infringe someone else's copyright by publishing song lyrics you risk becoming a defendant in an expensive law suit.
In essence: This one should speak for itself. Even if Fimfiction beats a lawsuit, the attempt itself can be damaging, so it's much better to avoid the possibility altogether.
Hopefully this clears up a lot of the issues and concerns surrounding copyrighted song lyrics, the use thereof, and why allowing them could put Fimfiction in some hot water. It probably won't cover everything, but it should get at most of the major concerns.
Have a nice day, folks.
Note - November 5:
Some additional clarifications to the application of the rule:
If you can provide ample proof that you've obtained permission from proper holder of copyright for the song in question, you're golden. The burden, however, is on you to prove you've obtained this permission, and from the proper people. The staff can't quite accept "But I asked and they told me I could, trust me," on its own weight.
If the song you are using is part of the public domain, you are also golden. You're ideally going to want to make sure of this before you try to pass off song lyrics, though. There are copyrights held to things that nobody even thinks there are copyrights on. The most prominent example I can think of is Happy Birthday--though that's currently in dispute, I think.
You may be golden if you've made sufficiently heavy changes to the lyrics you're using. Be warned, however, that this is a sketchy and debatable matter, and more or less has to be decided on a per-case basis, so we do have to reserve the right to say that "This isn't enough." A good place to start is that if you're just changing certain words to corresponding pony vocab like mare/hoof, it's probably not enough.
You are not golden, though, simply for giving credit to the copyright holder when you use their work. The enforcement of copyright law doesn't quite care about credit so much as permission, so it's still a violation to use copyrighted song lyrics even if you've given credit.
Alex Edit, November 6: Linking to a youtube video within your fic is okay.
Using a song title as your chapter title is okay.
Sprinkling multiple lines of a song between prose is, unfortunately, not okay.
I was just about to ask where this was.
Would this also include parody song lyrics?
Equestrian mare
Stay away from me
Equestrian mare
Mama let me be
Like this?
Okay, that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up.
Okay, I'm probably punishing myself with this, but what if we have a story that was previously approved, has been up for a year, and features song lyrics? Like, a lot of them. In every chapter. Do we (by which I mean me) have to take the story down?
>implying logic, reason, and proper adherence to copyright law will ever convince the general populace of FIMFic that the world doesn't revolve around them and that the mods aren't Satan
lol
Ah, you did post it as a site post after all! Awesome, thanks for the clarification!
1483536
You don't have to take the whole story down, but the song lyrics should be removed. Of course, it also depends on how you handled them. If you just had blocks of lyrics, then that's definitely just a straight copy-pasted. If there are a few lines here and there, it's possible to get around because at that point you're just using words in a coincidentally similar order to a piece of music. Any more than that, though, and it's gotta go.
And now it's clear. Hopefully it'll stop the drama.
No it won't.
~Skeeter The Lurker
1483543
Well the problem is that not only do I have massive blocks of lyrics, but the lyrics themselves are a central part of the story itself. So, should I just take it down, then? Also, would EQD (since the story is on there already) be willing to host GDocs chapters with lyrics in them since it links away from the site?
I'm... kinda amazed. This is a site blog post that has clear, concise wording that does not hold underlying hostility, passive-aggressive wording, or demand sudden, inexplicable change from the writers. It's informative, and contains cites related to what we do.
It's a breath of fresh air. Thanks, avatar with magnificent beard.
1483534 I think (from other claims and sites, so don't quote my paraphrasing) it has to be more than just ponifying words (i.e. everybody/everypony. etc.). So maybe change the other lyrics to.
-So mods, is this kinda thing okay? I know flat-out copying and changing modifiers is out, but is parodying?
Does that mean, if we have used pieces of songs, we need to delete those parts? For example, if you put "Is this the real life? / Is this just fantasy? / Caught in a landslide / No escape from reality" in your story, does that mean you'll have to remove it?
1483550 I suppose we'll have to take it up with Weird Al.
1483534
Since weird Al makes a living off doing stuff like that, I think you would be ok.
1483553 I know in the music industry parody is alright, just listen to Wierd Al (like you mentioned) or watch any Seth McFarlane show (they will use nigh any tune and turn-a-phrase with it into their own song).
But this site is its own thing; so the rules are slightly different.
1483547
Oh dear. Well, if they're that integral story, then I guess the only really choice is to unpublish it. Sorry. :\
What about optional links to copyrighted songs on Youtube?
It wouldn't be Metallica or anything of the sorts, instead songs in a crossover like Zelda or something like that, which is copyrighted.
Just want to clarify this before I go on doing it and getting in trouble
1483554 Weird Al has to ask every person he makes a parody of before he can do it. This actually almost destroyed a few of his songs because the original artist had a bit of a fit when they heard the song.
1483566
Though do you know about the EQD thing? The story is here, and I was wondering if I could just put the GDoc links on the story and continue it that way, like before Fimfic was a thing?
It's alright, it's only a story, and I'd rather Fimfic not get in trouble.
You bet it does.
1483573 no.
He doesn't.
He is not required to.
Ever single person I have ever met thinks he is required to.
He is not.
He does it because he's a nice guy.
Think about it; if you needed permission to parody every song ever, don't you think those idiots who make those fucking retarded-ass minecraft parody songs would have ben nailed by now?
1483567
Links to songs shouldn't be a problem - I'm no expert in the field, but as far as I'm aware, Fimfiction isn't hosting the copyrighted content. If the copyright holder has an issue, they can simply take down the youtube video.
This discussion is so very american. Love it.
1483574
You should be able to email Seth and have him swap the links over.
1483567
I'm pretty sure that is fine. That's what the mods have said to me in other threads/posts, at least. You can link to the song or embed the video instead of writing the lyrics.
What about fics that have song names and/or lyrics as title and/or chapter names?
1483580 Ya I know that, he's required too because he makes a monetary profit from it. If he didn't make a profit then he wouldn't be required to.
1483580
That's inductive at best, Reg. You might be right, I don't know, but lack of evidence is not evidence of absence.
1483607 you do understand that those minecraft losers do the same thing? they put their songs on itunes and charge 99 cents.
You can parody someone else's work, and as long as you give them credit, can do whatever. Of course, they can go back and try and sue you (as coolio tried to do), but technically, as long as you admit that you're using someone else's lyrics as a basis.
1483611 dude, they make a shit-ton of cash (at least the big names do), and they generate tons of hits, as well as using two copywrited pieces of content, at LEAST. And anyone can do it! I think that's solid evidence.
In addition to Weird Al himself saying that he isn't required to, he does it anyone because he feels like it's the right thing to do.
1483613 Yes, and there have been hundreds of video's that have been removed from youtube for that very reason. Many of them not even having something to do with music. It isn't legal to do something like that for monetary profit without the permission of the copyright owner. The reason youtube isn't fucked is because of three things; If they tried to get rid of it they'd have to remove the entire website, the backlash that would happen from such a thing, and the fact that many of the artist's that made and own the songs just don't give a shit.
I remember a user on Fimfiction that actually does commission fanfiction. Won't name him cause I think it's a dick move to deliberately make the life of a fellow user difficult and it shouldn't be any more cracked down on then Art commissions.
1483620
I'd need to see specific videos to know what they're doing. It's entirely possible Content ID is redirecting the profits to the owners of the original songs.
I don't know.
I hardly think Weird Al's a reputable source of legal information. He might be, but I'm not aware of him actually being a lawyer. Regardless, you could still be sued, even if your victory would be inevitable. I presume Weird Al has the luxury of having labels willing to defend him.
ASCAP Sues Girl Scouts
Song lyrics are touchy. The folks in the music business are truly desperate and the ones in charge of suing over use of songs and lyrics are ALREADY running around suing little bars and nightclubs and the freaking girl scouts. It's not wise to pick a fight with ASCAP or BMI: they are performance rights organizations by nature and going to court is what they do. I approve of this editorial decision because going to court against ASCAP or whoever would be costly and a pain in the plot
1483631
There are plenty of people on the site who do commissions, myself included. These have never been a problem.
1483604
I doubt that is the same thing, as a chapter name is just a scrap. Hell, I've got that in a few of my chapter names. Bright side: if it did pose a problem, that's more changeable. But by the same token that's why it's likely to squeak by and be okay: it's not a 'performance' of the lyrics in the work, it's a sort of tag.
Wait, so is this going to work retroactively as well? By which I mean penalties and such imposed upon older stories using copyrighted song lyrics?
Loathe,
Your Antagonist
Eh, no, actually this doesn't explain what we are allowed to do at all. All you posted here is the lawyers explanation of why it can be dangerous to post lyrics, you have not even made a post about it in the faq's about what is allowed or not, or is it as simple as that from now on all music that is not MLP made is forever banned from fimfiction? If you don't tell us exactly what we can and can not do, this might happen again
Fair enough.
However, this begets a bigger question - what of crossovers? Especially crossovers with media different from cartoons?
Additionally, what about lyrics that ostensibly have the author, but are too old to be copyrighted? I`m fairly sure that quoting Shakespeare won`t invoke any legal problems, but what about, say... Elvis Presley song, for example?
1483620
Actually, parody is a specific case set aside. We`re talking about quoting lyrics here, not about parodying them.
So what you're saying is, the music industry's a souless monster that doesn't care about creativity or innovation and only wishes to crush the consumer under its boot made of solid gold.
And people still bitch about Hasbro shutting down a 3D printer that was making actual pony toys.
Hypothetically if a certain artist that interacts with his fans on a daily basis, say on youtube, allows them to use the lyrics if asked and the acknowledgement of him saying 'yes' is screencapped could we then use the song?
What if we make up our own song with our own lyrics?
Is that okay? I feel like such an idiot right now... 
Honestly, I think the existence of the rule alone is enough to solve any legal issues. So long as the rule is in place, the website cannot be sued because it is a user breaking the rules of the site so they will have to remove the offending material after it is reported using the nice report button we have.
1483628 YouTube is a bad example because they tend to be very nervous about legal action so they are quick to pull videos even if they are very clearly legal.
1483661 There is a reason I refuse to buy music from the big record labels.
1483580
CaptainSparkles was hit by a copyright notice, but that's different and we've already spoke about this.
1483648
I'm going to concur with this. It's one thing to quote the hottest Lady Gaga or One Direction song in full. It's another to quote songs that are well out of the public spotlight (Chuck Berry) or from artists not active for decades (Linda Perhacs). it's still yet another to quote from songs in the public domain ("Greensleeves", "Lavender Blue"), and yet they're all being given the same weight.
While I understand the concerns of the site, I feel things are going overboard when "Ye Bonnie Heart" is being banned because the copyright holder (of which none exists because it's a traditional song, meaning no one knows who the creator was, hundreds of years ago) is going to get banned.
What if, like in my story, you have actually acquired permission to use said copyrighted lyrics, like I did? Is this still acceptable?
However, there is the problem that there are users like myself who have obtained licenses and hence have permission to use said songs. Now based upon this notion, there is no reason for a story to be removed or forced to remove said lyrics if the user in question has permission from the artist!
Amazing.
Ok, I'm still gonna say this, I know that this is now done and nothing will fix this idiocy that has taken place but ill be damned if I don't say this.
Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, Inc. can be seen here, loosely but still.
Transformative, if a parody is based on a copyrighted work it will be judged by its potential harm towards the original product and from the 17 USC 107. These points however become less and less relevant as the original is warped more and more. This includes ponifying it.
Now, potential harm to sales. Lets say that the biggest asshole the musical world can muster, like Chris brown or lil wayne, then the most I can possibly hear them say is that they don't like the advertisement they are receiving. This would fall because unless we do a direct slander of their song that doesn't fall under critique, we are giving them positive advertisement and not claiming profit for it. The people the advertisement would not be a valid point either as we are not criminals or people you can validly say that we should not gain access to this kind of material because the harm that could be done.
Lastly, the point of the 17 USC 107, is a joke if anything. To determine if something is fair use the following factors are taken into account
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
This is 100% in our favor as we claim no profit for what we do and unless we use the lyrics to make a character look horrible like making a villain whip slaves to the beats of a unrelated song just to make him look bad (and even this would be hard to exploit as you can just throw the rape scene from "a clockwork orange" in their fat faces)
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
Also highly in our favor. The copyrighted material in question is not in its nature literature, it is musical. I think we can all agree that a song would not be the same if it was read out without a singing voice or music. This leads to the third point
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole;
As I just said, we are posting a portion of the material, even if we post the entire song we have only posted one part of it. To think that they could manage to claim that a substantial part of the work has been used when you have posted a part of a song in pure writing form without notes is ridiculous to say the least
Well, that's all for me, I guess I'll be going to fanfiction now where the admin hopefully knows his law and isn't afraid of the copyright monster