Site Post » PSA: Nonstory Chapter Updates · 5:35am Sep 24th, 2013
Hi again, everybody.
So there's been a problem for a while now about authors updating stories with chapters that might be tangentially related to the fic, but aren't actually part of the story itself. For a long while, the staff has been dealing with these cases as they pop up, but they're common enough as a whole that we feel there ought to be some sort of notice about them and why they aren't cool.
Examples of Nonstory Chapter Updates might include:
-Notices about the status of the story/the author, such as an indication of hiatus.
-Advertisement of things such as a sequel written to the story, or a tumblr made for it.
-FAQs from the Author about their story
-Author requests for users to send in suggestions about where the story should go next.
-A chapter that just isn't related to anything, period.
-Pictures of emergency edible fashionwear
-Etc.
Generally speaking, these are not considered a cool thing to update your story with, given that they essentially abuse the various functions Fimfiction has in place to promote stories that update with, y'know, actual story content. The update feature slots, the latest update column on the front page, favorite tracking, and so on. We're aware this may not be the intent of many authors who post these sorts of chapters, but we do have to note it's not fair to take advantages of these features for the purposes of things that aren't actually part of the story. And, obviously, intentionally abusing the chapter update system to this end isn't acceptable either.
"But wait, Obs," the cleverly inclined amongst you may say. "I am handsome (and so are you). Surely there must be some means by which I can continue to keep my followers up-to-date on things about my story and my gorgeous visage without this unfortunate business of Nonstory Chapter Updates."
There is! And thank you for noticing, you are quite handsome also.
The Blog system more or less exists as a place to put these sorts of updates, so that the folks following you can keep updated on a story's status or tangential going-ons without the need to make a Chapter Update for it. It essentially dodges all the potential nastiness that may arise from getting your story into an update feature slot with the functional equivalent of "This story is going on hiatus for a month or so. Peace out, jerkaroos."
Which, you know, we'd like to avoid, since the various functions for Chapter Update promotions should ideally be reserved for updates involving actual story content. So if you've got a hankering to tell people something about your story that isn't actually part of your story, use that, please.
(Also worth note on keeping people informed about what's happening with a story: the long description. If you're going on hiatus or want to point people toward a sequel, feel free to tack a line on the description to that effect, so people who're looking at your story can know what's up.)
This has been a Staff PSA. Stay pretty, folks, and have a nice day!
Edit - 9/24/13 (Please Read):
Update: The staff is aware that the Story-Tagging feature is not working for Blog posts, and we will work to resolve this matter with knighty when he gets back from Spain. If something can't be worked out on that end, we'll try to take another look at policy and see how it can best fit the realities of the site. Stay tuned.
But no one reads my blog! It's my
bodystory, so I get to choose what I do with it!Or is that obnoxious...
A sequel advertisement seems legit. It's a continuation of the story that's the best way to inform your built-in fanbase about a continuation they're likely to be interested in.
EDIT: The hiatus/cancellation notice also seems like it should be relevant.
The one problem with sending story-related PSAs through blogs: users who turn up months after the blog post has been posted will never get the update for said blog, and therefore they won't see the information. I'd like to take this opportunity to suggest that story-tagged blog posts should be shown somewhere on the story page.
Y-you too...
1371773
Yes, but a sequel advertisement shouldn't push legit updates out of the feature box...
lolwat
1371770
Die.
1371778
Does my profile pic fit your reaction?
1371781
Muh feelings...
1371773 You can put that sort of thing in a story-tagged blog post, and link the sequel in the description of the story if you want. Chapters, no.
1371782
Nah. Picture Solid Sparkle on my avatar, except with her eyebrows raised in confusion. The rest of her facial expression was more or less mine.
1371785
Mind if I ask what the difference is? I swear I'm not trying to be disrespectful or snarky, I just don't understand why this has become a problem worth an Obs-post
Huh... so from now on the only way I'll know the story is on hiatus or cancelled is following both the author and the story? Because that's the only way I'll see their blogs, and from experiences authors use their blogs for completely useless bullshit I have no interest on. Seeing this, is there a way to get updated if the status of a story changes? Because I rarely watch writers, and with good reason too.
1371789 Posting those things as chapters artificially inflates your story's word count, and bumps the story to the recently updated. If the story is famous enough, it can even get it featured for a time. This isn't fair to the rest of the site, because you haven't contributed anything new to that particular story. Blog posts reach out to your readership in a better way.
This isn't a new rule. It's just that LOTS of these types of things have been happening lately, and it's worth a reminder.
>>The blog system
Really? I find it the least helpful, especially when I'm reading an older story of someone I'm not Following. I appreciate links from a story I liked to its continuation or universe continuity.
I find that most authors use the blog to whine and/or cause drama. Am I alone in this observation?
I personally agree with everything in the list... except for the notice of sequels: if I'm following a story (I gave it a fave) but haven't given a 'follow' to the author, then I can't know otherwise that the story has been continued.
1371792
Is it not worth your time to look at the status (the thing that has been there forever) on stories that says if it's finished, unfinished, or on-hiatus?
1371794
Do blog posts where you check individual stories reach those who aren't subscribed to you? Because I can't remember a time when I got a notification for an author's blog when I was following them.
1371801 Blog notifications will show up in your feed.
1371797 You could check back to the story periodically and see if the author's linked a sequel in the description, or follow the author. If you like their stuff, that's a good way to keep in touch.
1371792 Sorry you feel that way, but following the author is the only way we currently have to get you notifications about new stories. If you don't want to deal with the drama, then you could check back periodically on your own schedule.
1371794
It's just that favorites indicate interest in a particular narrative, while followers are rarer and don't necessarily overlap with interest in a story 100%
By the by, what does it take to be considered a proper chapter as opposed to just a sequel update? I ask because I fully intend to find the most efficient way to circumvent this particular bullshit without violating the rules as written.
Dear Obselecence,
Does an Acknowledgements count as a nonstory chapter? I've been planing on putting one in my larger projects because, well, as with all written works, there have been many people who have helped and I would like to give credit where the credit is due. The reason I ask is because A) I don't wish to step outside of the rules when I know what they are and B) it's not really something that would be suited (I don't think anyway) to a blog post. So is it okay or would I be out of bounds on that sort of thing?
Never stop loving,
-Power to the Bronys
1371816 If you put anything like "here's a sequel" in your story, or anything of any kind that is not actually a part of the narrative, then it falls under this rule.
I suppose you could put such announcements in the author's notes of your story's final chapter, or in the description, but there's also a rule against deleting and reposting chapters to artificially bump it and garner more attention. So don't do that.
1371820
So, if I write a 10,000 word final chapter that ends with a link to a sequel story in the main body of the text, I'm in violation of the rules?
I generally agree with an author updating a story to tell us something is wrong with one exception:
Advertisement of things such as a sequel written to the story Let's face it, unless you are insanely popular, no one is going to be reading your blogs. It just kind of seems like we have to do this in order to let people know about a sequel. Now if there was a system in place where say somebody who favorite a story (with the email me checkbox ticked) would also email someone who submits a sequel to a story, then I would 100% agree with you that this is bad.
This is why I think it would be neat if instead of just starting a story, you could edit a story's status to be part of a multi-part story. Sort of like grouping two or more stories together and that way if somebody favorites the first story, then they have also Favorited the other stories that are part of the same universe.
1371825 It cannot be within the chapter text. Put it in the author's notes of that final chapter.
1371800
While true, how exactly are you suggesting I know if they change it later?
1371808
Sounds like adding more BS over something which rarely happens and has an actual usefulness to the users. It's not even a matter what I feel, you are actively messing with a non-problem in ways that make harder for people to use the website.
1371797
My thoughts exactly. Everything else makes sense, but a notification about a sequel has to be allowed. My best story has over 500 favs, but I have less than 200 followers.
The only way to let everyone who liked the original know about the sequel is to put it as a chapter. Every real book that has a sequel will point that out at the end. If George R.R. Martin can do it, why can't we?
And if you say that it pushes legit story updates out of the feature box, fair enough. Here's the solution: A notification about a sequel is usually just a few lines and a link. Just make sure that updates of less than 100 or 200 words aren't considered by the algorythm that chooses the featured stories. (That oughto get rid of most of your other problems as well.)
1371828
What if I write a chapter like: Or was it all a dream?
A/N: It wasn't click here for the sequel.
Does that pass muster?
1371829
Again, is it not worth your time to check? Or do you really not care enough about the story to check if after a bit of a long wait for a new chapter? Or even following the author to get the latest blog post.
This actually happens multiple times a day and occasionally gets stories featured unjustly which knocks more deserved fics from the feature box. So yes, it is in fact a problem.
I think a big part of the problem isn't so much that people don't use the blogs, it's that many people who read the story don't follow the author. Blog posts indicating a hiatus/sick mom/alien invasion are fairly meaningless if only ten people out of five hundred reading the story are informed about it. I think that's why this issue exists. Authors want to inform the people actually reading the story about what's going on and the easiest, most-likely-to-be-looked-at way is by a non-chapter story update.
That's not saying I approve of it. Really, it's not the author's fault the readers don't check out the blog posts. Nothing's more disappointing to a reader than to know that x updated, feel excited as you think back to x's plot, and then be struck by sadness as you look at the chapter's word count and see it only has 50 words in it.
There's also been something I always wondered about. When posting a blog, you have the option to check the little boxes that " Anyone subscribed to a checkmarked story will be updated when this blog post is posted " I've used it a few times, but the thing is, I've favorited countless fanfics and have never been informed when their authors post story-related blogs. Am I missing something, or does "subscribed" mean more than just favoriting?
There are enough serial stories on the site that it might be worth considering adding this as an official form of metadata authors can set.
Or perhaps there might be some way to add a "story blog", a way to post information that would appear in the feeds of anyone who has the story explicitly watchlisted but that wouldn't actually mark the story as "updated" as far as the rest of the site's functions go?
Generally speaking, if lots of people are using a feature in a way that it wasn't intended to accomplish some otherwise-reasonable goal, it could be a sign that the feature needs modification or that a new feature is needed.
1371833 You know... trying to find loopholes doesn't exactly make you look good. There's a rule. it is not a new rule by any means. We expect users to follow it.
In that case, it'd come primarily down to moderator discretion, and if I was handling the report I'd ask you to delete the chapter since it's pretty obviously skirting the rules. Best answer I can give.
1371829 With all due respect, I think the people handling story approvals probably have a bit more of an idea what is and isn't a problem with the submissions. You don't see these chapters very often because awesome people like Meeester stop them from getting onto the site. Meanwhile, as he clears literally dozens of stories per day, he's practically drowning in these things. Hence, sitepost.
Or, how about the blog system can email someome who faved a story IF they ticked emails AND if the person writing the blog also tagged it for that story.
Speaking of the update box... I think it needs more slots. So much tends to update all at once.
Understood.
I've gotten the experience that people don't read blogposts. I've tagged my stories on my blogposts several times, and despite hundreds of followers on my story I only get ~20 views on my blog.
That is why I used a small chapter to announce the hiatus of my story, as I know how much I hate to just find out by coincidence, and knowing that they won't read my blog to find out.
Aside from that, I can see the problem and will try to remember it for future reference
Get a way so that chapters as they are now can be divided into story and appendicies to differentiate between actual story content and sequel links/acknowledgements/FAQs etc.. Story chapters count towords total word count and feature boxing, appendicies don't.
Problem Solved (in theory)
1371844
I've posted sequel announcements as individual chapters twice in the past. In neither case has the older story entered the feature box.
Man, you know what was a good show? Firefly. Wanna hear my favorite Serenity quote? Even though it has nothing to do with this particular discussion?
1371840>>1371831 simple solution.
Add a link at the end of your last real chapter either in the author's notes that directs readers to the Blog post that explains everything.
Just as Eldorado explained. 1371785>>1371828
1371873 Feature box is not the only issue. Read my comment again. It artificially inflates the story's word count and bumps the story to gather more attention. If the story is famous enough, it can become featured. I'm sorry if you've not managed to do this with your stories, but it is still just one side of a multifaceted issue.
Let me be clear. You may not post non-story chapters as part of the story, in order to announce sequels or other news. None whatsoever. There are no loopholes or exploits. If we think you're circumventing the rules, then we'll take action on it.
I do like it when stories use their description to link to a sequel, but if I've favorited a story, I don't get any kind of notice when the story description changes. So, if I want to know when a sequel to one of my favorite stories comes out, how exactly can I do that? ("follow the author" isn't always the right answer; just because I want to see a potential sequel to a particular story doesn't mean I want to see everything from that author.)
There now needs to be a better way to make story announcements because not everyone follows every author of every story they favorite and not everyone reads every or any blog post(s.)
How about a "Make Story Announcement" button on the story update page that will put an update in users' favorite boxes that shows that an announcement has been made and the announcement does not contribute to a stories popularity at all? Everyone who has favorited the story will see the update and it will not inflate the stories wordcount/popularity.
See, if lots of people are currently making these kinds of chapters instead of using blogs, this is a sign that the blog system is not meeting the needs of your users. The solution here is to find some way to let authors do this kind of thing without bumping the feature box, instead of insisting that people use the site in an inferior way.
1371895
These are stories with 3000+ favorites. It increased the word count from approximately 50,000 to 50,020.
This new rule (and it is new) is both:
1) Stupid, and
2) Irrelevant. Users will find a new way to promote their stories. One which leads to fewer of their fans finding the stories they want to read, which I can only conclude is your goal.
1371838
1.) To constantly check the stories on my "watch list"? If I have to babysit my watchlist, then what the hell do I keep a watchlist for? Your solution is a nonsolution because it's specifically asking me to do something which the watxhlist should not have me doing. Like taking the guns away from policemen to prevent the rare accidental shooting. It just doesn't make sense.
2.) you are missing point. If I have a feature that tells me updates of the story, how exactly is telling me that something important to be updated about can only be known if I actively go dig when there are 25 other stories, work, university, kids, and many more important but trying to see "oh, Gardez hasn't died and taken the story with him, it just so happens he still writing it and will let us know if he will ever do it" for the fifth time in two weeks. Eventually, you just rely upon the updates to let you know what's happening with a story because that's it's purpose. Telling me the solution is act like it wasn't there is just dumb at the politest situations, and worse in all others.
3.) i follow author all the time. Then soon remove them becusse, surprisingly, they talk about bollocks. Actual bollocks, at timea,mbut most of the time it's unrelated bullshit only they care about and I, as a reader, don't. Even those that do write only related stuff very soon find themselves unwatched because I am not here to read about them, I'm here to read of their stories and, if they produce enough good material, follow them to see what new thing they bring up. So no, watching them and how much I like their story has nothing to do with it, much less the drama normally brought by the hiatus, cancellation, and general wankery people show here.
4.) the keyword is occasionally, and the only place it matters is that top bar, otherwise I don't care if half the site does it, because if they don't get more often than occasionally then it's not a big problem for something many readers find useful for a problem whose consequences are more hypothetical than anything, and if a story whose simple status update brings it more attention than another one, I assure most people would have rathered see the update (as proven their stories are there, while actually less deserving stories aren't).
So, no, I don't see how your "act like it wasn't there because we are trying to solve a rare problem" proposal isn't anything but annoyance.
1371905 It's not a new rule.
1371907
Oh, hey! Awesome! Thanks so much for deleting several chapters of my stories that had been up for months. That's the best decision you could possibly have made for dealing with the fact that I failed to immediately give you all full-throated approval for your arbitrary decision! No, please, don't explain your actions. This way is much better!
1371907
Oh, so the giant notice with whole new regulations and the fact it doesn't appear in the FAQ are extraneous details which make this exist just for your attention grabbing needs?