The Writer's Toolkit: What can I do with this one? · 11:10pm Sep 16th, 2013
Part of the reason for this post is to share this cool youtube video on the original pronunciation of Shakespeare. You don't have to watch it to read the rest of this, but if you're a history geek, or a language geek, or enjoy Shakespeare, it's kind of interesting.
Now, in the last minute of that video, I picked up a writing tool.
One of the linguists, Ben Crystal, is talking about some of the other ways that preforming Shakespeare as close to the original productions as possible changes the meanings of the plays. He mentions that, in trying to do this, the Globe Theater lights the entire theater, including the audience, because Shakespeare's plays would have been performed in afternoon sunlight. But the actors being able to see the audience changes the monologues. When there are monologues that are delivered to the audience, the actor can make eye contact, so the questions are being directed from the character to you, the audience. "To be, or not to be?" What do you guys think? You, there, with the black t-shit?
So, what does this have to do with writing?
Well, it happens that right now I'm working on another first person, present tense fic, from Rainbow Dash's POV. One thing I have to watch myself for is "you," when you have a narrator with casual speech patterns like Dash, it's easy to slip in phrases like "I don't mind, I just want it to be a little less... you know, boring." or "I know they're trying, but they're just kids, so what are ya' gonna do?"
Now, it's easy to cut those out when I find them. They're just speech pattern, and not important in any way. And, for those of you who don't know, using "you" in narration is supposed to be somewhere between bad writing and out of style; similar to addressing the "dear reader." It's part of show, don't tell-- modern readers are supposed to want to imagine they're in the books, rather than reading them, to get the full experience.
But now I'm thinking, on a more philosophical level, what if Dash is narrating this to you, the reader? What if she's telling you, and occasionally asking you in a rhetorical kind of way, about the stuff she's going through? Can I make her monologues more directly address her issues in an interesting and engaging way if you really feel like Dash is trying to talk out her problems with you? Can I (as a writer at my skill level) get that across?
I haven't done it yet, I'm still playing with the idea. But I think it's worth playing with, and I'm asking readers and writers out there what you think of this little trick. Is it worth playing with? Can it bring something new to the table?
It works out great. Including the audience is like old-style detective noir movies, where the action pauses to address the person viewing it, or when Ferris Bueller talks to you in Ferris Bueller's day off. It can be an awesome way to tell a story. Go for it, pal.
I sometimes do it, mostly because I'm not experienced enough to catch it before the story goes out. I don't see the problem, though. If it works for you and your story, by all means, do it.
I think that might be a problem right there. Present tense + addressing the reader = broken suspension of disbelief, at least that's the worry.
If, however, you were to write it like Dash is telling the story after the fact, than you can use the second person in a more conversational tone; you could write it like she's across the table at a pub telling you all about the time she
totally won over Applejack and made her her marewhatever strange thing you're having Rainbow Dash do. Rainbow dash might come across as a bit more literary than usual, but she has been reading all those adventure novels, maybe something wore off?If it's present tense, though, she would sound a little weird talking to herself and addressing herself in the second person. Even the Great and Powerful Trixie isn't that odd.
I could be wrong, and we're both worrying about nothing and the whole thing sounds completely natural either way.
I think its perfectly legit to use constructions like "you know" even in a normal first person story. And I don;t see why there'd be any problem in extending that.
"Using "you" in narration is supposed to be somewhere between bad writing and out of style" looks like one of those silly modern rules literary gatekeeps come up with just for the sake of having rules, really.
1354864
You've never thought to yourself "You know, this site would be better if..."?
Rewatched the video: the accent sounds a lot more Celtic and Germanic; Scottishy, if you will. Now I wonder where the softer drawl of RP comes from, or if that's a mere natural linguistic shift...
1354864
And, more to the point, what I asking here is: Is suspension of disbelief necessary? 1354847 pointed out Ferris Bueller's Day Off... suspension of disbelief is broken freely. Ferris talks to us. And it works, because Ferris is the kind of person who would imagine an audience for himself. As is Rainbow Dash.
I think that with Rainbow Dash specifically, you have a lot of potential greatness from experimenting with this.
Some of the most entertaining stuff with Dash in third person narration is when her point of view invades the prose (ie: She coughed and looked away; Rainbow Dash was WAY too cool to blush over a kiss). I think her personality is in your face enough that her engaging the reader like that would be a blast to read.
I've read stories in the first person perspective, and heard many stories in this perspective, where the person telling the story was talking to the audience, more or less.
I think it is very much possible to do. I also think that it greatly changes the nature and tone of the work.
1354870 Never? well, I did just now...
There's a reason for the old rule, though. It's actually a strange construction, in one's head, unless you're writing up an inner dialogue. I lecture to no audience in my mind normally. The idea is for the reader to forget that they're reading a book, remember? Much like third person limited has become almost default perspective, getting away from a "total immersion experience" is something to be done carefully. It's not to say you couldn't write an epistolary novel (so longs as your fictional correspondents aren't the dreadful bores Bram Stoker wrote about), but expect such a story to turn off readers simply by being different; and expect to make mistakes in the style as it's most likely one you're not nearly as familiar with.
But you're pretty good; you could pull it off.
1354881 If we're creating a context where we freely admit that Dash is speaking, directly to the audience, then, well, like she's telling the story. Unreliable narration, speech patterns, odd tangents and all. I'd read it.
I understand the gist of the blog but I'm a little confused by this particular statement. Whether being first person (Dash POV) or third person, you're referring to an affectation of Dash's, and she's clearly speaking to another pony. Why would it matter, in either case, that you are using this phrasing when it's part of her actual character?
Pardon me for being dense, if that is the case...
I'm always a proponent for expanding your writer's repertoire. I think it would be a very suitable tool to utilize with Dash. She is the ultimate in laid back casual--it would make sense for a story starring her to be a little casual with the narration.
OH HELL YEAH! Now I wanna go find a Shakespearean production done in OP.
BP, you have turned OP from being a faggot, to being FREAKING AWESOME!
This has just encouraged me to study Old Gaelic, so that I might redo Luna's lines in that dialect.
1354911
Well, in the story she's not clearly speaking to another pony, it's narration.
The (modern) idea is that narration is supposed to disappear for a reader, they aren't supposed to notice it, they're supposed to be building the scene in their mind as it's happening. So, you're suspending disbelief (WolfeTrax is not reading a fanfic about Rainbow Dash, Rainbow Dash is doing these things.)
When you use the word "you," it's supposed to pull you out of it. Who is you? WolfeTrax? Why is Dash talking to WolfeTrax? Why is she asking if you know? What if you don't know?
Now, all of this supposes that you're pretending that you're not reading a fanfic about Rainbow Dash. But if the writer, and therefore Dash, are willing to acknowledge that there's someone reading this (a "you" for her to be talking to) is that going to make the story worse, or just different?
1354925
That is totally useful (and I have got to read that fic of yours.)
Do you have any opinions on first person present tense? Theoretically, as jmartkdr pointed out, the narration is in Dash's head, therefore acknowledging an audience wouldn't make sense. But if you're not worrying about suspending disbelief, like Shakespreare or Ferris Buller's Day Off, is that a bad thing, or just different?
I don't know about anything else, but I have to go and see one of these plays now.
Anyway... first person stories, at least in my mind, work better when the character is giving asides and details to the reader as if they're relating a story directly rather than just narrating. It feels more natural. At least for some characters.
1354922 Thanks very much for clarifying that! I apparently missed the narration reference in the following paragraph...
Either way, though, I personally think it would work, and I feel like it can automatically be forgiven in part for the reasons you describe, but also because of the realization that the affectation is expected of Dash, especially retroactively. In the end I suppose I'd have to see the written story to make a real judgement, but to me it seems that much more fun and (I think) clever to keep her dialogue in character in this setting.
Best typo ever. Just saying.
Also, I suppose it depends on the kind of reader as well as plot. Something drama-heavy would work better with such direct communication than something action-heavy - it comes down to what the main form of conveyance is, be it description or engagement. That also depends on how readers see this - some see drama as played out rather than happening around them (different kinds of participation), and vice versa.
I think that The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn uses "you" brilliantly and engagingly. Definitely give it a try!
The main character of The Perks of Being a Wallflower addressed "you" fairly often throughout the story. The whole idea of the book is that it's a series of letters that he writes to "you."
I think you could pull it off. It would give the story a new perspective, and as people have already said, Dash does seem like the kind of character it would work with.
I distinctly remember having to write an essay about that once. I called it... ugh, I can't remember. *looks for essay* Ah, here it is. I referred to it as an example of the "Abject" in literature (which probably isn't correct, about 80% of Powers of Horror went right over my head). *skims through essay* There's something here about using directly speaking to the audience as a way to implicate the audience, and draw them into the story on a more personal level by breaking down the barrier between narrative and audience. Something about making them an active participant in the events being portrayed on screen/in text. And something about "The boundary is broken away, and the audience loses itself in the darkness of a world outside themselves."
I cited Jesus' Son by Denis Johnson a lot. It's a small short story collection worth reading, especially if you're interested in seeing creative uses of this.
The point seems to be to do it very selectively, as opposed to doing it constantly throughout the entire work, to abruptly jar the readers into taking a more active role in the story. Seems like it could work well in horror, if you used it right.
Well if you put it that way: Just different. I personally like the idea of a short story told in the form of Dash narrating the tale to you (the reader/listener) over some ciders. Especially if you can make it clear in the narration that she's fudging the facts to make herself look good.