CadenceVerse: A question for readers. · 1:15pm Jun 27th, 2013
Hello there, i'm afraid there's no proper C!Verse post today; but instead I have a question for all of you (i'm not sure doing a blog post on it was appropriate, but doing it through PM, would have been messy and rude as would have been responding to comments on a different post). Regardless, all of you have been kind enough to show an interest in my work on the C!verse and I greatly appreciate every comment; so I want to say that, yes, I am writing and i'd like to think it's going well.
But, I've hit a stumbling block and i'd like to hear some other peoples thoughts on the matter. I am seriously considering revising, one or two of the Elements of Harmony (this is what slowed down my writing to a snails pace)
Quick Fix/Epona &/or Sandy/Mjolna. I really like both these character, but I do feel that despite y intention of separating their personalities i'm not doing it as well as i'd like. In theory I can keep them separate and distinctive, but theories are treacherous things that can at any moment disintegrate like a biscuit raft. 
and when writing I realized two things, distinguishing their personalities is one thing; but separating their physical characteristics is another far more difficult thing, that and it sounds repetitive considering their similarities in physical appearance and Cutie Mark.
I also realized that, when trying to write them, their current personalities don't "feel" right and they become inconstant with what I planned and within the story because I can't decide what to do with them.
So I am considering dropping one of them (or even both) to side character status, if it's Quick Fix, she'd become an inventor friend to Mjolna who dreams of flying (this would also stay as part of her character in the series if she stayed and why I am leaning towards her. But even then, beyond that I cant pick much of a personality for her) If Mjolna was dropped she'd be Quick Fixes friend who works as a smith and would probably get an episode about shyness or acceptance or something to that affect. (I'm so unsure of what to do with her!) 
which is a shame because I like my ideas for her, but I can't get them to gel.
My current considerations for replacements are Nurse Redheart, a tough nurse when on duty, but caring, who can maybe be more shy in tsundere way outside of work. Or, maybe, Octavia, her fanon persona would probably fit; i'd considered her before And also, naturally, Vynle Scratch. who's fanon persona would also fit. But i'm undecided on personalities and would love to hear some suggestions and ideas from other people; so please feel free to go nuts, as i'm drawing something of a blank at the moment and it's crippling my creativity. :(
Additionally, I've hit a smaller but no less annoying stumbling block with Sparkler (also something of a tsundere, now that I think of it, just a more laid back and snarky one. 
) I can't quite decide on her background which is kind of important, especially for her Cutie Mark/family. I initially planned to follow L!verse, but that doesn't feel very classy and while it works well there i'm not sure it;s what I necessarily want to do with her. I intend her to be very kind to foals and animals and to generally expect a lot form adults. So maybe her parents were irresponsible/too busy for her? Her mark is, as it stands, tied to gem related spells and magic and she combines that by specializing in conjuring. So any thoughts for her background/Cutie Mark story would be awesome!
I've more or less picked how she will meet Lightning Dust, initially she was to be sent with her, much like Lyra in L!verse, but then I thought of Sparkler already living in Everfree city and the two meeting as normal. But then I decided to combine them; Sparkler lives and works in Everfree city as a a magical researcher, on everfeee, mining ETC; she doubles up this works with foal sitting and a bit of tutoring, because she enjoys the work. foalsitting because she enjoys it. She was a high graduate and a student Cadence sponsored and was asked by Cadence to use her magical skills and knowledge to aid LD in her mission to Everfree City.
So any thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated, I think hearing some other peoples thoughts would be very useful for the creative process. I'm sorry if it seems like i'm begging for ideas, or if this was bothersome.
Wow. Pretty much what I planned for my Sparkler!
Ok, the best way to figure out a pony's personality is to try and put them in different situations. Imagine how they would react, and that fleshes them out- heck, that's why MLP has so many episodes! For Quick Fix and Mjolna, I think that they are a bit too... I dunno, complex? Because one has a cutie mark with Thor's hammer, and another has gears and stuff. Try doing a new earth pony- say, maybe Berry Punch? That would be a very interesting character to write.
Not surprised you ran into problems with Quick Fix/Epona and Sandy/Mjolna; I was after all the one who originally warned you there might be problems keeping the two of them wholly distinct. I can't say for sure who would be better to keep on there own merits, but really so long as the other is still a supporting cast member (a sort of platonic BonBon) nothing much is lost regardless of who gets demoted.
What I can say about your potential replacement choices is that using either Octavia or Vinyl would invariably draw comparisons to G&C2's C!verse (you might need to come up with an alt-name for your C!verse just to avoid confusion anyway). So, I guess that means I'd have to recommend demoting Sandy/Mjolna and replacing her with Redheart.
...
Now on the subject of Sparkler. If you really prefer to have her already living in Everfree City then maybe that's what you should do. Personally though, I'm still rather fond of the setup where she is Cadance's apprentice and the one sent to oversee whatever festival (setting her up as a sort of redharing counterpart to M!Twi/L!Trix), while Lighting Dust is instead just a guard pony sent to escort her. Still, I'm not the one writing this, so I don't necessarily have the full context to make such a call.
...
Anyway, should you EVER feel like talking about this anymore, ALWAYS feel free to drop me a line.
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That's more than fair, she only has so many scenes in the show and she's usually seen with kids or was the leader of the animal caretaker team, so kindness just seemed to suit her really well.
What you described is pretty much how I write stories, I dump a character into a situation and see what happens, it generally works really well and is very organic and fun. But in this case I just sort of fumble with them and then come to a grinding halt. Still I will considering maybe trying some shorts with just them (or others) as practice.
TY for the suggestion, I did consider Berry Punch but sadly for her, I picked Strawberry Sunshine as a cast member and their marks are too similar for them to really share the spot light. I have considered pasting Sunshine's persona onto Berry's but, I don't really think that would work and i'm rather attached to Sunshine thanks regardless!
1171582
(Lyra/Bonbon) is pretty much what I would intend, regardless of who would be demoted; or if both ere demoted, probably creating a Lyra/Bonbon thing the background with some Lenny and Karl thrown in for fun. But i'd like to keep one.
Yeah, you totally called this one, to be fair, it wasn't just the similarities that got me (paper thin defense)
I did consider the comparisons and that does worry me a bit. I'm not sure i'll be changing the name though as I started this project quite a while back and I can't think of a good name anyway.
though if there's one thing G&C2's fic proves it's that talents can be shared amongst the cast. But still I will be changing things, probably. Red Heart is definitely a contender and there's a good reason for her to go along on the initial adventure as well and I can have them set up to meet fairly easily. I am still struggling with the personality (i'm thinking, as I said tsundere, but also with a bit of exhausted/overworked nurse to it as well; very loyal to her patients... or generous, the elements may need to be swapped a bit as well depending.) though and i'll admit to missing Mjolna. Regardless thank you for your thoughts on the matter, if you have any other ideas for Red Heart, I would love to hear them!
I don't intend to change much of her history, it was mostly just choosing where she was living when introduced to LD and how. As it is I wouldn't say I prefer her living moving to Everfree after graduating Cadence's school for gifted unicorns; but I like it just as much as her living in Canterlot as a student & it feels different to the L!verse and gives her an established life/job for me to pull from. I still can't decide on a Cutie Mark/parent background for her though which is frustrating because I really need to nail that down soon.
I do very much like your suggestion, but i'm afraid I've grown very attached to LD and Cadence. So while I do love some of the ideas it has given me, I think i'll stick with the current set up. (even if Cadence and Sparkler are very photogenic together) Thank you for the thought regardless... also, how would you describe her voice in the show, I have been wracking my head for a descriptive term, but I just cannot describe it.
Thank you, I really appreciate that and it means a lot. I will keep it in mind and if you ever have a problem, feel free to drop me a line as well.
I'm not sure I'd take G&C2's C!verse as a good example of ponies sharing talents since all the cast are ostensibly musicians. Well, Fluttershy is still technically an animal specialist, and Medley... well I've not quite figured her out yet, but it is the musical application of their talents that the verse emphasizes upon. Point being when ALL of the cast share the same talent, then that talent fades into the background and the audience can ore clearly focus on their distinctive sub-talents/specialties. Whereas, if only TWO ponies share a talent then the overlap just stands out all the more so and can lead to one or the other character feeling redundant.
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Anyway, on the subject of elements...
--Film Reel and her journalistic integrity still seems like too good a twist on the trait honesty to pass up, though it wouldn't be to hard to tweak her as loyalty instead.
--Strawberry Sunrise makes an entertaining laughter, but could probably be tweaked for generosity, if shuffling was needed.
--Sparkler works fine as kindness, but if perusing the foalsitter angle laughter could also be a good fit, while if emphasizing her as a student of Cadance (an angle that I will continue to push for, not that I'm trying to be PUSHY) loyalty might be a better fit. I could even see ways to spin her as generosity. Really she seems like the biggest wild card of the group, so maybe save any final decisions on her based on what the rest of the group necessitates her to be.
--RedHeart is still being developed her, so likewise could be morphed to fill almost any role. She might help might be loyal in her medical duties, kindheartedly generous, or maybe she just makes her patients laugh to ease there pain.
--Quickfix is perhaps the only pony that could steal honesty away from Film Reel, with the idea being that her dedication to achieving personal flight is a form of self-honesty, that despite being born a unicorn she has always felt like a pegasus inside.
Really though, of course, any good and righteous pony would almost by shear necessity need to be able to exhibit any/all of the harmonic qualities to some degree. Just by way of example, I could easily define an alternate take on Pinkie Pie where she was generosity/kindness because of all the time she dedicates to helping others, or loyalty because of how she never gives up trying to help, or even as honesty because of how seriously she take her promises while expecting/enforcing the same in others. What it all comes down to is the quality that is chosen to have the most emphasis placed on it.
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On the subject of Lightning Dust (promise again, I'm not trying to be pushy here), I know you've grown fond of the whole close relationship between her and Cadance, but I hope you are keeping in mind what is best both for the character and the narrative as well. You don't want any fondness getting in the way of the narrative journey as LD discovers the magic of friendship. Likewise, you don't want the relationship with Cadance to overshadow any allusions to M!canon LD; this might be an alt-verse, but you also don't want her ever coming across as LD in name only, sharing nothing with here M!self.
Still, your verse, so ultimately your choices to make.
Hmm...
I'd advise keeping Mjolna of the two, personally. And yeah, Emeral raises a good point with Vinyl Scratch/Octavia, so you'd probably want to go with Redheart.
As for Sparkler...I like her as already living in Everfree, yeah.
1171749 Wow. I actually made my Sparkler laughter.
Heh, right now I'm just really working on the story. LOTS of changes have to be made, like LOTS LOTS LOTS.
1171598 I'd say dump a character if you cannot figure it out, but come out with a few traits- say, loyal, friendly, lazy (yes loyal and lazy like RD). Then expand on those traits, by saying when (and why?) the character is that trait. Hope this helps.
Huh, kinda surprised that they're so similar when you write them, because the fanon (wow, stories not even written and I'm already thinking of them differently...) interpretations I had weren't very similar to each other, but then again they're probably not very similar to your ideas either, so yeah
I don't think that Vinyle fits the more victorian steampunk-ish feel you've got going with her modern techno stuff, but the nurse or Octavia could fit.
1171749
You make an excellent point about the musicians and their respective talents and personality differences.
In regards to the Elements, very interesting observations, i'll definitely have to keep them in mind.
As it stands I had/have no intention of changing Film Reels element. Though you do make a good point about loyalty.
On Sunrise (I keep typing sunshine by accident) I do agree that she could make a good generosity, but I felt that might be a bit close to Rarity; as both are fairly classy and want success out of life and the respect of the highest class. Granted they do it fairly differently, but I felt with those similarities tying their Elements together might be a bit much.
As for Sparkler, it's fair you still like the idea and feel free to keep suggesting, I don't think I will change but I can see your point. On her Element, I did initially plan on her being loyalty, which could still be a thing and generosity is an angle I hadn't considered until now; but as it stands I am fairly comfortable with her being kindness. Thank you regardless
Now I just need a Cutie Mark story and her parents. 
RedHeart is definitely a wild card at the moment, I feel all those suggestions could work, loyalty is probably the most likely. I feel it suits her protective nature around her patient (from what little we've seen) and would also explain her desire to accompany the others on the initial quest. Still Kind/Generous can work very well as well,
Interesting idea for Quick Fix, though I don't exactly plan on her being a pegasus on the inside, though she would love to have wings, she loves being a unicorn, but also enjoys flying just as much. Sort of like how Twilights talent is magic but she loves organizing and reading stuff unrelated to magic. Still I can definitely take that sort of thinking under advisement.
I'll reveal this now as it will likely be a long ways away before I get to this story; but her generosity/loyalty is demonstrated when she offers to let the other cast members use her home built "yacht" that flies; she ends up sacrificing it for the mission despite how much it meant to her, which proves her Element.
Excellent point, I shouldn't focus too much on just their elements as defining characteristics.
As for LD, I will definitely keep your thoughts in mind; i'm not sure LD being Cadence's apprentice would affect her ability to learn about friendship. hmm on the allusions, you do make a good point, i'm not sure that would be Cadence's fault, but I do need to remember LDs arrogance/smugness more in the writing.
Thanks for putting that in my mind as well as the other great comments!
1171755
Thanks for the comment! I would like to keep Mjolna, sadly she's also the one i'm struggling with more, both in terms of use and trying to set up her life and background in C!verse. Yeah those were good point and I don't think i'd be able to utilize either of them terribly well either.
Thanks! I'm glad you like her living in Everfree.
Now if I could just pick an origin story for her. 
TY for the comment!
1172298
Best of luck with your own changes, i'll be very interested top see Sparkler and the other cast members.
1172305
Thank you i'll keep that advice in mind it seems very useful!
1173098 Heh, I'm nearing the Everfree challenges in my editing. Like, SUPER close. But I was just throwing out something I did once to figure out a character. Good luck!
1172452
thank you! that means a lot. Fair point about Viynl... now i'm imagine a steam punk DJ, stupid brain. thank you for the comments I really appreciate it!
My actual plans for their personalities were quite separate, with Quick Fix being friendly, helpful and quiet, and Mjolna as bouncing between boisterous and serious.
Wow you already have fanon for this verse,
1173104
Wow you're writing fast, I can't wait to see it, best of luck with Everfree!
1173118 Heh. I actually finished the whole bulk and idea of it months ago. Now I'm working on some finishing touches and thrusting it out to the crowd.
1173124
I hope it goes well.
I wish I was so productive!
1173140 I hope it will. I PMed you it.
Twice, actually
1173147
Laters!
I'll give it a read soon, thank you, I would do it now, but I have an appointment I have to leave for in... 7 minutes. and I have yet to prepare lunch.
1173159 Lunch? It's, like, 9:00 here in New England!
1173088
Cheer up about dropping Mjolna (or Quick Fix). After all you aren't dumping her entirely; she just won't be one of the front and center heroes, but can still be an important member of the cast in a supporting role.
Heck, heroics aren't even out of the question. Spike is no Element of Harmony, but even got to be the one who played a vital role in saving the Crystal Empire on the show. He'd also have done a pretty good job helping to save Rarity from the Diamond Dogs, if she hadn't already saved herself.
Cadnace's actual student and the red-herring for the audience to think is Element of Magic. Sorry, I'm incorrigible sometimes.
Anyway, I'm not sure you need to stress yourself about hammering out all the exact details of her childhood biography. What you need to focus most on is who she is in the here-and-now. Just start writing her and let things become retroactively true along the way. Consider the development of Cheerilee's colorful past over in the Luniverse, which wasn't really part LNLD, but evolved as further stories went along. Don't be afraid to just go in partially blind and let things surprise you. Sometimes the greatest joy an author can have is that moment of realization when you discover something new about your character or setting, something that wasn't there before, but which now that you see it, you know it to have been somehow true all along.
1173161
It was morning here in Australia
1173376
That's true but I feel guilty about doing it, plus I worry it will be the wrong decision and all sort of other things will forever niggle at me, regardless of what decision I make. Still I will try to keep that in mind.
Fair point and whichever one got demoted I would like to keep around as the inventor/blacksmith for the crew.
That's very good advice, and I will try to definitely like to take it on board. It's hard, as I love everything being planned out in perfect order in advance. Still I think I came up with a compromise anyway. To simply not have her parents involved in her Cutie Mark story; that way I can figure out her family life and the rest of her background later.
As it stands i'm thinking that she has a special piece of jewelry, likely bought with her own money, or maybe a gift (possibly, borrowed form a parent) some bully's take it and she manages to summon it back. I'll admit it's a bit wobbly, but I might be able to do something with it.
Your thoughts?
Oh and sorry but I have to ask again, do you know a term for describing her voice as it is heard in the show, because I am drawing a blank. I have one or two ideas, but neither really work, or generally carry unfortunate implications.
Thanks for all the comments and discussion so far, I really appreciate this.
1174060
I know a thing or to about trying to get all the details PERFECT before undertaking a project; it's why a lot of my projects never get off the ground or fail to go anywhere productive. My advice (which I need to remember to head more myself) just keep it in perspective, and always remember that no matter how terrible, flawed, or incomplete it might see to you, most of your potential readers will probably never notice the difference. Plus no matter how hard you try, you can NEVER actually get everything perfect, so at some point you just have to start winging it and hope for the best.
Anyway, not sure I really have the context needed to understand the signifgance of Sparkler and this piece of jewelry your connecting to her. As to her voice though, does it really matter if you have a word to describe it with? I'm not sure I understand what difference that makes here.
1174070
That's good advice ii'll definitively have to keep it in mind when writing, thank you.
As for the context, Sparklers cutie mark in jewelry, so i'm thinking when it comes to magic her (natural/Cutie Mark) spells relate primarily to gems in some way or another. While her area of studied expertise is in conjuring. Along with combining the two. I could do something with her in a mine or looking for a present and her magic helping her find a gem, but that feels a bit close to Rarity.
As for the voice, it's mostly that I don't really like the words I have considered for her voice and i'm not sure they work either, I've never heard a voice like that before.
I love that scene!
Still not really sure what your getting at. Her emotive tone in that scene is sarcastic, exasperated, and annoyed. That doesn't seem to be what your driving at though, but rather that you want a word to describe her voice itself, and I'm not really sure how to do that or why it should matter.
I mean, can you describe any of the M6's voices in just a single word? I know I sure can't.
...
As for her talent, yeah, if it's just finding gems that might be to much like Rarity. Magic involving gems would most likely ether be enchantment based (that is the creation of semi-permanent effects that a pony can access by wearing the jewelry she crafts) or illusory (involving the refraction of light through the facets of the gems). Still, since she's not your Element of Magic, not even as a fake-out (
), how important is her magic to her basic character. Sure, she is a unicorn and all, but so is M!Rarity and L!Lyra, but there magic is more so just an incidental quality that the just use to enhance there respective crafts rather then define them.
1174084
Sorry, I tend to like having a word to describe the sound of a persons voice, such as gravely, or deep ETC. But in this case I can't think of one. Good point about the M!g now that I think of it.
As for her magic, I do intend her to have completed a scholarship at the school for gifted unicorns and to have done fairly well there. Interesting suggestions for gem related magic, as it was I planned on her being able to conjure gem constructs (shields, mirrors ETC) but I wasn't sure how much farther I could take that, or where it would go... she is an avid hobby geologist and it bored her friends to death, that is now a thing.
I very much like your suggestions as well, and they can really stretch out the abilities of her magic for me, so I will try to use them as well TY!
As for her magic's importance, it's partially because I intended her magic, her cutie mark and gems to be connected to one another, which I leaves me feeling that how they tie in together is very important... I think I have thought of something.
So, as a filly she found a really pretty, but rugged gem, she spent weeks using her magic to craft it into shape and made a necklace out of it, a little present for herself, or maybe a friends birthday or something? Much like I said earlier it gets taken by some bullies, but thanks to all the magi she poured into it, she managed to summon it back and magically clean it up in the process. Naturally this would need more padding.
1174116 ...that is very similar to my rough idea of her talent. I thought about making her talent cutting and polishing gems, which she has fitted into necklaces. Rarity is a rival, so I can use that for an episode concept.
Also. I have a Minecraft friend who lives in Austrailia. His name is metazard. 
1174116
The cutie mark story might need more padding if you wanted to expand it into it's own stand-alone fic, but as just a minor detail to be off-handedly mentioned in a larger fic, it's probably good to go. anything more that is needed will likely best come up in the process of writing the relevant scene.
See, didn't I tell you that sometimes the best stuff isn't what you plan for in advance, but what comes up at the spur of the moment. Granted this is all still technically the planning stages, but I still feel I've made my point. If you just let things flow and develop naturally, the characters will be the ones who tell you everything you need to know.
1174122
heh sorry about that, even if the talent ideas are similar, I intend for her to be a tutor/researcher so she won't have too much in common with your version, probably. I'm afraid I don't know anyone named Metazard. ah well, hows New England?
1174123
I agree it is good to let things develop naturally, that's how the Crystal Pony post came about and that's one of my favorites! Thanks for the great conversation. I really appreciate it.
Good point about her Cutie Mark story.
1174172 Nah. I said you could borrow any ideas in my story if you like.
Also, his Minecraft username is metazard. Not his real name! 
1174188
Actually, I haven't read your story yet, sorry, thank you for the offer though I really appreciate it! I've been cooking cleaning and had a very long talk about some work stuff so beyond chatting I haven't been able to read an actual story yet! 
Still I should be free for the rest of the night so i'm going to read your story and power through crisis, I may need a cup of Joe... if I drank coffee. I know I meant not anyone online. 
1174221 Still, the offer stands. You can keep Sparkler similar to mine if you want to.
1174224
I will keep that in mind, thank you!
1174316. You're welcome.
Also I love using AJ smug.
1171755
I recall you mentioning you liked Mjolna before, I'm a little curious, what is it about her you like? Sorry i'm still debating things in my mind, as it stands Mjolna, might be losing out and i'd really like to hear your thoughts on her. Sorry for bothering you with this.
1175933
It...might just be her name. I like the "J is Y" sound.
1175965
TY for the fast response!
That's understandable I also really like her name, it just sounds awesome. Though sadly that doesn't give me much to go off in terms of character. I'll keep thinking/planning/writing, I hope.