Rant Blog: Comment Deletion · 4:32pm Mar 29th, 2013
This is a rant blog, feel free to ignore it.
Earlier this week, I read a featured story that ... well, was fairly bad in my opinion. I'm not going to name it nor the author because despite everything, I still have some respect for him. Also, I don't want a 'personal army' so to speak. But there is a chance you read it as well. This blog isn't about that story - I said everything I wanted to say in a comment on that story. This blog is about what the author chose to do about my comment. He didn't respond to it, refuting my claims or opinions. I can deal with that. He didn't rant at me or insult my intelligence. I can deal with that. He did something that is really rather more distasteful to me. He deleted my comment without word.
I've since blocked him.
Now, this may seem rather extreme to some but I think it's warranted. See, I work for a living and that means ten hours of my day revolves around work related things. I have roughly six to ten more hours for personal time depending on how exhausted I want to be the next day. That's not actually a whole lot of time - surprising. So in that time, I can chose to do a great number of things. I can have sex with my wife, I can watch a movie, I can play one of the innumerable games that sit unfinished on my hard drive. I can do a lot of things.
I chose to put my limited time and effort into reading his story. I chose to finish it instead of throwing my hands up in the air in exasperation and disgust. I chose to think about what I read. And I chose to type up a fairly long comment about why I thumbed it down, why I thought it was bad, why I disliked it and things that might have made it better - an attempt to offer what I hoped was assistance to another author. I spent my time doing that when I could have or should have been doing something else. There's a very important word here though: chose. I chose this so it's on me that this happened. It's not really about the time as much as it is about respect.
When he deleted my comment, that was essentially him telling me to shut up. He didn't care enough about my opinion to keep it. He didn't respect me as a reader. I strive - very hard - to respect my readers. I might not agree with them all. I might think some of their opinions are ill-formed, illogical and poor. But I try to respect them regardless. When someone posts on one of my stories that 'This story is shit' or 'Fuck this story' with no reasons given, no attempts to verbalize why they dislike what I write - in essence, with no constructive criticism and only insults, I still leave their comments up because I respect them. I respect the time they gave me to read what I wrote, I respect the effort they put in to write a comment (even one as pathetic as 'Fuck this story.'), I respect their right to have an opinion different than my own.
But the coders of this site gave us the option of deleting comments from our own stories. As a writer myself - amateur though I may be - I know how tempting it is to 'trim' your comment section. How tempting it is to delete comments you don't like or you feel don't do justice to your story. But I very much doubt that's why that button was put up. I think it was an attempt to prevent aggressive and hateful speech, to prevent flame wars and to give the community an opportunity to self-govern. I very, very rarely will delete comments if they are hateful or a flame war because I see the delete button as an option of last resort. Why have a comments section at all if you only allow excessively positive comments (hugboxing)? How will you improve as a writer if you don't listen to what you do wrong?
Perhaps that's where this author and I differ in our understanding of this site. Perhaps - to him - this is just a place to show off. He doesn't want to get better, doesn't care about improving. All he wants is a place to strut. I see this as a community and a feedback site. I want to know why you hit that thumb-down on that story just as much as I'd love a reason you hit the thumb-up. What didn't you like? What did you think was poorly done? Do you have any advice on how to do that better? I don't want a hugbox. I want to be a better writer and that can only happen if you tell me why I suck.
Anyway, that's why I blocked him. I don't want to be his or anyone's hugbox except in real life and only if I get some afterwards. And by some, I mean sex.
What is this... sex you speak of? Is it some sort of recreational activity?
He removed your comment? ! Tragedy! ! !
If, seriously, it isn't necessary to react to trifles so sharply. If the author has the right to remove not the necessary comment - he will make it when it will be necessary. Your comment wasn't necessary to him. Well,pff.... ok.
When there are new chapters of your stories?
Wow.
Just wow.
956281 i believe he speaks of the number six in the swedish language.
but what does he mean by 'get some'? why does he want six? i have not heard of this 'sex'
956293 956298
... wow. Uhm, I'm actually embarrassed now. I realize that this was unnecessary and kinda a little bitchy. My point still stands - this is my opinion of this type of sort of thing. But was it really necessary to type this up and post it?
Yeah, not so much.
I'm going to keep this up because ... well, evidently I am a little bitch so this will be a very good reminder to not be.
956318
What? No! I agree with you!
Guess I just was being too curt.
We all make mistakes it helps us grow...I've had someone point out something wrong in one of my stories and thanked him for helping me fix a mistake...but to delete comments... that try to help you out...is like a kick in the face. It's basically saying you don't care about anyone else's opinions but your own...and that will only damper your abilities as a writer
956322
Yeah, but did I really need to type up ... 7 paragraphs the author will never see about how I think it's wrong to do that sort of thing? Will it change anything, will it affect anything?
Is this, in the grand scheme of things, really a good use of my time on my lunch break? Or should I grow up a bit more, shake my head at the behavior of some people and get on with my life? I suppose it's good to rant every so often but I still feel really childish now. In a bad way, not a good way.
It's a good thing I watch a TV show for children, I still have much to learn about growing up.
956318
You needed to vent, you did.
Anyway, if he doesn't want your help, he doesn't deserve it.
956341
Well, it makes me look at you differently. A good sort of different, too.
Lately, I've been reading your shorter stories, and I see you're no stranger to people starting flame wars over your work. If it helps, you handled it better than I did. You seem to have a higher tolerance for horseshit than I do.
I agree that deletion is a last resort, for when comments reach a certain toxicity level. Unfortunately, the existence of hypersensitive people like the one you mention means that helpful comments should be kept quite short, until you know what sort of person you're dealing with.
...some people refuse to be reminded that they are lacking in something, deluding themselves into thinking that they are good enough, that they can't possibly do something wrong.
...and then they react badly when someone tells them this.
I agree with you.
Minalkra, I think, what you did was a very bad thing to do...
You were not harsh / serious enough! I find comment deletion as the ultimate slap in the face, second only to the permanent site ban (but less than a time ban!). This is the worst kind of censorship that is to be used in extreme situations where all other options were proven to be ineffective.
This is what I would do:
1) send a PM to the person who deleted it, demanding the reason behind the deletion
2) (if ineffective), send PM to one of the site Moderators asking for help.
I had such a problem once but the person responsible was not aware of the seriousness of the matter and was actually certain that such a thing was acceptable. After realizing the mistake, I received an apology that I gladly accepted. Maybe it will be the same in your case?
Freedom of speech is for people who actually have something to say.
I'm going to assume that you had indeed something to say. In that case, you should feel offended.
However, one might also say that the philosophical/literary truth is in the eye of the beholder. Maybe this situation is not so black and white. Maybe he really thought that you didn't have anything constructive to say. That's on him. If he doesn't want to get better, that's his business. Being all high and mighty about some deleted comment isn't going to solve anything.
Also, he didn't waste "your" time because you CHOSE to read _his_ story. If you waste your own time, that's on you. Ultimately, the question of "did I waste my time" is something only you can fulfill and answer. I have no idea where you got this sense of entitlement. You were not forced into anything. You did what you did, why you did, when you did. He just wrote the story. And not specifically for _you_. It's your time to waste. Limited time, and/or listing all sorts of alternate activities is thus incredibly invalid.
The same thing applies to the comment you wrote.
The same thing applies here and now, when I type this out. People always seem self-important, myself included. It's just how the modern western civilization works.
On a side not, how come you're never on Steam?
956344
... makes me wonder how you saw me prior.
956420
Never considered that he may think of this behavior as acceptable, to be honest. Where would that sort of thing ever be acceptable? But perhaps I wasn't giving him enough benefit of the doubt. He didn't delete my second comment, made just after he deleted the first.
956431
See 956341 . Also, the problem I have with it isn't about the wasted time - though I maintain that's a valid complaint. I don't want to waste my time trying to help someone when it's going to be thrown back in my face and would have preferred him to specifically ask for no critiques if this was his intent. But it was more about a lack of respect, lack of courtesy - again, that's my view. Yours might be different. I am an American and have very American views on courtesy, respect and things of that nature.
And I don't really have the time to get on Steam, play games or do much of anything. I write or read when I have the time - that's about it.
956451 Half American. Born and raised. Dad is from Michigan, Mom is from Finland.
Respect was for him to give, and yours to take. In the end, both of you parted with neither. Yet another thing that is in the eye of the beholder.
956465
Respect is a two way street. He chose not to respect my words, I choose to not respect his actions - thus the blog.
956451
You've always been okay in my books. When you dropped that review on Price Of Peace, it was a good day. I don't mean to ramble/brag, but it's gotten better since then.
And 'Oh To Be Old Again' is a hilarious fic. Bruce's a snarky, lovable character. And the deepening plot has intrigued me to no ends.
How dare someone offend the great and powerful Minalkra!!!
Take mahh body~~!!!
956476
Depends on what kind of person you are respecting, I suppose. I respect Caesar, even if he's dead. Obviously he can't respect me back. Would he even? Probably not.
In essence you are correct, though.
I don't want you to think that I'm defending this person. I was just picking away at the things that I found to be fundamentally wrong in the blog post. I'd rather disagree, and reach and impasse, than wholesomely agree and not really state anything worthwhile.
956341 What this guy did was extremely rude and disrespectful, but more than that, it show's evidence of other writers like him out there. A writer should take all kinds of comments, even if they're bad, to help him/her improve themselves and their writing skill. By deleting your comment he chose to stay at the level he's at and not level up.
Your blog post, although it may never reach him, is a reminder to us that we need to listen to these guys because they might be able to help us, and in the long run, the site. We need to improve and adapt or we as a community won't survive if our stories and writing skills don't improve. So, in a way you're doing a really good thing by letting us know what's acceptable. So don't think that you're whining or going over board, we need to hear these cautionary tales to help us. Hopefully it'll lead to even greater stories.
You realize blocking someone only means they can't post comments on your stories or PM you right? You will still see everything they do and stories they post and they can still read yours.
All you've done by blocking them is preemptively delete every comment they could ever make on one of your stories.
Which is why I don't block all the people I dislike on this site. It does NOTHING to help me avoid them. It only helps if they are harassing you directly.
Don't take this the wrong way, cause I understand exactly what you mean, and agree wholeheartedly, but I just got of basic training for easter leave, and the only thing I could think of while reading this, was you saying you got 10 hours of off time. I know this is unrelated, but now that I know what it's like to work 24/7 for 7 weeks, anyone who has any off time at all, annoys me...
I do still agree with your point though.
956509
... I respect that
And I'm also ok with being in disagreement. I thought perhaps it was a cultural thing but maybe it's just differing opinions. I'm often wrong but rarely do I notice. Wait ... no, that's accurate.
956498
Take your body where?
956602
'Do unto others as they do unto you.' It is extremely petty of me, yes. I'm ok with that - if they try to comment on any of my stories and fail, perhaps they'll wonder exactly why I'm blocking them. perhaps they'll stumble here. Perhaps I shouldn't be so passive-aggressive and actually PM the guy my concerns.
Nah, that's too adult!
956637
Oh I don't blame you at all.
Personally I wish that I could block certain users so that I never have to see their comments or stories. The current block system does nothing I need.
956637 - what if I am right and he simply has no idea what he did wrong?
PM the guy and let him explain himself
.
this is one of the things that I hate the most, when people are ass's to those that are trying to help them or if they had the best intentions and such. I tend to just ignore those who do that which is why I have Blunty3000 blocked on youtube after he send a rather nasty message when I was trying to be nice and suggestive.
956637
Minalkra > Pinkie
So funny. <3
Damn it man, you're the hero this website needs. I've read posts from authors outside of here saying how much they wish they had good criticism in the early days of their stories, only to receive nothing but brief "great story!" comments. He said he wished someone had stood up and said his story was bad in certain areas so he could have fixed it, now it's too late and he doesn't think his story is as good as it could have been. Bloody hell, the comment section is for comments! If you don't want negative things then get out of the internet. Whoever updates this site needs to change it so authors can be reported for unfair deletes.
Bloody autists like the guy you're talking about are the reason other people look down on this website.
(It's okay I can use that word)
Well, here's how I see it:
1. You read Anon's story
2. You found the story lacking
3. You wrote a comment describing why (From what I know of you, you seem to be a rather respectable sort. You could be an absolute douche in real life, but I believe that to be unlikely, so I think it likely that what you wrote was constructive from your PoV)
4. Anon found this comment disturbing or offensive or anything
5. Anon exercised his knighty given right to delete your digital criticism
6. You disagreed ethically with that behavior
7. You executed your knighty given right to blog about it
8. I read said blog and skimmed the comments of it
9. I found it all rather trivial
10. I wrote a numbered list describing my last five minutes
11. I might sound like a condescending prick
12. I probably am
13. 14.
Fifteen
Carry On
I have read your post, sir, and have this to say:
I think you need a hug. Let me know if I can help in that regard.
Until then, I remain...
-Snarkle
Some cant handel others who disagree who try to help/explain why and maybe get a answer as to why that'd be a problem for them. To me its a learning tool to other its a stupid pointless thing to others its a way to screw around. point it hes stupid enough to not take critism without shoving a granade in "fuck all" files of his computer, those type of people are better off ignored and classified as pricks.
what you did was a elegent way of saying "well sucks for you" and that sir is awesome.
I agree with the gist of what you said. I took the time to read your rant blog and write this reply, so I'd be irked too if you deleted it. And it's not that I would have wasted my time, it's about the basic level of respect that one expects from civil society. Respect forms the bonds of community, so it hurts when one you believe (consciously or not) you share a community with does not appear to respect you. I mean, if you had no communal connection with this person, you wouldn't care one way or the other.
Those are my thoughts on the post itself.
956637 And then this little comment sparked the following.
The Golden Rule is essentially "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." This means you should treat other people how you'd like to be treated. If you think you'd like to be blocked were your two positions reversed, that would be following the Golden Rule.
I've never heard or read your quoted saying before. (I believe it to be a faulty form of the Golden Rule, but maybe people say that in your part of the country.) What you have there translates to the Old Testament rule "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth." (I may be misquoting slightly.) This means that for every wrong done to you, an equal wrong should be done to the one guilty of wronging you. Blocking all possible future comments (956602) for having one comment deleted seems like a greater "wrong" (a much stronger reaction).
958303
Yes, I know of the golden rule and that's great - in theory. However, I've found it's far too idealistic for application in the real-world. Everything works - in theory. Feudalism works, in theory (because no noble would be so depraved as to take advantage of the situation). Anarchism works, in theory (if everyone respects the individual rights of everyone else, there'd be no problem). Hell, fascism works in theory. But once you start attempting to apply these pie-in-the-sky theories to the real world, things start breaking down.
Just like pure pacifism, the Golden Rule would work perfectly if everyone followed the Golden Rule. But there are those who do not. So I use this that I call the 'Inverse Golden Rule.' "Do unto other as you would have them do unto you until they do unto you. Then, do unto them as they do unto you." Essentially, Golden Rule on the first meeting and just treat them with the same respect and courtesy as you are treated. If everyone followed the Golden Rule, this would work exactly as that does. If someone doesn't, this prevents you from being treated like a doormat.
This is actually how most people act. Of course, this is a simplistic explanation. If someone's obviously turning over a new leaf, they deserve a fresh chance. If someone's had an obviously bad day, then forgiveness should be offered etc. etc. I'm not aiming to leave the whole world blind but neither am I a slave.
very well spoken my good sir keep up. with what you are doing everyone has opinion but most chose to you use it in a bad way i think what you did was right. he didn't think about the cause and effect of his actions. i'm behind you 100%
THIS! it says exactly how i feel about these things!
normally i wouldn't even comment on this kind of a blog, but you just hit everything RIGHT. ON. THE. HEAD!
that is all.
I had this basically happen in one story awhile back and it drove me a little crazy too. I typed up a detailed response on how to improve the story and why, despite my desperately wanting to like it, I just couldn't enjoy it. Took an hour, 3 other readers commented that I'd said everything they were thinking, and the only response from the author was "TL:DR."
If that bugged me so much, even now, I can't imagine how it must have been when they up and deleted your comment all together, censoring a dissenting voice. Sorry that happened dude
To quote my own user page (because I'm that kind of arrogant asshole):
Acting that way basically boils down to telling you "However much time and attention you spent on this is less valuable to me than the two seconds I need to press this little button. See ya!"
That kind of behavior deserves no respect.