Thunk thunk.
Thunk thunk.
The green passed by outside the window in a blur. My eyes slowly started to drift closed again only for a hoof to poke firmly at my ribs.
I quickly raised my head again, "I'm awake!"
"Sure you are," Sunset said, "Now stay that way. We need to stay awake during the day now."
"You're as sleepy as I am," I grumbled and leaned against her, nosing at her neck.
"Well, d'uh."
"I'm fine, I'm not tired at all," Twilight said cheerfully across from Sunset, her sixth cup of coffee floating in her magic next to her.
"You're going to regret that," Sunset told her seriously.
I nodded, "You're going to have a caffeine crash," I agreed.
"Yep," Sparks said cheerfully, "But that's when I can sleep anyway. Meanwhile, I'm not getting poked."
I eyed her with a small smirk. I’d give you a poking. Sadly, we didn’t exactly have privacy here.
Twilight blinked at me and the inside of her ears turned slightly red before she returned to her book, apparently able to guess my general thoughts.
"There is that," I admitted instead and shot Sunny a look.
She gave me a sleepy look back, "If you didn't keep almost falling asleep, I wouldn't need to poke you."
I grumbled softly and shifted my wings, "...I think Sparks might have the right idea here," I admitted, "I'm getting some tea. Anypony else want some?"
"I'll get it, your majesty," Flower Rain said and jumped off the couch across from us.
"It's fine, I got it," I said and started to get up.
She shook her head, "I need to stretch my legs," she protested, "Anypony else want something?"
"I'll have a coffee, please," Sunset said, admitting defeat.
Flower Rain trotted out of the compartment as I sank back down onto the soft couch.
I could get my own damn tea at least some times, I don't need everypony doing everything for me, damn it.
Sunset gave my ear a nuzzle as she whispered, "You're their Prince. Let them treat you like it."
"Not sure I'm ever going to get used to it," I admitted and settled down, resting my head on my forehooves.
"I'm not that comfortable with it either," Sparks admitted and sipped her evil brew, "I managed to avoid it fairly well until we moved to Nocturnis, but Midnight was subjected to some of it in her old world after she got her own castle."
"It makes Ponies comfortable," Sunset said and looked between me and Sparks, "Seriously. Before everything, the reaction of anypony seeing somepony like Princess Celestia making her own tea would be one of slight horror and then quickly offering to do it for her. It's the same thing with you two."
I closed my eyes and sighed against my hooves, "We need democracy."
Sparks shook her head, "That never works above the small town level."
I blinked fully awake and lifted my head to look at her, "Excuse me, what?"
She frowned at me, "It's a well known political science fact. Democracy, while a nice idea, does not work over groups larger than a village."
I gaped at her and shook my head, "But... uhm..."
"None of the Empires or Kingdoms or Equus has that form of rule," Sparks continued and flicked one ear, "I mean, there is some at lower levels of government, like in Ponyville the Mayor was elected to her position, but anything larger than a village it doesn't work."
It took a moment before I was able to speak, "That... no. Wait, I know that places like Manehattan have a mayor! That's way bigger than Ponyville."
Sparks nodded, "The mayor of the larger cities are appointed by the crown. Their councils are usually elected from the different areas of the city, but that's as far as it goes. Imagine if everypony was elected by popular vote to their positions, all they'd worry about is to make decisions to get them elected again next time. No matter how bad they would be long term."
"I... but..." I started, "That's... that's how the human world works," I finally said, "I used to live in a democracy!"
She looked at me in surprise, "I didn't know that! That's fascinating!" she exclaimed and quickly put her cup down and dug through her pack, pulling out a notepad before looking at me again, "Can you tell me how it worked?"
"Badly," Sunset interjected, "It was like that in the human world I went to as well. It felt like every week there was some sort of political scandal."
I sighed and set my head back down onto my hooves.
Democracy is a good thing, damn it.
And if we never move to it, I'm stuck doing this forever! Now may definitely not be the time, but.. sometime, right?
"Later, Sparks," I sighed softly, "Sometime when I can put more than two thoughts together."
She pouted but nodded, putting her notebook away.
I felt my eyes starting to drift closed.
Oof!
I quickly lifted my head and blinked before I rubbed my side with my wing, "...What time is it anyway?"
"Three in the afternoon," Sunset said, "At least five more hours before we can sleep."
I groaned softly. Maybe I could try to get some fresh air or something, but I have a suspicion that Moon Glow or Amber will tackle me if I get too close to an outside door while still in the jungle.
The door opened and Flower Rain returned, carrying a tray of ice tea for everypony and a pot of coffee.
Just need to stay awake for five more hours.
Cute. As well as nice
Page you may want to try some form of parliamentary monarchy like the Queen/King of England is also the head of state of Canada,Australia and New Zealand but doesn't have to be there all the time.
I mean yeah, Plato's Republic would outclass a democracy in every way. It's not our fault we don't have benevolent immortals.
Also US is a constitutional republic not a democracy
To bad Page dont use Coffee... Than again Caffine crash can be harsh...
True... Democracy sounds nice, but in truth its a elaborate lie. When i try to get my vote checked it never works.
Interessting how transparentcy in politic's is hates like the plage. Everyone trying for it is suppressed HARD.
We could need a Celestia & Luna.
Problem is we seem only to get Daybreakers and Baddreammoons...
Term limits, term limits.
Imperfect, but it's a start to making an elected democracy work in favor of the people.
Can somepony give Page a dozen Monster or Red Bull's please? I am certain staying awake after those won't be any problem for him.
10954242
Term limits are a non-functional answer. They only create an ever increasing dependence on the un-elected, and thoroughly unaccountable bureaucracy. They will naturally evolve into the gatekeepers by possessing the only extant institutional memory, and will consequently hold and wield all the real power.
10954205
The monarch in those countries has no actual political power and is just a figurehead. Those aren't actual monarchies in anything other than name, so I don't see the small-horses going for it.
10954347
That doesn't mean it can't be adapted to Equestrian standarts rather than a full democracy.
Okay boys! We’ve got a freebie! I need off brand references, I need a bass riff, and I need a guy in a pizza delivery man costume.
Son of a…
Alright we’ve got everything you asked for, except is a pool Cleaner okay? We couldn’t-
Put it back.
…what?
I said put it back. He’s doing our job for us now. (Sits and pouts)
Simple solution, term limits.
Page: So...what happens if the Crown appointed officials are corrupt?
Twilight: The Crown places the accused official on a strict probation period. If the pony in question breaks the probation terms, they are replaced. Any appointed officials are only allowed three probation periods within their entire career. After that, they can no longer hold any office.
Sunset: And before you ask...royal alicorns are exempt to the probations, Page!
Page: *pout* Fine. But who is in charge of overseeing the probation?
Sunset: The Royal Spymaster.
Page: Wait...Celestia has a Spymaster? Who?
Twilight: We don't know. Their identities are a secret. Usually somepony high enough to mingle among noble circles. Most likely an unassuming pony who seems fickle and petty enough that a corrupt official might lower their guard around them.
Page: Hmm...
...MEANWHILE IN CANTERLOT...
Prince Blueblood: *sneezes multiple times*
That's gonna come back to bite her
Hmm, clever
Really, huh
Oh yeah because you are not different from Twilight, that's why. She didn't give a new opinion but the same one.
Especially that both of them wouldn't benefit from democracy because they are from royal class
Ponies just don't want any responsibility and would rather live in a fake fantasy or at least are taught by Celestia and nobles to think like that.
10954226
10954292
Maybe powdered energy drink?
All you need is water to add.
Like gamersupps.
RussianBadger recommends them after trying coffee shitting and Monsters energy drinks caffeine fall
10954231
I would rather have some bad politicians than beings that think that are gods and are control freaks towards the whole world(ike holding every hostage by sun and moon).
Also freedom of choice in doing good and bad things.
In short free will.
10954221
you mean the US is formed by a bunch of tea-hating tax dodgers!
images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/b51a24b2-5339-4ecf-bf8b-0423b6a83525/dccrzkx-8dc49951-3e3c-4713-ac04-c034a644db3b.jpg/v1/fill/w_800,h_753,q_75,strp/why_we_are_great_by_alchetbeachfan_dccrzkx-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NzUzIiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvYjUxYTI0YjItNTMzOS00ZWNmLWJmOGItMDQyM2I2YTgzNTI1XC9kY2Nyemt4LThkYzQ5OTUxLTNlM2MtNDcxMy1hYzA0LWMwMzRhNjQ0ZGIzYi5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9ODAwIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.Yv_mCJIm3vvFdORWQ0GiijWxqI657PoAcfW2aJCySDw
10954426
Monarchy’s also suffered from power vacuums when succession was either unclear or simply disagreed with, leading to bloody civil wars where serfs lives and property’s were thrown away without care or concern.
Monarchies elevate the entitled spoiled few whose only “right to rule” was that their dad’s sperm found their mom’s egg.
Absolute Power corrupts absolutely.
Other systems aren’t perfect and this one certainly isn’t either.
10954221
a distinction without a difference in modern democracies, excluding the occasional wave of antidemocratic fever. Ponies in general lack the concept of nationalism, they're in celestia's kingdom, not their country. its something that took humanity quite a while to work out, but when it did, well... 2 world wars, 2 giant wars arguably world wide themselves, and hundreds of conflicts on all levels leading to the modern maps
10954410
Meh... At the currently rate earth is dying i prefer that over going extinct...
Yeah, humanity's imperfect systems are the result of not having Princess Celestia.
10954436
See above. Succession becomes a nonissue when the rulers are immortal.
"Democracy is the worst form of government – except for all the others that have been tried."
Winston Churchill
He may be a cynic, but them's the brakes Page.
Wish we had our own Celestia, but we would probably muck it up in record time, just as well.
10954477
I firmly believe monarchy was the best way to go...
10954518
It is quite entertaining that the Bible tells we will have a single monarchy on the earth after all the governments of men turn fully wicked in the last days, among a number of other points but I digress.
Monarchy is best, but only if you have a genuinely benevolent and just king in charge.
The democratic government type grew popular because it distributed the power to the most hands, forcing people to unite to accomplish anything, which in turn forced compromise and, in the past, at least grudging mutual understanding of each other's perspective on some level.
The elites of society never have the power to steamroll more than a limited amount of the people in any given situation, which forces them to be more restrained by force of the rule of law.
Also, America is not a democracy, but a republic.
We vote for representatives, then they vote on the rules and laws on our behalf.
It really did work wonders, so long as one critical factor was upheld:
The population that pays attention and knows how the system works knows who will be a good leader and tends to elect them.
A population self-absorbed and does not even know how the basics work, as today, will be easily deceived into electing evil leaders.
Page should go for it.
The immortal ruler no matter how good she/he seems will stemp all opposition and what threatens their control.
Be it be progress in technology or society.
Technological progress would mean they wouldn't need her for example.
This could be a fun little debate between Page and Sparks.
wow this is the truth they all will fale in time.
Love your work and forgot how regularly you update
Poor Page, I know the pain of political debate when short on sleep. I suspect he's going to be more bruise than ungulate by the time they arrive.
10954347
Not quite. At least in the UK the Queen has significant power if she chooses to exercise it, the current one (and the rest of the royal family) just tends to serve more passively as a sort of glue to keep government bodies interfering with one another (legislation, judiciary, army, etc), doing diplomatic work etc.
10954221
Page isn't American, going by all the indications so far. More likely he's British, some other Commonwealth nationality or as an outlying possibility Scandinavian.
10954639
You make a very good point regarding the importance of benevolence. Absolute monarchy works right up until the moment the good king dies, and then it's a dice roll to hope you get a good replacement. Hence why with mortals, constitutional monarchy is a great compromise since it limits everyone's power and prevents conflicts of interest.
10954315
Monarch elected committee then?
A lot of these governmental ideas sound great until you actually watch them in action.
10954928
Good statecraft is incredibly, ridiculously hard.
10954694
Her statement itself is false/wrong.
That just means she doesn't know anything about democracy and only tells what she was told by others like Celestia.She has a biased view that lived as a noble that benefitted from the status quo and everything else was viewed as a problem to that.
If you have to try something (like a diagnostic or a test, for exmople for democracy )that you don't want to succeed, it won't succeed or won't be successful enough to you.
Funnily enough, you could make the exact same statement about a monarchy. I mean, how many subjects’ concerns can a single ruler, no matter how benevolent, be plausibly expected to address within a single work day again? Does that actually work for more than a village or perhaps a modest city-state?
And the moment you tell me that that’s not actually solely the ruler’s job and that they’re allowed to delegate their workload and have a cadre of bureaucrats handle the formalities and day-to-day paperwork, so that regardless of how they get there you have a whole bunch of folk doing all the necessary government work one way or the other...well, it rather seems to me that that is where the line between nominally different political systems gets for all intents and purposes kind of blurry awfully fast in any event.
Almost everyone in the comment section: Serious semi-heated discussion about the effectiveness of a democratic government versus alternative systems. Especially relating to the unique circumstances of Equestrian society. Many ups and down votes thrown at each other within this battle of superiority!
Me all by myself: ...Prince Blueblood is an international..super spy~♪ SUPER SPY~♪♪♪
10955108
Nonsense, I say! Clearly he is a hero of the Great War! The field marshal who halted the Changeling advance at Rockville, who led the liberation of Olenia!
Wait, what's that? This isn't EaW? Oh ok, fine, he can be a spy...
10954639
yea I fully admit that it worked in the beginning but it was never going to work forever and fully believe we need to return to the old system as it worked fairly well for thousands of years...
Swift Spear... What is he doing this days?
10955205
The Georgians and especially Victorians seemed to have a decent balance (even if they had plentiful problems of their own that have since been more or less resolved), and a very good attitude towards reform. That is, iterative rather than revolutionary. Yes, it takes longer to finish the job in theory, but in practice it's a lot easier and more efficient to reform say, the police or education system over thirty years of gradual changes than two years of hectic snap changes that leave staff confused and eat up massive portions of the budget, only to be repeated again by the next minister for XYZ who thinks things went too far and overcompensates or just scraps the entire thing and starts again because they want to 'leave their mark' or genuinely see a convoluted mess and decide its the best way to fix things.
Patience and gradual reform is how Robert Peel built the world's first true police force and how slavery was successfully abolished. It took centuries to get from Magna Carta to the basic human rights we expect today, but we got there and are infinitely better for the slow progression than if such steps were taken by beleaguered civil servants rushing to meet targets within unachievable timeframes, resulting in a grand edifice of achievement built upon a foundation of plywood that is in a constant state of collapse.
Did Luna or Twilight ever teached Page to ground spells to improve defense?
'Normal life- chapter 3'
10955205
We abandoned it so widely because it failed to work in the long run, but nobody knew what else to do for thousands of years.
The Roman Empire kind of had it, but suffered the same root problems as the world sees today.
The problems we have are because the population must be involved with the process.
When the people at every level ignore personal responsibility for the state of their nation and take their vote arbitrarily, we are no better than a corrupt tyrant running a monarchy.
Equestrian politics sound so much better, although they do really rely on having a benevolent immortal ruler/ruling class to make sure that everyone below them is doing their job.
10955560
Yeah, government powers tend to be different when throwing immortals into the mix.
----------------
Honestly though, I don't think a ruler like Celestia would last as long in our world. Say she was wholly accepted as an immortal ruler in a region, she could be the best and just ruler our planet has seen, but we humans aren't like ponies.
Humanity strives for peace and stability, and when we have it, our gaze looks for things we want. Someone will look at Celestia and wonder what it would be like being an immortal ruler. And even if Celestia makes the best choices, someone will not get enough, and as time goes on people will feel more "slighted". And in a generation or two, despite a majority of people are prospering, a sizable group of people are riling themselves up against Celestia. From there it would only be a matter of time before these people, filled with what they think is injustice done to them, will finally snap.
Humanity can't just seem to be happy with stability, we almost always end up rocking the boat for one reason or another.
10954639
Democratic-Republic, actually.
Jefferson, Adams, et al looked at both democracies (both historically and as it existed in England, which they had just broken away--so that wasn't what they wanted) and republics (only historical examples they had were histories of Rome & a handful of some Greek city-states). They found there was merit in each, but both were lacking in certain safeguards, but they decided on an attempt to blend both ideas. This is why the US is referred to as "The Great Experiment".
Early on, the founding fathers realized there was a great risk in getting a tyrant in the Executive Branch, so they put severe restrictions on the President to require him to be a natural born citizen and they had a ready-means to remove any corrupt President. Even so, they missed the idea of term limits or mental/physical incapacity (which wasn't even fixed until 1967 with the ratification of the 25th Amendment!).
Where the founders really failed was to realize there was just as big of a risk of getting collections of tyrants in either the Legislative and/or Judicial Branches--Congressmen discovered early on (~1800) that they could vote their own pay raises with NO ONE able to complain until after it was way too late, and several times they've allowed judges to be appointed who are clearly unable to properly rule on cases before them. Thereafter, we've had a never-ending series of corrupt career politicians of both major parties, was well as judges, who have given the entire country numerous problems for over 200 years. And STILL, we have NO term limits NOR for the electorate to set their pay through voter referendum for these morons!
Those problems have been not only biting the USA in the ass for generations, but have become progressively worse and are now seriously endangering the entire world!!
10957210
FINALY, someone with all the correct points of understanding in this subject, and that has some more understanding then me with historical points.
I'mma just screen shot this for later reference and research, and maybe will talk.?
I could have sworn there is a bit of text within the constitution that's not an amendment but part of the wording that states clearly that "all and any who hold a seat of power are to be elected by the people", yet for the short time I had to look it up to be sure I can't find it for the life of me.All political systems are feasible until you get humans involved in them.
It has led to the most prosperous and peaceful era in world history after all.
10957210
Pretty sure America became an Oligarchy back in the 70s when they began to allow corporations to decide elections.