Not-Prince Velar knew when he wasn’t wanted. He could sense it in the hospital staff, in the constant eyes he felt whenever her went down the hall for lunch. The guards he could feel shadowing him all the while, though they tried to keep their presence discrete.
Maybe that would’ve fooled ponies, who wandered through life half-blind and deaf at every moment. But Velar had been trained for war—he could sense an assassin even if they were an owl flying on the other side of a wall.
He saw less of Starlight Glimmer than he would’ve liked in the next few weeks. Mostly he saw doctors—unicorns and earth ponies, who would sprawl him out on some cot somewhere and pour over his injury with spells or cleaning supplies or potions. The whole process was infuriating, but at least his fears about the incompetence of males for medical tests proved unfounded. Nor were Zoya’s fears about his wound becoming septic and inevitably rotting him from the inside coming true.
Velar had counted himself dead. Many of the well-wishes from slaves and good birds in Accipio alike had expressed parting words. They weren’t wishing for him to get better, but praying he would be protected and find peace in Unity.
But Velar had beaten them all. Or… maybe not him. The ponies had proven that there was some worth to an inferior magic after all. For a yellow-bellied coward like me, who wouldn’t take the life of a slave. And when the ponies whispered about him, when they thought he couldn’t hear, they spoke of it like it was a virtue.
I’m willing to order birds to their death every day on the battlefield, but I will not accept a life to power the spell needed to save my life. What’s wrong with me? What was wrong with Accipio, that someone had managed to smuggle a working firearm into the tournament grounds? Vengeance, obviously. But could any bird prove it?
The ponies did not make it easy for Velar to stay sane while he healed. For entertainment Canterlot’s hospital had only an expansive library of books he didn’t know how to read, and an attractive garden he wasn’t allowed to visit for fear he might try and escape.
Starlight Glimmer gave him updates—though what she said was frightening and there were always long pauses between her visits. “Withdrawal from griffon lands are complete,” she announced one week. “All the birds are out of Equestria,” was news the next week.
Then she came with questions. “Velar, do you…” She looked flustered that day, more so than usual. Her mane was haphazard, and she didn’t smell like she’d bathed in her usual perfumes. Or at all. “Something’s… Did you know anything about a temple in Griffonstone?”
He shook his head. “I’m certain that it isn’t anything to do with my father’s house. We tried to negotiate with those birds, but… they lacked any sort of authority to negotiate with. That city is a disaster, Starlight. Those birds are in pitiful shape.”
“Not anymore.” She sat across from him, in one of the comfortable chairs. Much more comfortable than the medical wing of the Stalwart Stratus. Velar was back to wearing the typical white tunics a bird of his station ought to wear, even though his fur and feathers were only just starting to grow back where they’d been cut away. He still looked and felt emaciated, and a pony diet wasn’t helping. It was a struggle even to get fish up here, let alone the red meat that would’ve really set him on the path of recovery. “There’s a whole temple up there. We noticed a few ships going back and forth before communications ended. Thought they were doing city repairs. Turns out they were building a fortress.”
Starlight Glimmer held up a sketch for him, though she didn’t pass it over. Velar no longer loafed uselessly in his hospital bed, but sat in one of the other visiting chairs. He still felt like a prisoner—and knew that he was.
But like all ponies, Starlight Glimmer underestimated just how good he could see. Even across the room he could take in every detail of the image at a glance. He could see the fortified walls going up, the places that would hold cannons, the forges. “That is… expansive.”
“They didn’t touch the old city,” Starlight Glimmer muttered, sounding betrayed. But she often spoke that way when birds were involved. “Griffonstone griffons won’t let our inspectors in to see what they did. Work crews are gone… but there are still some experts there, from what we know. And half of Griffonstone seems to go there to work now. Doing… Celestia only knows.”
Celestia might not know, but Velar did. Those huge cylinders and the smokestacks that went with them were Bessemer converters. Maybe they’re just making farm equipment. Or pipes for new buildings. Because that was how you made your farm tools. You didn’t open an obvious factory in your city, you flew in secret experts a country away where you thought no one would look.
“You’re thinking something,” Starlight said, folding the drawing into her saddlebags. Her face got stern. “What do you know?”
Velar ignored the question. “Do you know which house these experts came from? Maybe… we’re all proud. Maybe you saw a flag?”
Starlight nodded, removing another sketch. This one had color.
Velar didn’t even need to get a good look at the sigil underneath to know who it came from. The greens were obvious. “House Vengeance. Obviously. Because anything that goes wrong these days is their fault. Of course they’d be the ones to try something like this. I wonder how they got in with the locals…”
“Nopony knows,” Starlight said. “Princess Celestia thinks this could be dangerous. She was hoping you might be able to tell us more about it.”
“If I do, will you send me home?” He rose from his seat, stretching. “Don’t try and say I’m not healthy enough. We both know that hasn’t been true for days now. I wouldn’t have to fly the whole way—my father would happily reimburse you for a charter or something. Unity knows you’d just have to say my name, and he’d have the flagship here to pick me up.”
Starlight Glimmer rose too, shifting uncomfortably on her hooves. He’d been right, she had been about to use his health to keep him trapped here. But he was wise to her tricks. “Not yet,” she eventually said. “Princess Celestia is hoping that having you here might…”
“Might make my family more cooperative,” he finished for her. “Because I’m a hostage. An ancient, successful technique. Except that my father understands the future of all Accipio is at stake.” His eyes narrowed, the closest to anger he dared with the pony. “Gaius is a good bird, more honorable than any emperor before him. How many other emperors do you think would let their only son choose to die to uphold their own sense of honor?” He didn’t give her a chance to think. He already knew the answer. “Not one. You can use me as a hostage—maybe you can negotiate for the trade of some pony prisoners or something. But it won’t work for getting Emperor Gaius to compromise on policy. He knows that I would rather die than see the birds of Accipio hurt. He will give me that opportunity without hesitation if it comes to that.”
Starlight Glimmer met his gaze for a long moment. But she was still prey—ultimately, she was the one to look away first, stomping one hoof in frustration. “You… dumb birds… are insufferable!” she practically screamed. Almost as bold as a male griffon. Almost. “We gave you land! We’re the ones keeping the climate from going crazy! We’re the reason you have anything to eat! Don’t you think you owe us a little cooperation in return? Giving back the ponies you enslaved.”
“No.” He kept his voice flat, without her anger. “The ponies our great-great-great grandparents enslaved. Ponies that have been part of Accipian families for centuries since. Ponies that probably don’t even want to go back to Equestria. You know what this demand will sound like to my father?” This too was ill-advised. Like informing the ponies what Vengeance was really up to, his own side would be better off the worse that ponies knew what was going on. But he couldn’t stop himself.
“I’ll tell you. It will sound like Princess Celestia is trying to consciously unravel our social order. She’s trying to dissolve and conquer Accipio the way she did to house Endurance. She made them give up their slaves too, you know. That’s where Equestrian minotaurs come from. Most of your zebras too.”
“I… I know that…” Starlight muttered, though much of her anger had faded into simple curiosity. “Why would your father think that, anyway? Most of your slaves aren’t ponies, you said so. Why would it sound like we wanted to unravel your whole civilization?”
“Because societies need tradition,” Velar said. He gave a silent prayer of thanks to his mother then, who had made sure that his civic training had not been ignored. He was slated to be the emperor one day, after all. She intended for him to be a good one. Not that it seemed likely to happen soon. He couldn’t take the office before he found a mate—or while his father was alive—or while he was a hostage to the ponies in their hospital.
He cleared his throat. “Look, it’s like this. Most everyone started as slaves to someone else a long time ago. Over time, birds earn their freedom, one way or another. Takes ages of work, saving up and fighting. Not to mention that lots of slaves have whole families they want to free, not just themselves. So they end up as freemen, and they realize that it’s not the best place to be. They save up for a few more years, working as hard as they can, until them or their great grandkids can afford citizenship.”
“That sounds… barbaric,” Starlight Glimmer muttered. The word sounded strange to Velar, alien when it was applied to his own kind. It was like a bird covered in mud complaining that he was too dirty. But he ignored it—understanding was more important.
“Well, imagine your whole society was built this way. Almost everyone used to be a slave once, or has lots of friends who were. They worked tirelessly to escape. Now imagine what happens if we freed 40,000 slaves.”
He didn’t wait, didn’t give her the chance to think. Based on their conversations so far, she wouldn’t discover the correct answer. “That would enrage those who spent years and years of hard labor while other slaves drunk or gambled their wages away. And for those who are still slaves, minotaurs and zebras and other creatures who we wouldn’t be forced to free… they’d know that we could be pressured into releasing slaves. Maybe they’d rise up in revolt. There hasn’t been a zebra rebellion in my lifetime… but minotaurs have been trying every few years.”
“I…” Starlight Glimmer had been silenced. She tried to argue, but no coherent words came out. Maybe she was trying to think of ways around it. Eventually she seemed to settle on: “So maybe you should let them all go, not just the ponies. Make everypony a… freeman?”
He met her gaze. “If we did that, would Equestria let the ponies continue to live with us? Or would you force them into your territory?”
Starlight didn’t answer. It was all the confirmation he needed. “Accipian society would not survive that transformation. Those who are free fought hard for that—they would be furious that others were being given what they had earned. Those above them, the citizens of power—they’d be even more furious. Not only that we were stealing their property, but that there was simply not enough gold in all Accipio to pay a whole world of freeman. That kind of coin just doesn’t exist.”
Velar stepped right up to her, meeting Starlight’s eyes with his own. He hoped she would see the sincerity there. “If my father tried to obey Celestia’s orders, the other great houses would revolt the same day. Either they would challenge him for the throne, one by one until some bird beat him… or they’d just raise their armies and try to topple us. And when they finished with house Virtue, they’d come for Equestria.”
Starlight Glimmer retreated from his gaze. She glanced back at the door, then down at him. “I… I don’t think we’ve thought about it that way.”
“No, you wouldn’t have.” He sighed. “Could you think of letting me out of this cage? You still owe me a trip around Canterlot, if I recall. I’ll give you my word of honor not to try and flee. But if you keep me trapped here, I’m going to lose my mind.”
“Your… perspective has been helpful,” Starlight Glimmer eventually said. “I’ll ask. My word doesn’t carry the weight it used to. I kinda made a fool of myself by letting you keep your pony slaves this long.”
“Didn’t seem like that to me,” Velar answered. “If you’d tried to force the language into the treaty, we would’ve refused it. It would’ve been a war. At least so far, not one pony or bird has died. Maybe we can keep it that way. Somehow.”
“Somehow,” Starlight agreed. “I hope so.” She left without another word, leaving Velar alone with his thoughts.
Ugh. The fact that Starlight is so easily swayed by this moron really frustrates me. He is NOT making good points, he's spouting off bullshit about the virtues of slavery, and she just eats it up.
And there we have it. After all the Equestrians have done for them, they aren't willing to capitulate on anything. Anything they agreed to, they instantly turned around and went back on. With this one word, Velar confirmed that his nation is an existential threat.
Those who are free had their ancestors fight hard for it, you mean, Velar?
What do you know, Starlight?
Seriously, this could not have been kept a secret. It takes tons upon tons upon tons of materials to create modern weapons. Materials that would have come in on Equestrian trains, from Equestrian mines, paid for with copious amounts of Equestrian money (which Griffonstone somehow has now, despite being destitute). This can't have come as a surprise, and it should be ten kinds of obvious what they're doing.
Also, is Starlight actually going to do something in this story, other than constantly screwing up and getting repeatedly lectured to by Velar on the virtues of hypocrisy?
8952655
Yeah, this is getting annoying. At this point I wished Equestria haven't helped them at all.
Serious Giaus what did you expect Equestria to ask for there help. Again freed some slaves for the future of your empire. Your empire HAS to change to survive. Yeah distraught this and the fight in the previous chapter are really hurting this story
8952655
I don't think that's it. He's saying that doing this would lead directly to slave revolts, civil war, and/or war with Equestria. The ponies want the slavery to end, but they also don't want the bloodshed any of that would lead to.
8952655
He's not making good points, that's true, but I don't think Starlight is swayed by the points, she's swayed by the fact that he believes them heavily enough that he's likely right that the griffons would go to war rather than accept Equestria's terms. She's not arguing because she needs to learn how the griffons think more than she needs to convince him that he's wrong.
...Though it would certainly be pretty satisfying to see Starlight properly dismantle his defence of slavery.
Yeah, I was starting to wonder if this was a case of "They WON'T free the slaves" or if it was a case of "They CAN'T Free them"...
While I get where Velar's coming with this, the progress of society is a thing for a reason. The fact that his people can't grow beyond their traditions speaks to a fundamental corruption of their entire society, and a powerful need for massive, uncompromising reform.
8952655
To be fair, Starlight is a little predisposed to the virtues of inequality and slavery. Our Town. If anyone could empathize with Accipio's slave culture, I'd expect her to.
8952655
That's because Starlight - and all of Equestria really - have been continuously portrayed as dimwitted, slow-on-the-uptake dunderheads while the gryphons are savvy and proactive and actually have a clue, even if they are ass-backwards savages. And yes, it's annoying as it gets. I honestly think I'll just get off the train at this point, because while the premise had potential such an unbalanced portrayal of both sides competence and the pro-gryphon tone is proving to be grating to read long-term.
Something brewing up in Griffonstone, and both sides trying to save face/societal norm's/culture/values/whatever.
Nope. That might unravel your society.
Maybe your grandkids can. Unless all the ponies currently flying outside might object, then not even then.
Also,
Hah hah you are so f*cking wrong!
8952740
Something that every society deals with, in my opinion.
Societies either improve, or they fall and a new one forms.
To Velar,
Ahahahaha!
~Clan Vengeance.
Also, we're long, long, long past the time we get to see a more Equestrian perspective on these events. So far all we've seen is the gryphon side, and as many have pointed out both in the past and now, it has been making the Equestrians look like blind, bumbling idiots.
8952794
Let's hope something new will form, with both griffins and ponies doing something together. Not war thou; that would just paint griffon even bigger A-holes then some already see them, and ponies maybe either "martyrs" or magic abusing do-gooder's who get away with almost anything, or something.
Wow, people are getting salty over this.
8952803
8952773
Yeah, that's kind of a problem. The ponies never get to do or say anything meaningful, they just keep bumbling around and be out-talked by Velar, who's not winning so much because he's making sense but rather because he's tightly clinging to his self-serving, chauvinistic arrogance.
Starlight should've asked him what he thinks his or his father's word is worth to Equestria now. They're untrustworthy. They are undeserving of any help they got.
8952805
When did the ponies get away with anything in this story? Not even with Griffonstone, because that wasn't a dump until they lost their idol and decided not to care about each other anymore.
8952834
It was more of a rhetoric theorizing.
8952773
going to have to agree with you on that, it’s swung far to much in the griffins favor to be believable anymore and I have stopped enjoying the story as a result. Sadly we don’t have nearly enough griffin fics on this sight.
8952845
Ah, that makes more sense.
"Deep breaths"
Okay......I can see somewhat from Velar's perspective, but the naivety of it is so grating that it loses all merit.
Th biggest assumption he has is that he thinks all birds would feel the same as him. The griffons ARE a very proud race, but where it falls apart is that only the minority view their personal honor being affected by how they treat others. In cases like the Inquisitor from previous chapters being the absolute best the master/slave relationship can go. But the thing is, and what Velar doesn't seem to get through his thick skull, is that altruism is not the norm in ANY society, and that life is so much easier when you don't give a flying crabapple about others.
From the sound of it, Velar tries to make it sound like the system they have in place is closer to indentured servitude, but the thing that keeps it from reaching that level is the fact that it is NOT truly government controlled so arbitrary value of the work required to obtain freedom is placed solely on the party least wanting to allow it.
That being said, I WOULD endorse the implication of such a unbiased party to moderate slave labor as a middle ground between these two factions.
Oh, the main point was voiced explicitly at last
Also I find really hard to believe that Celestia, for example, with her thousands of years of experience in politics, hasn't thought about it that way.
8952794
Stagnation is death, as they say.
On the one hand, I can generally see where Velar is coming from. It is indeed likely that attempts to emancipate the slaves would lead to large-scale rebellions, especially from factions like House Vengeance. That being said, I strongly doubt that the alternative -- slowly easing change into society -- is going to have a chance of happening under even ideal conditions. Velar's objections are, roughly, that the Accipian economy cannot handle the loss of its reliance on unpaid forced labor and that griffons as a whole would deeply dislike the idea -- but somehow, I doubt that any attempt to restructure the economy and sell the idea of emancipation to the population as a whole are going to have any hope of succeeding, especially given how resistant to change Accipio seems to be. Here, griffon culture works a lot like historical slave societies like the antebellum South and the Roman Empire: despite what Velar believes, the entire point of social stratification this thorough is to concentrate power in the hands of a small elite class and keep everyone else from obtaining it -- upward mobility is antithetical to caste systems, by definition. As such, the elites and everyone else depending on the current system for their current power in society would resist any attempt to take it down or destabilize it, even in the long run -- if, for instance, something was done to make Accipian economy better able to rely on paid labor from independent workers or companies or what have you, so that down the line an increase in freedmen could be easily accommodated, the House elites would recognize this as a threat to slavery and thus their ability to exert power, and would sabotage it.
The point is, if things keep as they are slavery can never end, because it can only be ended if conditions "are right" for it, and the Houses will do their damnedest to ensure they will never be right.
As for his comment regarding angry freedmen: many would likely be angry about this, sure enough, but two things are worth mentioning. Firstly, Velar is assuming that they'd all be angry. Maybe they would and maybe they wouldn't -- he assumes, but I doubt he has any solid basis for knowing. Secondly, this needs to be weighed against the feelings of the slaves who would be freed, and likely never would have the ability to free themselves -- if it was genuinely possible for any given slave to buy their freedom after a while, there'd be many more freedmen than there are. To me, this sounds a lot like the fable of the "self-made man" -- it happens once and again, but most of us have no chance to become truly wealthy no matter how hard we work, and we know it. Same general story for the slaves here. If a million slaves are glad to be free and a handful are pissed because the million didn't gain their right to be treated like people in a socially approved way by the standards culture that enslaved them to begin with, I think I know whose opinion of the whole affair holds more weight. Given what Velar said about how often the minotaurs rebel, I think it's fair to say that a good deal of Accipio's slaves would be quite glad to be free.
no
I am very, very close to giving up on this story at this point. I feel like the Equestrians have been more than fair with these thick-headed featherbrains. Equestria gave them land, food, everything they needed to weather out the biggest natural disaster the world has faced. A disaster that wiped out the Griffon's country. I do like how Starlight called their system barbaric, I was getting sick of hearing the Accipian's constantly referring to the Equestrians as the barbarians. Starlight no Celestia or Luna needs to sit this Griffon down and explain why his backwards society is not a good model for a civilisation. The fact the Minotaurs keep rebelling should indicate this system is obviously flawed in some manner.
I am going to give this story a few more chapters to start showing some real and tangible Equestrian competence, and then I'm going to stop following if I don't see some kind of turnaround. I want to like this story, it's got a good concept, but with each chapter I just find myself feeling less and less invested.
However if Velar is right about how most of the elite think like him, and he's considered progressive for his kind, then war is inevitable. As others have said, if none of the Accipian griffins with power want to even start to change the system, then the ponies can't budge either. If Celestia doens't enforce the treaty, she would lose all creditably. She would be saying to her own people that they can be taken as slaves and she would not fight for them or she would let an foe build up arms without protest.
Because for all I here from Velar, he's still not considering the pony prospective, where freedom is a right.
8953010
Speaking of the American South. The Confederacy did entertain the possibility of rolling back slavery to appeal to the major European powers(and later the possibility of emancipation for slaves that fought for the government out of desperation), but the design of the decentralization of power from the Confederate government meant any attempt would be torn apart by the constituent states before they could ever get any success. Where Lincoln managed to squeak by thanks to the developing supremacy of the Federal government in relation to the states authority, Davis never had a chance of pulling something like that off.
Then again, there's also something to be said about the underlying principles of political theory at play that were woven together to justify the ending of slavery in the United States that do not seem apparent from either an Equestrian voice or a Griffon one.
Lots of societies were/are built on slavery. There is always a reckoning at some point. It's never pretty or bloodless.
8952850
Except I don't think anyone could be unbiased. The Griffins wouldn't trust any ponies to moderate it, or, as Velar put it, the descendants of former slaves in Equestria (Minotaurs, Zebras, etc.). And the Griffins aren't going to moderate their own system, they've shown time and again they want to give up nothing.
8953169
Same boat here; can see the gryphon PoV, but the blatant disregard when being in 'enemy' territory is getting...a bit much. Even if they are a warlike/slave society, there is a time for soft subterfuge, like when being harbored by the 'enemy'
....not the blatant warmongering that has been going on.
So that's what Starlight is to you huh Velar? Covered in mud? Despite the fact that she stuck her neck out to save your life, that she's been trying her hardest to stop war from happening despite the fact that you not only disagree with everything she believes in, which you've made NO attempt to hide from her, but also the fact that the loopholes you found and exploited to uphold your 'honor' so you didn't have to give the dirty barbaric ponies an inch have completely destroyed her credibility?
... screw you Velar.
8953010
Seems like a lot of aspects about Accipian culture and legal systems are flying over your head.
You mention that slaves are unpaid, but they ARE paid. Low wages, but enough to buy their way to freedom eventually as evident by it being brought up so often, and there being freed slaves within Accipian society. But this rout to freedom divorces the newly-freed slave from a relatively comfortable position. There are very important laws protecting property in Accipian society, and harming someone else's slave is a very large no-no, which could land the offender in deep trouble with the law. So too, harming one's own slave overmuch is illegal, and while the fines would no doubt be less, there'd still be repercussions. On top of that, a slave owner would be very unlikely to harm their own slave when it's that slave that's bringing them money; if they fostered hatred or seriously harmed the slave, they're harming themselves by reducing productivity and the ability of the slave to earn money. As we've seen with the pony and his gryphon master a few chapters back in the arena sign-on area, the State can and will take ownership of a slave under the right circumstances. A slave also has access to regular food and a place to stay, along with the social protection that comes with whatever family they're enslaved to. They will also be taken care of medically should some accident befall them. There will always be someone there to provide for the slave so long as the slave does work and the family does not fall on hard times. On top of that, being held by a Family means that the slave has the clout behind them when they get sent to learn skills from institutions, and indeed might have avenues open to them that otherwise might not be.
A freed slave has none of these guarantees. They are their own legal entity, and therefor they have as much legal weight as any regular individual; they don't have a House behind them to support them, they don't have guaranteed work, they don't have guaranteed meals, they don't have a guaranteed place to stay, and they have no one there to back them up should they run afoul of legal problems. They stand or fall on their own merit. They are no longer part of a House, and lose the protections that it had granted them. They lose access to paid-for healthcare, and I wouldn't doubt that it's incredibly hard for a freed slave to get a loan or attend an institution to learn skills from, since there is no credit behind their name and they are no longer part of their House. They are, in short, a lot more vulnerable and a lot less able to care for themselves, especially if they can't find work that is already taken by enslaved individuals.
In the Antebellum South of America, there were slaves, and there were free workers. Slaves were valuable in both the work they could do and in the human capital they had; the skills and experiences that they accrued over time. It was much better to take good care of a good slave, than to potentially seriously harm or drive a slave to escape and hence lose out on that investment.
The free workers though, mostly Irish and Scottish, but also Italians, weren't valuable. They were disposable. They were given the toughest and most dangerous jobs. Because if one broke, you could just hire another at the same wage; you didn't have to worry about feeding them, clothing them, providing medical attention, or giving them a place to stay. If one died, you replaced them. Free men had no one to support them besides themselves.
In Accipio, there is slavery yes, but it's nothing like the slavery 90% of the people reading this story are used to. That much is evident by the knee-jerk reactions.
Edit: To all you downvoting me, why don't you instead offer a rebuttal to my points? Downvotes change no one's mind.
Personally, I think peace is impossible. The two sides have too many difference, too much pride, and too little resources. War is inevitable.
As for who will win...the gryphons have numbers, technology, and much more experience at conquest, that's obvious. Still, I have to side with the group that can weaponize the weather, twist reality to their whim, and whose leaders control fundamental forces of nature. The gryphons only exist today because ponies don't like destruction. Push them too far...
8953830
thank you
8953835
No, they can't. They can use the weather to make good battlefield conditions, but not weaponize it. They can barely control their own tornadoes and making everything muddy would hurt them too.
You mean discord? Last I checked discord isn't a pony.
Yet unicorns can do the same thing in sufficient numbers.
8953830
You're right on one thing, this isn't technically the kind of slavery that springs to mind when people hear the word. This is an insidious amalgam of slavery and indentured servitude.
Yes, the slaves get paid, but they don't just get fed, or get a house, they have to pay room and board with their masters, which comes out of the already paltry sum. As Velar said, it can take generations for a line of slaves to save up enough to buy freedom, and I doubt even that long would be enough to buy the freedom of the children who'd been born into slavery, more likely a few individuals buy their freedom thinking they can make enough to free the rest, and then find out that the system is set up as some kind of hellish circle. Freemen aren't able to find work and have no representation whatsoever. Thus they're far more likely to accrue debt or commit some crime to get them sent back into slavery.
Which brings us to another point, the Griffins, at least at the beginning, pretended the system kept mostly criminals and debt-owers enslaved so they could pay back society. But we now know with certainty that children born to slaves are slaves themselves and that it's not illegal to simply kidnap Equestrians and force them into slavery as well.
And again, I feel the need to point out the Griffins caste system seems to go
Griffin House Members
Slaves
Freemen
And a system where freemen have less rights than a slave is not a system people should be arguing the continued implementation of.
And Velar and the other Griffins keep arguing about how most of the slaves don't want to leave, despite the fact that A.) apparently the Minotaurs keep rebelling which means they do want to leave, and B.) They've painted a picture that Equestria, one of only two (or three? Thorax's Hive?) nations is the same or somehow worse than Accipio,
8953482
Who said anything about either of the two parties INVOLVED being the head of this organization?
Like you've said, the griffons would never allow ponies to dictate the terms of the price owed in indentured slaves, and for good reason based on pony knee jerk reaction to set everyone free immediately. The griffons have shown that the upper echelons either cannot or will not moderate the practices to a sufficient degree.
Who does that leave, you may ask?
First, it would have to be represented by a race not wholly assimilated into either Accipio or Equestria.
Second, it would have to be a power respected by both sides on the conflict, for whatever reasons those may be.
Third, it would have to have the brute force of will to enforce these regulations with everyone involved having to think twice about countering them.
Fourth, they must not be wholly against the idea of exploiting others like it seems the common pony is.
Personally......I'd place my vote for it to be the dragons. The biggest issue I can foresee is gryphon slave owners attempting to bribe the moderators, but the price of buying a dragon would likely outweigh the cost of playing things straight by a significant margin.
8953999
See that's the thing, aside from the Ponies the only two free races are the Changelings (presumably) and the Dragons. The latter have made it clear they want nothing to do with the Griffins (Ember threatening to kill any Griffin refugees who show up) and the Griffins would claim the Changelings are too much like the ponies.
Like, literally in this world those are the only two countries that haven't been conquered and enslaved by Accipio, or are part of Equestria (The Crystal Empire). Unless there's some kind of Hippocampi kingdom that isn't just a bunch of shapeshifting Hippogriffs, as the Griffins have apparently conquered the rest of the world, the ocean is the only place another country could exist.
8954001
.......I would say it'd be ALOT easier to convince a single individual's mind (since we've had no word that the dragon race as a whole despise griffons) then to change an entire race's view point on their culture. Especially since we know Ember to be fairly reasonable when it matters, and considering that we have a definite in to at LEAST get her to hear the idea.
I'm not suggesting her being the direct head over this effort, she likely has enough on her plate wrangling the rest of dragonkind into order, but former Dragonlord Torch on the other hand.......
8952833
Yeah, I dunno WHY. I, for one, am trying to keep an OPEN MIND, rather than jump on the "RARGLE FLARGLE SLAVERY IS BAD RAGLE FLARGLE" train. Also, it's pissing me off, because that's ALL anyone else in the comments can seem to focus on.
God, with all the crap that happens in the comments, I'm REALLY hoping that the author doesn't just stop writing the story in an attempt to avoid it altogether.
EDIT: Ok, who are the three assholes who downvoted THIS? There is literally nothing in this comment TO downvote!
8953910
Hey you summed up the slavery system, very nicely. My main problem with this story hasn't been that the system exists, it's a foreign culture that exists to drive conflict in the story after all. For me it's that the Equestrians portrayal has been discouraging. It's no fun to read a story about two powerful nations, where one of them is seemingly portrayed as being naive or outmatched frequently. Velar explained the system, but then nobody explains to him why it's a flawed system, rigged to keep people enslaved, though I think that's just down to the word limit the author seems to have implemented. The system seems to be ironically shackling the Griffons themselves, males aren't encouraged to read nor are they taught how to. The only professions for Griffons, seem to be roles that support the system they have. They either make the weapons of war, are priests that support the system, become soldiers that also enforce the system or run businesses/industries that are supported by the current model of slavery.
Also minor nitpick, but it's bugged me since I started reading this story. Celestia's silhouette is portrayed on the cover art for this story, but she's been practically a non-entity in the story. I'm just curious why the oldest ruler in the nation, hasn't been directly involved in any negotiations with the Accipians?
A social order centered around slavery deserves to be unraveled. It doesn't matter how prettily you dress up the current arrangement.
It would be nice if the people arguing against slavery in this story could come up with actual arguments and not just flail and stammer every time they're confronted with the Griffon's side of things.
8953830
Ah, but there's the catch: It's being brought up often by Velar to defend his culture, but the reality is different. Sure, he claims it's easy to buy freedom, but when Celestia investigated buying slaves as an option to free them she found that the price of freedom is nearly impossible for a slave to acquire.
Not only that, but once a slave is freed they become a freeman, which as Velar (and you yourself) point out is a nearly impossible position to have in Accipian society since they have no representation among the main houses, which almost inevitably ends in the freemen selling themselves into slavery to said houses. It's a cycle that pretends freedom is an option, but it really isn't. It makes slavery the 'best' option by making it the only option.
And as Starlight pointed out, racial difference influences this as well. Birds might be able to buy their freedom and raise to a respectable level of society, but the citizens boxes in even the grandest arenas were devoid of anything other than birds. Are you a slave of any other species than gryphon? Then slavery is your lot in life.
And as for the good things... well, yes, slaves do have a meal and a roof over their head and basic protections. One might argue that this is a good thing. And yet despite these supposed protections a slave's life is still up to the whims of his masters, as evidenced by Velar having to actively refuse a slave being sacrificed to save his life. His father was fully willing to do so, and that's coming from the nicest house in the Empire. It's a classic case of "you have basic necessities (and call them privileges) until we decide to revoke them."
8954058
Honestly, the prime gripe many people have right now is less "rawr slavery", but more that we've seen so little of the Equestrian side of things. We've only heard the gryphons sneering and only seen the gryphons gaining ground. Slavery? Circumvented by a technicality. Guns? Worked around by providing Gryphonstone with the knowledge. The first conflict? Elite gryphons catching a border patrol off-guard resulting in a complete and total rout. Time and time again the gryphons have been pushing and winning, and it'd be nice to see after... 29 chapters so far, that Equestria isn't just being outplayed at every angle.
8953910
According to this passage the social caste may be little bit different than how you suggested.
I think it's more like Citizenship is Family/House based in Accipio. A Freemen can buy a Citizenship therefore registering his Family as A (small) House and freeing them while also giving them citizenship. Being free doesn't give you any right, it just means you have no obligation to any one. Slaves are still below a Freemen but because of a slave is owned by a House it become higher than Freemen. Slave owned by Freemen probably are the worse of them all. As he didn't get any extra rights afforded by being owned by House member.
Accipio probably didn't have any equivalent of inherent human rights and equality in front of the court of law. It's a lot like medieval era.
Tl dr.
Citizen > Freemen > Slave
Any member of House = Auto Citizen.
Not part of House = Unrecognised by state.
Have we seen any ponies in Accipia who weren't slaves? Freedmen or straight-up citizens?
8954422
None that didn't arrive as delegates from Equestria. Starlight even comments on how devoid the citizen box in the arena was of non-gryphons.
Closest we have seen so far is Zoya, a zebra slave with enough status that wearing a chain is more formality than genuine restriction.
8953830
Firstly, as Velar says quite explicitly, it takes generations for slaves to make enough money for this to be even a possibility. Any given slave is still never going to be able to see freedom -- if they work very hard and save every penny they make, and their children do this too, and their grandchildren as well, then perhaps their grandchildren or great-grandchildren might be able to buy their way into freedom. And then likely become slaves again in a couple generations, because Accipian society provides freedmen with no representation, no political voice and no economic safety, forcing them to either fall into debt and slavery again or sell themselves back into bondage for the sake of stability.
Secondly, as Velar also says:
The simple fact that there is not enough money to pay an amount of freemen largely equal to the current amount of slaves says quite unambiguously that a slave's wage is astronomically smaller than a freeman's: if they were even comparable, then having to pay its slaves fair wages would hardly threaten Accipian society and economy with utter collapse. Even in real life, sharecroppers were paid -- a pittance, a trivial amount, a pay so much smaller than that of a free worker's that it might as well have been for show.
I would also like to call attention to Velar's wording here:
Property. Genuinely consider what that word means and what its use implies. Velar and Gina and the other griffons talk a lot about slaves being friends and almost family members, and in individual cases this is certainly true, but as far as Accipian society as a whole is concerned a slave is just that -- property. A thing to be owned. No one thinks of someone they genuinely see as an equal being with equal dignity as their "property". Velar's own wording betrays the beliefs of the system he tries to defend.
That is exactly the problem. In addition to the inherent difficulty in buying one's way out of slavery to begin with, every part of Accipian culture seems designed to punish you if you're not a slave or part of a House -- and for most people, the only way to be part of a House you're not born into is for said House to buy you as a slave.
It's quite clever, honestly. How do you keep people from leaving a bad position? By making the alternative even worse. If earning your freedom also means being thrown out on your own with no benefits, no agency and no representation, then in one fell swoop you both discourage slaves from wanting to be free while ensuring that those that do free themselves are unlikely to stay that way for very long.
The Accipian empire is quite transparently one that does not treat its people as having inherent value or more than a minimum of rights and agency for the sake of being its people alone. Citizenship -- and thus a modicum of ability to protect yourself and your own -- is not the default. As you pointed out, free Accipians who are not affiliated with a House or the imperial government have no guarantee of anything -- and this should not be considered an acceptable sate of affairs. Yes, it's more advantageous to be a slave than a free non-citizen, but this does not mean that being a slave is good on its own merits -- the way that people like House Vengeance have been explicitly shown as treating their slaves is proof enough of that. It simply means that free non-citizens are treated like crap. It's not a point in favor of slavery, it's another thing that the griffons do that should not be happening.
The myth of the well-treated and happy slaves is a fable, and one that needs to die out. Slaves in the antebellum South were beaten, raped and worked like pack animals with regularity, this is no particular secret. To slave owners, slaves were livestock and to be treated as such.
8954422
Not that I recall. Unless I misremember, I don't think we've seen free zebras or minotaurs either.
8954001
A technicality at best, but a couple chapters back it was implied that the yaks are independent by virtue of living in a place no one else can eke out a living in without a lot of magic. The issue, of course, is that they have no diplomacy skill whatsoever.