Gina knew this wasn’t going to be easy the instant she saw the griffons flying up from the city below. The settlement called Griffonstone was every bit as pathetic as the stories she’d heard, at least most of it was. There was new construction off on one side, a walled quarter that looked to be slowly growing. Smoke rose from some of the buildings there, and it seemed that was also the direction from which the newly arriving birds had flown.
Much more important than any change to the city, though, was the state of the birds leaving it. They weren’t just armed. In some ways, any bird old enough to sharpen their claws was armed. These birds had rifles. Metal rifles, polished sparkling and in the latest designs. Gina knew without knowing how she knew that there was no chance these guns could predate the treaty. Griffonstone was an indolent, decadent place, without previous contact since the entire clan had been defeated by Equestria. They would not have imported the guns, or learned their design from Accipio.
House Vengeance hadn’t just bent the treaty by coming here, or defied the will of the Alicorns by staying here. They’d made firearms. The very central tenet of the Pyroclastic Peace Accord was shattered here on a valley floor.
The smoke rising from below, the smoke smelling like sulfur—that would be the forges.
A bird landed on the deck of the Lapwing, his armor sparkling in the orange sunlight. None of these birds had actually drawn their rifles, but wore them all holstered. Signs of pride in what they’d done. Gina did not recognize any of them, though she did recognize the symbols on their armor. They were all religious symbols, of the sacred order of Unity. These were not soldiers at all, but monks.
Indeed, as she approached, their leader dropped into a bow before her, exposing his unprotected throat for a moment. It was the proper symbol of submission due to one wearing the imperial seal. She didn’t see any smugness on his face, either, or any pride at having defied the imperial will. The entire expedition was similar. They weren’t here to defend this place, not when none of them had drawn those rifles.
“Welcome to the Griffonstone Temple of Unity,” said the same monk who had bowed to her. “I am Gideon, I’m the hierodeacon here. I admit, I am surprised to see visitors here after Equestria chose such isolationist policies. I suppose they did not maintain them for long, eh?”
Gina stiffened a little. She glanced once over her shoulder to Isabel, and checked to see that Hogarth was on deck as well. One unicorn would not be enough against odds like this if it really came to violence. But she doubted it would, not with the way they were acting. Gina had no mind for war. Even so, she could tell that landing when they had the advantage of superior weapons was probably a bad idea.
“Wait, you know about the princess’s demands, and you’re still here?” Gina asked, making a note of that admission. In front of so many witnesses, too. It would not go well for them at trial.
“I think this is the wrong place for this conversation,” Gideon said. “Please, come back to Griffonstone with us. Your crew will be weary and your ship in need of supply. I know there are no more friendly ports all the way to New Scythia. Let me direct your captain to the dock.”
“You already built a dock?” Hookbeak asked, sounding impressed in spite of himself. “Out here surrounded by barbarians and exiles?”
Gideon nodded. Gina could see a few of the birds watching wince at those words, or stiffen with anger. Not all of these are from Vengeance, are they? We need to be careful what we say. Already she was beginning to see what Vengeance had done. Maybe Santiago hadn’t broken the treaty after all.
Just like we didn’t break it with pony slaves? I don’t think Equestria will be any happier about this than they were about the slaves. If anything, it would only be more evidence to them that griffons couldn’t be trusted to keep to the spirit of their words. More evidence that they couldn’t peacefully coexist.
“That sounds good to me, Captain,” Gina said, before captain Hookbeak was forced to answer for her. By sacred custom, an invitation to dock was as good as a guarantee of peace until they left port. Such traditions protected valuable ports and ships both, since powder magazines could destroy whole docks and kill many birds. The days of such guerilla tactics were over, even in house Vengeance. Though I wouldn’t put it past them to try and blow us up on our way out again.
“Excellent!” Gideon gestured, and most of the birds took to the air. “Return to your duties, all of you. I will direct this vessel.” Alone, Gina noticed. He would be easy to overpower now, even as the only one with a “real” weapon aboard. Well, except for Gina. She had Isabel. Yet he made his way to the helm without fear, trusting to the sacred tradition as much as they were.
Good. Guess this place is civilized after all.
Gina watched from the bow as they made their way down towards the city. There were signs that Griffonstone had been greater than it was—stone buildings that had slowly sunk into the sediment, replaced with cruder wooden structures. A great palace modeled on the work of the ancient master-stonemason Hadrianus, looking dark and abandoned and seriously in need of repair.
But then there was the monastery—or temple, as Gideon had called it. Temples were more than simple monasteries—to be called a temple, somewhere had to be so self-sufficient that it could survive with the gates closed for a year. Temples were also sacred places, which were not turned over to a conqueror in war even if the entire city fell. Indeed, if a bird counted every temple, there were over a dozen of the clans still surviving, with many defeated birds living on through service to Unity. Her own clan had such a temple—burned with the rest of Accipio now.
The docks were on the temple grounds, along with so much else. She had been right about the forge, but there were also large farms, a whole factory, and several shipping warehouses. What are they making in here? How much of it gets sent back to Accipio?
Gideon would have to answer some of those questions, but not all of them. “I can’t help but notice the weapon you’re carrying,” Gina said, as they slowed to approach the docks. There was only enough room for two airships here, neither one much larger than their own. That spoke to the amount of traffic through here. It was no center of trade yet. “Aren’t rifles forbidden by the Pyroclastic Accord?”
Gideon smiled knowingly at her. “You’ll find the exact words are different, Imperator…”
“Gina,” she answered.
“Gina, right. Well, if you’ve read the treaty, you’ll find that it requires that no bird bring firearms from Accipio, and that no Accipian freeman, citizen, or slave make or buy them. That no ship be armed with cannons.”
Gina’s eyes narrowed, staring at the gun, but she said nothing. The implication was obvious. Then what’s that?
“These weapons were not brought from the old territory—you can see the new design.” He removed the rifle from its strap, turning it over for her. No sign of hostility or violence, or defensiveness. Gideon thought he was well within the law, and completely secure in doing so. He removed the weapon's magazine, exposing the symbol stamped into the steel. “See here? That’s no house mark. That’s Griffonstone.” He gestured over his shoulder as they thumped against the dock. “This temple. Not one of these weapons was made by citizen, freeman, or slave of Accipio. Griffonstone birds made every one of them, and graciously gave them to us in gratitude for all we’ve done for their city. They were not purchased.” He returned the rifle to its strap. “As you can see, we have not violated the treaty. House Vengeance is a house of honor, the ponies had no reason to worry we would abuse their trust.”
Gina barely restrained a bitter laugh. He was right, though—there was no mistaking the reading. This was not a scenario the ponies had put into the treaty, even though it was obviously counter to what they wanted. They’re not going to like this.
“I’m here on official business, I’m afraid,” Gina said, removing the seal from around her neck and holding it out towards Gideon. He took it, ran one claw over the imperial seal, then passed it back.
“Indeed. It is unexpected to receive an officer as high as yourself. Will you join us for a meal before we speak of this? I can gather all the temple elders together. You can instruct us then.”
“Sure.” She secured the medallion around her neck again. “My crew could use the rest after our journey here.” She hesitated a second, glancing between the members of her staff that she’d brought. “But when your tour is complete, instruct the elders I want to have the meeting here, aboard the Lapwing. Not in the monastery. We will speak only of your success here during the meal.”
“Of course,” Gideon said. If he was put off, he managed not to show it.
So the crew disembarked—the birds did, anyway. As this was a sacred place, none of the non-griffons would be allowed to depart. Gina donned the traditional robes with the others, and followed Gideon for a tour of his temple. He was proud to show it off, and she could see why. The exiles were the ones who did most of the work here. They were succeeding with remarkable speed, taking to the old Accipian ways without much resistance. It was an impressive transformation; one Gina would’ve admired if they weren’t being used to make firearms.
Despite the struggles in the south, they ate fresh vegetables and even more freshly caught river-trout for dinner, served with almost the same spices they would’ve been in her homeland. Gina met many of the monks, and learned that most of them were exiles. Every master craftsman who was not an exile had one or two apprentices who were, and whose work showed serious promise.
Most of them wanted to talk to her. They’d all heard of the emperor, and seemed to see him as an analogue to the princesses. That was true, in its way. She did her best to tell them only the truth about the royal family, and all the good it had done. Many expressed a desire to visit New Scythia when they got the chance, and to study in the temple there. She could only express her approval for such a righteous goal, and her wonder that such a significant change had taken only a few months.
Eventually, they found their way back aboard the Lapwing. Unlike the various monks, the elders were all from house Vengeance. She recognized several of them from the temple there. “I have bad news for all of you,” she said. “We will not be allowed to remain here. Every citizen of Accipio is being recalled. The Equestrians will not tolerate us here.”
“This is not their land,” answered Gideon, as though he had expected this. None of the other elders had weapons—Gideon was apparently also the master marksman of this temple, which was why he carried a rifle. “This is Griffonstone. They cannot banish us from here.”
“Unfortunately not,” Gina said. “Griffonstone is bound by pony laws. They did not cede the land to the exiles as they did to us—these birds settled here as conquered foes, not a pacified enemy committed to mutual peace. They require that every one of you leave the city immediately. I was afraid the Lapwing would not be large enough, but seeing your numbers… there are less than half as many as I expected. You will prepare tonight and leave with me come sunrise.” She rested one claw on the royal seal, tapping against it. “If Lord Santiago objects, he can raise that objection with the emperor. This is his decree.”
A murmur of discontent passed through the elders, though Gina couldn’t help getting the sense that some of it was for show. They didn’t even argue with her.
“It is a hard thing to leave so soon,” Gideon said. “Perhaps you would grant us leave to prepare until noon, instead?”
Imperial demands were required to be obeyed within the day they were received. But technically, she hadn’t told them about it until now. They could’ve insisted on not leaving until midnight tomorrow. “That is acceptable,” she said. “I want a list of every name in this monastery, signed and sworn. Not one of you will be remaining here after we leave.” She lowered her voice. “We’ve already done enough to anger the Equestrians. We will not defy them in this too.”
“Of course,” Gideon said, putting up one defensive claw. “We are always ready to obey the commands of the emperor. This temple can continue without us.”
Oh, come on. They cannot be this stupid.
Actually, Griffonstone is not part of Equestria. I looked it up. The description says it is east of Equestria, not part of it. In fact, it's listed as beyond Equestria. Meaning Celestia doesn't rule there. And it is not bound by pony laws.
Heck, if you watch the season 8 premier, it pretty much shows that Yakyakastan, the Changeling Hive, The Dragonlands, and Griffinstone are not bound by pony laws, because they are not part of Equestria.
8868786
Sadly I think they are.
8868786
Why? They're bound by Honour to obey and not kill the crew until the ship leaves port.
Totally nothing to worry about.
8868801
They are likely a protectorate. And at this point Equestira wouldn't care. The have yet another treaty issue. May not be violating the letter of the law but clearly the spirit.
So, three questions I got from this chapter:
Firstly, I wonder how much influence have the Accipian griffons had on Griffonstone. They've clearly had some already, but how much of their values have the Griffonstonians actually absorbed? I also wonder what Gilda is making of all this.
Secondly, I wonder how serious Gideon was about this bit:
Because it's pretty obvious that this would give the ponies plenty of reasons to worry that Accipio will abuse their trust.
If he was lying, then he was lying. Not much to analyze there -- he knew they were trampling all over their nation's agreement and this is all a pretense of honor while pushing their self interest. If he was sincere, however, it would say some interesting things about the Accipian view of the whole business. From a strictly legal letter-of-the-law point of view, they've done nothing wrong, and I suspect from the griffon points of view that we've had that most griffons, or at least ones like Gideon, genuinely don't see how anything they've done is wrong. They've kept to their agreement, haven't they?
No one does evil or immoral acts while thinking of themselves as evil or in the wrong. Either they don't care one way or the other, which is what I think is going on with the Vengeance higher-ups, or they think of themselves as in the right. This seems to be where Gina and Velar are coming from, and I think it might be where Gideon is coming from too. It genuinely doesn't dawn on them that the Equestrians might take offense to them weaseling out of every pact they've made on technicalities, which is probably why it keeps blindsiding them when Equestria keeps taking offense to them taking from it while giving nothing.
On a tangent, behavior like this is going to harm the possibility of a peaceful diplomatic resolution. Every loophole they exploit gives Equestria less reasons to want to meet Accipio at a bargaining table -- soon enough, they won't exactly have many reasons to expect Accipio to stick to any bargain they make, so what's the use of making more?
Thirdly, I doubt that the Vengeance expedition is going to just peacefully file aboard the ship and go home, so what are they up to?
Whole lot of idiot sticks people are getting hit with in the recent chapters of this story....
8868823
It's blatantly obvious that, if Vengeance isn't actually planning to kill everyone aboard the ship, they're setting up for a future move where they can use Griffonstone as a stepping stone to circumvent Equestria's diplomacy without actually breaking the rules of any established treaties.
However, the other possibility is that Vengeance is fully planning to break away from New Scythia and conquer Griffonstone simply through the influence of their religion. It wouldn't be impossible, seeing how Griffonstone just decided to cave entirely and let them take over and start manufacturing new guns.
8868823
That much is obvious. An assassination attempt on the Emperor's heir? Arms being crafted and supplied to house Vengeance in secrecy? They're preparing to become the new leading house, arming themselves to take over Accipio by force if necessary and building up for an invasion of Equestria, the delay is just more prep time to get things done to support that.
Vengeance has absolutely zero intent to uphold the treaty. They're merely using it as a shield to let them prepare for the moment they break it openly.
I feel like this entire fimfiction could be retitled, "101 Ways To Duck The Rules Politically". At least they couldn't argue against the point that their assumption Griffonstone didn't count as Pony Lands was soundly wrong (also they totally could have found that out themselves, so they are either really stupid, not doing their homework, or feigning ignorance.)
The Lapwing getting searched on the way back just got that much more complicated.
That Equestrian ship is not very likely to take "these guns are legal under the treaty" very seriously as an argument, particularly from griffons in the country illegally and in possession of a unicorn slave.
The griffon way is the wording of the contract, and the pony way is the spirit of the contract.
Interesting contrast, considering the Scythian's emphasis on honour.
I'm with Titan on this. Canonically Giffonstone isn't even close to being part of Equestria. They're acrost a sea. It would be fine if they were defeated by Equestria once but I don't believe I could come to accept is as any part of Equestria. I love the story as much as anyone here but if I might please ask take the official geology of the canon to heart.
The loophole abuse and mental gymnastics taken by the griffins is staggering. This is exactly the reason I hate real world politics.
8868923
Couldn't have put it better myself.
8868946
Just a quick point: Alaska, Hawaii and Puerto Rico are all considered parts of the USA. Going back in history, the colonies of places like Britain, France and Spain were considered parts of the countries, even when they swapped owners. Might be a similar thing here. Just because it's Geographically distant doesn't mean it's not still considered part of Equestria Politically. And this story is all about the politics.
8868946
Then how did Dash and Pinkie get there then. Never once were they seem taking a boat.
8869050
Going by the official map, there's a railway bridge across a strait.
4.bp.blogspot.com/-uj5l0C_W9Ps/Vh9gxWnaXKI/AAAAAAAAA98/kYLCGxpkHmI/s1600/eq_map.jpg
The sheer incompetence of this treaty author stretches suspension of disbelief to the limit. Actually, if not explained this breaks it entirely. The slaves thing was bad enough. Extremely basic legal concepts: possession, manufacture, trafficking, sale. There's absolutely NO reason for any legal expert in any theoretical universe with beings possessing human-like intelligence and governments bearing even the slightest resemblance to our own to be ignorant of these concepts. They arise from basic logic like 40 seconds after you start thinking about regulation for the first time.
8869068
still close enough to be a part of Equestria. Like Alaska, or Hawawii
8869100
So the whole issue with the eruption of the volcano happening in the coming weeks wouldn't have been a huge distraction for everyone, and might've motivated some to not spend what little time was had going over every little sentence with a fine-tooth comb?
Ugh, come on. Why would Equestria make the firearm clause with such an absurdly specific and detrimental loophole? Are there other sources of firearms that they were fine with? The slave matter was one thing, but this treaty must have been drafted by a toddler. Gina's conniving thoughts on the matter pretty much seals the deal on the griffins- they are all villains that need to be pacified before they fly out of control. If Celestia doesn't immediately declare war when this comes to light, then I'll be simply flabbergasted.
You know, I think the Griffins remind me a lot of the Cardassians.
They always bend the rules in such a way that they can believe they're not doing anything wrong, yet still maintain that they're an honorable race.
They claim not to treat other species as 'inferior' but their system of slavery/free citizenry is counter-intuitive to that.
Most of them honestly cannot comprehend why the Federation/Equestria distrusts them so much.
Hell, for all we know, they might have the genocide bit down too, we still haven't gotten an elaboration on the veal, but if they do (or did) slaughter hundreds of thousands of sapient lifeforms, then all we're missing is the part where they A.) Ally themselves with a much more evil force, The Dominion/(Maybe Chrysalis?) in an attempt to conquer the Alpha Quadrant/Equestria. B.) A small group of Griffins/Cardassians lead a rebellion against the ruling party Damar & Garak/Velar & Gina?/Gilda? C.) When the Empire is defeated by the Alpha Quadrant/Equestria, the Cardassians/Griffins are slaughtered in the millions/thousands when The Dominion/Changelings turn on them at the end.
8869130
Distraction or haste wouldn't cause that. I'm not even a lawyer, but I know that to anyone who is, that kind of language is totally second nature. It's like breathing. Even a hastily constructed draft in 30 minutes should have been 1,000,000x better than what they got. But they had DAYS! It makes no sense. I can't suspend my disbelief unless I imagine that it was somehow intentional sabotage or infiltration.
8869159
That is kinda the problem I'm having with the story so far, both with this and the slave thing. Equestria apparently doesn't have even the concept of a "legal expert" to whom they could refer to examine the language of a treaty before signing it.
8868786
If they have enough guns the griffons probably can be this stupid.
Politics growing out of gun barrels and all that.
8868867
This is going to lead to civil war if the emperor intends to uphold whatever remains of the treaty. Vengeance needs to be cut out.
If he cannot or is unwilling to stop this he might as well plan an invasion into equestria himself. At least that way he's more likely to successfully pull off a murder-suicide.
8868952
Realistic scenarios but nothing starts a war faster than a threat to national security.
I think Starlight is not an experienced diplomat and Celestia and the ponies were in a hurry to prevent genocide even knowing the potential for abuse. Celestia may have known but decided that reforming the evacuees is worth the trouble relative to the bloodbath that would have resulted if she had been unwilling to negotiate.
Its the Merrial boatlift... sometimes you get a guy like scarface.
8869159
thats some equestrian bias right there
8869517
Are you kidding me, dude? The griffins basically don't give two shits about the treaty. And I'm not buying the Lawful Stupid overdrive they keep saying to each other and ponies, because their thought bubbles, so to speak, betray their true motives and feelings. As far as I'm concerned even Griffinstone is on thin ice here, and they appear to more or less be Equestrian citizens. Either they were tricked/sweet talked by the Accpian griffins, or they felt immense resentment over their forgotten heritage and knowingly aided an increasingly hostile foreign power, which dare I assume is considered treason in this 'verse. Assuming Equestria even knows what that word means.
8869544
yes, because diplomatic loopholes are so strange and don't happen all of the fucking time
8869552
When they are being used as the basis for goddamn slavery and the production and distribution of weapons of war, I'm quite certain loopholes are not tolerated in civilized society.
8869579
the second one happens all the goddamn time and the first one: it isn't slavery in general, just the slavery of one race in particular
8869595
They don't happen because of legal loopholes, they happen because no one country can freely police another without essentially conquering it first. Slavery in all its forms is still illegal the world over where laws actually exist, and the legality of firearms varies from nation to nation, but in the context of this story, they are obviously illegal in Equestria.
8868814
8868786
I'm with the Admiral on this. In the context of this fic, Griffonstone is part of Equestria; not just the landmass (as Grandpa Gruff noted in the show) but its political system, likely as a protectorate, much like the Crystal Empire. They just didn't interfere much before, because Griffons are notoriously prideful. And greedy, but that's another matter.
As it is, if even the Griffons are starting to wonder about how much they are abusing Equestrian goodwill, things are looking rather dire. It's coming to a point where they can't even swallow their own bullsh*t anymore.
8869517
Dude come on. The Griffins are basically saying "Hey, thanks for saving our people and culture, but fuck you, and fuck this treaty, we're gonna do whatever we want and if you try to stop us then you're the aggressors."
They are making next to no effort to hide the contempt they hold for Equestria, the Princesses, and Ponies in general, and are clearly doing everything they can to ready themselves for a hostile invasion of the country that saved them.
House vengeance does not intend to follow the treaty. I think if you look back through the first chapters, the open hostility of house vengeance towards Equestria is pretty apparent.
Keep in mind that it isn't "the griffons" that are abusing the treaty, it is certain subsets of griffons. We aren't being shown the griffons who aren't involved with any bending of the rules, though they must exist. They just aren't relevant
I foresee Griffonstone fighting for full independence with the help of this clan. There's the possibility its not entirely unwarranted either. If Griffonstone was conquered by Equestria and turned into such a shitty region with no signs of influence or even basic assistance from the crown I fully expect them to split entirely from Equestria. The clan is giving Griffonstone everything it needs to fight for independence. Weapons, ports, crafters, builders, infrastructure. Griffonstone is also strategicly placed across a sea with its back to mountains sure to contain many vital ores for supplies. With a strategic securing of that bridge to the north I couldn't see Equestria easily regaining that territory. Especially when their military needs to stay homebound to deal with any potential war with the rest of the gryphons.
8869499
Nah, unless guns can steamroll ponies an invasion of Equestria is doomed to fail. Accipio is already low on supplies and they don't have a massive empire to fall back to anymore. Once the war starts food will run low and eventually out, leading to stagnation of the war and eventual starvation if they try to continue regardless.
The only question left is how much of Equestria will the gryphons drag down with them.
8870123
Hence why I said "murder-suicide". Given equestria's fear of possible societal collapse in the aftermath, there's a good chance that the griffon will take a good chunk of equestria with it. Especially with the increasing number of firearms.
8869806
House virtue may consider them terrorists or rebels and a civil war will probably break out. It's be a fight for the people's hearts and minds. Equestria cannot deal with this threat for the reasons you said. Loyalist griffons will have to solve this problem.
8869513
Exactly.
It was implied that had equestria not formed a treaty, the griffons would have immediately gone to war for survival.
Forming the treaty wasn't really an option.
Though I don't know why she would expect to reform griffon society.
And things just keep getting more belligerent.
Yeah, that weapons clause does feel a little contrived to allow this to happen, but to be fair to Starlight or whomever drafted it, could they really have expected that the Griffonstonians or anyone else settled in Equestria would have the capacity or the will to arm the Accipians?
8869601
yet it was legal for a long time in the civilized world as well in the past.
8869544
The griffons were an allied power, so not treason. There is no state of war or open hostilities. They are running guns. Like Hancock, Hamilton, Adams, Washington, all were smugglers and tax evaders who straddled the law and ignored the desires of the British.
.The obvious solution here is a political marriage. Give all the pony slaves as a wedding gift.
8870547
It sure sounds like they're Equestrian citizens. At the very least they're bound by Equestrian law. So knowingly aiding an enemy/subverting your country/ally still sounds like treason to me. It's blatantly hostile to Equestria, at the very least. Also, the founding fathers literally comitted treason. But their side won, so it didn't matter. It was still treason, though.
8870562
They are Criminals, and possibly not even that. Treason is a very specific thing. If they had aided the french when they were at war, that would be treason. Or arming hostile native tribes. Running guns or even selling them is illegal but not aiding a rebellion or hostile foreign power (which is treason).
8870575
Criminals, what? Criminals the founding fathers?
8870575
Okay what the heck are you going on about? They literally rebelled, which as you said is treason. I also don't wanna talk about the revolution, how did this topic get derailed into this?