6. Fear And Desire
The Conversion Bureau
HUMAN
in Equestria
By Chatoyance
6. Fear And Desire
The border of the Everfree looked a bit gloomy, but it did not seem the least bit dangerous. As the children and Equestrians passed into it, only the latter seemed afraid, despite the discussion earlier. The children had been expecting to be pounced upon by dreadful horrors before they had even drawn near to the woods. When nothing at all happened, they began to doubt the worries of pigs and ponies entirely.
Milo, who felt himself every bit as studied about the old, pre-ecodisaster earth as Petra, insisted that the Everfree resembled the Northamerizonian Everglades more than the Amazon. Petra quite disagreed with the boy and the two got into an argument until Plantain and the pigs interrupted them with a lecture on the value of being quiet and unseen in what they considered a very dangerous place.
"We have been walking now for quite some time, I should say an hour at the least, and I honestly do not see what is so terrifying about this forest." Petra's stomach was unsettled from the somewhat green fruit that Plantain had found for them to eat. It had been sour and not entirely ripe, and all of the children were feeling somewhat cranky from it. The only child not perpetually upset was Isla, who somehow always seemed to be quite unreasonably quiet. Then again, she was perpetually entranced with the little bunny Crème, which seemed to sooth her greatly.
"I am surprised that you can't feel it! All the newfoals I've known told me that humans can sense magic, that it makes them feel strange, or sick, or that it burns them. If anything, humans are supposed to be overly sensitive to magic! I can certainly feel it, everywhere around us, and it is not nice magic at all. It is wild and strange and chaotic. I feel as if I were being hunted by griffons!" Plantain shivered at the thought. She had heard stories of the days, centuries ago, before the Pax Equestria.
"Celestia and Luna reconstructed us, Plantain. The only reason we can be here and not be ponies is that the princesses remade us out of the stuff of Equestria." Petra pushed her way through thick, dangling vines and wide, enormous leaves. "I suppose we were remapped like double-H-Gee objects into some different format."
"Double... H... gee?" Plantain hopped over a fallen log, trying to stay side-by-side with Petra.
"HHG... Holographic Hypernet Graphics. It's a graphics thing they used on the hypernet. You could see it on a screen or just download it right into your head if you had the right implants. I once had a quite lovely art program I would play with back in Antarctica. I made a very nice model of princess Celestia within it, and uploaded it to... well, never mind. I dare say it doesn't matter anymore." Petra realized she felt thirsty, and hot, and that she was not at all happy.
"Plantain, is there any water about? I am ever so dry, and I think we could all use something to drink again." Petra looked about, hoping to see a stream or a river, or even a clear spot to sit down for a while. "Also, I could use a rest."
The chestnut pony began sniffing intently at the air, trying to concentrate. It was difficult because the children behind Petra were still jabbering about various things despite the constant requests to be quiet in the forest.
There was no water immediately nearby, but Plantain's sensitive ears did hear the sound of faint, playful yips. "I think I've found a safe place to rest for a while. No water yet."
"Please guide us then, if you please." Petra turned to the children, pigs and chickens who had caught up. "We are going to take a rest for a while just ahead."
"I'm thirsty!" Isla normally said little, when she did speak it was usually serious. The little girl must be very thirsty indeed.
"Plantain hasn't found water yet, but I am sure she will. I'm sorry, Isla, please try to be strong!" Petra felt the dryness of her own throat. Her lips felt dry too.
As the children followed Plantain, the soft sound of yapping and the occasional canine bark filled their ears. It was not constant but occasional, yet the voices of playful pups were unmistakable.
Plantain led the group to a wide clearing in the thick verdancy. The sound of puppies seemed to come from the clearing, from everywhere and nowhere.
"Little doggies?" Isla scanned the area but saw no wagging tails nor padding paws.
"What, invisible dogs? Where is that noise coming from?" Asher didn't seem overly happy about puppies, which surprised no one.
"Dogwood trees." Plantain sat down with a huff. She was tired too.
"You're making that up!" Seraphina half laughed and half accused as she found a fallen log to rest on.
"What?" Plantain decided to fold her foreknees and lay down entirely. Ah... that was better.
"You're making fun of us. Dogwoods. Because of the barking." Seraphina tried to comb her hair with her fingers, but it wasn't working very well.
"That's whats making the sound. All around us. They like clearings for some reason." Plantain poked a hoof at some odd-looking, short, stumpy trees that surrounded the circular area. "Dogwood trees are good protection in the Everfree. Their barking scares away a lot of things. They like nice creatures, which is why they sound happy right now."
Seraphina and Petra and the other children fell quiet and listened carefully. Surely enough, the sound of happy yips, soft, playful growls, and panting could be heard from the odd, short trees.
Little Isla walked timorously to one of the small trees and noticed it was covered in short fibers, almost like fur. She stretched out a hand, slowly, and stroked the fibers. The tree made cute sounds, as if it were happy at the touch. "It likes me!" Isla smiled and began patting the little tree in earnest. It produced a friendly bark.
"This is just..." Asher shook his head. "Your world is nuts, pony... Dog Wood trees... what's next? Snow Bunnies?"
Crème ran to Plantain and clutched her leg. Plantain gave her friend a nuzzle. "Oh, you wouldn't want to run into one of those."
Asher seemed startled, then developed an incredulous half-grin. "Really." Plantain seemed serious. "What can a snow bunny do? Cuddle you to death?"
Plantain stared at the boy. "Hardly. Snow Bunnies are mostly peaceful. They hide out during the day. But if something scary startles them, they can freeze everything around them. The cold just spreads, turning things to ice, frosting over plant and animal alike. It's horrifying, Asher. Snow Bunnies are worse than Timber Wolves. You can outrun a Timber Wolf, or kick it into sticks if you get cornered. But Snow Bunnies..."
"Wait... what do you mean..." Asher felt more than confused. His brain had jumped directly to being perplexed, bypassing befuddlement all together. "You can't kick a wolf into sticks!"
"Of course you can. If you can buck them hard enough. And if it isn't a really big one. The big ones aren't made of sticks, the really big ones are made out of entire trees!" Plantain could see Asher simply didn't believe a word she was saying, but for the life of her, she could not understand why.
A rustling sound came from the place where Isla sat. What looked like a lumpen mass of lush green leaves was stumping around on two tiny, short legs made of twisted roots. The small plant-creature seemed to be playing with Isla, who for her part began to giggle as she wiggled her fingers low for the emerald biped of foliage to follow.
Asher stood transfixed, his perplexity sublimated into an instantaneous state of helpless stupefaction. "What..."
The other children clustered together, all astonished, all watching Isla play with what looked like a little animated topiary.
"A Bush Baby!" Plantain seemed happy. "Oh, that's a very good sign! If there are Bush Babies about, then this is an especially safe spot! Poor little things are easily caught and devoured, so you can only find them where nasty things aren't."
Asher, regaining some of his wits, studied the living plant creature and finally dared to offer his thoughts. "I guess a 'Timber Wolf' in this world is made out of..."
"Made out of branches and wood. Of course. What else could it be?" Plantain relaxed, feeling relieved that there was no current danger. "I couldn't understand why you seemed to not believe what I had to say - you had clearly heard of Snow Bunnies before."
Asher sat down on the ground, watching the Bush Baby struggle to climb up on the log where Isla sat. Isla reached down and picked the little, squirming mass of leaves up. It seemed to want to be held, and relaxed in her arms. Isla began cooing to the bizarre creature, which only appeared to make it happier.
As Plantain watched, a tear slid slowly down Asher's cheek. He turned away and began poking the ground with a stick. She wanted to find out what was bothering him - any pony would have felt the same way - but she had dealt with enough newfoals to know that humans were sometimes odd about sharing their emotions.
"Plantain?" Petra sat down on the ground next to her and allowed Crème to climb into her lap. With Isla occupied, Crème almost seemed jealous, so Petra gave the little doe a proper scratching around the ears, under the brim of the bunny's hat.
"Mnn?" Plantain was still pondering the mystery of Asher.
"After the princesses change us into proper ponies..." Of course they would, Petra thought. Surely they would. Luna had said as much - Petra had remembered her final words to her. The princesses would definitely change them. "...then what? We can't go back to our parents, they wouldn't want us in the least, and I certainly wouldn't want to face my mother's wrath in any body, pony or human. Are there... some kind of child services in Equestria? Is there a place for fillies without a home?" The last thing Petra wanted to say was 'orphanage', but it was certainly what she was thinking.
Plantain snapped back from considering the tear on Asher's cheek and turned to Petra. "Um... no. There's no place, no specific place anyway, for fillies without homes. Because that just doesn't happen. Ponies don't foal very often, so fillies and colts are very treasured. I've heard that humans on earth had lots and lots of babies, most of them unwanted. There are lots of foalless ponies who would be more than happy to give all of you homes! You'll have ponies begging you to join their families."
"Oh... that's right." Petra remembered reading an article on the hypernet about how the Equestrians had very low birth rates. They lived a very long time and had very few children. Entire towns might have no more than ten or twenty foals at any given time. Once the children were transformed, they would all become what Father would have called a 'high value commodity'.
"Won't we just be shipped out to those 'Exponential Lands' that were made out of the earth? We would be newfoals then, after all." Seraphina almost sounded bitter. "I think being changed will be our first and last look at Canterlot."
"Oh, please don't be that way, Seraphina!" Petra had noted the intonation of the older girl. "There were billions and billions of us on the earth and not even a single billion of the ponies - even including the dragons, dogs and other creatures of Equestria! Where else could they put all of us? If all the humans tried to live in the Equestria we've heard about, there would be no room for anyone to even sit down!"
Seraphina hung her head. "I know. I know." She looked up and made another attempt to straighten her tangled hair. Sleeping on the ground had been difficult for all of the children. "It's just that I've heard stories that they have to start from scratch out there, and I'm not keen on physical labor of any sort."
"Maybe not now..." Plantain shifted so that her hind legs were more comfortable. "But if you become an earthpony like me, using your body will become a joy. I promise!" Plantain smiled. "Newfoals I've talked to who became earthponies say they feel a hundred times stronger and lots more powerful. I've seen grown-up newfoals just run around all day long like colts and fillies just because they could. They were eager to pull and lift and haul things, because they said it felt good!"
"What if I don't become an earthpony like you?" Seraphina was not convinced.
"It's kinda the same, really, only with other abilities. The unicorns aren't strong, but they can do magic, and the newfoals who became unicorns that I know can't seem to get enough chances to use their horns. The pegasai... you can't keep 'em on the ground. One of the best fliers I've ever met was a newfoal pegasus. Thunder Road - she worked her way up into owning a carriage service, then joined the Happy Pony show. She used to give rides through storms, but then she found her real calling was aerial ballet! When she flew, even when it was hard to do, she had to fight from grinning.
"Seriously. Thunder'd do these moody dance pieces and grin like a hinny the whole time. Paine used to get upset." Plantain recalled the bright red pegasus mare nearly laughing with delight while dancing in the air to the most somber music.
Milo, who had sat down nearby to listen in, leaned forward. "Don't you mean 'grin like a ninny?'"
"What's a 'Ninny'?" Plantain scratched her head with a hoof.
"Petra..." Seraphina had given up trying to do anything about her hair, and was pointlessly attempting to scrape a stain off of her clothing. "Why do you want to be a pony? I mean... you're a Bettencourt. I would have assumed that..." The older girl's voice trailed off. She was unsure how to phrase anything beyond that point.
"It's not simple rebellion, or anything like that." Petra rubbed her sore legs. This journey had been the most physical activity any of the children had ever done, except for Asher, who claimed to have gone climbing in the mountains of Antarctica with his uncle. "I... I truly fell in love with the princess, and with the things she told me about Equestria. I watched every program and read every article that my caretakers would allow. When Celestia was forced to leave by the rules of the Covenant, I was ever so sad. But I found a program, a program about a human girl going through a Bureau. More than anything in both worlds, I wanted to do the same. But... I was forbidden."
"No... that's not quite what I mean." Seraphina struggled for a while, inside her head, trying to find just the right words. At the edge of the clearing, Isla had sung the little Bush Baby to sleep. Now she was rocking it in her arms. Seraphina looked back at Petra. "What I am asking is... what is it about actually being a pony... that makes you want to be one. It will be forever, for the rest of our lives you know."
Petra smiled, not a Bettencourt smile at all, but a very rare thing instead, a genuine Petra smile. "Oh! Where to begin! I want to run and play and feel the wind in my mane! I want to be just another pony, and not some... well, 'Bettencourt'. I want to belong to Celestia, so that she can never be taken away again. I don't care at all what kind of pony I should become. Whatever type I would be happy, and dance upon my lovely hooves in gratitude!"
Seraphina became thoughtful, taking that in. Milo crawled closer, fully engaged now. "That's not enough. You can run and feel the wind in your hair now. I understand the bit about Celestia. I think we all do." Milo noted the 'humph' from Asher, behind him. "Most of us, anyway. I'd also like to know what being a pony really means. To you."
Petra became quiet. Her innocent smile died on her face. "Celestia told me ponies don't think like we do. Not entirely. Sometimes... sometimes I think very bad thoughts. I think terrible things about simply everyone. When I have been very, very cross with mother, I have wanted her to be killed in front of me. Not quickly, but quite slowly, with a very great deal of screaming and begging for mercy. I have wanted to see her taken apart, bit by bit, until all she could do is flail her stumps at me and beg me to spare her life. I have wanted to take her eyes and make them my marbles."
Plantain was rigid, every muscle in her pony body on alert. This was not the simple matter of when humans swore and the emotional violence that felt disturbing in the moment. The fact that her friend Petra could even imagine such terrible... whatever it was. Plantain's mind slipped around a sudden void in her memory where the awful things were that Petra had just spoken, a protective pony thought cocoon that she could sense but thankfully not penetrate. The fact that Petra could... say... whatever it was that she had said... deeply disturbed and frightened Plantain.
Her newfoal friends in the Happy Pony Show had tried to explain to her that humans had been dangerous, that even the nicest of them were capable of thinking the most truly terrible thoughts. But - because they had been ponified - it had been impossible for her newfoal friends to explain what those terrible thoughts actually were.
Now, she had heard something of what humans could think about that ponies could not, and the feeling of it made Plantain want to jump up and gallop as fast as she could far, far away, in any direction so long as it wasn't here. Her very coat felt like it was rippling over her muscles, trying to move just a little further away from Petra's body heat. Plantain calmed herself by remembering that in all of this time, Petra had been nothing but sweet, and that almost certainly the other human children surrounding her never thought things like that.
"Oh, god. I am so glad you said that." Milo breathed out a sigh of relief. "Me too. All the time. Hell, I've wanted to hammer the brains right out of the heads of some of the kids in Paris. I almost did too - I had a hammer, it had this really sharp end, and there was this one kid, and I was sure I could get away with it. Would have too, if it hadn't been for..." Milo took another deep breath. "Anyway, after Celestia, I never, ever wanted to think stuff like that again. I'm glad I didn't hurt that kid but... I was really angry. I planned it all out and everything. I would have done it, too. I want to be a pony so I never, ever have to feel that way again."
"I think we're all agreed then!" Seraphina laughed and Milo and Petra joined in. "We don't like our angry dark sides one bit. I would also add that I don't want to end up like my parents. My mother is such a narrow, bigoted thing. She hates all sorts of people for the dumbest of reasons. My father only cares about power and who is at which rank or in what circle. I don't want any part of that! When I look at ponies, I see a life where everyone just... well... is. They can be friends and never worry that someday..."
"That someday they'll get stabbed in the back." Asher had finally turned around. "That's what it's all about, really. Deep down, every man has his price. That's what my dad says. Your own family will cut your throat, if the price is right. You can't trust anyone human." Asher studied the other children with narrowed eyes. "Or any special pony who deals with humans."
Nobody imagined he wasn't referring to Celestia. It was obvious he meant Celestia.
Plantain had watched as Crème slowly, like a little fuzzy spider, crept out of Petra's lap without her even noticing. Crème was now pressed against the back of Plantain's neck, having covered herself with long strands of yellow mane. Plantain could feel the bunny clinging so tightly that her withers hurt from the grasp of little, frightened paws.
Isla joined the group, having left the sleeping Bush Baby on the ground by the log. The little girl sat down next to Oliver, who had been quietly listening the whole time. Isla gave Oliver a little squeeze after she was settled. "I think bad thoughts sometimes, too."
Seraphina turned to Isla. "Is that why you want to be a pony, Isla? To make the bad thoughts go away?"
Isla was looking around for Crème, but the little bunny was well hidden in Plantain's mane. Finally she looked up at Seraphina.
"Yes. That and... I don't like how people treat each other." Isla put her arm through Oliver's surprising him. She nibbled on the index finger of her other hand for a moment. "I don't like how my daddy looks down on the other families, or how everyone looks down on Oliver."
Oliver found something on the ground very interesting.
"But what about all the court ponies in Canterlot? That's the same thing!" Milo was not persuaded by Isla in the least.
"Yes... they have that. But that court stuff isn't for life. Plantain's mother wanted her to be a court pony. With us... you're stuck." Isla gave Oliver's arm a hug. "When we're ponies, Oliver, we're gonna all be ponies, and nopony looks down on any other pony."
"Oliver." Petra found herself curious. "Why do you want to be a pony?"
Oliver seemed startled at the question. Also nervous. "All of those reasons. And..."
The breeze rustled the treetops. No pegasus had generated it. Only the Equestrians found this eerie and disturbing. Plantain watched the little Bush Baby wake up and stand. After shaking it's leaves, it ran off into the forest, apparently in quite a hurry.
"And...?" Petra coaxed.
Oliver seemed very far away, and not a little frightened. "I don't know."
It seemed very much to everyone that he did know, but that he just didn't want to say. For a while, all that could be heard was the sound of the Dog Woods growling at the edge of the clearing. Nobody knew quite what to say, and it was clear that Oliver did not want to be asked any more questions.
Finally, Petra turned to Asher. With her, every eye - except for Oliver - also turned to Asher. Asher finally broke when he saw the chickens join the pigs in staring at him.
"You wanna know why I want to be a pony?" Asher stood up, and stretched his legs. He brushed the forest from his pants. "I know what you think. Asher - he's an asshole. Don't even bother, Seraphina - 'Oh!'" he mocked "'Dear me! I can't even imagine you as a pony!' Suck it, Sera! I have as much reason as any of you dorks to be a pony. More, if you only knew. So just leave me alone!"
"But... we really do want to know." Seraphina felt bad for what she had said the day before. "I'm sorry for what I said, but you have been a bit... well, rude."
"Yeah! Yeah, maybe I have been rude! Maybe I'm angry, maybe..."
Asher never got to finish his statement because that was the very moment something snakelike, pitch black and strangely shimmery scraped the top of his scalp straight off of his naked skull. Asher didn't even make a sound as he fell, in shock, to his knees, the blood beginning to trickle down his face.
The dying skin and hair that had previously covered the top of the boy's head fell with a plop into the leaves beside him.
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The Everfree Forest seems to share a border with Xanth.
2858485
How would things like the Featured Box work with a vote-free FiMFic?
Huh, I believe that's what you call a wham chapter. My only real complaint - and one I'm not sure is entirely valid, given the completely fucked up upbringing I can totally see them having - is that these children alternate between horribly, horribly naive and terribly philosophically deep, whilst at the same time of being aware of their existential mores yet entirely not understanding them.
Plantain and Crème are going to need therapy after this, and not to belittle the situation with Asher, but I really wanted to know what he was going to say... Considering what's at stake, I want them all to pull through, but I'm a bit pressed to see how they are going to get through this without a loss... Does Zecora still live in the Everfree?
2858648
The feature-box is an easily-gamed joke. Kill it with fire.
This is a known failure-mode of online popularity voting:
===
Note to self: if you ever go to Equestria, look into keeping a dogwood grove.
2858792
I know it is, but the question still stands.
If voting was disabled, they couldn't use that method. I was interested in knowing what Chat would use instead of votes as a measure of getting on there in her version of the site.
2858807
My answer was serious. Get rid of it. It is of no actual value.
2858648
It probably wouldn't, and when I look at it... Good riddance!
2858827
I disagree: The feature box tells writes that you have to abide the lowest common denominator to be successful. Anyone ever wonder why we get so many bad HiE/sex fics? That why. Because the featurebox keeps the rat race going.
That is a value, a negative one.
2858827 2858832
Then all you have is a prettier Fanfiction.net focused on one fandom, pretty much.
2858839
You might want to look at what bookplayer wrote about
yesterdaytwo days ago. The Most Internally Linked stories on FiMfiction2858839
Are you seriously arguing that the feature box is the only thing making FiMFiction worthwhile? I don't hang out at Fanfiction.net, but does it have a similar groups and recommendations system? Does it allow "mature" fiction? Can you search by character and genre there? Does it have tight-knit communities within specific fandoms? Hay, if technical bits like the box were the only reason for being here, most of us would have left after all the
site-breaking changesupgrades we've had.2858865
...I don't see what that has to do with what I'm talking about.
How is that relevant to my statement that "it'd just be a prettier Fanfiction.net," a site with no voting or featured box, just focused on one fandom?
2858885
No, my main point is that the voting is a huge part of what makes this site worth it and better than Fanfiction.net. But, when you remove that, well... there's not too much different. That site may be quite a bit clunkier in its design, yes, but when you look at it from a purely functional perspective, well... there's not that much different if they were to remove things like voting and the box.
Yes, actually. The groups are forums, and the recommendations are user favorites and collections. It even sends you an email whenever someone adds your story to a collection.
Yes, to all of those.
.I suppose you could say that the user-created forums could lead to that, yes.
Probably because this site looks better and is designed better than that one. Without what makes this site unique, like voting, it just wouldn't be that much different.
2858891
I haven't been to ff.net since my stint in ranma-fanfiction in the early 200x years. Back then we didn't use it as more then a dump for the stories and everything about the community was handled in mailinglists. I doubt that it's still the same site. So I can't actually answer that, nor do I feel particularly compelled to do so.
But there are other ways to select a list of good stories than could replace the feature box. Of course, they all share one thing: they all can (and will) be exploited, because as long as there is a ladder, some ape will want to sit on the highest rung.
Why? Probably to fling poo at the world.
2858891
Internet popularity voting is of absolutely no value in ranking actual quality. Seriously, go read the studies. All it does is provide authors something meaningless to wave around, spammers an easy way to get views, and readers a "yay I participated" button to click. It certainly doesn't objectively raise the quality of FiMFiction.net above Fanfiction.net. Want to give useful feedback? Make intelligent comments. Want a way to find stories you'd actually like? Join groups with similar interests, and follow members with similar tastes. I don't ever visit the front page or feature box anymore, and my faves and read-later lists are still overflowing.
2859093
There's one small problem I see with that, though.
Intelligent comments take much longer to make when you're criticizing the story then when you're praising it.
With praise, all that's required to keep a level of basic decency is "This was a good story!" "I love this!" or something a long those lines. Authors generally don't care if you give reasons why, they just accept the praise and move on.
However, the same can't be said for criticism. "This was a bad story." and "I didn't like this." aren't good enough. You need reasons or you won't be tolerated, which brings up a problem.
If you were to remove voting, you might just find that "liking" a story or not saying anything at all would be much, much easier than "disliking" it. While some people might find that to be ideal, when you remove both the critics and the box on the front page that new writers delusionally aim for, where's the drive to improve?
(And no, I'm not saying that every single downvoter is a critic, I'm saying that there would generally be much less criticism overall if you were to remove voting.)
2859142
So, you're agreeing that people would have to provide constructive, useful criticism rather than the one-click equivalent of "meh", "eww", or "nope"? And it would mostly eliminate author-based drive-by smears against a fic? I fail to see the problem here.
2859211
And why should "yay" like" and "lol" be treated as completely fine in comparison?
2859211
Who defines constructive, useful criticism? I used to agree with your way of thinking - better to require comments than just a single click, as it promotes actual... ya know, thought... but the flip side of that argument is that then you get pages of 'Awesome fic! LOL!' or 'This sucked' instead.
Let people have their votes. Better an empty number than a meaningless post. Besides, for as many stinkers as it's given me, the feature box also led me to Arrow 18, Life and Times of the Winningest Pony, Eternal, Anthropology, and a slew of others that I've adored. It may be a flawed system, but it's still better than wading through pages and pages of Halo crossovers or what have you.
Something I've been pondering:
Given that Diamond Dogs, gryphons, and dragons are magical entities with souls, I assume they also have a reincarnation cycle/afterlife like ponies.
Do Celestia and Luna also oversee this, or do the predator races have their own branch of divine bureacracy that specifically handles their affairs?
2859222
Hey, I think that's silly too, so get rid of the thumbs-up button as well, and feel free to call-out/delete one-word comments. But at least they're not artificially promoting or hiding fics like the current system does.
2859497
Whoever moderates the comment section would be in charge of that. So in this case, mods and the author, I'd assume. Start deleting one-word spam comments, and that problem goes away too. And if people didn't pay attention to that "empty number", I'd agree with you, but the evidence shows that the votes matter as much or more than the actual quality of the story when a potential reader wanders past.
2859524
And what happens when the authors get that kind of control over what shows up in their comment section, which would be the most visible place for opinions of their work in a voteless FiMFic? Do you really expect them to only go for the one-word responses?
Maybe if Asher weren't such a bonehead, that wouldn't have happened.
At least the tentacle monster didn't try to sell him concert tickets!
Now that's what I call a little off the top!
I got a million of 'em, folks.
Fantastic chapter, Chatoyance! Can't wait for the next one.
Oh dang, let's hope they can get Asher some medical attention (or at least a cool hat) after they defeat or escape that scalping monster, whatever it is.
I had a feeling Asher would be taken out of commission in some fashion, since he's by far the most intriguing character and so should be in the readers' future as long as possible, but let's hope it's not permanent and that he has some way of telling us what his deal is, even if it's posthumously, through Celestia.
The creature puns were great - I can easily see all of these being in the show itself.
Speaking of wordplay, though, what language are they all speaking? It's been established in previous stories that Equestria has a different language from Earth, which presumably everyone is speaking (since Plantain, at least, is probably monolingual) but it seems kind of odd that the ethnocentric Bettencourts would be speaking a foreign language at home. But maybe not, since they have those diamond dog servants.
Also, the names - I like the effort you put into coming up with names, and felt lucky enough to get Siofra right, if only because of Siobhan in The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime, but I'm pronouncing "Bettencourt" like "bettin' core," and the bunny's name like "crehm byoo-NAY," which I hope isn't totally off.
I dunno about you guys, but I like those little mental warning klaxons about not suddenly throwing strangers or yourself in front of the subway just because you can, or not spontaneously stuffing your cousin's new baby into a wood chipper, or not just picking up and eating dog shit off the ground - There are already physical things I can't visualize, like ultraviolet colors or higher dimensions, and I don't want my compass of moral things shriveling up to join them. Our imaginations are impoverished enough as it is... Outer space might be currently inaccessible, but I'll be damned if state-space will be, too.
Maybe it does make people technically untrustworthy, in that they could do something horrible to you, but that's equally true of inanimate objects that might explode or break with no warning or people (well, ponies) who turn out to be innocent but incompetent. I never understood this human obsession with certainty... Sure, you or anyone else could die at any time for no reason whatsoever, but you probably won't.
2858792
Better Angels is an excellent book that literally everyone should read. Everyone. Even - No, especially the illiterate. It's a brick, so if nothing else it'll keep people outta trouble for a while, then hopefully afterwards as well, at least if they understood the thing.
2852479
Haha, seriously - I'll share with you a Facebook status I posted a few months ago:
*comes up with stupid joke*
*googles it to make sure it's original*
*16,000 results*
*gunshot noise*
(Like the new avatar, btw)
2858807
IF you wanted to have some kind of featured box, then I can offer a number of possible ways of doing it that I, personally, would prefer to the thumb up thumb down internet voting method of selection:
Select feature box winners based on number of actual, posted comments. Most talked about stories get featured. Before featuring, mod must check to make sure comments are real and not just there to boost stats. (Advantage: authentic value Disadvantage: good authors who are obscure stay obscure) Possible correction? Make ten percent of the feature box winners those with the lowest comments on the site!
Randomly select feature box stories and change them every day, or even every hour.
(Advantage: no bias whatsoever, everyone gets a turn. Disadvantage: being featured is not an 'honor', rather it is a utility)
Choose mods carefully, and let them each select stories their taste dictates should be featured in order to support stories they think are worthwhile. (Advantage: site has a character, obscure fics gain views. Disadvantage: choice of mods is vital)
Make the feature box a meritocracy. Only those writers who have committed to writing the most, who have contributed the most, are featured. The box cycles around that pool, with a minimum level of access based on word and story count. Anyone deliberately posting garbage to up their stats is - just like right now - banhammered. (Advantage: only committed, serious authors who are dedicated to the community get featured. Want to be in the feature box? WRITE! Disadvantage: it would become impossible to destroy talented authors who small groups had a hate-on for. Bullies and trolls would be up shit creek. Wait - that isn't a disadvantage at all. NO DISADVANTAGES.)
2859413
Yes, I invented the Snow Bunnies, Dog Woods and the Bush Babies for this chapter. I just took the idea from the show of 'Timber Wolves' - which my old D&D playing heart just adored - and ran with it.
MLP:FIM has time and again showed a strong connection with D&D, which Hasbro also owns. We've seen manticores and griffons and dragons aplenty, and several episodes have focused on very D&D like adventures. Pony has some incredible original monsters to fight, like Timber Wolves. I just run with all of that.
As we shall see...
2858638 Heh. I wonder why I've never seen that crossover?
Bink is the original CMC!
First off, those final two paragraphs, knowing it was coming, but expecting it to be the mid-point of the chapter...
[youtube=-AZs6yhiRms]
Also, now I'm going to go through the comments a bit, so if I end up double posting to reply to a few things, apologies, it's just easier to reply to the comments via the story page, rather than the chapter page.
2859510
I intend to write about that one day in great detail, and I hope I will. The answer is... complex. But in short, Celestia and Luna are ultimately in charge of such matters, for reasons, but they have dominion only over Ponies, dogs, and griffons. Dragons... have their own deal. Dragons always have their own deal. They have always been a headache for Celestia. Griffons used to have their own deal, but the ones in Equestria are refugees, and they have to rely on the pony sisters. Same with the diamond dogs in Equestria. Refugees from a dying world. The griffons got... lost from their world.
The dragons... even Celestia - and they - are unsure exactly how they got involved. That, or they are not saying.
Celestia has too many refugees. She collects them. But she has a reason.
If I ever write 'The Forbidden Well', I will answer all of this.
2859629
Asher shouldn't have bought those tickets to see Everfree in concert - he got scalped!
Asher isn't nearly as headstrong as we thought, is he?
"A little off the top, barber... HEY, WAIT!"
Asher has Fail Pattern Baldness. He failed his save!
I actually saw a man with no scalp. He was a homeless man who had been literally scalped. He had the exposed, living bone covered with a large plastic baggie to keep it moist. He was in shock and pain, just walking along the street, his face a mask of horror at the world. I saw this driving by one day during the time we lived in Los Angeles, years ago.
Everything I have ever seen, everyone I have ever met, eventually finds its way into my stories.
2859631
Yay! Thank you Cabal. The next chapter promised to be an action-oriented one. I think we've got a decent understanding of our adventuring party, now we need to see them in action. I hope some survive...
Ooooh, we're getting deep into the characterization and the worldbuilding at the same time. This is great.
If that's what Snow Bunnies do, I shudder to think of running into a snowman, or a snow angel...
Hmm. Now that I think about it, does the Everfree have seasons of its own, with changing weather patterns at different times of year? If so, does it have all four seasons like a temperate zone, or just wet and dry with relatively constant temperatures, like a savannah or rain forest? And if it doesn't have its own winter... where do snow bunnies live?
So we have in our party Petra (the polite one), Isla (the quiet one), Asher (the blunt one), Serafina (the pessimistic one?), Oliver (the awkward one), and Milo (the curious one). Six children. The only human children in Equestria there ever have been- or, I suppose, ever will be, given the problem of reproduction in the Masada. (And barring any further secret history surprises along the lines of The 800 Year Promise, of course.) And of course they're all becoming much more realized as characters than those single-adjective summaries would suggest. At least two of them have secrets they haven't shared with the group, for instance. I also like that their last names have been all but done away with since leaving home- they have names enough to identify them as individuals, and ignore the rest, despite the emphasis the adults in their lives place on family, history, status, &etc. This is a very effective yet subtle means of further distancing them from the society and mindset of the people that raised them.
... holy crap, how did that thing get past the dogwood trees?
And. Um. Are we sure we have all the pigs and chickens we started the chapter with? They've been awfully quiet...
In any case, now is the time to run. But carefully, and all in the same direction, so we don't get separated...
Oh, who am I kidding? It's six kids, one of them bleeding from the head, in an unfamiliar forest full of wild magic which has just made its first move by nearly taking one of their heads off. What are the odds of them actually sticking together?
2860120
That could turn out to be a problem in cases where a fic would make the box with the majority of comments being criticism from people who didn't like it.
A lot less people would care about it if something like that was implemented.
That's not that bad of an idea, actually. At least, it's certainly better than...
...This one. I have not seen a single case of people being banned for posting "garbage," and there are a good amount of below-average-to-terrible fics that have neared or even passed 100k words by constantly updating with thousand-word-long chapters with little to no description(Living the Dream, My Second Life).
Also, having some kind of "elite featured box group" sounds like the setup for some kind of high-school-clique-like "I'm in the Featured pool so I'm better than you" thing.
2858651 I've got to agree with that thought, with one extra caveat. The children's admittance of their issues with bad thoughts made me think, "Wow, they are being surprisingly open with each other." I would have been/was exceedingly reticent, back at age 13/14 about any of my thoughts. Though I suppose once Petra was willing to go out and emphatically state that she had that thought, and let's face it, every teenager has had that thought at some point, the rest of the children sort of followed.
Which is ironic really, because she doesn't want to be a Bettencourt, CEO of humanity, yet through candor, friendliness, determination, and willingness to accept wise consul, she's become the leader she never wanted to be.
2859510 Good question.
2860190 Dragons? Separate deal? I smell an adult-Spike story. That would certainly pique my interests.
I simply adore all the new creatures you've come up with, especially that last one. It reminds me a little of the first spider encounter in Limbo, or for some reason of the final boss of the dungeon in Dad's Dungeon (Adventure Time).
2860190
Please, please do. This sounds incredibly interesting.
My reaction to the image: "WOW this is getting dark in a hurry."
My immediate reaction to the event: "Oh good, not immediately fatal like O-Ren Ishii's was."
My next reaction: "...but if they don't get him medical attention pronto, he's going to die anyway."
My considered thoughts on the bus to work in the morning: "Buuut, if Celestia can bring dead humans back by ponifying them, all they really have to do is keep the body in one piece long enough to reach somepony sympathetic to their cause who can contact the Princesses. Assuming at least one survives, and well... tragedy on THAT level just wouldn't be Chatoyance's style."
2860650
Essentially, this - the kids are chatty about something which is usually never spoken about, and I whilst I can tell you for a fact that kids will get rather graphic about their anger, most of them don't have the capacity to really do those things, most do not go that far and into that much detail and don't generally discuss it calmly. The ones that do are usually in therapy.
This is where the fucked-up upbringing may negate any objections, because if anybody is going to need a good deal of therapy, it's the kids in this story, and whilst such things aren't usually discussed, there are certain times and places where 'deep' discussion can occur, and just because they are children doesn't change that.
And also, yes, entirely agree about the whole leader thing. I'm a sucker for the old, old idea of "the land and the king are one", and firmly believe not so much in the divine right of kings, but that there is a nobility of spirit that lets truly good, wise people lead others consciously forwards to a better society all around, and that this goodness from a worthy figurehead acts as a catalyst for everyone else to be better, too. Of course, vice-versa is also true, and we haven't had such a leader in a long, long time.
2860424
Actually, if you took away the thumbs down, then you could simply weigh comments against thumbs. Those without thumbs up would obviously not be "popular" despite a large number of "this sucks" comments. You'd only have number of active/total views, thumbs and vocality of readers to go by, and a "contraversial" story would have thumbs up from supporters and a large number of readers both positive and negative, and... well, isn't impact a good metric? It'd certainly discourage sniping, and would mean the feature box acts more like the Times "Man of the year" award...
2861731
This is... genius. Just plain genius.
2861731 2861770 True, impact is certainly a potential measure. I mean, Voltaire, Dante, and Rand are some of my favorite authors, and they certainly left a mark in the minds of the people around them. Voltaire and Dante got banished within their lifetimes, and for Voltaire it was because of his writings.
2861692 True, killing sapient pigs for a hearty
humanScottish breakfast would likely give a cavalier attitude towards any killing. And good to know my thoughts on Petra aren't completely random2861692>>2860650
I am aware that I am unusual, and that I have lived a very unusual life, but the conversation of those children is based on real conversations I had with other children at that age, and even a little younger, as I moved around every three to six months. One thing that I, and the few friends I had as I grew up, did a great deal of was pondering issues exactly like the ones Petra and her compatriots are doing in this story.
The nature of evil, the evil within people - not to mention life, death and the meaning of every little thing - all the existential dilemmas were as common for my childhood discussion as talking about UFO's, weird stuff, and the latest episode of Star Trek or Land Of The Lost. While I cannot claim to remember the exact words of such discussions, I do remember their subject matter vividly.
I had to have it explained to me that Charles Schultz was being ironic when he had Linus and Charlie Brown discuss existential issues on that wall. That was how I actually interacted with the singular friend I somehow managed to find in each new town.
Then again, my father was a highly driven, social climbing, hyperviolent, superintelligent psychopath, and my mother was an elderberry... no, my mother was a wealthy, emotionally destroyed, elderly former prostitute who had been trapped into a loveless marriage. It is possible that this background may have... put some slight strain on me, which is reflected in my characters.
Or... maybe kids really do talk like that more than most adults remember. Or want to remember.
2860689
They are up against a known monster. In Teacup: Down On The Farm, I used a Beholder, arguably the poster monster for Dungeons and Dragons. I have considered it a personal tradition that should I ever enter the Everfree within a tale, I would have an encounter with a different, traditional monster out of the original AD&D Monster Manual. This is my second chance, my third would come should I write The Forbidden Well some day.
I leave it to my clever readers to try to figure out what the monster is before the next chapter is published.
Would you like a hint? OK, it's nerdly obscure, but if you need a hint the monster is stolen, bodily, from a very famous chapter from A. E. van Vogt's utterly classic science fiction novel 'Voyage of the Space Beagle'
Displacer Beast or Coeurl would be my guess
I'd also hate for Asher to temporarily wind up a Kappa......
2861731
That still presents a few problems. "Controversy" can be good sometimes, but not when the controversy in question revolves around an arrogant author who picks fights with anyone with a differing opinion. That's not really something that you'd want on the front page.
And, in a case like this, insincere comments and upvotes could be far more damaging than a simple downvote. You could easily get a bunch of people together to pose as a group to "help" stories, while really being a group to search for bad stories and bomb them with fake praise to try to fill the front page with the most mediocre shit they can find. I say mediocre because that'd be much, much more believable than a group that only tries to get the worst shit up there.
You could try implementing a "one account per IP" thing to stop something like that, but that can be circumvented with proxies and alts, so... yeah. It's probably a good thing to keep votes equal at the moment.
2863469
If there are no downvotes, only upvotes, views (active and total) and comments, then picking a fight will only lead to more of an impact for the author. I fail to see how an author can pick fights with people who simply don't need to bother responding and who aren't interested in the first place.
Conversely, it's incredibly easy for a reader to pick a fight with an author. At the moment, that's insanely easy, and can very easily lead to removing any chance for impact.
I think the negative currently outweighs the positive (which I find ironic since I'm suggesting removing the negative option).
And should there be an arrogant author, who attracts a legitimate following, and stirs up thought and comments? Well, to be honest, I think that's a pretty good metric. I don't have to approve of everything other people like, after all
I'm not really sure how. Enough mediocre bullshit makes it to the front page as it is, and a good deal of utter trash remains popular ad nauseum. In the case of gaming the system, we have that problem now - only the capability to bomb an author off the front page (something I find more damaging to the author than putting them on there) is more or less an unpunishable crime.
The capability to put mediocre bullshit on the front page exists now, and sock puppets are a problem already. It's not going to get worse.
The only difference is that right now, SJW's and other self-appointed literary police can effectively silence people they don't like. I'm actually rather against that as being "a good thing".
2863634
I'd like to point out exactly how how it could be more damaging, but that'd be quite hard without actually having those changes implemented.
What exactly would measure an author's "impact" when it comes to comments, though? How would they sort between good ones, bad ones, deleted ones, off-topic ones, and the like?
2862516
I'd vote for displacer beast. However, I have yet to read anything by A E van Vogt. It's more that I was referring to the feeling that I got as a reader to its sudden and shocking entrance.
You know how it is when the spider first stabs you? That is what I'm referring to.
Don't matter though. I'm just excited to see what happens next. You've got me on the tips of my hooves, metaphorically.
2863718
You cannot demonstrate, but you should be able to suggest. I haven't heard a good argument though - it wouldn't be perfect, but I think it would be better than now. I've said why.
You don't need to sort, I thought that was obvious. Any author which generates comments in their story - on topic or not - is a fertile ground worthy of note purely by generation of comments. Putting in rate limiters is child's play (and indeed, this site has such already), so gaming such a system would require automation (relatively simple to detect) or dedication, in which case... well, we have that now, only to purely detrimental effect since a thumbs down seeks only to erase from public view.
Why is there a need for you or I to oversee impact (or indeed, popularity)? These are things which should happen of their own accord, I don't see why people need to concern themselves over emergent properties other than to provide a solid, fair and useful base for them to spring from.
2864135
Okay, after a bit of thought, here's my proposed example of how this could go wrong.. Let's say the changes are implemented, and a bunch of users aren't happy about them. One of them starts to get the idea of "Hey, I wonder if I could get a bunch of people together and game the system a bit."
So, he puts a plan into action. He gets a bunch of people unhappy with the changes together, and starts a group called "Underappreciated Stories" or something. (Sorry if that's an actual group somewhere, I'm just using it as an example.) Once a week, he, under an alt, would highlight some randomly-picked, terrible HiE with a pony creator cover image or something along those lines and have everyone else in the group "praise-bomb" it as much as they can. Leaving a comment for every single chapter, upvoting it, talking with each other as if it were a forum, anything to get those numbers up until they've successfully gotten things with names like "my adventur in equesta" and "twilight kils apple jack" on the front page for everyone to see.
Would that still be able to work when paired with the scenario I presented above, though? I'm having trouble seeing how it would.
2864298
You're talking about a reincarnation of the TrainWreck Explorers, a bunch of jokers who went around essentially mass-shitting on any stories they deemed terrible.
Strangely enough, eventually they were banned.
Point being is, it's relatively simple to say "this sort of behaviour is against the ToS" (as it already is) and then take action on those individuals (or indeed, the entire group)... and the worst thing I see happening is the frontpage box continues to be full of mediocre, pandering, sex-riddled gore-fests like it is now. The only real difference is that the "wrong" authors may get more exposure as certain users protest the rules, rather than the "wrong" authors getting disappeared as users protest said authors' existence. *Shrug*, I think it'd be better than now.
Yes, I think it would. It would encourage restraint from posting how much you dislike a story, because the best outcome if you just sit in a comment stream sniping is that you bump up the heat for that story and, ultimately, that author. Again, if you merely dislike the author and/or his/her words, and can articulate why, then I think that is still worthy of note. Sure, terrible stories will hit the front page, but then if it's legitimately terrible and it gains infamy, it's going to be something special either way if people continue talking about it - kind of a literary "the room" perhaps? I don't see that as a bad thing...