Okay, so we're coming up on another new episode tomorrow, unless your local tv station gets silly and decides to skip it, so time for the discussion thread.

This weeks episode is "The Last Crusade", by Nicole Dubuc, who you may know from School Daze/Raze, Shadow Play, Marks for Effort, A Matter of Principals, Uprooted, Twilight's Seven, and, of course, as half the writing team doing the Ponyville Mystery books.

And this is obviously a CMC episode.

So... about this one.

I haven't read the synopsis, but I do know some spoilers on it. This episode is gonna be breaking plenty of established headcanons. And it is possible some places might not air it, for a very silly reason. I'm looking forward to it, though. We didn't really need scootaorphan as canon, did we? Okay, I do kinda like those stories.

With a name like "The Last Crusade", I'm thinking the CMC are missing going on crusades now that they have their marks, and decide to go out on one last crazy crusade for old times sakes. That'd be fun to see.

So, if you already watched it someplace, or want to speculate about it, you can talk about it now in this thread, and you can talk about it after you watch it here too.

I think I'll like the new canon, but I haven't watched the episode yet...

--Sweetie Belle

my opinion is back and forth that's why we have the alt universe tag pony come on now quit fussing over one little episode i said quit fussing oh my celestia i'm gonna cry

I've seen the episode so if you don't want spoilers stop reading now.

Honestly, I get why they did what they did. This final season seems to be filled with them throwing in all the things they maybe should have gotten too way earlier for the sake of the fans. I do appreciate it though and I've been loving the season so far, especially an upcoming episode which I won't go into, but is now one of my favorites of the entire show. That being said, I do find what they did with Scootaloo to be a bit of a cop out. I know the type of show it is and I know they want to have happy endings, but tossing in her parents at the ass-end of the show came off as weak in my opinion. I think the concept of her being an orphan is so much more impactful and gives her a stronger character identity that can be played with by the writers. Another reason I think it's stronger is because orphans actually exist; and there may be fans or kids out there who don't have parents themselves who connected with the character on that level even though it was never expressly stated in canon, but that is 100% out the window now and honestly I think it detracted more than it added. Imagine how much more sentiment would have been had if she had been adopted by Dash's parents, or even by Granny Smith or something. A story like that adds to established characters, instead we have new parents who I doubt we'll ever see again anyway. I heard, not confirmed but I'm assuming as it seems to be the case, that the ones taking her in are an official same-sex couple. If that is the case then good on them, and good on them for doing it early in the season and not in the final episode like some shows. But again, I do hope we see them again and this isn't just a 'hey we did it yay us' moment that takes place in one episode and is never spoken of or referenced again. But that's a topic for a whole other post.

6890161
Her aunts were already established characters in the Ponyville Mystery books and comics. They felt like a couple in their first appearance, including one kissing the other on the forehead. Mike Vogel has also confirmed on twitter that they are a couple.

--Sweetie Belle

6890163
That's awesome. I don't consume any media outside of the TV show so I wasn't sure.

6890131
I've already seen the pre-release, so I can say it does indeed break some headcanons. This is def one I'd watch again!

6890131

as half the writing team doing the Ponyville Mystery books.

Aaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!

This is gonna be buckin' amazing!

Those books were great.

6890131

We didn't really need scootaorphan as canon, did we?

We do. We all do. Yes, we do. More than you might think.

6890161
I, too, kinda fell into the group where Scootaloo was an orphan and I thought it made her character a bit more complex and one to empathize with; not having ANY parents as a child. My heartstrings were tugging for her to get adopted by Bo Hothoof and Windy Whistles to become Rainbow Dash's new little sister; Scoots admires Dashie so much and is such a huge fan pf hers. I loved seeing her parents and seeing her two 'aunts'; I only wished thy'd put them in sooner in the series.

Wow! What an episode. We finally got to see Scootaloo's parents!!!! And her aforementioned aunts! We even had (non-speaking) cameos by Babs and Gabby.

The only downside is that this felt like a "let's wrap up loose ends" episode. So sad it's the last season.

Dreadnought

Well, that’s a mighty coincidence. For my Hearth’s Warming Eve story, I thought it’d be funnier if Scootaloo did have parents, but they couldn’t make it because they were stuck on a runaway train that’d explode if it ever went below a set speed. Who knew they’d be introduced in such an action-packed manner?

6890313 Well, now we can see why she's so drawn to the Wonderbolts and likes riding around on her scooter. She's a born adventurer, just like her parents.

6890131
I haven’t seen the episode because I can’t find it anywhere I know that it isn’t on YouTube.

Hey, I just remembered something that nearly broke me out of immersion.

The CMC said that it’s rare for ponies to share the same cutie mark. Is that really so? I know the Doctor (Time Turner) and Minuette both have the same hourglass cutie mark. Aren’t there other examples?

6890318

There could a few more examples of ponies having the same Cutie Mark, but even so, if there only a few examples, that wouldn't mean it's not rare. I don't know how many ponies are in Equestria but if there are say, around 5 or so groups of 2 or more ponies that have the "same" Cutie Mark with (including the CMC as one of the groups) that could still make it a rare thing for ponies to have the same Cutie Mark.

This season's might has well be the "headcanon killer" season: first it killed the headcanon that Twilight's like a mother figure for Spike, and now it killed the headcanon of Scootaoo being an orphan. Bet that AU tag's gonna be a workout now.

What headcanon is it gonna kill next?

6890323 Twilight could still be a mother figure to Spike. Being a mother figure isn't the same as being an actual mother. Older siblings can occupy a parental role for their younger siblings from time to time, it's not uncommon especially in large families.

6890327
Well, maybe not killed it completely like it did the Scootaoo one, but it did weaken the ammo for it, to the joy of those that didn't like the headcanon of Twilight being a parental figure for Spike and a "just" an older sister figure to him, which I wasn't one of. Now, it's more something you just have to choose to believe.

Personally, I think of Twilight being a big sister/mother hybrid to Spike, kinda like how Applejack is a big sister/mother hybrid to Apple Bloom since they lost their parents with Apple Bloom at a very young age, though it seems somewhat more obvious with Applejack and Apple Bloom than it is with Twilight and Spike.

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6890295

The thing is, "scootorphan" would have made no sense as a "reveal" - she was living somewhere with somepony, and the other CMC knew - it was just the audience who didn't. They could have gone a lot of ways with her family, but her not having one at all has been as unfeasible as living Apple parents for a while. (Yeah, orphans are already covered, in case you forgot.)

Now did that mean they had to be another set of happily married same-tribe opposite-sex parents? No. No it did not. And I am somewhat... peeved that every last one of our original pony cast now has that setup confirmed. Especially since there was nothing they did in this ep that required two of them.

In other notes... the cragadile scene was horribly irresponsible, the CMC appreciation was a mix of cool, corny and implausible, and Holiday and Lofty were alright. (The relationship probably should have been through the pegasus side, tough - now someone's probably going to suggest that Scootaloo's disability is a result of miscegenation in her family tree.)

6890318
Octavia Melody and Fiddlesticks (Fiddle Faddle)

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Episode Spoilers Ahead

So, my anger is very real about this episode. I was never a strong follower of Scootaorphan. Yeah, Scoots is shown to have little to no parental guidance, but that doesn't mean she's an orphan. However, Scoots' line from Parental Glideance about not having any support her whole life leaned very heavy into her coming from an ambivalent -- if not downright neglectful -- household. I went into this episode with hesitation -- a friend of mine warned me that it was... rocky. And the start of the episode was amazing: Scootaloo being raised mostly by her aunts and various Ponyville residents was perfect.

But then... it turns out her parents are just very loving, very busy people...

So where was the lack of support? They obviously wrote letters back and fourth, so how exactly was she without parental motivation? I would've understood if her parents were so wrapped up in their jobs that they hardly paid Scootaloo any mind, but they aren't. They're loving and missed her and now none of it makes any logical sense.

At first, I thought Hasbro was just hesitant to touch on the topic of neglectful parenting, but they didn't seem to care all that much when they did it with Spoiled Rich and Diamond Tiara. Was it because Spoiled was portrayed in a villainous role? Then do that with Scootaloo's parents! Have the episode run like this instead:

Scootaloo is seen with her aunts, just as the episode begins. Everything is the same, right up until Scootaloo is bragging about her parent's jobs. Snips comments on how it's impossible that Scootaloo's parents have a job so intense and she gets mad at him for calling her a liar. She swears that she'll prove it when they get there. The CMC, eager to prove that their friend isn't lying, decide to help her, but quickly see that things aren't all well with the family-child relationship.

Scootloo's parents ignore her, instead focusing on their animals. When she requests their time for show-and-tell, they tell her that they're far too busy to spend time at a school, standing in front of a bunch if foals. When Scootaloo tries to say more, her parents either shoo her off or hurry out of the room to continue their work, ignoring her altogether.

In traditional CMC fashion, the trio begin performing all manner of hare-brained schemes to try and get her parents to see the error of their ways. Eventually, they decide to force her parents to have time for Scootaloo by doing their work for them and taking care of the dangerous creatures themselves while the parents aren't paying attention. However, things obviously go absolutely awry and several dangerous monsters get loose. RD, who happened to be nearby, ends up quelling out the creatures, asking the CMC how they got loose in Ponyville in the first place.

The CMC explain the whole story to Rainbow, who is immediately upset at Scootaparent's treatment of their daughter. She gives Scootaloo a long, meaningful look, then darts off to her house. From here, the perspective takes a shift from the CMC and, for the first time I can think of in a CMC episode, the perspective is from somepony other than one of the three. Rainbow confronts Scootaparents with the captured animals and demands to know why they're treating their child with so little care. She may even quote back to Parental Glideance at this point, as Scoots said some meaningful things to RD about parenthood in that one -- she may even comment about how she's practically been Scootaloo's adoptive sister for ages now.

Her parents, taken aback by a third party pointing out their flaws and seeing the lengths Scoots went to, to get their attention, realize that they've been horrible parents up to this point. When Scootaloo comes home, the two embrace her and promise to be better for her from then on. Flash forward to school the next day, and Scootaparents are showing off the fruits of their job at show-and-tell, displaying (caged) creatures and telling stories of their exploits. The episode ends with a slow zoom on Scootaloo as she smiles, finally realizing that, from then on, she's going to be treated like a daughter, rather than a burden.

Roll credits.

That would deliver a new message, both to the child (Just because parents are busy, doesn't mean they don't love you) and to the parents who watch with their kids (Don't let work and hobbies take from your children.) It would've fit with the information we'd been given up till now, and would have been far more satisfying.

Scootaloo's eventual blow-up at her parents, where she says, "You're changing up my whole life without asking how I feel!" was solid. It almost gave an impression that her parents really didn't put any stock in anything Scoot's said... But the looks of sadness they showed afterwards didn't share in that. They did know how it felt and they knew it would hurt. They just thought she'd be better off with her parents, who were loving, rather than by herself. It's the act of good, if misguided people. And I loved the cameos of all the CMC's clients (I suppose that word works) at the end of the episode, but it felt kinda phoned in. Maybe it could've been worked into my above synopsis in some way, but I don't think it'd really be needed.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't dislike Scoot's parents. Their designs were sound, their personalities were entertaining, and I love how her dad is basically a cross between Crocodile Dundee and Steve Irwin... But I feel like those amazing parents just don't line up with the impression we've been given up till now. And that leaves a really sour taste in my mouth. They'd kept this train of continuity going since Scoots was first introduced, never showing her parental figures and leaving it vague who took care of her... and to drop the ball so spectacularly at the end is just... upsetting.

What do you all think?

6893973
I concur that it doesn't really fit. I have my own issues with the ep, but this is definitly one of them. But really, I'm not sure whether even your rvised version would fit with the allusions in Glideance, whic would also exclude supportive subtitute parents like her aunts.

6894084
The thing that sells her aunts for me is that they aren't there that often. From the sounds of it, they swing in for one day every few weeks, leaving Scoots unsupervised most of her life. Also, by keeping Scootaloo interested in her parents and their work despite her abuse could easily give the writers room to have her, in an ironic twist, be a little neglectful of her aunts and fail to see the kindness they show her.

6895014
Possibly.

I'm also, ironically, after all my complaining about all the parents being alike, concerned of the implications of her father being an earthpony given her condition.

6895273

I didn't even think about that, about why Scootaloo isn't able to fly.

Now that alone wouldn't be enough because The Cakes being Earth Ponies didn't affect their Pegasus and Unicorn foals like that, but they did say that they had Unicorn and Pegasus blood in them.

But without the same being said for Scootaloo's parents, it can be a valid headcanon for why Scootaloo can't fly. Just like theories that "makes sense" that can't be proven but can't be disproven either.

6895441
Yeah - and I don't like that, because it shows miscegenation as being indisputably degrading - not quite the right message. (Although the existence of mules was probably proof enough...)

6895273
Well, I don't know if we can hold it to that standard. I mean, like 6895441 said, Mr. and Mrs. Cake are both Earth Ponies, and Pound and Pumpkin are shown to be amazing in both flying and magic. Possible infidelity notwithstanding, I don't think an Earth Pony father is the cause of her disability. I think she was destined to be that way, if I'm being honest. Her struggle makes her more empathetic to ponies who struggle to achieve their dreams, making her a better Crusader for those who want to reach something that seems impossible. She said as much in The Fault in Our Cutie Marks when talking about Gabby wanting to be the first griffon with a Cutie Mark.

Scootaloo was, for whatever reason, destined to struggle to overcome great challenges; physical, mental, and emotional. She hasn't failed to meet these challenges head-on, up till now, and I don't think she'll fail to accomplish every possible dream she imagines. She's determined like that.

6895455
True. I just wish that it had maybe been a different couple who demonstrated diversity - I recall Rarity's father was quite the subject of discussion until we saw him hatless.

6895458
This is a fair point. I think with the main cast, they wanted to have both parents share the child's race, since it keeps up the sense of balance between the Mane 6; two ponies from each race, coming together. I might be wrong -- I very well could be looking too deeply into that -- but I feel like I'm not.

6895469
Well I found it quite samey and boring - same as them all being happily married opposite-sex couples, but at least you could sort of blame that on (very old-fahioned) "family values".

6893973
I wasn't thinking that deep on the subject of Scoot's parents; mainly because I didn't know all her background and just assumed she was an orphan by the lack of parents around. The subject of her family just seemed kind of 'fill in the blank' and/or really hadn't been thought out during the many seasons of episodes so we all kind of just tried to come up with some sort of plausible explanation for the parents being absent. Don't get me wrong, I'm really happy to know she has a mom and dad and they lover her very much. I never realized just how much this topic was of under such intense scrutiny by fandom in want of solving the mystery of Scoot's family. Just my 1-cent worth of opinion on it.

6895504
It's been one of the big discussions among the fandom, along with the fate of Applejack's parents and things of that vein. Honestly, it's amazing how often parents are the topic of discussion around here. Most of the other big topics that I've been a part of have been resolved and, more often than not, they've been resolved in a satisfying way. But I'm not a fan of how this one was resolved. It threw a wrench into the presented canon of Scoots being neglected, and I would be lying if I said it didn't bother me.

6895514
Would you be OK with it if this ep had aired in place of Glideance? I don't recall anything up to that pint that contradicted it.

6895515
It was more the general air of neglect that seemed to be around Scootaloo's character throughout the show. Consider how, in The Crusaders of the Lost Mark, each of the CMC were met by their respective sister figures; Scootaloo was the only one without family present. Beyond that, in Flight to the Finish, Scoots was throwing away all her prized belongings in her room, but no-one but Rainbow and the CMC came to cheer her up. There are other little moments like that, but Scootaloo always seemed to rely on Rainbow and the CMC in place of parents and siblings, which gave her an air of someone who either has no family or is treated very poorly by her family. I've always leaned towards the latter, since I feel that Scoots being neglected would be a stronger message for the show to deliver, rather than her being orphaned.

6895524
I thought of that, but I think Sweetie's parents being absent too was a way of the show hedging their bets. Also, it would fit well enough with this ep (assuming it wasn't an aunt-day.) Same with them being home alone in FttF (although her parents could simply have been be working).

6895540
Well, Sweetie and Rarity's parents are a source of their own... something. I mean, consider that, in Sweetie's first introduction, Rarity's parents leave Sweetie with Rarity for a week. But ever since then, it's like Sweetie lives in the boutique with Rarity. I don't know, I feel like the writers just didn't know what to do with Rarity's parents, so they just made them absent.

But they were seen. In Scootaloo's case, the utter absence of any familial figures is telling in the CMC; hell, in the main cast in it's entirety by the end of Season 8, with Applejack's parents practically confirmed to be dead. We've seen the parents of all the Mane 6, both the other CMC by extension -- even Starlight's father. The only other exception is Spike, but it's basically confirmed that we'll never know who his real parents were, and he was basically adopted into Twilight's family. Assuming you consider them his familial figures, that leaves Scootaloo as a very rare case, where not even a distant relative was mentioned to exist through it's entire 8 season run.

6895544
Well, she isn't actually show living there very often. And yes, Scootaloo's lack of visible family was a standout case - the last remnant of the "pegasus curse" - and I'm not sure if leaving it unanswered would have been better.

6895547
Nah, it wouldn't have. I just feel like they could've handled it better than they did. I get the sinking feeling they either didn't want to tackle the topic of parental neglect head-on, or they thought up this other lesson and went "hey, lets do that instead!"

6895570
Sometimes it's best to leave things to the imagination. Then again, sometimes the answer is better.

6893973
Yeah, I agree. What Scootaloo said in Parental Glidance strongly indicated that if she had parents, they were very neglectful. So much so that she knew she'd been neglected. That's pretty bad. Now it is possible for them to be caring parents when they are around, and I've known parents like that, but honestly that doesn't excuse them for how much they just aren't around.

6895704
The issue I had with it is that they only tackled the issue of neglectful parents one time, with Spoiled Rich. This was used as the plot device for Diamond Tiara's bullying, which was a good enough decision; it happens more than people would like to admit. But it seemed to deliver the message that "bad parents = bullies" and that's just not true. Bad parents can also lead to an emotionally damaged child, like Scoots... And I really wanted to see a message that let kids know that, even if a parent isn't the best at being a parent, it doesn't mean they don't love you.

My dad was never there. He divorced my mother when I was two and just... ran. I saw him every other weekend for about a day, but he was never really a solid parental figure for me. Years and years later, when I was old enough to understand the pain of not having a father in my life, I asked him about it: "Dad, I love you, but... you never were a really good father to me. Why?" This grown man -- a war veteran and a mountaineer, a badass who hunted deer with tomahawks -- got really quiet and just... started crying. Now, I had no goddamn idea what to do, so I just sat in silence until he worked it out. Then he told me, he ran away from fatherhood because it terrified him. He'd thought he was ready to be a dad, but when he held me in his arms, he became painfully aware that he was an irresponsible and unfit parent. So he ran away, letting my mom raise me alone and basically hid.

I love my father. After we spoke about that, he swore to be a better parent to me and he did. I started getting more calls from him, chatting with him regularly. By this point, he lived in another state, so I didn't get to see him as much, but we had more contact than we ever had before. Was my dad neglectful? Yeah, he was. I love him, but he wasn't a very good father for most of my life. But his neglect was spawned from a bad decision and maybe a bit of selfishness, not a foul personality, a busy schedule, or ambivalence. I wanted to see a lesson that tackled parents like him. Ones that are good parents, but just... make mistakes.

6895909
Just chimig in to say I also grew up in a single-parent household, and also kind of wanted to see Scootaloo in that kind of situation.

In my headcanon concept (not really show-suitable) they had had her and raised her partially because everypony expected them not to even try, which made for a committed but not that good parent. Then once she could mostly look after herself, they went back to, effectively, the single life.

6895938
I confess, I was really banking on a scene where RD yells at Scoots' parents for neglecting her. It would've been a wonderful conclusion to the arc between the two, and would've just been plain satisfying...