I'm not usually one to judge. Okay, I am, but I keep my mouth shut about it. But something that really gets on my nerves is when someone says something like this:

Yeah, I suck at [thing]. I just don't have the talent.

To that person I say get your head out of your nether regions and take a long hard look at yourself.

I'm going to be talking about writing, because this is a writer's group, but really this applies to anything.

So. Have you actually tried writing?

If you think that your "natural skill" or whatever at writing just sucks and you can't do it, then you can only answer this question in two ways.

Yes, of course! I tried, like, an entire year but couldn't think of anything and when I did my writing was terrible.

Or...

Yes, of course! I've been trying for, like, thirty years and whenever I write it's terrible!

The reason is not that you naturally suck at writing. You're looking at someone who naturally sucks at writing right now. Me.

Warning: anecdote ahead.

Now, back in school when I was littler, everyone else in any classes involving writing would pound out thousand word essays at the last minute, no sweat. I tried doing that too. And you know what saved me from mediocrity?

I couldn't bucking do it.

I was so terrible at writing that if I started at the last day and then furiously typed up an essay, I would automatically fail. Even if I started a few days ahead, if I didn't rewrite it at least twice I would fail.

You're looking at someone who can legitimately claim to be naturally terrible at writing. It's a rare thing, but sometimes a person is born that way.

And if you passed your writing classes at school, then you are not terrible at writing. No. Instead, you're just a lazy person.

"But I've been writing for thirty years and everything I write is a pile of ponyfeathers!" you may be saying.

To which I reply, no, you're just lazy.

You know what the natural state of a normal human being is at any activity?

Terrible. Everyone sucks. If you want to test this out, try playing a game in any genre you are unfamiliar with. You will suck. But after a while, you will get better. This process happens with stuff like games without you even realizing.

With writing, this process must be worked for. It doesn't happen automatically. What's really going on is that you've written a piece of garbage without knowing any of the rules of writing and then just given up. You are lying to yourself if you say you've been trying for thirty years and you just can't get it. And what's worse is that you're building a massive ego based on self-depreciation.

What's going on is that you're like, "Oh, I know I'm bad at stuff, but I'm enlightened. Unlike those other fools who pretend to know stuff they don't, I'm going to own up to my failures like a bucking saint."

You're building your ego on being able to recognize your flaws, and then not recognizing your actual flaws.

You know how to get good at writing? Sit down for two hours every day and bucking write. That is literally it. And if you haven't written at least five hundred words during that time, sit there for another two hours. Without exception, everyone I've ever met who says they're terrible at writing and have been trying for years doesn't do this.

Step two, after you've been doing step one for at least two months, is to cut that time in half. Write one hour, and if you don't have five hundred words, write another hour. And with the second hour, you research how to write. That's right. Read Stephen King's On Writing, or How Not To Write A Novel.

Now the next day, after reading how to write, during that second hour you write down what you learned instead. If you can't write more than five hundred words, read it again until you can, or read more.

Alternate every day.

You will 'git gud.'

But I don't have money to buy—

Shut up. That's right, shut the buck up. Now you're just reaching for excuses. If you're really that broke, pirate it. If you're super moral, write down what you pirated so you can buy it when you have the means. If you're super super moral, find free articles.

Everyone sucks at everything. My natural talent at writing is probably lower than anyone reading this right now.

But I learned the rules.

I made up a strict regimen and I got good. Or at least okay.

And now that I've opened your eyes, if you still insist on feeding your ego by telling everyone (even yourself) how sucky you are at writing, you can just leave because I've had enough of that stupid, wrong mindset.

6075797
This reminds me of the opening statement Nick Caraway made in The Great Gatsby, my favorite... pardon for the inappropriate expression... power dream novel.

Interesting.

6075797

As someone who can only seem to finish a short story, I needed to read this. But why? I've read similar articles millions o f times.

Because sometimes you need to be reminded.

O f course, the reason I haven't uploaded anything onto this site f or the past almost two years is due to the interventions o f my closest associates "But There's No Money In It" and "You Have More Constructive and Profitable Ways to Spend Your Time."

And that's true too. Most people can't muster the schedule or ability to write because there's nothing to galvanize them to do it. There's no carrot being dangled in front of their noses. What does this article promise them? That they'll improve? But that's hard; why do it when it's easier to play your favorite new game for four hours after you get home from work? The last thing anybody wants to do when they get home from a tough day at work is to do more work.

And I'm not saying this because I'm some lazy millenial making excuses. In the two years I abandoned this site, I put a lot o f effort into becoming a proffessional entertainer. I learned how to manage my own business, how to do magic in convincing and mind-blowing ways, how to juggle, how to make routines, re f ined my comedic timing, etc. I was defeated several times, I missed important dates, I was broke half the time, I endured some truly embarrassing bull. But I endured because I knew where my talents lie and I know this has plenty o f money in it. This was a process that took years for me to learn and do, and now I'm finally making a pretty penny o f f my talents. I haven't had to have a "lean month" for a while.

But with writing, especially writing fan fiction, there's little to no money in it at all. Most serious authors only treat fan fiction as practice to refine their skills (which by the way, all fanfic authors should; don't ever call it your career if you can't make any money off it). And even i f they write really good books, publishers won't touch it unless it's bland, marketable vanilla- flavored trash. Especially if it's garbage middle-aged women or college kids will gobble up; THAT is where the real gold is found. If you want to make any money off writing, i f you want ANY kind of reward or monetary gain, you have to sacrifice your integrity as a writer to produce the kind o f trash you'd walk right by on the supermarket aisle.

Make no mistake dude, writing is a frustrating business. And writing for the fun of it only holds a person's interest for so long, so I'm not surprised most o f even the best authors on this site have gravitated to doing other things. You've written a good post here and I appreciate reading it greatly. But you must realize, your words have been spoken by other, more tenacious, more talented people, and yet most of the amateur writers on this site still use that excuse.

Why?

Like I said, there's too much effort in exchange for too small a reward. And nothing, no matter how finely worded it is, can change that.

(btw, sorry if my f 's all look weird in this post. The laptop I'm using lost its "f" key a long time ago so I'm copypasting it onto this post.)

6075797
I agree with 90% of what is said here, and the other 10% I don't actually disagree so much as have an alternative.

Fact is, I never studied writing. Nope, didn't do it. I all but slept through my English classes and didn't read anything that wasn't necessary for passing, but I still aced them. No, I didn't ace them because I was naturally good. I aced them because I started reading before I was old enough to take those classes. I read a lot, and I started banging on a typewriter (yes, an actual typewriter) when I was around five. This meant that I already had much more experience by the time I got to those classes, making them redundant.

So I didn't get better at writing by studying writing. I got better via lots of practice, but that alone isn't enough. If you can't find the materials for study or just aren't interested in taking that route, the other option is to go in search of criticism. Join contests, ask established 'good' writers to look at your material, whatever it takes. And when they tell you that your stuff is crap (and they will, at least at first), don't get all huffy and deny their suggestions as unfitting for your 'vision' of the story. Listen to what they have to say, because I guarantee you there is some value in there.

Practice. Study. Get criticized. Combine those to some degree and you'll be on the road to improvement.

6075797

Yeah, this is the sort of thing I've been saying for many years in many venues, and generally getting shouted down for by those too firmly ensconced in their laziness.

Writing, like everything else in life, is a skill. And all skills take study and practice to master. There's apparently a scientific study that determined that it takes only an hour a day for roughly a year for the average person to become competent at any skill. Obviously, some people learn certain skills faster than others, and that's not taking into account the effects of physical and developmental disabilities (eg. I'm never going to become competent at playing the guitar, because of a neurological disorder); but for the vast majority of people it's true.

When someone says "I suck at writing", what they are really saying is "I'm lazy". They're saying "I suck at self-motivation and self-discipline". Everyone sucks at writing when they start out. Even Joyce did. So did Nabokov, Hemmingway, Tolkien, Burroughs, and so on. The difference is, they had a passion for writing, and put in the time and effort to become great at it.

Does that mean everyone has the capability to become James Joyce, or JRR Tolkien, or William Burroughs? Well, no. Not everyone has the time or talent to become a great writer. (And becoming Burroughs is generally not recommended anyway, for other reasons.) But everyone (again, with the exceptions noted earlier) has the ability to be a competent writer. To tell a good story, if not necessarily a great one. All it takes is time and effort and an appreciation for the craft of writing.

6076205

6075797

I see.
Well, it's good to know we have you two around to decide what other people's problems are on their behalf.

6075797

You're building your ego on being able to recognize your flaws, and then not recognizing your actual flaws.

The words we don't want to hear, yet need to.

6076234

*yawn* Do you actually have a point to make, or are you just snarking because you know it's all too true but don't want to accept it.

The entire existence of our modern education system has amply demonstrated this point over and over.

6076286

I've made the point more than enough in the past. It's you who can't contemplate people having problems outside your own.
(I assume you also think everyone below the poverty line is just too lazy to make it, even if they work 50 hours a week scrounging for tips while bank managers do half the work for five times the cash?)

6076322

And clearly you're not reading anything I'm actually writing, since I addressed that very scenario. But have fun with your knee-jerk responses.

6076400
Yeah, and I call BS on that.

6076400

6076423

He may have meant that not everyone actually has a story to tell.
You can learn all the writing techniques in the world, but they're useless for anything except essay writing if you don't have a creative flair.

6076400
6076423
6076433

Everyone has a story to tell, even if it's just the story of their own life, they can still tell the world about who they are, and how they experience the world around them.

How many people actually have a desire to do so is a different matter, but if they want to, they can.

6076587

Reply deleted because it didn't convey what I wanted to say.

The successful writers on here aren't telling the stories of their own lives. They are tellings stories that arose when they watched the show and their brains clicked: "I have an idea!" They then got to work crafting that idea into a story using their creative flair.

This does not happen with me. It's tied into a larger issue I have - the inability to analyze. It happens with music too - people talk about how "the feels" are strong with emotional soundtracks, and yet I'm sitting there feeling literally nothing.

And of course when people talk about the complex choice of language top tier writers use, I'm sitting there looking at it, unable to discern anything but the literal definitions of the words.

So this is my problem. Yes, I can spell words. Yes, I can craft sentences. But can something inspire within me an idea to be expanded into a story? No. That is the facility I lack.

6076658

How many people will care about anything else you have to say about something entirely fictional?

Many of the greatest novels in the English language are autobiographical, or semi-autobiographical. Not all of us have quite the adventurous life that Hemmingway did, or the seriously fucked up life that Burroughs did, or the facility with language that Joyce demonstrated in Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man; but there's still that core of a story there to start with. A lot of them are just simple observations and impressions, with the names and places changed.

They may not necessarily fit into a particular fanfiction world, but fanfiction isn't the only way to get started writing if one has the desire to do so.

6076652

The successful writers on here aren't telling the stories of their own lives. They are tellings stories that arose when they watched the show and their brains clicked: "I have an idea!" They then got to work crafting that idea into a story using their creative flair.

The amount of trite, self-insert fics with half-assed pony paintjobs that get triple-digit upvotes on this site says otherwise.

And again, fanfiction isn't the only venue for writing that exists.

As for the rest of it, unless one has a particular developmental disability or neurological trauma (which you may well have, although such people tend not to appreciate or understand fiction as a rule), we all have that spark of creativity. It's something nearly all humans are born with. Just look at children at play. It's there. And it's not something that just goes away as we age. Unfortunately, for a lot of people, it gets beaten out of us by life, by people telling us that we don't have it, or that it's worthless, a waste of time. As an adult it's harder to re-capture that, but it can be done. That's one of the main reasons we're drawn to fiction in general, and fantasy in particular. If you're drawn to the fantastical aspects of a program like MLP, then chances are that spark is still there, no matter how deeply buried. It's just a matter of learning to touch it again.

6076678

The amount of trite, self-insert fics with half-assed pony paintjobs that get triple-digit upvotes on this site says otherwise.

Without seeing actual statistics I find it hard to believe that it's really that successful, given that self-insert is an incredibly dirty term (and often paired with Mary Sue and Human in Equestria for instant hate). I'm talking about actual stories, like Fallout: Equestria, Past Sins, The Immortal Game. Those stories were clearly written by people with vision.

6075797
So, I've got so many downvotes not because I can't write, but because people are petty and jealous of my supreme talent and brilliance. Got it.

6077557
No, in your case it pretty much has to do with the misanthropy in them. See, writing is one part. You also need to have a good story to say, and the thing is that not all story ideas are winners, and some are not liked at all. It is even worse when a writer tries to use the medium to convince or force his own ideas so blatantly on the reader. If I'm not mistaken a lot of Heinlein stories were misliked by many because they believed that was what he was trying to do, though in his case it was not.

6076660
But talent still does nothing without being nurtured and without practice. Someone without talent can learn to draw much better than someone with a creative soul, as you put it, as long as he practises harder than the other. The "Holy" triad in succeeding in something as far as I think of them personally are: Will, Practice, Talent. Will is the most important, it is to believe you can accomplish something and to put yourself through every pace that requires it. Practice is the long hours of work you need to put into this, which you will adequetely do if you will it enough. Talent is a great boost, but without the other two it is as useful as a sardine in a tank fight.

6077567
Human hypocrisy, then. Got it.

6077569
No, that's not really hypocrisy at all. It would have been hypocrisy is people claimed that they loved misanthropy and yet refuted your stories. What's happening is a normal, you could call it standard, and surely expected reaction. There's no hypocrisy involved here in any way. I would urge you, if you want to have a more favored reception, to write a story that doesn't involve any humans at all if that's what it takes. Just write a story that is about an episode or something between some established characters instead, and steer clear of any attempt to compare. See how that goes.

6077584
You humans love to call out ponies about their hypocrisy, while forgetting that you are the biggest hypocrites this cursed universe has ever produced. Want a proof? See my story "A second chance to live". No bashing of humans, and still a lot of dislikes.
So, humans are the worst hypocrites ever, and also liars. Got it.

You humans

Wow.

you are the biggest hypocrites

Dear lord.

So, humans are the worst hypocrites ever, and also liars. Got it.

You know what? Never mind. I'm not continuing this. Keep on being edgy and superior while not being at all exactly what you accuse of everyone who ever existed. I'm sure your readers would really love to read and support someone who basically bashes their families and loved ones by default because he laughably thinks he is enlightened or above it all. I think you know extremely well why your stories all not liked at all, you just got the wrong target. Hint: It's not everyone else. It's you.

P.S. Grow up.

6077591
So, calling ponies hypocrites is good and calling humans hypocrites is bad? That's also racist.
Besides, I'm also bashing my own family as well. And I have no loved ones, to bash them too.

6077647
If you define 'study' as reading other people's stories and receiving criticism, then sure, I studied.

If you define 'study' as reading books and blogs that are specifically about writing and paying attention in English class, then no, I never did.

6077647

Yeah, actually, you DID study. You just enjoyed it so you didn't notice

Isn't learning by doing, and realizing later that you internalized the rules without noticing, just one of the absolute best feelings in the world?

6077650
Yes. It's why I chose to make a career of it.

6077649 To be fair, constant practise and exposure to the subject is, in my opinion, a pretty vital part of any study strategy.

It worked for my engineering degree, after all. Do, fail, do again, look at other people's work, do again, be told you suck by the lecturers, improve based on criticism, etceterah, etceterah...

Learning for me is just like evolution. Keep murdering the dumb versions of yourself and eventually I kinda just evolve on my own.

6077666
Frankly, it's how you learn anything. Intellectual study is helpful and necessary, but practice is how you really internalize things.

It's why all my professors recommend strongly that you try to teach what you know to the earlier semesters. There is honestly nothing better than trying to explain your own skills to someone else to really make you understand the underpinnings of what you're doing. To explain your work and teach others, you really need a solid understanding of not only what you're doing, but why, as well as the rhetorical capability to put it into terms someone ignorant on the topic could understand.

As they say, if you can't successfully explain it to others, you don't really know what you're doing.

6077657
/Highfive
That's my current job in a nutshell as well! I'm in an educational center where part of my job, among others, is to learn stuff on my own, get accredited, and then teach the basics at the very least to others. It is SWEET! I'm doing things that I never knew where to start from just three months ago!

Something that I rarely see anyone pointing out is how useful it is to have a wide variety of skills and knowledge (or the ability to find out some basics at least) in everything, writing included. Even if it has no conceivable connection at first glance, everything always comes up useful. In writing, this may come up as story and plot ideas at the very least. 6077666 for instance probably has about 10.000 ideas about things that can go wrong and making the plot more interesting through his engineering background alone, nevermind the ways and plotlines to fix them.

I assume many of them would include fire extinguishers.

Bottom point I am trying to make is that the wider the knowledge base and experience the writer has, the better the story he can possibly craft. So, even if someone can't make a story up to his satisfaction (or others) it may be because what he needs is time. I'm saying that because, you know, fanfiction. The younger someone is the worst it statistically is.

6077686

That's my current job in a nutshell as well! I'm in an educational center where part of my job, among others, is to learn stuff on my own, get accredited, and then teach the basics at the very least to others. It is SWEET! I'm doing things that I never knew where to start from just three months ago!

Level UP!
You gain:
+10 in Awesome
+5 in Respect
+5 in I really like this guy

For all that I always used to conflict with them myself, having been a very curious child that was never simply quite satisfied with the answers it got and always a dozen pages ahead in the book, I've got nothing but a healthy appreciation and respect for teachers and the way they do their best to make sure that this generation will get to have a better life than the last. The ones that treated me the harshest and expected the most of me I remember most fondly of all of them, because they had more faith in my ability to succeed than any of the rest.

I am glad that your job search went this well. If you can, make a career of it. While the circumstances may be trying, there is nothing quite so satisfying as seeing your students grow up and be successful with the things you taught them.

6077690
Yep, I very, very lucked out. What I'm mostly excited for is that soon I will be aiding in a class (and hopefully soon taking one of my own) teaching kids robotics and programming in as much creative ways as we can. This will be amazing and I can't wait.

Which you can see also enhances my previous point. They teach kids this because it teaches them engineering, programming, problem solving, and inspires them to be creative.

6077675 Yeah we do that too, and not just in our university courses. The martial arts club I was at required you to be able to teach the stuff in order to progress to the higher belts. It's also why I try and be active on the threads here and yammer about my opinions, because oftentimes trying to explain what I think is happening allows me to refine my thoughts on the matter.

(Forgive me, I have not read the comments, only the OP.)

I'll elaborate on this by saying I don't understand why people seem to dislike their own work. Perhaps you wrote something in the past that you no longer feel is up to your current quality standards, but I sometimes encounter people who are current authors that like to tell me how their work is garbage. Perhaps they're trying to take modesty to a whole new level? I can't say for certain. What I can say is that I like my own work. I don't go around shoving it in people's faces, but if I didn't like it...how could I get through producing it? My comedy has to make me laugh. If it doesn't, how can I expect it to make other people laugh? So forth with any other emotion I attempt to induce with a scene. And yes, I have clicked the 'like' button for every one of the stories I published on this site. Because I read it, I liked it, and I think it's good for your psyche to remind yourself of that. If I were going to click the dislike button...I wouldn't publish it. I suppose I have written a commission or two here and there that don't qualify as something I loved, but even then, I did my best to craft a tale to the patron's tastes, and I can be satisfied with that.

As far as whether or not you're any good? I offer this - how can you really know if you're any good or not? That's for your readers to decide, not you. If you honestly don't want to write that's fine, but if you do want to write...then write. Don't let 'oh, but I'm no good at this' keep you down.

6077646

I actually did write a rage review once. I believe nowadays you need to be "registered" with them or some such nonsense?

6077712

6077690

I would happily have been born as either one of you instead.

But talent still does nothing without being nurtured and without practice. Someone without talent can learn to draw much better than someone with a creative soul, as you put it, as long as he practises harder than the other.

What if the creative soul practices just as much? It's easy to say you can "make up for talent" with hard work, if you rig the circumstances in your favor. The old message Naruto delivered used to make this mistake as well - "a dropout can surpass a genius with hard work."

Yes, if we assume the genius doesn't do hard work too. If they do? They win. Being the underdog means you can always potentially be outclassed; you weren't dealt the winning hand. You are the inferior product from the start.

I don't understand, I literally cannot contemplate, why people consider it worth trucking on when their existence is so utterly obviated like that.

"just give up. i did." -Sans
(taken out of context, but it's too good a quote to pass up)

6078193

I don't understand, I literally cannot contemplate, why people consider it worth trucking on when their existence is so utterly obviated like that.

Probably because every single person that reached the top of their fields did so by hard, hard work and none of them ever accredited it to talent.

Talent is also a... nebulous thing. How does someone have a talent in programming? Does that mean that people a hundred years ago were born with talents they would never be able to materialize because the field didn't exist yet? What if a person with an unimaginable talent in skiing never tries skiing? What if, what if, what if?

I very much suspect that talent simply doesn't exist. It's just an excuse made up. What you might very probable have is people who managed to either get a very quick grip of the rules of the "game" or people who lucked out and their first iteration in their mind of how they should do something happened to be the right or most optimized one. Then they just have a head-start.

Even if there is a talent as most people do think of it, the effect it has on the LONG run is negligent to non-existing. It will help you up in the beginning, but to get beyond you need hard work. The confusing part is that if two people work hard on the same skill for the same amount of time, and one of them ends up better it's not because he had talent. It's because he put in a better quality of hard work. Maybe he practiced that 10 minutes more, maybe he thought about his skill all day long, maybe he had a different mindset that enabled him to focus better.

Long story short, we don't have cutie marks ourselves for a reason.

Also, think you are bad at something, you are. Placebo is a real thing that has reaches beyond just medicine, and you need to be passionate about what you do. If you think you are bad and you can't find any pathos in what you do... either find it or give up and let it behind you and stop ruminating your fate. Find something else you can do. There are literally millions of things to try your hand on. I have personally tried almost everything I could get my hands on, especially creative stuff, from simple drawing to making chainmail. I try to learn anything that looks even remotely interesting.

And I'm still not sure I've found anything that tells me I'm really talented at or I was meant to do. Probably because that doesn't exist. You're not made with a purpose. You make your purpose.

6078263

Things like programming wouldn't have talent associated with them since they're objective fields rather than creative ones. Programming merely requires memorization - you remember the syntax and built-in functions (printf for C, etc.), and then all you have to do is work with the design you're given. There's nothing spontaneous about it, unlike the artistic fields. Being inspired to write a story based on the latest MLP episode is a spontaneous, creative thing.

There are millions of things I could try, and approximately zero of them interest me. What my shitty broken brain wants to do is write, and if I can't do that, I'd rather simply die worthlessly than discover a talent at some piece of shit I don't care about like netball.

6078292

Programming merely requires memorization - you remember the syntax and built-in functions (printf for C, etc.), and then all you have to do is work with the design you're given.

Spoken like someone who has never done any programming work. Trust me, it's far, far more complicated than that. Programming is almost as much an art as a science, it's that complex (and often unpredictable.)

6078328

The concept of it being unpredictable literally makes no sense. Computers aren't random. A written line of code will do exactly what it's told to do; if something goes wrong, you need to look closer and see what's making that happen.

And yes, I have done basic programming study. Certainly nothing complex, and not as a job.

6078359
Well, I have a Bachelor's in computer science and actually worked in the field for a few years, so you can take me by my word there. Have you ever heard of the concepts of "bugs" and "glitches"? Knowing what you did does not necessarily mean you know what the code will do. Programming is exponentially complex. The more working parts of a program you have, the more interactions with all the other parts will result, which means the slightest error can propagate in completely unpredictable ways so far down the line, it's often nearly impossible to trace it back to where it came from. Hell, it even works the other way around. Sometimes you will make something that oughtn't work but somehow does, which really makes code maintenance a bitch.

Look up chaos mathematics, it's a similar concept. It's a hard and fast rule that you will spend 10% of your day programming and 80% reading your own code trying to figure out how to fix all the bugs you inadvertently introduced. The last 10% are mostly drinking coffee.

6078373

Yes, but all of those things do have objective sources. A bug isn't caused by the code producing random results - it's caused by code producing results you weren't expecting because you made a mistake. There's no talent involved here, it's all about how closely you can review the code and find where the mistake was.

There's a difference between "that result was produced randomly" and "that wasn't the result I was expecting."
I'm not even a fan of the terms bug and glitch, because the code is doing what it's told to do. User error is at fault here. If something isn't indexed properly, the computer will index the wrong thing correctly (oxymoron?) and thus produce results you don't want.

This isn't the same as someone being naturally adept at being inspired by fiction and having ideas to write fanfiction for it. There's a whole lot more "subjective" (as much as I despise that term) going on there.

I was never smart enough to go any further with programming (much like all my other attempts at intellectual fields).

6078359
6078373
Don't forget that there's no set way of doing what you want, you will always want to do something different than others cause your objectives are different, and there are a ton of programming languages. Also, Wlam, you forgot waiting for your code to compile.

There's nothing spontaneous about it, unlike the artistic fields.

There is nothing spontaneous in creative works, and anyone who says so either doesn't know what he's talking about or is a liar. You have to WORK to make something, and even the inspiration, which is nothing more than the merest, faintest sketch of the beginning idea, is subconscious work that takes a lot of time or effort.

Almost everything takes some creativity, excluding things like stacking boxes or putting things in order. There is an artistry behind everything. If you don't see it either you don't know the subject enough or don't care for it.

Yes, but all of those things do have objective sources. A bug isn't caused by the code producing random results - it's caused by code producing results you weren't expecting because you made a mistake. There's no talent involved here, it's all about how closely you can review the code and find where the mistake was.

As I said, spoken like someone who has never actually worked with that kind of system. A computer's memory and a program's internal stack are an ever-changing environment. It can and will happen that you get a glitch that only ever happens once, for reasons that you don't know and in a way you can't reproduce. There's literally not one person in the world who actually understands how every physical part of the computer you're currently using works. Computers are that complex. Code writing is often as much aesthetic as functional. Once you have done it for long enough, you learn to distinguish "beautiful" from "ugly" code at a glance, despite the fact that both excerpts may do the exact same thing equally well. It's entirely subjective, but every programmer of experience will tell you it's there.

I don't really expect you to understand the how and why of it. This isn't meant as an insult, just a statement of fact - you just don't have the background for it. My point is, it's true and many skills are like that and people do much more by feel and intuition than you think. You just never knew enough about them to realize it.

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Also, Wlam, you forgot waiting for your code to compile.

Whenever possible I prefer working with scripting languages, precisely for that reason.

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Maybe spontaneous wasn't the right word.
Subjective, maybe?

Point being that you can't objectively say a piece of art is "correctly" made. There are basic rules and principles to follow, but not to the extent of the mathematical fields where a function doesn't work unless you type it correctly.

2 + 2 = 4. That is a correctly written out and reasoned statement.
"He wrote that sentence with exactly the correct choice of words according to The Rules in order to create a predefined emotional reaction in the reader!" is not.

You need an imagination to be an artist. You don't need an imagination to be a programmer, a laboratory tester, a maths teacher, etc. Some people have stronger imaginations than others. (Others don't have an imagination at all.)

You're confusing story writing with essay writing, I think.
Writing an essay is entirely objective and bland, based on facts, and utilizing skills like analyzing the subject matter and language skills (spelling words properly, etc.) and maybe typing speed too.
Writing a story however is not going to work if all you have is a grasp of the technical aspects. You need "soul" as someone put it earlier. You need to have something to say, something you want to say, that you feel needs to be said.

If we both watch a season of MLP and you've been inspired to write some fanfics based on various episodes while I have not been? It's because you have the creative spontaneity to actually get ideas. Not all of us do. I certainly don't.

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Point being that you can't objectively say a piece of art is "correctly" made. There are basic rules and principles to follow, but not to the extent of the mathematical fields where a function doesn't work unless you type it correctly.

Man, you really need to talk to a real mathematician at some point. They're some of the most creative people I know. It takes a special kind of mind to come up with something like the Banach-Tarski paradox and disassemble a mathematically perfect sphere in such a way that you get back two once you put it together again.

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I didn't say they couldn't be creative. Humans have this awkward tendency to be multi-faceted and not defined by one single thing.

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This isn't meant as an insult, just a statement of fact - you just don't have the background for it.

Being stupid might also be a contributing factor.

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Others don't have an imagination at all.

That is as correct as saying someone doesn't have a brain, but still lives. Imagination is like a muscle that everyone has. Like a muscle it can be made stronger or weaker. Which is where practice comes along. I think I have a good imagination, but the reason being that I actually use it all the time, and you will find out that people who do practice it find out it becomes stronger (practice as in imagine new and test new horizons, pretty much like putting more weight on your training equipment. Re-imagining the same old thing does nothing). Hell, get any roleplayer Dungeon Master out there who has been doing this for a while. After enough time has passed they are able to completely give up on preparing content beforehand and doing whole campaigns on the fly with their player being none the wiser, as they have gotten that good on making stuff up.

Honestly, saying that some people were "born" with the "right equipment" is a disservice to all the hard work they've put up. I'm known as the "creative" guy among my circle, but that is because I meddled with everything and anything I could find, pushing myself more and more. If you believe you are no good in this, then that's fine. Saying that you can't be better at this however because you lack the appropriate "gear" is a lie. You shirk from the work and the effort. And if you do that, then that's because you don't want to write enough, and you know what? That's fine! Maybe you've convinced yourself that this is what you wanted to do and now woe is you because you are cursed by the universe and are not able to. That's not true. Throw your preconceptions away, and do a fresh start, either at writing or go ahead and try other things. Get into drawing perhaps or anything else.

But really, the "woe-unto-me" is getting really old, man. Either do something or not. Those are your choices. Nothing more or less. It's the same ones everyone else ever had. And when you decide just live with it.

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Being stupid might also be a contributing factor.

This is exactly what I mean. No, you won't manage to be a writer. You will probably not manage to be much of anything. You've decided to define yourself by your failures, and the greater and more complete they are the "better" you feel, the more people "know" how much you "fail" the better. You keep going on, and on, and on. Fine, ok, you're dead meat walking. Can we stop talking about that now?