Okay, so this thread is for discussion of the new episode tomorrow called "Where the Apple Lies", which was written by Dave Rapp. It isn't for discussion of the season finale, which some of you have watched early from UK broadcasts. This episode wasn't actually shown in the UK, though. I hear it might have something to do with cider, which is kinda silly.

I'm guessing this is an Apple family themed episode, and obviously that it has to do with cider. It could have to do with honesty, too, depending on how you interpret the title. Or maybe it has to do with Applejack making some sort of stand.

Of course, I could be totally wrong. It could be about Goldie Delicious trying to figure out where her teeth went. They are probably being worn by one of her cats, but which one of the hundred or so? Well, probably not...

David Rapp also wrote "Newbie Dash" and "Flutter Brutter". Oh dear. We'll see how this one goes. Just keep the season finale spoilers out of this thread...

--Sweetie Belle

the writers stopped caring

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I'm hoping we get the chance to see the teenage M5. After all, Rarity was born in Ponyville and new Applejack, and this may be the chance we see if Dash, Shy, and Pinks moved to Ponyville as teens or not.

5545826 I heard from some friends that this episode might delve into the topic of what happened to Applejack's parents and we already know what happened to them if how the whole family has reacted from it especially prevalent in... Goddamn it, I forgot the name of the episode where the CMC finally got their cutie marks!

Anyway, if that is the case, then this episode is definitely going to not only possibly break some headcanons but also establish what caused their, wait for it...

DEATH...

Big Mac doesn't like... ideas? That sounds counterproductive.

These past few years were not kind to Mrs. Rich.

Also was this the day Derpy's eyes got derpped? Was it an accident? Oh noooooo!

I like how they had the operating room in the style they were in the 19th century, with an audience and everything.

Ahaha, loved this episode! I really like that they were willing to break our perceptions by having AJ and Big Mac be so different in the past. My only complaint about the episode is that they hammered the "Big Mac talks too much" joke so hard into the ground that it stopped being funny, which is a shame because it's a great gag, and gives us a nice bit of fanon fuel; what did turn Big Mac into the stoic adult pony he is now?

But this episode still leaves me wondering: where are AJ's parents? This episode shows a Sweet Apple Acres with only Granny Smith, Big Mac, and Applejack, heavily implying that Apple Bloom isn't yet born - which means that AJ's parents must be alive - but if they're alive, where are they, and why aren't they running the farm and taking care of AJ and Big Mac? Aaaaaaaaaah

The Timey-wimeyness of this episode...

Stinkin' Rich was still alive when the events of the story took place.

The whole "parents are dead" bit only gets more confusing when you consider that Apple Bloom has to be born before her parents can die. It should be obvious, but sometimes it doesn't seem like the writers remember that fact.

It's assumed that AJ's parents passing was one of the reasons that she left for Manehattan. Applejack has her cutie mark during the events of today's episode. Therefore Apple Bloom must have been born, and who was taking care of her during the whole lying debacle?!?

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who was taking care of her during the whole lying debacle?!?

Baby sitter?

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I think it was implied in the episode that the entire hospital debacle taught him to speak less and he just sort of went from there.

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It was implied, yes, but I took that to be more of a joke than the actual reason. ^^

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Eh, knowing the writers, I thought that was the actual reason.

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It’s actually worse than that. Diamond Tiara has to be about the same age as Apple Bloom. She certainly can’t be much younger than Apple Bloom – bullying doesn’t work very well when you’re much younger. But Diamond Tiara is the daughter of Filthy Rich and Spoiled Rich, nee Milk, who have yet to be married, and as far as anyone can tell, does not yet exist. So Apple Bloom does not yet exist either.

But the parents are already dead, because otherwise there would be no question who gets to run the farm.

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Now I'm finding myself wondering if Spoiled Milk was, in fact, pregnant at the time of this episode. Perhaps that was a factor in their getting married?

--arcum42

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Well, she's not showing - but depending on how long pony pregnancy lasts, which we really don't know, that still might not be enough to reduce the age difference to plausible anyway. And there's a lot of timey-wimey in the episode even without that loop.

A truncated version of my review

(SPOILERS!)

Applebloom is caught lying, and is told a story about her sister Applejack's youth.

Enter flashback mode, where the majority of the episode takes place. Prepubescent Applejack strikes a deal with Filthy Rich, promising he can sell Sweet Apple Acres Cider. This, despite Applejack knowing Granny forbids selling cider outside of the farm.

Granny is understandably upset, ordering the deal to be called off. Scared Filthy will end all ties with the Apples, Applejack lies, telling him the reason the deal's fallen through is that Granny's sick. This leads to more lies as Filthy visits their home, and later the hospital, to check on Granny. Applejack does her darnedest to keep them apart, all while Big Macintosh reluctantly plays along.

The lies become more ludicrous and difficult to maintain. Things eventually lead to Granny about to perform surgery on Big Mac (it makes sense in context). Applejack breaks down and confesses the truth to everyone in the operating theater. She learns the hard way that telling lies is more trouble than it is worth.

Applebloom is grateful for the story, humbled that even the most truthful pony she knows has learned lessons about lying.

This is another tough episode for me to pin down. It is not bad, but problematic. The story is fine, the moral works, it has a lot of gusto. I like how each lie leads to increasingly wacky situations.

At the same time, just because something is wacky does not mean it is funny. A lot of the gags here do not live up to their potential. A bigger complaint is the poor exposition. I know the show has had this problem before, but it really seems prevalent here. Take, for example, a line from Big Mac after Applejack has messed up, sending Filthy to go look for Granny in the hospital. Big Mac says “Telling Filthy Rich that Granny Smith is in the hospital just made things 100 times worse!”

Both Applejack and the audience saw the situation moments ago. There was nothing ambiguous about it. A better line would be “You just made things 100 times worse!”

There are other, similar lines in the episode. While they are likely not as prevalent as I make them seem, they do have an effect on the overall quality. Dialogue like that is unnatural, and feels pandering.

Overall, I have to give Where the Apple Lies a good rating. It has a small share of problems. But looking past those issues (none of which are major), the episode has a lot of energy, and is never aimless.

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First off, I should say I was rather underwhelmed by the episode. Maybe a good idea, but poorly executed. Also, I've never been a fan of flashback episodes. They rank far down there, but are better than "dream" episodes (or seasons for Dallas) and "twins change places" episodes (too cliché for me even to dignify it with an example).

I will say that both the lack of Applejack's parents and Apple Bloom raises unanswered questions. Where are they? Where did they go? How did they die? Does Apple Bloom know?

I've been mulling it for a while and I came up with three scenarios:
1. The parents are away. Who knows? Maybe they're out visiting family. They probably would have taken Apple Bloom with them if she is around. And Granny Smith would still be able to say she runs the farm. After all, she is the older, wiser matriarch.
2. Applejack's parents and Apple Bloom really are around, but since we are hearing this from Granny Smith's telling, they aren't included. Either they aren't important to the story or Granny Smith's memory is starting to fade.
3. Applejack's parents are already dead. Now the next question is: Where is Apple Bloom? Well, what if Apple Bloom was adopted? And they treated Applejack and Big Mac as her older siblings? She may be aware of the arrangement or not. But that might explain some things. I know from personal experience that my cousin adopted two boys. I don't think of them as anything less than family. And given that Applejack and Big Mac are too young to be parents, the adopted Apple Bloom could just have been treated as a third child.

I don't know. Let me know what you think. I will say one more thing. It is always nice to hear dialogue from Big Mac. I wish they would let him talk more. They overdid it a bit in this episode, but more than two words would be nice.

Dreadnought

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I just wanted to say I really like your avatar. It's very festive. Can't wait to see Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's.

Dreadnouught

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Check out the corresponding post in my blog, there's a lively detailed discussion going on about the canon-relevant detail of this episode, rather than its artistic merit, and I'd rather not spam the thread with all the details.

But if you want a crazy theory you haven't yet considered, here: "Aunt and uncle Orange" are the actual parents of all three Apple children. They are not actually dead, they're just ponies non grata on the farm. Apple Bloom was not yet born at the time of the flashback.

I don't subscribe to this theory myself, that's just throwing ideas out. But I think it's good for a story for someone.

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It's still up for debate which one of Aunt and Uncle Orange is related to AJ/Mac/Bloom's mother or father. Usually in headcanon it's Aunt Orange, but that's based on the idea of her taking Orange as her name after marriage like Spoiled Rich (nee Milk).

Plus... Stinkin' Rich, Filthy Rich, and Spoiled Milk? Their parents must have hated them. We know Filthy Rich can't stand his name...