Hello all,

I recently happened to be stuck with a problem when working with my fic, a problem that my editors kindly pointed out.

I have my Human character attempt to learn to fight using a certain type of sword of japanese culture. However, he is now located in griffon nations, which in turn is based off Norse Culture, therefore there is a problem.

I want my character to learn to fight using japanese-themed weapon for there is a plot-specific reason and it is needed for the future. If he chooses a different one, he will be stuck with said weapon for quite a long time. Therefore, I want to ask you about which solution should I choose.

1. Explain it as the Blacksmith trying his hand(claws) on making an exotic blade. This allows the main character to start learning with Katana, but is less probable.

2. Have him buy a different weapon, then have him buy said Katana when he is in far more appropriate place. The problem is that he will be stuck with the other weapon for quite a long time. Not to mention, Swords in Japanese Culture and those in Norse culture are quite different in usage and fighting style. Having him learn how to wield both too fast, or suddenly be far better at using the one of japanese-origins, holds possibility of him being viewed as Mary Sue in that department... Or Ichigo, at least. Unless being capable of learning the other type of swordfighting fast since he already knows one, is Acceptable Breaks from Reality.

3. Have him buy that certain different weapon but also buy or make a training version of said japanese-themed weapon, like Bokken. This would enable him to learn with both at the same time and simply say that he decided which one he wants to be with.

Edit: 4. Sentien,Magic or Bound to character Weapon, explains faster mastery.

Which one should I do?

967153 Well, if it's just the three choices, I'd go with 3.

But couldn't you do something like: your human character comes across one of the trading caravans that prowl the Equestria-Griffon Kingdom route. Among the caravan's wares is this katana which really stands out. Your character asks the merchant where he got it, and then buys it because of its strange and out-of-placeness in the Griffon Kingdom. That would allow him to start using a katana, and also explain why one just appeared in the Griffon Kingdom.

967153 I like choice one the most. Maybe if he had say a picture of a katana to show the blacksmith.

967153 i vote for 967177's #4

What if you went a different direction and have him find it a ruin or enemy base somewhere, and take it for his own? That would open a lot of new opportunity for story telling without plot holes, maybe even foreshadow a bit.

967153 I’m not familiar with your story but for this specific situation he could stumble upon a lone trader from ‘distant lands’ that are more suitably in character with the weapon. Personally I’d recommend using Kirin for the race but that’s a personal preference.

I’d also recommend acquiring a Bokken or perhaps more appropriately a Shinai simply for the sake of believability and specifically the later as it can be used as a weapon with significantly less instruction. You just don’t pick up those kinds of weapons and use them with no training.

Hey, what's wrong with a proper zweihänder to go chopping down on his foes?

I'd vote for number 2 in a "the 13th warrior" kind of deal, where he keeps using the nordic sword wrong.

967177 That sounds eminently reasonable; caravans go everywhere - sometimes reaching places not on the current maps, a thing that has historical backing. Spices and silk reached Europe via Palestine along the Silk Road, and the Far Eastern regions were terra incognito for the longest time.
It not only works, it could give ideas for intrigue later. Intrigue later always appeals.

Swords in Equestria have never made a heck of a lot of sense to me because they don't lend themselves well to mouth wielding. You would need insanely strong teeth to avoid having them knocked out of your mouth every time you hit something and you risk breaking your neck with every block.

Of course, there are exceptions

967177
967224
967270

A travelling caravan/trader...

You guys just saved the day.

Seriously, I wonder why in a team of 5 editors + me nobody ever thought of this. This idea explains so much, is believable and it is simple! Thank you!

967257

Well, it would also be additional cost. If adventuring party doesn't earn money by killing monsters, running out of money quickly becomes an issue. Though don't worry, starting training with any weapon brings the period of "I suck."

Also, Zweihander wouldn't really fit when someone's physique and all physical traits point to him being a "Fragile Speedster" Take a random Rouge and give him Cloud's Buster Sword... Damn, now I want to see a Rouge Dual Wielding Buster Swords.

967224

Ah, Bokken would be way better for training. After all, if you are training with a friend, accidentially cutting them with real blade isn't the way to spread the friendships.

967153
How about this?

Why not, instead of making him all awesomely weebabaloo by giving him a supah kawaii japanesy sword, you make him use a normal medieval weapon at first and then searching for a lighter weapon he gets said japanese sword?
Then, the japanese sword gets him involved further into the plot-specific reason.

967277 exception to this being he is a badass bro-wolf

Though I can't see any character in MLP holding a weapon coming anywhere near the badassery of Sif.

OT: I see the characters in MLP using two types of weapons, though your human may be different since... well human...

1) pole weapons, (spear, trident, halberd, lance) since they have reach and can be utilized with speed while charging
2) gauntlet weapons such as claws or spikes to hook on to their hooves.

Don't bother with logic! Everything works better with a katana.
If you really need a reason, an aged, traveling ronin might be a source. That would also solve your other problem: Just having a sword will not help you much if you have no one to teach you how to handle it. And don't think that someone who has used a broadsword or axe for all his life might be able to teach you how to use a katana. That only works in RPGs.

967153 The katanna is completly out of the question if we are dealing with Norse tech.
They have no access to the chemicals that will harden the steel as it gets folded. The weapon will be brittle and break easily.

If he has a ninja background he could go with throwing knives, universal to most cultures and just have the blacksmith do some slight mods.

If it has to be a sword like weapon, then you could go with the Saber, you still have the slicing motion and not to big of a strech to get a sharp edge on both sides, since it is a curved weapon. You character will just have to slightly modify his style since the saber as a diffrent feel from the katanna, but you said he'll have this for awhile sooo, not out of the range of possibility.

Then you can always go for another weapon slightly universal, the blade on the end of a long stick. They had pikes in Norse cluture, and since the Europeans had their own varaitions of that, then it is more likely you get a good approximation of that type of weapon for your human....

I'd go with number two.

Ah, I see youve got it figured out. Guess you were thinking so hard that you guys missed solution number one.

967459
It almost seems mean to say it this way, but it does help emphasize a point that very much warrants consideration. Just because a katana would be cool doesn't mean that it should be implemented. HiE fics always come across (at least to me) as being self insert, wish fulfillment fodder. If events line up so the character gets what he wants, then that aspect of the story is going to be even more heavily emphasized and turn off even more readers (again, I can't speak for EVERYONE, this is just how I would react to it, but I have no doubts that there are plenty of others who would agree)

Instead of letting this character get that super cool katana, you could make a whole bit about him WANTING a katana but not being able to find one, and having to make do with what was available. This decreases the mary-sue aspects by specifically NOT having circumstances bend over backwards to give him what he wants.

This could even be used as a comedic plot-device, as it would give him an excuse to not be good with what weapons he has and to make mistakes, which he can then grumble about and blame on the weapons and how he'd be totally fine if he only had that katana he really wanted (making him relatable) maybe even have him make his own katana, which he is so stoked about, only to have it break on the first time he actually uses it in batter, which could then set up the future for when he actually finds a QUALITY katana, that he's afraid to use it because he doesn't want to risk it breaking. At that point, when he SHOULD be focusing on "epic battle of honor and grit" he's actually fussing over and trying to PROTECT the weapon that he should be USING to protect himself.

It would even allow you to introduce enchanted weapons and have other characters commenting on how powerful they are, but the mary sue aspects of this would be softened, because your character would be going "well, yeah, but it's not a katana."

967870 Actually norse tech would be fine as they beat the Far East to the punch when it came to pattern welding, the technique used in making katanas. As for chemicals, no chemicals are added to the blade. At most they'll add charcoal when heating it up to increase the carbon content of the blade as tamahagane, the iron sand used in the construction of the blades had poor carbon content. It was because of that, that Japanese bladesmiths needed to fold the blade so many times, to even out the carbon content in the different sections of the blade.

967153 As it is, personally I would not use the katana for the story for many reasons, the biggest being that the katana has been so overhyped by media that it's become a go to weapon for many sues. The rainbow-eyed elf princess walking through Middle-Earth with her trusty katana by her side being an all too common occurrence

Part of that is the katana's status as an exotic weapon. Just by owning one it sets the wielder apart. Add in the fact your character is a human in Equestria and things get even worse.

967459 Fun fact, the weight difference between a European longsword and a katana is practically nothing. Both are about 3 lbs, so having the move to katana be because the character wants a lighter weapon won't fly.

#1 sounds good to me. It would give you opportunity to explore the griffon swordsmith. A sword is something that takes time to make, perhaps your character can build a relationship with this fellow. It'd be a great way to world-build and provides a nice chance at character exploration for the swordsan and swordsmith.

By the way, I don't know a lot about swords, but I do know that katanas are meant strictly for slashing (should be obvious by the design). So really, fighting anything with any real armor... is probably not a good idea.

967383 I never recommended using a real blade, a Shinai is just a different type of practise blade.

The thing about these swords is they are meant to be used in combination with training armour. Otherwise they still hit hard enough to brake bones when used properly.

968074

Unless he did already train with Bokken, therefore would be being more used to such thing as Bokken is the size and shape of katana.

While it is a fact that Katana tends to be overused, it IS a good weapon. True, it may break fast if you were to block with it, which people tend to avoid doing in real fight, but it is still sharp and fast.

Also, it is more focused on slashing. It may actually even fit more with a person who is a Fragile Speedster.

968061

True, but what could be similar to Katana to have him not waste months of training with it?

I believe I found an answer now. Lange Messer, if it were to have a longer handle with no guard or additional grips on it, it MIGHT be similar enough to a Katana. A bit lighter, with the length of blade also being similar. Curved and single edged. A good replacement until he gains Katana.

What do you guys think?

970225
There is no such thing as wasting time training with a weapon. Even if he does find a katana, there's no guarantee he'll always have a katana available. From a survival perspective he's far better off to learn with whatever is available.

970225 Oh lord that vid. Soooo many things wrong with it. For one they don't even test using the same swings. instead they judge a horizontal slice with the longsword versus the vertical slice with the katana, which is the strongest blow you can make. They fail to half hand the long sword during the stab test, allowing it to expend a lot of it's energy on the upward flex.

As for the langes messer, it might be a bit too unknown. As in the exact opposite as the katana overhype problem. You could go with something like a saber or heck something like a scimitar if you want to keep with a slashing weapon like the katana.

970513

Well, I simply had the problem of not being able to judge which swords are similar to katana, as in, in usage.

However, now that I think about it... You are right. A Choice between saber and scimitar. He can always make or buy a Bokken and train with it too.

970619 Plus he can also learn to use other weapons as well to make him more well rounded. Hell Samurai rarely actually used their swords, they usually started off a battle with a barrage of arrows. They also used polearms, which you almost never see in stories, most people preferring to stick to sword and shield. You also never see a protagonist that uses a spear for more than a few seconds before switching to the sword.

967153

My question.

Who teaches him?

Seriously, who the hell teaches him how to use a weapon like that? The Gryphons? The bird-people who likely implement the ability to fly and glide in to their tactics? Or perhaps the ponies? The creatures with no opposable thumbs and thus the species requiring use of either their mouths or magic -- of which I imagine your character only has one. I don't mean to offend with this but that is something that has to be addressed. I myself have practiced with a variety of swords and bladed weaponry for several years, and though my particular fondness lies with the axe, I first began with swords, and thus I feel I know at least enough to comment here. It is extremely hard to train yourself on even some of the more simple styles past a certain level, even with the materials that would help which he likely wouldn't have quick/any access to.

Now, let's put ourselves in to another field I know quite a bit about: firearms.

Take Joe Average. The closest thing he's ever gotten to handling a live firearm is Call of Duty and he's never gotten any closer than that in his entire life. His friends and family are pretty much the same way. You give him an M16/M4, and for over a month instructors teach him proper trigger squeeze, cleaning and maintaining the weapon, loading and unloading the weapon, sight picture, grouping, and all the other things that you need in order to be a decent shot. Take him to a range and he pegs 40/40 without missing a beat. Joe Average is an expert with an M16/M4 weapons system.

Now hand Joe A. an AK-47. Has he qualified as an expert on this weapon system? No, he hasn't, but it's in the same field. Anybody who has handled firearms can tell you that an M16 and an AK-47 are on opposite ends of the assault rifle spectrum in the mixing of machinegun (AK-47) and long-range rifle (M-16). However, anybody familiar with firearms can use one or the other. They understand the principles of operating the bolt, cleaning and maintaining the weapon, loading and unloading, proper safety procedures, and other similarly pressing matters. Joe Average may not be as initially good with the Kalashnikov as he was with the M-16, but he'll do better if you take Suzy Q. fresh off the streets and just toss one her way without any familiarization or instruction how to use the dang thing properly.

Your character trains in swordsmanship, though in the more European style, and develops skills that will easily carry over. All the while it provides him with a goal in the plot. He wants/needs that katana, but he doesn't have it. Why? Because the universe is a dick to everybody except Mary Sue/Gary Stu, and so your character actually needs to work for what he wants. He doesn't get it handed to him, it's not just something that he can buy, and you can be sure he's going to be bleeding and winded by the time that he actually gets to what he wants in the end if you want to avoid being a Mary Sue/Gary Stu. That's my opinion, anyhow.

Also, seemingly impossible goals/wishes can make for good character as well. For example, I am doing a crossover/HiE where an OC character of Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon series is brought in to Equestria shortly after an event in which he loses a leg below the knee and it's replaced with a prosthetic. What does he want in life? Well, after some rather disheartening news from the Princesses all he wants to get back is his damn leg. If he could have one thing from his old life it would be the lost third/rough half of one of his appendages. Will he get it? Probably not, unless I come up with some magic maguffin that fixes the problem. Does he want it? Oh hell yes, especially since having a prosthetic limbs puts him at a severe disadvantage in several points of the story.

970818
968061
These posts.

Probably way more informative than my pointless ramblings, but take it as you will.

971015

I'm already using the information gained from all of you while rewriting the chapters, to avoid Katana use... And make the fic better, thus rewrite.

While you are right about Griffons using gliding and flying in their tactics, relying only on utilizing the ability of flight during fight would be just stupid. I mean, there are many plausible scenarios where flying is not possible. Also... Well, in my verse, griffon culture is separated into clans. It can be done that each clan has different approach to fighting. Plus, it is easier to stand your ground when you ARE on said ground.

I admit it, you did bring up important points about Griffon fighting styles. You also made some of my worries melt away when you described how some skills can be also used when using a different weapon of the same field.

Also, you are assuming that they are not going to find any books regarding swordfighting in many cities they will travel. That plus caravans.

970818

Unless they were Musashi... Still, he also used an oar once. He was the truest badass though.

You know what? I have to remember the spear... Though Lance would fit better. Though don't worry, you will see a different character using said weapon.

971234 Actually if I recall, Musashi wasn't a very big fan of the katana. Think he preferred longer weapons, hence why he whittled that oar into a weapon on his way to that duel. Gave him greater reach on top of his psychological advantage (he deliberately showed up late to piss the guy off)

973421

Actually, he fought with any weapon that would make sure he won. He first Double Wielded with a Katana and a shorter weapon... Then he Double Wielded Two Katanas. When a person creates fighting style using Double Wielding Katanas and is still good at fighting, you know he is awesome.

973436 I don't recall him using two full katanas. mainly because they are two handed single edge weapons. If it was a combo using swords with shorter blades, that I can easily see. Two full length katanas? If true then he was massively drunk...which I wouldn't put past him honestly.

973527

We should make a separate topic for dicussing badass level of Musashi. I'm pretty sure at some point he did train Dual Wielding full length katanas too.

974560 Actually I think he did but discarded it as....well stupid. Which it is. I say this now, because I just remembered a piece in which someone asked him about the advantages and disadvantages of blade length. Why would this matter? Because katanas are blade heavy, more so than european longsword which balance pretty close to the hilt. A sword that's blade heavy (relative term as there's really no such thing as a heavy sword) can slash through things with greater ease. As you can guess a sword made in a similar fashion to a katana but smaller would have less balance issues.