For the longest time I have always spelled Unicorn, Pegasus, and Earth Pony without capital letters. That seemed to be the convention, and for a time, I accepted the reasoning surrounding it. However, I have recently had an epiphany. I realized that the convention is dead wrong. “Earth Pony,” “Pegasus,” and “Unicorn” should always be capitalized. Always.

The convention usually uses the logic that, since it is improper to capitalize “cat,” “dog,” and “horse,” then surely you would use the same convention for the three races, right? Wrong. Sure, a Pegasus seems as different from an Earth Pony as a bat is to a chipmunk, but that isn’t really the case at all. They are more akin to breeds.

Take horses for example. Sure, you never capitalize “horse,” but what about “Mustang,” “Clydesdale,” or “Appaloosa?” Breeds are always capitalized, and not just for horses—Chihuahua, Saint Bernard, Russian Blue, or Siamese, for example.

So, the question then becomes do these various types of pony qualify as different groups like dog and coyote, or do they happen to be separate breeds of dog like a Basset Hound or Collie? To answer that, we need to consider how “dog” and “coyote” are different from “Basset Hound” and “Collie.”

A lot of it is semantics, but the major deciding factor comes down to old-fashioned reproduction. A Basset Hound will naturally mate with a Collie, but a dog won’t naturally mate with a coyote. Don’t get me wrong, a dog and coyote can mate, but let’s face it; if there’s a coyote in your backyard, it probably isn’t there to cuddle with Fido. Given the opportunity, dogs will form their own packs separate from coyote packs and they will not often interact in positive ways.

So where do ponies fall on this scale? Well, the Cakes have proven that Pegasi and Unicorns and Earth Ponies all intermingle. This puts the three types of pony closer to the category of breeds than separate classes of animal. Therefore, they should be capitalized.

Now, is this case a slam dunk? No. It just muddies the issue. All of this is simply to refute the standard—an important part of the process of making a case against said standard. The thing that made me forever decide to capitalize the different types of pony is a different convention altogether.

Let me ask you: Are the only differences between Earth Ponies, Unicorns, and Pegasi physical? Are wings and horns and abilities the only thing that separates the groups? If you thought “yes,” then you are dead wrong.

The Hearthswarming Eve episode gives us some insight into pony history. It shows us that each of the three races have their own, unique history, customs, and culture. What do we designate a subsection of the population with these unique traits? They are an ethnic group.

Now, let me ask you: What the convention is for ethnic groups? There is no grey area here. Capitalize. Always. Period. One would never insult a person’s ethnicity and tradition by failing to capitalize Latino, Native American, or Caucasian. In much the same manner, it would be demeaning to fail to capitalize Earth Pony, Unicorn, or Pegasus because they are not only different physically, they are different culturally.

TL;DR – Earth Ponies, Unicorns, and Pegasi aren’t just different physical types of pony in the way a dog is different from a cat. They are their own ethnic groups with their own customs, heritage, and history. As such, they demand the same respect we give to our ethnic groups such as Native American or Latino. Give them a capital letter.

4062266 I always capitalize them. I just thought it looked proper.

That, and since "Pegasus" is taken from a proper name in Greek mythology, it just seemed more appropriate to me.

4062266

4062266 At the same time, you'll only sparingly use those names unless you've fallen victim to LUS.

That said, while you do have a good point, it's not worth making a big deal about if someone chooses not to capitalize them. Personal preference and all that.

4062266

Now, let me ask you: What the convention is for ethnic groups? There is no grey area

Joke's on you; we don't capitalise ethnicities in my language.

4062266

One would never insult a person’s ethnicity and tradition by failing to capitalize Latino, Native American, or Caucasian.

Wait, races need to the capitalized?

...so you're saying "human" should instead be "Human" too?

In much the same manner, it would be demeaning to fail to capitalize Earth Pony, Unicorn, or Pegasus because they are not only different physically, they are different culturally

That...doesn't even begin to make sense in the context of the show. I mean, Pound Cake is a pegasus, Pumpkin is a unicorn, and Mr. and Mrs. Cake are earth ponies. You're suggesting their children are going to be raised as per a different culture than that of their own twin sibling and of their own parents a.k.a. the ones actually raising them.

Also, I don't get why you're using something about dog breeding involving wolves or whatever to justify a purely grammatical nuance. Frankly, just going off the basic definition of capitalization being only needed for the beginning of sentences or proper nouns; "unicorn," "pegasus," and "earth pony" should be lowercase as they do not refer to a specific individual person, place, or thing, but a general classification such as how cats and dogs are determined to not be frogs but are not capitalized because those are not proper nouns being used.

I don't know why you wanted to get ethnicities involved, since that would mean you want breeds of ponies involved as Pipsqueak's existence proves pinto ponies exist;

Of note; "pinto" is a recognized horse breed based on the coloration, but it is NOT capitalized. And neither is the mustang, for that matter.

4062394
4062266

From The Blue Book of Grammar and Punctuation.

Races, nationalities, and tribes
Eskimo, Navajo, East Indian, Caucasian, African American (Note: white and black in reference to race are lowercase)

Upon double checking capitalization rules, I now need to edit my stories. Arg!

What should we do next: Something good, something bad? Bit of both? - Starlord

Microsoft word will automatically capitalize Pegasus because it is actually the name of a specific winged horse that we as a society made into a breed. So I capitalized the others to match. I think. But I also think you're right, I've always called them tribes, so they would need to be capitalized.

At the same time its not anything I would give an author a lot of trouble over. I'm sure that I've forgotten to capitalize or decided not to in a sentence a few times without considering the full range of what that meant.

4062266
You could trim this waaaay down to size just by stating that in-verse Pegasus, Unicorn, and Earth ponies are considered ethnic groups.
4062465
I think it's funny that "Caucasian" is used to refer to all the myriad types of white people at once. When specifically it refers to Cossacks.

4062477

I know, right? How many white people have actually been to the Caucasus Mountains, much less are from there?

What should we do next: Something good, something bad? Bit of both? - Starlord

4062266 In Hasbro's book The Journal of the Two Sisters, pony races are capitalized. What Hasbro says is canon.

4062496
What's even funnier is when I say I'm Czech Romani. People think that Roma and Romanians are the same people.

You know, I've been sitting here for five minutes trying to think of a way to properly argue against this.

But I can't.

The point is valid, so I cannot make a simple, solid argument against the style anymore. However, the usage of lowercase, I believe, is still acceptable.

As you mention, capitalization would be proper because they are technically ethnic groups. But I'm sure most authors do not think of them in that way, but rather as species. And as authors think of them in terms of species, lowercase should still be fine. And even in terms of the show, it seems that the terms are thrown around as referring to one's species.

Like more alternates to 'man' or 'person'.

Plus I find that all the uppercase can get a bit obnoxious. But that's just me.

It's definitely food for thought, and it's annoying me because of how much it logically breaks down my conventions. Similar to how nouns are always capitalized in other languages.

After rereading BlueBastard's comment, I think I've got it straightened out.

There's a proper time and place for each usage. For the common use, lowercase is correct, as it is used in reference to the species. The line gets blurred as they are a unified Equestria. But in general, when a writer refers to a pony, it's, well, just that. A pony. A specific type of pony.

4062266, I follow the "space opera" convention as used by David Drake:

Sapient races are capitalized via analogy with real world ethnic groups.

Simple and easy to follow.

4062474

Microsoft word will automatically capitalize Pegasus [...]. So I capitalized the others to match.

This grammatical quibble has fair points on both sides, and could go either way... but never let MS Word's grammar checker decide things for you. It's wrong far too often.

4062509

they are technically ethnic groups

Eh, not really. We have an earth pony giving birth to a pegasus and a unicorn in the show. Under our earth-based understanding of ethnic groups, a mother could never give birth to two babies who are both in different ethnic groups.

4062612 I usually don't. It just got way easier to capitalize Unicorn and Earth Pony than go back and fix Pegasus every single time. I often ignore Word's grammar, especially in dialogue, since no one actually speaks the way we write.

4062636
"Add to dictionary."
Congrats, I fixed your problem.

4062646
Definitely. Almost every pony-specific term and name is in my custom dictionary by now, which actually makes the spellcheck useful again.

Okay, employee of the US Fish & Wildlife Service chiming in here, so I have a little bit of experience on the issue. Keep in mind this addresses biology only, and not any effects of magic.

The fact is, all these tribes we see (earth pony, pegasi, etc.) are all subspecies of the same parent species (or else the Cake twins couldn't exist or would be earth ponies as well.). That being said, amongst subspecies that can successfully breed with one another, they tend not to have names that really separate one taxon from another, unless the name was already including a proper noun (c.f. the Japanese raccoon dog, Nyctereutes procyonides viverrinus, from the Korean raccoon dog, N. p. koreensis, the Russian raccoon dog, N. p. ussurensis, and so on and so forth.)

In the case of Earth ponies, we're referring to ground vice planet, so it's lowercase. In the case of pegasi, Pegasus is the group name for winged horses (which, mythologically also includes the Kazakh tulpar - which can also be an alicorn sometimes - and the Chinese senrima) and in any case, pegasi has never been capped. For alicorns, same rule as earth ponies - we're talking about the corrupted French term for " winged unicorns", not the horn itself - though that's also from French.

Just my two bits; ultimately, it's up to the author.

4062612
Okay, they used to be ethnic groups. Until reality ensued and now we have mixed-ethnicity families and so referring to earth ponies, unicorns, and pegasi is much more common in terms of their species, instead of Earth Ponies, Unicorns, and Pegasi ethnicities.

... Does that work?

4062656
Aye, for any writing you have to do it. Trying to write hard SF, fantasy, ponies, or SF ponies is a good way to host a squiggly line convention.

Also all grammar checkers choke on dialog. Sometimes just for having quotation marks. It doesn't help that people almost exclusively speak in run-on or fragmented sentences.

4062266
In the case of collie, it is both a type and a breed. When referring to the type or category of dog breeds, it is not capitalized; when referring to the specific breed, then it is capitalized. In the case of ponies, I see it like this; pegasus, unicorn, and earth pony, refer to general types, not breeds, and so should not be capitalized. My reasoning: We've seen both Pipsqueak and the Saddle Arabian ponies that both could be categorized as earth ponies, but were clearly different enough to be considered different breeds, making earth pony a general category. It therefor follows that the other two are general categories as well.

4062503 That isn't canon with the show.

4062719

Licensed source material is expanded universe canon, at the very least.

What should we do next: Something good, something bad? Bit of both? - Starlord

4062719 How about the transcripts scripts then?

How will I do without my magic

Help the Earth pony way

Rainbow Dash: Heh! Looks like this Pegasus can pitch better than the workhorse.

Is that canon enough for you?

4062738
If you copied that strait from the transcripts then it seems even they can't make up their minds. Earth pony is only half capitalized. Of course it looks to me that whoever typed up the transcript had autocorrect turned on... either that or they just can't make up their minds...

From 'Flight to the Finish':

Apple Bloom: We are Earth ponies!
Sweetie Belle: We are unicorns!
Scootaloo: We are Pegasi! And the town where friendship reigns is our home. Now, welcome to the stadium, the flag of the place we love best...

4062735 Except this is an instance where, even if it is canon, not only does it only apply to the princesses (and way back in ancient times, for that matter), but it's a matter of personal preference. Therefore, whether or not you capitalize means nothing as far as staying accurate to the show and/or expanded material is concerned.

4062738 No, it is not. Again, personal preference. Not even those who write the transcripts can say with any factual basis which way is correct, because it's too subjective for a correct way to even exist.

4062707
I agree with this. The main 3 pony types are general types more so than specific breeds. To add to the examples Nebular Star gave, Ms. Peachbottom called herself a Mustang, and you have Crystal Ponies. So there's two other possible breeds of earth ponies. And for pegasi, there's the bat ponies as a specific breed of them. There could be more examples in the world.

4062738
I think you need to learn the difference between "transcript" and "script". "transcript" means it's been transcribed, as in, written down FROM the spoken material. In other words, that says nothing at all about the original way it was intended to be written.

4062461

...so you're saying "human" should instead be "Human" too?

No. The equivalent of "human" is "pony," neither of which is captialized. I'm saying Pegasus, Unicorn, and Earth Pony, the equivalent of Caucasian, French, and European, should be. In the most basic terms: All Native Americans are human. Not all humans are Native American. All Pegasi are ponies. Not all ponies are Pegasi.

"unicorn," "pegasus," and "earth pony" should be lowercase as they do not refer to a specific individual person, place, or thing, but a general classification such as how cats and dogs are determined to not be frogs but are not capitalized because those are not proper nouns being used.

How do you refer to a person outside of their color? (e.g. white, black, brown, yellow, blue...). You can use other descriptors such as tall or rotund, which are relative to the entire population, or you can refer to what subset of the population ("general classification") they belong. Any time you use what subset of the population they belong to, you capitalize it. European, Asian, Latino, Jewish, Czechoslovakian--it doesn't matter--it's always capitalized. It is capitalized because these groups of collective persons is important and distinct, and not just physically. Ergo, just because it is an individual, doesn't mean you can get away with failing to capitalize.

4062509

Okay, they used to be ethnic groups. Until reality ensued and now we have mixed-ethnicity families and so referring to earth ponies, unicorns, and pegasi is much more common in terms of their species, instead of Earth Ponies, Unicorns, and Pegasi ethnicities.

... Does that work?

So there aren't ethnicities in the melting pot that is America? Damn. Guess I can't call myself Caucasian or Native American anymore. I guess I'll just have to be "person from that big country beneath Canada."

Looking at it another way, how many mixed-ethnicity families are there in Equestria? By my count, far fewer than homogeneous ones. Think about it, with the exception of Ponyville, most pony settlements are primarily homogeneous. Canterlot is primarily Unicorns. Manehattan is primarily Earth Ponies. Cloudsdale is entirely Pegasi.

4062612

Eh, not really. We have an earth pony giving birth to a pegasus and a unicorn in the show. Under our earth-based understanding of ethnic groups, a mother could never give birth to two babies who are both in different ethnic groups.

You're treading choppy waters. Take, for example, two people who are one-half Asian and one-half European. They could easily have two children where one appears very Asian and the other appears very European. This extrapolates out to previous generations housing varying ehtnicities in newborns, but it gets orders of magnitude more unlikely each generation you go back. Furthermore, your argument is based entirely on a case study. There are zero other references to this phenomenon. Unless you can prove Mr. Cake is the father, your theory holds no water at all.

Now, I say this is choppy water because there are households with children vastly different from the ethnicity of the parents. This invariably leads to a personal crisis wherein the individual has to adopt their parent's ethnicity, or embrace their own. Truth is they can be either one, at least in their heart (and on legal documents).

4062688
Yes. They will now be spelled: Eearth Ppony, Uunicorn, and Ppegasus.

4062669
Yes, this I like.

4062266

I go with whatever looks nicest (to me), and aesthetically-speaking Unicorn, Earth, Pegasus and Alicorn look ungainly.

4062965

No. The equivalent of "human" is "pony," neither of which is captialized. I'm saying Pegasus, Unicorn, and Earth Pony, the equivalent of Caucasian, French, and European, should be. In the most basic terms: All Native Americans are human. Not all humans are Native American. All Pegasi are ponies. Not all ponies are Pegasi.

You're telling me "pony" is not capitalized...while you capitalize it in "Earth Pony." Wha?

How do you refer to a person outside of their color? (e.g. white, black, brown, yellow, blue...). You can use other descriptors such as tall or rotund, which are relative to the entire population, or you can refer to what subset of the population ("general classification") they belong. Any time you use what subset of the population they belong to, you capitalize it.

Uh...I refer to their dress, their hair style/color, the thing that they are doing at that moment, their facial features (I.E. a large nose and tiny ears), the way they carry themselves, their manner of speaking, the car they drive, etc.?

Because I'd be shocked if you can tell me what ethnicity Homer Simpson is by going off of nothing but the color of his skin.

European, Asian, Latino, Jewish, Czechoslovakian--it doesn't matter--it's always capitalized.

Well, yes, because those are referring to places and things with proper nouns for names.

It is capitalized because these groups of collective persons is important and distinct, and not just physically. Ergo, just because it is an individual, doesn't mean you can get away with failing to capitalize.

So...we should also start referring to all rocks as "Rocks" since the show has two specific stones that bear names - Tom and Boulder?

4063220

You're telling me "pony" is not capitalized...while you capitalize it in "Earth Pony." Wha?

By that logic, you shouldn't capitalize pony in the band's name "Trick Pony." When a word that is normally not capitalized is part of a group name or title that is capitalized, it gets capitalized, too. Funny how it works like that.

>

You can use other descriptors such as tall or rotund, which are relative to the entire population, or you can refer to what subset of the population ("general classification") they belong. Any time you use what subset of the population they belong to, you capitalize it.

>

Uh...I refer to their dress, their hair style/color, the thing that they are doing at that moment, their facial features (I.E. a large nose and tiny ears), the way they carry themselves, their manner of speaking, the car they drive, etc.?

Because I'd be shocked if you can tell me what ethnicity Homer Simpson is by going off of nothing but the color of his skin.

Try to stay on topic... You're responding to my framing device for my point and not the point itself.

Well, yes, because those are referring to places and things with proper nouns for names.

Okay, what about Cherokee, Inuit, or Iroquoians? The point is that any group of humans that have a shared heritage, culture, history, or even geography is always capitalized. No exceptions. I assert that Pegasi, Unicorns, and Earth Ponies fall under this banner. They (Pegasi, etc.) are unique cultural groups, and any cultural or ethnic group is always capitalized.

So...we should also start referring to all rocks as "Rocks" since the show has two specific stones that bear names - Tom and Boulder?

An interesting proposition. Do you feel that rocks have a shared culture? If you feel that they do, then yes, capitalize rocks. I find it hard to see something inanimate as having a culture, though. Also, why leave out Rocky? Just because he was technically a stack of rocks and met his untimely demise by Rainbow Dash...

4062965
Let's look at this from their standpoint.

It's now a unified Equestria (demonym, Equestrian). Although it's very, very likely that there are still purebred ethnic groups (of Earth Ponies/Unicorns/Pegasi), there's also the very real fact that there are also mixed families out there with mixed genes (source: clopfics. Oh, and the Cakes).

It would be reasonable that in common written usage, the terms earth pony/unicorn/pegasus refer to the species/breed of the pony in question, not ethnicity (so technically a matter of political correctness). It's an extension of the general term 'pony', slightly narrowed down in category to earth pony/unicorn/pegasus.

4063366
Just because a family is mixed, the children don't grow into adults who have a pride in their heritage and the accomplishments of their ancestors? You're asserting that Bamm Bamm Pound Cake won't ask questions about his Pegasi ancestors as he grows older? He won't care about where he came from and won't identify with his own heritage?

A mixed family makes one's heritage more important, not less. A person, and by extension pony, needs to feel as though they belong. One's heritage helps vastly to fill this need.

On the flipside of that, is the downside to an ethnic group. Many folks, at least in fanon, seem rather eager to come up with racial slurs for Unicorns and Pegasi and Earth Ponies. This is a de facto validation of an ethnic group. For there to be a stereotype and associated slurs, there has to be an ethnic group.

4062266
I didn't expect this to make sense. I didn't even expect to care about it. But I agree.

4062281
4062316
4062342
4062388
4062394
4062509
4062394
Notice how we don't capitalize white or black, but do capitalize African-American?

There's a reason for this.

4062266
We don't capitalize breeds of dog or horse.

"But TD!" you cry, "look at all these examples!"

Do we capitalize mustang?

Nope! (Someone clearly didn't use Google; just look at the Wikipedia article).

Do we capitalize German Shepherd?

Yup!

And here's why: German Shepherd is derived from a proper noun; mustang is not.

If something is a proper noun or derived from a proper noun, it is capitalized.

If something is not, then it is not unless it is the first word of a sentence.

Earth pony and unicorn are not derived from proper nouns, and ergo should not be capitalized. However, Appleloosan would be capitalized because it is derived from a proper noun.

Thus, Chihuahua is capitalized because the name is derived from Chihuahua, the place. Siamese is capitalized because the name is derived from Siam. Russian Blue is, obviously, derived from "Russia", and Saint Bernard is named after the Saint Bernard Hospice.

Some argue that Pegasus should be capitalized because it is derived from the mythical greek horse; others argue it should not be, because it is being used in-universe as a generic noun - which is not-infrequent in fiction.

But earth pony and unicorn definitely should not be capitalized, as neither is a proper noun nor derived from a proper noun.

Now, let me ask you: What the convention is for ethnic groups? There is no grey area here. Capitalize. Always. Period. One would never insult a person’s ethnicity and tradition by failing to capitalize Latino, Native American, or Caucasian. In much the same manner, it would be demeaning to fail to capitalize Earth Pony, Unicorn, or Pegasus because they are not only different physically, they are different culturally.

We capitalize those words because they're derived from proper nouns (Latin America, America, and Caucasus respectively), not to show respect.

When we call someone white or black, we don't capitalize it; we do capitalize Asian, because Asia is a place-name. If you go by the color names of races (white, black, yellow, redskin) you don't capitalize those; we use Native American or American Indian in the place of redskin now and Asian in the place of yellow (the color names are today perceived as offensive by some folks), but we still use black and white all the time, and neither is capitalized.

4064182

We don't capitalize breeds of dog or horse.

Meh, that's how I was taught. Though I wasn't taught well, clearly. I've learned far more about grammar and such from writing fanfiction than I ever did in a classroom.

I don't even really care that much about the semantics of what to call an animal, to be honest. As I made clear, I changed my mind based on cultural and ethnic rules, as opposed to generic classes of animal. Granted, most ethnic groups are derived from proper nouns, but many originate as simply what a particular group identified itself as. When new groups are formed, they adopt a name for themselves and it is capitalized (e.g. Scientologists). This logic traces back to our colorful equine friends. As I have repeatedly stated, the different races all have unique history and culture, thus they are ethnic groups and should be capitalized.

4064265

As I have repeatedly stated, the different races all have unique history and culture, thus they are ethnic groups and should be capitalized.

No, they really don't.

Hearth's Warming did nothing but show they have had the same culture dating back before the alicorn princesses even came into the picture.

4062477 An ethnic group is a group of people who share a language. So they are not different ethnic groups.

4062266

One thing I'm surprised hasn't been brought up is donkeys and mules. Both are canon in mlp, and a mule is the offspring of a donkey and a mare. (whereas a stallion and a donkey would be a hinny). Would you capitalize them, or leave them lowercase?

--arcum42

4064746
...? Who is to say that they don't?

4062496
About the same as the number of "African-Americans" who are actually immigrants from Africa to the United States.

4063426

Many folks, at least in fanon, seem rather eager to come up with racial slurs for Unicorns and Pegasi and Earth Ponies. This is a de facto validation of an ethnic group.

So, someone else's fanon necessarily impacts everyone else?
Nigga, what you smokin?