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How do I think of a good idea for a story? How do I take an idea and develop it to where I have something to work off of when I sit down to write a story? When a pre-reader says I need to work on something, but I'm unsure of how to approach the situation, what do I do from there? I've written a number of stories, and none of them have really worked as far as I could tell. Many of my flaws are related to forming ideas, so I figured I'd ask this question, even if it's stupid.
3646743
Outline, outline, outline! You can't get anywhere with an idea if you don't have a clue how to get where you need to go! You don't have to have every single last detail down, but a good starting place would definitely be figuring out little stopping points and then figuring out how to get to said stopping points in a readable manner.
3646765 Sounds reasonable. Thanks for the advice!
This is also related to your answer, but what tips do you have in the outlining phase of writing? I have done some outlining for each of my stories, but I might not be doing it right. It doesn't have to be too in-depth, but some advice would be helpful.
The issue isn't necessarily how do I think of a good idea for a story, the issue is how to I take my idea and make a good story out of it. Pretty much any idea can be a good story, if done well. So your question
is the more apropos one.
My advice, when thinking about a story is to expand off of the original idea, to think about if X then...
So if your idea was "I want to write about a rematch between AJ and RD in the running of the leaves"...ok...why are they having another race...who challenges who..what do their friends think...how do Apple Bloom and Scootaloo handle their sisters racing. What happens during the race? What's going on in AJ and RD's lives at the moment. Why ? The more questions you can ask and answer the better your story will be.
Note that not every question you ask will make it into the story. Maybe you decide that nothing spectacular is happening in AJ's life right now. That's cool, but at least you've thought about it.
Hope that helps.
3646774 That helps a lot. Thank you for the advice.
3646773
A good thing to do would look at the big picture and break it down as you go along. Here's an example:
Point A: Character 1 is single.
Point B: Character 1 is in a relationship.
Then, if you want to work out the little things in between, it'd be a little like this:
Point A: Character 1 is single.
Point B: Character 1 meets Character 2, a potential love interest.
Point C: Character 1 and Character 2 develop feelings for one another.
Point D: Character 1 and Character 2 get in a relationship with each other.
You don't have to have everything planned out, but you need to know exactly what the general idea is. If you want a specific outline, like so, you will need to go into detail:
Point A: Character 1 is single.
Point B: Character 1 meets Character 2.
Point C: Character 1 or Character 2 develops feeling for the respective other.
Point D: A tragedy occurs for one of the characters/one character betrays the other/one character gets hurt or in trouble, anything along those lines in which a conflict would occur.
Point E: The other character must prove themself/help the other character/regain the trust of the other character, anything that may expand the conflicts or lead to a resolution.
Point F: Resolution begins to take form and reveals itself.
Point G: Both characters are no longer in the red zone and can live peacefully, for the moment, at the very least.
Point H: Both characters realize feelings and either act on them, or ignores it until later on, leading to a possible new plot.
Point I: An eventual love confession/character death/anything that ends the story somewhere.
This is not the only thing that can be done with it, but yeah, it's just an example.
3646791 Sounds like a place to start. Thanks for sharing.
3646743 Yeah, just take what Harmony Charmer says. You'll do fine with it. Just think on every part and watch it unfold. Ask yourself questions and every answer would lead you to make your story great. Or just keep asking and answering until there is little to nothing left to answer. ...But uh, definitely taking Harmony's advice would do you well.
3646847 Sounds good to me. Thanks for replying.
3646743 My method, psychosis. Just go crazy.
More seriously though, plan things out. First, let the idea come to you, don't search for it. Inspiration can really come from anything and everything. One random thought can lead to a massive story idea. When you get that idea, ask yourself: "What do I want to tell the reader?" What kind of message do you want to send?
When you plan out the story, start with whatever comes to mind first. Regardless of whether it is in the beginning, middle, or end. Heck, one story I'm working on, I have the end planned out before anything else. To use that for an example, think about how to get there. Work backwards if you have to.
If you need to, make an outline. My advice, only outline the major events and leave out the details, no matter how big or small. Let your mind flow as you write it. Think about the characters involved and ask how they would react to the things that happen. Does some pony fall in love? Think about how that might happen, why that would happen, could that even happen, and how others would react.
But no matter what, leave your mind flexible. The major events should be solid but the way it happens should be built upon as you write. Stop and think about the event. Tell yourself the story. Close your eyes and watch it happen. Talk out loud and tell yourself what's going on or pretend to be the characters and role-play the dialogue and interactions.
And always remember, details can change until you're done. Never be closed minded to think that just because you finished a chapter or a scene that you can't add or subtract to make it flow better. Let the story talk to you.
3646891 Thanks for the great advice!
3646743 Just be loose don't try to make it perfect, just write.
If a proofreader gives you some pointers, don't spend time worrying about it, just incorporate it and keep trying until it works.
3646906 Sounds good. Thanks for the advice.
3646743
Never ever write your idea out.
NEVER.
I'm saying that because it's one of the traps that leads you into going off course. Instead, do this:
Steps in idea-making
1. Relax. Listen to some music or something.
2. Let your mind wander, specifically into whatever you want to write about. In this case, ponies.
3. Ask yourself a realistic question either revolving around the show, or a realistic premise in reality.
3.1 Templates of questions
*If x crosses with y, then z will happen.
*If x makes a new y, then z will happen.
*X and Z meet a new alien named Y, how will they react and why?
*E and G are going to an establishment called X, X is notorious for making T, A, and R. E and G work there. What will happen?
There are so many more possibilities to this, but your mind will create them.
4. Once the idea is set, then let your mind think of the idea. What would you want to communicate to your audience? You might find more doing this then you think.
5. Sit down and beginning writing a draft. Just info dump your document until that one is just filled with rough drafts of different pieces of your ideas.
6. Mend them, brightly, brightly with beauty.
7. Once you do this, review your mending. Does it make sense? Did you grammar? Did you even or did you odd?
8. There you have it, you now have a rough draft! Rinse and repeat until you see your piece as fit for the job!
9. Post.
10. Profit $$$$.
3647032 Sounds like a plan. Thank you for the advice!
3646743
I can't help you here as my inspiration comes out of thin air half the time.
Here I can help you. What I do s let the idea roil around in my head for a while, trying different scenarios, plugging up plot holes, all in all, just refining it from its rough form to something I can be happy with before ever writing a single word on paper. This takes a couple weeks for me, simply because I have too many stories going on at once to be throwing another on the fire.
I would ask them for advice on how they think you should fix it. You don't necessarily need to follow their advice, but it would be a good starting off point at least.
No such thing as a stupid question. Also it's good that you're seeking ways to improve and advance your writing, as I've seen writers who refuse to do that at all.
3647137 Thank you for the advice.
3646743
Usually they appear on their own. Reading helps, also watching movies, etc. Most of your raw material will come from stuff you have read or seen. Sometimes it's as easy as reading a story and thinking: That's not how I would have done it at all! Other times you like a concept enough to remember it, and then (often much later) you think of a radically different way of doing it that you really want to explore.
The important thing that you don't try to force it. Frustration is the bane of inspiration.
I'm pretty sure I've told you this before, but I don't really put much conscious effort into my ideas. I prefer to just let them simmer in my subconscious until they're ready. Usually they merge with other ideas and become something greater. Some of the best stories I've ever thought of were put together from completely different ideas I'm had in my head for ages, until something finally sparked.
You'll know it when it happens - typically from the overwhelming urge to write you will feel at that moment.
Never used pre-readers. I suppose you should find a very good story that excels at whatever it is you need to work on, and really try to figure out how the author did it.
Define "work out."
3647357 Thanks for the advice.
What I mean by a story not working out is that I usually succumb to a certain mistake regarding the prose, storyline, characters, etc. I was probably being too hard on myself again. Sorry about that, I was feeling a little down when I posted this thread, but I'm feeling better now and I'll keep on trying to improve as a writer and a person. It won't be easy, but I know that it can be done.
3646743
Honestly, I think the outlining thing is a little overrated. This is not to say that planning stuff out isn't worthwhile. But I prefer to do it in a less soul-crushingly boring way.
Do interviews with your characters exploring the background of the plot. Do write ups of plot elements.
I think it's really more important that you figure out what all the moving parts are and how they're moving than to have everything planned out ahead of time.
3647462 That sounds like a more fun way of doing things. I'm surprised I never thought of doing that before. Thank you very much!
3647369
Probably. You'd be better off being a huge narcissist, like me.
Just be patient, don't rush it. It takes time. You won't suddenly become a noticeably better writer, like gaining a level in a video game. There's no magic line to cross. You grow a little more experienced and a little more skilled for every story you write. You probably won't even notice it.
3647539 That makes a lot of sense. Writing really does take time to get better at, and I may not notice my improved skills at times. Thank you for replying.
3647542 Typically, I get a rough idea of what I want to do, which scenes I want to write and wing if from there. Usually, a simple scene turns out to be much more because the characters and their interactions grow from original plans. The key is to be adaptable, if you don't change, how can you expect your writing to improve?
I've noticed a drastic difference from the day I published The Rise of Order to what I am writing now. Like Fervidor said, just continue to write and you will see your skill improve.
3647548 I'm trying to be as adaptable as possible when it comes to writing. Thanks for the advice.
3646743 Write down the problems of your story that you know of. After that, just obsess over them while you're doing other stuff. That's how I do it, at least. Not all problems can be resolved, though.
3647624 Yeah, I try to focus on what I need to work on one step at a time for my stories, but it sure isn't easy. Thanks for the advice.
3646765 The outline is a structural process that develops differently from person to person. An example on how you do an outline may be helpful feedback.
3647032
Always. Always. Always. Write out the idea. Even if you never use it. Write it down so that you can look at it. So you can keep it in mind when asking yourself other questions. So you can clearly articulate a goal.
So you don't forget your story's purpose is to convey that idea.
Additionally, regarding your process, I think there's a fundamental step that could be addressed before the sample questions. That step is "what general topic do I want to address" before "how do I want to address it".
3647462 You have described an outline while saying you don't believe in outlines. Is funny. I laugh.
Generally speaking, however, a story is a scripted set of events, and there is no shame in creating that script for yourself. There are more than enough stories out there that either have failed, or didn't succeed like they could have, because the author was afraid of feeling or seeming "canned" when writing. Alternatively, there are stories that were a wild success that could have been even better if they were better organized.
If an author is caught saying that creating an outline is too much work then it means they're too lazy to be writing a story. There are a lot of ways to create an outline, and almost none of them are "soul-crushing", even still if spirits are low, take a break and do something else for a while.
3647548 This seems to be the common sentiment of people with a fair bit more writing experience than what manaphy has indicated s/he feels s/he has. I'm not saying its wrong, just doesn't feel like the constructive criticism that the OP is looking for. There are people for whom a great deal of organization stifles creativity, and they work better without it. There are also people for whom this is not true, and there are people whom can identify whether an author should or should not have tried this approach with their story.
The general idea behind organizing as much as you can in advance is that the actual writing takes time. Time enough for the ideas a person originally had (when they started) to be lost in. Preorganization also helps structure the story as I've indicated above.
3646743
Alright now I'll share with you my method, it may not work for you, but you have nothing to lose by giving it a try.
Let's start with the gods' gift to greek kind: Modus Ponens.
The idea is very simple one. Some things naturally (and logically) follow other things. For the purpose of this discussion that's all I want to focus on about M.P. As I've said above, the first question I ask myself when writing, is what is the core subject I want to tackle. This core subject, be it Domestication, or Identity, or what have you is almost always a single word when it pops into my head. When I have an idea of the subject it naturally follows that I need to ask myself how that subject is regarded by, or fits into, the MLP universe if I'm writing for that universe.
Continuing the DotFR reference: Domestication is "a form of Parenting".
This is because in the MLP world there are plenty of strange and sentient creatures that could raise a pony, or they could even raise themselves in the wild, and that's totally cool by MLP standards. If I take such a child out of that environment, and push a pony family on them, what happens?
They fight back of course, because they're wild and "crazy" (Modus Ponens). In what manner would they fight back? Depends on the skills they have available. Et Cetera. *Crazy by the standards of society, for not valuing society's standards and ideals, because they weren't raised with them.
The next question I asked myself is "What setting would I like my story to take place in?" and "Who will it involve?" The answer to that question happens to be another question: "Who is appropriate?" Don't be afraid to answer a question with another question, because you will eventually run out of questions, and then have a complete list of answers back to your original question. This can be kind of disorienting when you do it the first time to see 20 answers just show up seemingly out of nowhere.
For me, and DotFR, bad things happening are pretty much the staple of the story, so it was natural to put it during the 1,000 years pre-twilight era, where bad things were happening world wide. Who could I get away with forcing as a parent, and have bad things happen to? Sombra. Needs a mom: OC Crystal Pony. But Sombra's a villain? Let's take him down a peg to where he's not the villain yet, and as the story progresses he becomes the villain. How does he become the villain? Does raising this child play any part of that? Yes. What part? How much? Et Cetera.
After writing out all these short answers I expanded upon them in the actual story. The process is much easier when you know roughly the idea that you want each chapter convey, and how those ideas add up to the one major idea you want the story to convey. Generally those ideas become apparent when your looking at your list of questions and answers that you have set up for yourself.
At the end of the process the first "one word idea" that you started with usually indicates the theme of the whole story. As I indicated before, the purpose of the story is to convey that idea, and every question you ask yourself about that idea or another question you've asked yourself about it, works to establish and maintain the conveyance of that one idea.
3647779 Perhaps so. I had moved on from the opening post mainly because plenty of other users have pretty much stated what I would have said about the opening questions. However, I expanded up them by, what I believe is, a helpful suggestion of what to do once an idea is formed. There is no one, true way of doing things, especially in writing. Like any art, it has a style, and that style is different for every author. The best we can do is offer what advice we can to those who ask for it. It is their choice if they wish to pursue it or not.
Lets face it, if we all wrote the exact same way, the exact same time, every time, all the time. What would be creative about writing?
3646743
This is a lot to tackle at one go, but I'll serious up for a moment and help you out as best I can in one sitting.
Be observant in your personal life and when you're watching MLP. A lot of stories fail because the writers have no idea what the hell they're talking about. Look at your own life and the things you see around you. A lot of times, there is a story to be told in what is happening or at least there are specific events that could become elements in a story.
When you have an idea, write it down immediately. You'll forget it if you don't, or at best there will be details that are lost. Don't worry about punctuation, grammar, or anything. Just get as much of it down as you can and work on making it a real story later.
If you're not sure of how to fix something your pre-reader has suggested, talk to them about it. It doesn't damage your artistic credibility when you get advice from someone about possible options. You'd be surprised how many sudden bursts of inspiration come out when your mind is jogged a bit by conversation.
3647816
I'm not criticizing your style, though of your post, this is all that you have indicated of your style. Everything else of that post is a product of your experience (as a consequence of "winging"). That's what the words like "usually x happens" are, qualifiers of your experience, and we've established that you and Manaphy have different levels of experience to draw upon.
So the answer "I improvise based on my experience." is an answer that more than one person have already given (3646906 said it better)* and such an answer doesn't seem constructive as the results the OP is experiencing with his/her existing level of experience will not change with the advise to improvise. Therefore: not constructive.
Then the answer must obviously becomes: "Get more experience" which is something that other people (3647539) have also said. That, and the OP has already responded to both types of feedback, meaning that it is not additive, and nothing new is contributed. Therefore: not expansive.
*(Just Write covers both the improvising based on experience, and getting more experience.)
So for me, as a responder the question becomes: "Are you critically reading what others have written?" which is also good advice for writing a story, just as it would be for writing a forum post. (And I was quite certain someone already suggested this too.)
To answer your question of me:
For me, the art is in how the questions are answered, as well as knowing what questions get asked. Just because I follow the same procedure, time after time, does not mean there is no room for improvisation.
I consider it the equivalent of saying that, as a painter, "I defiantly want to work with oil paints, and canvas." Even though I don't switch to aerosol and walls for my second painting, doesn't mean that the second painting wasn't an exercise in the "creative" process.
3647779
Sure, but writing it down makes you define its purpose and blocks out all the other doors of creativity you could have tapped into but didn't because you defined the story's purpose too early in the process.
3647851 I advise you to read the remainder of my stupidly in-depth response: wherein I explain how this sentiment is a false assumption. If I wasn't going to bother to explain it, then I wouldn't have brought it up in the first place.
3647846
I just might quote this. That is actually a darn good answer.
3647865 Thanks. I was trying in my initial posts to describe a process by which creativity can be exercised, I suppose I did forget to mention that it is still a creative process. That the outline is just a device for creating the "art".
That the questions I asked myself made the difference in exploring domestication as "a little girl growing up in the crystal empire during war time" (DotFR) rather than "A woman in a basement full of whips and chains" (Fifty Shades of Grey).
3647854
What I see from this portion which discusses my counter, isn't exactly my counter. You didn't even organize your own claim as the 2nd sentence in italics isn't relevant to the first sentence in this quote. Identifying a purpose is a whole separate venue from a readers' perspective, especially when the readers are unable to identify the purpose themselves until more information is provided through the story. Organization can try and prevent that, but yet again, as you proved for me, stifles creativity and shuts all doors as I said before. You can define your purpose better if you let it float around in your mind. Once it has been clearly defined, then you may write it down and only in fragments, because then you have room for even more ideas to form. Outlines constrict that because outlining is done when your idea has been clearly formed and all creative points have been accessed and reviewed in the writer's mind. That is the flaw of your post: identifying when the creative flow should be ended.
That's why constructing concepts is what I do. I write them second. I try to reach the out of bounds region, because there is so much more to work with than the original story lines that people still use today. People are looking for more fresh concepts, without jumping too far into a long novella that they can't seem to grasp. Short ideas with loads of creativity is a way better thing to have than a long idea with limited creativity.
Word of advice: don't self-promote in threads to try and prove a point. That never works.
3647870 I can't discern what you are trying to convey in your response. It reads like a rant and there is no organization or structure to it. Further, there is no reference to why the sections of the quote are in bold (so I had to just take a guess). As creative as you'd like to think you are. The chief purpose of storytelling is to communicate to an audience. If you can't do that, then why bother? I mean seriously. The purpose of your forum post here is to communicate that you disagree with me and why. I can't understand the why because the way it is structured and phrased. The fact that I had to guess, means you executed your "story" (your response to my post), in a terrible manner. Which further reinforces my argument for an outline.
Here are the responses to what I'm guessing your trying to say:
Is this the reference to the bolded segments? Because I agree, that it's not a counter, because I am specifically talking about two different things. One being value, and the other being time. They're not even categorically similar.
Italics, by their nature in writing, are designed to draw emphasis to a point within a sentence. It is the written equivalent of verbally stressing a word's enunciation to draw a listener's ear to the emphasized word. The way paragraphs work is that they are the separation of self-contained ideas.
Note that the above explanatory paragraph isn't separated because I was discussing the rules of writing in general (a consistent idea), whereas this one is because I'm explaining the explanation (different ideas).
As indicated, the purpose of storytelling is to communicate (with/to an audience), the purpose of communicating is to convey ideas. By Modus Ponens: the purpose of a story is to convey an idea. (A->B)^(B->C) so (A->C)
We call this the wandering story. Readers, especially critics, editors, and proofers hate—I mean really hate hate hate—this "method" of storytelling. That is because the reader is inundated with shit that they are told to keep track of, that is later revealed as irrelevant details, this wastes the effort of a reader, as well as the time required to get through these irrelevant details. This is the first thing we learn in high-school English, if we haven't already picked it up by reading poorly executed stories.
This is an if and only if statement, relying on the contingency that I have proven something. The evidence that you are citing is actually this evidence, as this evidence reinforces the evidence you're citing, and actually disproves your claim. (Shall I explain Modus Ponens for a third time? P implies Q, IF P is true, THEN Q is true.) You may note that my process, of asking "what the fuck is he trying to say?" has lead me to answer those questions freely and without any stifling of creativity.
Quod Erat Demonstrandum: Outlines do not restrict creativity, but rather increase direction, and communicatory skill.
I never said that this is not something I do before I begin writing. Rather, I focused on what occurs after this step.
The more I reread this, the more it starts to sound like an outline to me. An outline is not intended to be a comprehensive story. Rather a list of reminders, as well as prompts to help move the story in the direction of the writer's choosing.
This is, in fact, the purpose of an outline. To provide direction and a path by which an idea is explored and reduce derivation from that idea (by incorporating completely unrelated ideas). Derivations that indicate the time of the reader is being wasted.
Not only did I explain that is not what an outline is, but I will also now quote yet another example of how this is not the case:
There is no question that these two stories have a similar theme, in the loosest of general senses, as it is defined by the starting step: "I want to write about domestication." (BDSM is a form of domestication, which is why I specified parenting as domestication This specification changed the entire work's outcome.) What you are implying is that I would have had no choice but to write a spoof of a bad porn book because I chose to write about domestication.
At no point was anything said that this could even be inferred from.
Irrelevant justification. Not evidence to your argument.
Wild speculation and a gross generalization of all people.
The words "loads" "creativity" "better" "long" and "limited" are all subjective. They define this as a wholly arbitrary evaluation based on personal tastes.
The providing of an example is a tool for conveyance of an idea. The providing of a citation is a general principle of authorial intent. It tells the reader you didn't just make it the fuck up, and aren't trying to steal credit for other people's work/ideas.
The fact that a reader may like what I'm talking about here, and that it may be relatable enough to take a chance in reading the full text is an added bonus. But I'll cite anyone's work if it contains an appropriate example.
3647913
To quote RainbowBob's method of telling someone what they should be looking at...
Did you even read what I said?
Did you even read what I said?
Did you even read what I said?
Did you even read what I said?
Look at the sentence after that. That is what I'm referencing to.
The second bold is important because I actually agreed with that segment. That takes time, but the idea-making process should also be shown as important as the actual writing segment.
First of all, you could've dodged the swear. Swearing makes your point less intelligent and more of just a rant than my post, which my post is not a rant. It is a rebuttal to your post.
Secondly, giving the reader this actually allows them to understand your story more so than before, and allows them to be able to give them a new perspective on your story. Critics can get their pants in a bunch for it, but in reality, you're teaching them something indirectly from a story. That is beneficial in my eyes.
No. If and only if statements have the "if and only if" in the statement. Read again.
Yet you did not say you disagreed. +1
Plus I could say the same to you, saying that all writers have to write down their ideas. In the end, this debate is not going to be won. Two different writing perspectives from two very different authors. You should see this.
Hmm... That is what I gathered from your post. Unless you didn't imply what you meant?
You pointing out that means that it does have value. Plus, I could say you self-promoting yourself is irrelevant to your point. Don't pull that card on me.
Yeah, an example that ISN'T your own. I'd like to actually forward you over to a few stories written by authors who don't swear in their post like an immature twit. You should learn to be more respectful, otherwise respect isn't given. Plus, every story (from the bold statement) borrows from each other. So your idea may not be original as it may seem. Lastly, using your own work makes you look pretentious and full of yourself. That is the number one unlisted rule in this group and people look down upon these types of authors. Do not do this again.
I'm going to abandon this little discussion because it's going to inevitably lead to no where and be just spam.
3647930
RainbowBob's opinion. I acknowledge that your method is your opinion, as much as my method as my opinion. We've been asked for our opinions, so I've provided mine, as you have yours. Only when you have told others their opinion is wrong (that it is never appropriate and that it never works) did I take issue with it.
Quoting the two statements together creates an implication that they are related. This is why we, even you, are quoting things separately (now).
Irrelevant opinion. Further "less" and "more" are subjective.
The authorial intent of the part of the story you are referencing is not that, but rather, that the author just felt like writing that portion and shoehorned it into the over all plot. Because this part of the story is not relevant to the rest of it, on account of being conceived outside of that purpose, it is simple filler. Nothing more.
Translation:
If the presented evidence by you (me) holds then organization stifles creativity and shuts the doors.
IF P THEN Q AND R
Q and R if, and only if, P.
Can indicates the first part is optional, and not relevant to the second part.
I am expressly indicating that the "value" that you have assigned it is noncommunicable. There is no value inherent to the statement, and that a rationalization is by definition the act of ignoring evidence.
In modern (western) English: Twit is a derivation of twat, which is a derivation of a vagina. Q.E.D. obscene.
Hypocrisy. By hypothesis. By calling someone out for being pretentious you have elevated yourself not only to their level, but above them, as to indicate their faults (that you are implying to don't possess). Faults that don't live up to your personally codified values. Values that, you are forcing upon others, and they may not personally share.
Values that you are indicating do not coincide with the very act of doing so.
I really don't give a fuck how you see me, or if you choose to be insulted by something I've said. I give a fuck if you're constantly providing bad information based on faulty assumptions that have no logical explanation whatsoever. You don't have the right to get butt-hurt when someone corrects you if you're intentionally fucking with people. That (the intentional fucking with people) is by definition trolling.
A person came to us for help, by responding to that call it is our moral duty to do so to the best of our abilities. That is my personal value. One you don't appear to share.
3647946
Nice big text, nice colorful text; to bad you don't have the right to call me butt-hurt when you're the one butt-hurt. I'm taking this situation calmly, I don't know what you're ranting about.
I could say the same to you, because neither of us in the end didn't give sources to our arguments. Henceforth, this debacle is a null void.
Plus, I don't "fuck" with people like you, because I don't like people like you.
Now I abandon thread.
3647980 Couldn't help but notice you had literally nothing to say about all of the logical explanation I provided that justified my position. Instead, choosing to focus on nothing but being smugly superior at me, and making the assumption that profanity means anger. They are what you might call: Red Herrings. That is to say that the personal confessions had nothing to do with debating you.
3647981 Okay, but if you're going to say logical and then come around and say anger fuels profanity, then your logic is null void. I'm done talking to you, you don't make sense.
3647986
Thought you were out? As for sense: Structured Logic is sometimes hard to grasp when you've never used it before. I'm a mathematician (and philosopher) it's what I do.
3647992
I had to reply to your ignorance.
3647994
I forgot to mention that in organized logic, you can only arrive at a contradiction if one of your assumptions is false.
Your statement is an IF THEN statement (IF P THEN Q).
However P Implies Q does not mean that Q implies P. (P->Q) =/= (Q->P) see how the arrow only goes one direction?
For example:
The assumption that anger fuels profanity, does not mean that profanity indicates the presence of anger. We say fuck all the time, for many reasons, and in many different inflections. It's a super versatile word.
3647999 This deserves the "nobody cares".mov award. Tell me something that is actually something I should care about, not something I don't care about then explain the logistics behind said nothingness.
3648007 Being rationally consistent is a thing that people expect from other people. It's how a society functions.
When people say what is important to them; the logistics is the why you should care. Evidence.
It's how every-day communication works, we start at the claim (usually given with a qualifier quite like this one) and work backward where appropriate. Present claim (conclusion), supply evidence as necessary, and a warrant if the evidence does not seem to match. Your brain does this. It follows this pattern exactly as society has programmed it into your head.
Even if you don't do it consciously or understand why you do it.
The fact that you are asking why you should care means that you don't accept the backing of my warrant, that connects my evidence to my conclusion. That's why I work with a lot of examples, to give the opportunity to rephrase something, while prefacing that it is optional content for those who don't understand a point I've made, so that the people who do will realize going in that they won't really gain anything from it.
Example:
If I say that Rainbow Dash is best pony (not that I am), and you agree, then I don't need evidence to convince you that she is. I've simply stated a conclusion (made a claim) and we've come to the same conclusion. But I say something you disagree with (and I've said loads of them) then I must provide evidence if I expect you to understand the conclusion (the claim). The logistics is that backing of the warrant.
Fun Fact:
The reason that my outline model recommendation is what it is, is because I followed this model to create it. The one we're programmed to use every moment of every day. I'm putting that practice into the abstract to create the story, because the story is a form of communication.
You're just being abusive troll-bait now. I've been nothing but informative, and the OP seems to have gotten several suggestions on how they can improve their writing. Even while clinging to your stubbornness, I've tried to help you too, by offering alternative perspective as you've previously indicated that was once something that was important to you.
This is so far off topic that I'm recommending the thread be locked.
The info here more than covers a wide verity of writing styles.
3648007
Whoa.... whoa...whoa, whoa, whoa whoa.....
That was actually pretty funny, but whoa.
3648017 I go hard in the paint.
3646743
I like to take things pretty simple. I get ideas from dreams and concepts, then I forge it to the fundamentals of MLP;FIM Friendship, chaos, and fun. Though, I usually go for the dark and tragic, I have lots of ideas in the happy slice of life.
My actual style is more in the narrative, as in I like to describe what is going on more than actual conversation. Simply because I suck at dialogue, and I like to describe how things happen.
Now when I get stuck, I usually delete the whole scene and start from scratch. Things get better after that... usually.
That's how I do things. Nice and simple.