Today and the Future · 3:19pm Dec 18th, 2017
This post features no spoilers of any kind.
Everyone’s talking about S8 and movies and who knows what else. Goodness, I’ve not even watched S7 yet!
And you know what, dear reader? I don’t think I ever will.
This is not a protest against anything, I’m just observing a fact. At this moment I do not know that I will ever engage with the newer content.
I won’t go on too long a rant about what I potentially may-or-may-not dislike about the new stuff, partially because it’s not a very interesting discussion to me, partially because I feel like I’ve studded every blog post I’ve ever made with bits of that.
Not studded. Sprinkled. Far funnier word. I’ve sprinkled my blog posts with my opinions. You can go back and read those if you wish, but the tl;dr is that if you like the recent seasons, I am happy for you, end of story.
Anyway. Instead of ragging on stuff by inference, I want to tell you why the first seasons are amazing, and I want to tell you what you can expect from me going forward. It will be a little bit of a retrospective, but I’ll skip the “how I found the show” bit and “what MLP has meant to me”. Ain’t nobody got time for that and I ain’t sharing.
We’re talking about the show, and about characters.
FiM’s S1 established a bunch of characters in twenty-six sets of twenty-something minutes. That’s not a lot of room for nuance, and though the characters were remarkable in a number of ways, it was not for managing to show a lot of complexity in the time given. Genuine, compassionate, varied, feminist, I’ll argue yes. Deep? Let’s be realistic here.
I only followed canon as far as S3 before I went on hiatus. Canon marched on, heedless of the fact that I stopped, and when I returned, I walked backwards. It’s telling that despite the fact that I’ve watched up to S6, my latest story, To Perytonia, comes with a huge “This is a Season Two story” notice.
Why? What does that actually mean?
First, you need to realise that I am, have always been, and will forever be a character focused writer. To me, a story’s external events are primarily interesting for the impact it has on the characters. If I write a story about ponies building a spaceship, that spaceship will also be a metaphor. When we go on an adventure, the adventure is supposed to be fun and all that, for sure, but it’s always accompanied by an internal journey of equal or greater magnitude.
Those analytical readers who happily read stories set in older canonicities have noticed that my characters “fit” the earlier seasons. That’s what you say if you’re kind-hearted: “This fits well with S1/2”. I imagine someone else might say “the characters are all wrong, wtf” if they were feeling less charitable, but so far no one has said that.
You see, the mane 6 have definitely changed. Someone said that they have had their “rough edges filed off”. This means that Fluttershy is not quite so meek and Rainbow Dash is less abrasive. That sort of stuff. Even if Rarity and Applejack in particular seem to need to learn the same lesson five times over without it ever sticking, people generally say that their crudest parts are softened.
People are right. That’s absolutely what has happened, and stories that are based on the early seasons will therefore stand out, differing on this point.
That’s the problem.
As more episodes are added, the blank spots on the map are filled in. Anyone who has ever considered doing derivative/fan material understands that while everything we learn creates new opportunities, the world also shrinks the more is added to it. Canon destroys possibilities for the effortless implementation of fanon, simply put. If there is an island to the west of Equestria, the literally endless possibilities beyond an island are removed.
That’s all on the world, though. I said I’m character-focused. What about the characters?
In every season since the first, the mane 6 have had more time and more space to live and breathe. Character development in episodic content is predictable, natural, and desirable. If characters have negative traits and flaws, we enjoy watching the characters overcome those problems. We all enjoy the what-ifs playing out. Did you ever wonder how Fluttershy might react if she were forced to reconcile her love for song with her stage fright? Well, there’s an answer!
Good? You’d think so!
Don’t get me wrong here. Nuance is good. Stereotypes and flat characters are terrible, but there is a difference between a stereotype and a fresh composite of tropes, despite how much people think the latter word is a derogative. It isn’t. More importantly, there is to me a huge difference between a character with rough edges (a character with character, if you will) and a character whose flaws are all overcome. Ongoing series do not tend to add flaws. It’s very hard to file a new edge into existence.
(Sidenote: I am not saying that “the characters are bad now” or whatever. I’m speaking of a process. Put your pitchfork away.)
In the early seasons, creation was wild. There is a certain joy in arguing that the spark of some trait or tendency has always been there, in nurturing it in story (or art, or music, or interpretative dance) form. That is the creation of fan material, separate in my mind from simply declaring something into existence on the simple authority of headcanon. Anyone can say “I think Rarity overindulges”, or “Pinkie Pie is actually really smart, she just tends to say the third thing she’s thinking instead of the first thing like other people”. If you are trying to create something showing that, however, you need to convince others, too. In this sense, fanfic is creative because it’s interpretative.
To me, the perfect storm for these acts of creation—the perfect balance between material and space—was somewhere between S1 and S2.
Maybe I come across as nostalgic. Nostalgia is certainly a factor, because no sane individual can spin off quite so far on so little. Within and Without in all its aged glory is the best example of that. I don’t actually yearn for the time when all this happened, though.
I was never very active socially. Even in the heyday I at most hung out in an IRC room or two with other artists and writers. Sure, I had a wider circle of contacts than I do now, but what I truly “miss” is the creative chaos that happened back then, a mess of ideas floating between all the writers I knew, all brought on by the sheer number of unknowns combined with beautifully crafted, rough-edged characters who still resisted stereotyping.
Here’s the good news: it’s not actually nostalgia!
Nostalgia means loss. With To Perytonia, I’ve proven that my brain can just… re-adjust and write as though we’re all the way back in... what year was it? 1438? Well, it’s always 1438, and that’s great. To answer my own question of what you can expect from me: More of the same, friend. I’ve found my space, thanks, and I apparently have the superpower of highly specialised compartmentalisation.
The bad news is that it’s 1438. To Perytonia’s reception proves that while I’m not exactly alone here, I’m more alone. Back in 1438 (fine, it was 2012), I and my writer friends complained about all these “stupid crack fics stealing our views” while we shook our hooves at the sky. Now there are other tendencies to shake my hoof at and pretend they’re secretly to blame.
In that sense, nothing has really changed, but I’ll admit the other two stories I wanted to write are currently on hold due to a lack of motivation. But I know I “can” write them, and that is a victory, even if I am unlikely to do so anytime soon.
For those wondering what this means for To Perytonia specifically, I have some notes, spoiler free! This applies whether you are waiting for it to finish before you read or if you’re reading along.
As I keep saying, To Perytonia is fully written and will continue to update until its completion. Furthermore, the story does not need or even want for a sequel. If it sounds like I’m teasing a sequel, well, that’s simply not the case. To Perytonia is a complete story, but I wanted to write two… let’s call them companion stories. I would say spin-off, but that’s not quite correct either. I had an ambitious, non-linear project in mind that I don’t know has ever been done before, but I don’t know what happens with that, if anything. Right now, I’m very thankful I decided early on that I was going to write a complete story first and foremost.
Well, that’s that. I’d rather not start a discussion on “old vs new” here, I just wanted to give a definitive comment on the whole canonicity thing, mostly for my own sake. I like ponies with rough edges, and I hope those of you who keep up to date on canon have fun with all the stuff that’s happening.
I’ll see you when I see you, but before I go: you may have noticed I’ve gone kind of silent.
Well, just for you, dear impassioned individual who read through that brick of text: I’m not necessarily on hiatus again, but I’m probably gonna be out for a while longer.
I’m sorry for not responding to PM’s. Logging in to update new chapters feels... punishing these days. If you need to reach me, try my mail address, which you’ll find at the end of every fic I’ve written.
Thank you for reading, though. Knowing that there are people who are curious or interested enough to read these rants is… nice.
Heck if I know what I write next, pony or something original, but... it’s nice.
"Non-linear"
THIS IS RELEVANT TO MY INTERESTS, please tell us more? :)
I was gone from the fandom for some 2 years, early season 5 to almost start of season 7, decided to just slog though the episode i got stuck in and went on from there.
Like everyone i saw says, its not what it used to be, but that doesnt mean its terrible. One i saw even said it best probably, its more likely that the nostalgia of the "old" days and the difference between those and the post-Faust series makes it seem worse then it even is.
The new generation could have potential, especially if they do plan to (also) aim for a older audience (teenagers of both genders i imagine rather then just little girls).
I am selfishly glad that To Perytonia is already completed because I love it.
Rainbow without her asshole tendencies is just another tomboy. The only way I can actually do the eqg crap I keep tossing at you in emails is because I project s1/2 onto all of them and just start with that as their characterization.
Hell that might be why I like them so much. They still have rough edges because nothing has been done to file them smooth.
Anyway. I do wish you could embrace twilight getting preened, if only because I can't stop liking that as a thing. But as long as my random gibberish over wings and mirrors and shit doesn't hurt, I guess it's not really a problem, right?
And let me know if it does. I don't want to be Rainbow to your flutters here.
I sympathize. The closest I have approached modern canon was a season 4 finale fic in which I decided there was no way Discord would be quite that stupid. Fastest fic I ever wrote.
Most of my stories take place in season 2 canon, and one series I wrote just past twilicorn. I was pretty okay with her alicornication, and was only disappointed that her other friends didn't follow suit.
I've learned, to my personal humor, to feel anticipation and dread when I hear a new season is coming out. The new season's keep the show alive, but every time I worry on what will be made canon, what will be permanent, and whether or not the writer's actually fit new things into the world correctly *many don't*. I was quite happy to think of Fluttershy's brother as not existing in EQG's because the less you see, the more you can make up without having to say 'i'm going off canon'.
I do agree that I preferred when the mane six had more personality issues. Fluttershy I can't understand much anymore as she is not supposed to be shy now, but not agressive, sooo just a regular person? Yeah...that's...that's a fun character....it's why I *personal opinion* could never use Applejack as a character, she just didn't have much to her beyond family loyalty. Her stubborn nature was fairly fixed in season 1 I believe, so quirks for her are few.
I will watch the next season, if only for the sake of how much more Trixie is involved these days, and that they actually have been using her well, but I avoided the EQG shorts...two minutes of filler story? No thanks.
Good luck and enjoy the rest of the year!
Feeling this pretty hard right now. :B
To elaborate, it occurs to me that this is probably why I latch onto new characters a lot. Sunset Shimmer, Tempest Shadow, Moondancer, even (or especially) minor one-off characters like Plaid Stripes and Kettle Corn: they're nothing but rough edges, nothing but potential. And you probably don't have to worry about canon showing up to stomp all over your fics if you focus on them. But your best bet at recapturing that spark of all the creation at your fingertips is to channel it through characters who barely have any character, if at all.
Put your pitchfork away.)
LOLOL
Na. I went away from the fandom for a long while after the creative chaos of Season 2 died and am back because of folks like who write stories that have the level of character building thats hard to beat.
For me, I'll happily write stuff set just after Season 2/3 when writing general stories and after Twilight's ascention when writing Tuna and ignore the newer stuff even though I have watched all of season 7. I think you nailed the why on that.
I genuinely don't understand why people want the show to stay vague, or however you want to phrase 'please stop making new canon'. Yes, sure, saying there's an island to the west of Equestria does eliminate the possibility of literally everything except that specific island, but now you have an island to play on! Far more interesting, I think, to see a thousand authors explore different facets of life on that island instead of an utterly disorganized library of five hundred different continents.
4752085 It's hard to give a real explanation without going into more detail than I wish, but if you so much as glance at the cover art of To Perytonia, you can easily guess what the second story might be or have been. The third one is a little more complicated, but is also an incarnation of a story I've wanted to write for a very long time, a... comment on friendships' roles in lives.
4752109 I personally hope they do the opposite and focus on the original demographic, for unrelated reasons, but I hear you. It's complicated, and I really wasn't trying to start a debate.
4752113 And I am equally selfishly happy to hear this. If nothing else, believe me when I say that even if I start writing a story and then suffer some crisis of faith, I would still feel compelled to finish it. I will never leave a story incomplete.
4752130 I think I once wrote something about how I realised it was wrong to hold something against a fictive character. I don't know I'll ever be on board with it either, though.
I'll mail you.
4752135 Y'know, it's actually a huge relief to hear from popular authors who write older canon stuff. First time I've heard a bid for alicornination all around, but hey, I can see the point.
4752157 I think I'm agreeing with you if I say that I think selective acceptance and drawing boundaries doesn't have to be malicious. We can put up fence posts to preserve our sanity, too. I used to look down on AU, but even though I still won't read it—I can't step into someone else's head like that, I need some canon point in time as focus—I've... changed my stance on that and regret my snobbishness in hindsight.
I have a lot more I could say about AJ's character, but in the interest of time, I'll just nod my head here.
Merry holidays to you though.
4752160 I never considered that. I know that there was a time where I was disdainful towards those who ran away with the fan/background characters like Lyra and Octavia—despite the fact that I wrote one story using Octavia. Looking at it the way you describe it here though, that's a lot kinder, more beautiful.
I don't know that I can follow where you go, but I really appreciate the insight. Thank you, truly.
4752258 I still can't get over the ship name "Tuna", goodness. Can't we reach compromise on Lunalight?
But, yeah, I never thought I was truly alone in this. Still nice to hear that there are people out there who can write in the same space that I do without all the issues I have with it. You and those like you are my role models in that respect. I wish I could get to where you are. I write these blog posts declaring that I'm comfortable because I am not, and am trying to make myself okay by writing it.
4752310 Respectfully, and without wanting to start a quarrel here, I never said that I wanted the show to do one thing or another. I am perfectly alright with canon progressing, and I even described how everything that has happened is natural and desirable for an episodic narrative. And the example with the island, and your counterpoint, they all deal with physical space and setting, where I've declared for characters, who behave similarly but not identically.
You don't have to agree, of course, and I respect your stance, I just feel like I addressed exactly what you say.
4752324
I love you. Unfinished stories make me cry
I think I stopped waiting for new series after season 4. Not sure why though, it's just not the same. Buy hey, I have fimfic and a there are a lot of great authors here
And of course we are interested, why would you think otherwise
4752335
Was not my intention to start a quarrel, merely to bring up a counterpoint and hopefully get some interesting responses.
4752338 I want to state for the record that this is not a healthy impulse. Authors should never write out of guilt or due to neuroses, but yeah, that's where I stand, at least, phah.
And I dont know, the issue is, I don't have a lot of... ability to communicate, I guess, so I feel like a lot of what I'm saying is repetition. Hopefully I can post something about more concrete plans for the future when I have them. It's got to be a lot more fun to read about story plans and such instead of me musing about canons!
4752339 Hey, and I get that, I really do. I'm very sorry if I came across as defensive right out of the gate here. I kind of subtly tried to end the "debate" about more canon in the post, but it probably looks like I'm inviting general discussion whilst trying to deny debate, and that's very confusing, even to me.
Again I apologise. If others want to talk about this, feel free, I'm just done with the topic myself; happy holidays to you and yours!
You could argue that MLP isn't nuanced or vividly differentiated. But not deep? Yeah, I'm going to have to push back on that just a tad.
Here's how I see it: The very fact that MLP episodes have a 22 minute running time is exactly what makes the episodes deep. Or at least more deep than they are differentiated, and that's actually an achievement unto itself, because if you include enough detail and spend enough time on a story, of course it will end up with many threads of meaning, but to keep that meaning whilst trimming down the detail is difficult. And that process actually mirrors the way religious ideas evolve.
Or to put it another way, the interactions within the episodes have to be condensed down enough so that the most meaning possible is packed into the tiny amount of time that is a single episode. This leaves you with a story with fuzzy edges, but that's actually to the benefit of the viewer because it means that they can project their own peculiarities onto the story and the characters have a narrative that's still coherent. And feature this works for anything short of a fundamental disagreement with the ethos of the story.
You can think of it like an impressionistic painting. The fact the the brush stroked are broad leaves you with only the forest, and you are required to fill in the trees yourself. The creative process includes the viewer to some small extent, which engages them with the work.
Edit: I'll also add that the vagueness of the stories adds to the depth because it's never clear when producing art exactly what it is you're trying to get at. Sometimes the best thing to do is to just go with your gut, and hope that you're put together solidly enough as an individual to properly convey ideas which you currently don't consciously understand.
Edit2: I should have also mentioned that the depth I believe exists within MLP is exactly a result of the fact that it's a show intended for children. It hits on ideas that people have presupposed their whole lives and assume are self-evident but are actually a product of the stories we've been telling ourselves for thousands of years. It's not obvious, if you didn't grow up in a nation that grew out of the Judeo-Christian tradition, that an intense focus on the role of the individual is the proper frame of reference to take. But that's one of the things MLP implicitly presupposes through the stories it chooses to tell and the symbols it contains.
And some of these symbols are archetypal in nature, which is done so that the show will to appeal to kids, because we assume that children understand archetypal ideas even though we don't know that we assume this, and that adds another ten layers of depth that I can hardly begin to articulate.
It's non-trivial that the rulers of Equestria are the sun and the moon. Seriously, if you understand the mythological (and psychological) significance of those symbols, and what we associate them with unconsciously, then you will also realize that MLP is actually a highly mythological show. And mythology, being the product of the human unconscious and its web of symbols, acts as a mirror for us to examine our own perceptions.
So if I haven't made it clear, I disagree that MLP isn't very deep.
I'll simply say that I completely understand where you're coming from because I was starting to lose interest in the characters around season 5, but when they introduced Starlight Glimmer, it reignited my interest in the show. It was the first time that there was some good potential for character growth, since season 3, and it appears the writers are interested in developing several others new characters as well in the new seasons. So for me, season seven was probably on par with (if not better, depending on how things shake out) than season one and two. And I guess that's because it's kind of a new show now, and that's for the best.
4752396 Right. I wrote up a long reply, but I'm genuinely not trying to start anything here. Everything I'm writing comes across as wrong or condescending no matter how I phrase it, so I give up. Have a short version.
I think you misunderstand or misread me. I am simply arguing that the "depth" comes primarily from the interpretative act, not from the godlike genius of the show's creators placing seemingly-simple symbols and metaphors to serve as a vessel for investigating the distorted relationship between signifiers and the signified removed from familiar context or something.
MLP is a good show. I like MLP and I think it has plenty of merit, but I don't think it's unique because most of what you describe are necessary components to create anything with MLP's basic properties.
That's not a refusal or a rebuttal, however. If you find it inherently deep beyond the personally interpretative process, if you find it to be a version of what Barthes would call a "writerly" text (though in video form) and wish to go to bat for that, good on you! I'm happy for you, and have no desire to try to convince you that you are wrong, nor will I suggest that the depth you find is false.
I've written quite a lot of fan fiction myself up until this point, so clearly I find it worthwhile.
4752398 I'm very glad you felt that way. Glimmer didn't click with me at all, but I know quite a few people enjoy Glimmer and Glimmer + Trixie. That's really good for you, and I'm happy to hear it. I still don't think I'll watch S7, but I'm truly happy to hear that it was a good one.
4752326
Well, you see, about that... I kinda got my start writing a comedy in which all six grew wings overnight. I'm rather fond of the idea
But yes, so long as you give your readers a solid sense of what time you're in, just ignore everything that was revealed after. Don't think much of Fluttershy's parents? Make your own. To be frank, everything past season 4 I don't even consider canon so much as professional fanfiction written by people who were at best fans of seasons before and at worst there for a paycheck adapting tired ideas into ponies.
Man, I read this earlier and thought on it for a while after, and I realized that I agree with you. As someone who's tentatively thinking of
postingwriting mlp fic, I feel strangled by the limitations of what canon has already presented. I don't feel like I can put my own spin on the setting or create a conflict between the characters as they are in modern canon. They would just solve it all amicably and it would be over in a hundred words. It's hard to inject flaws into characters without it feeling like I'm just being lazy. I haven't caught up on S7, in fact I didn't even know about all the apparent leaks recently, the site blog notifications being the only clue I had. I've got no motivation to watch the episodes.That's why I like your old stuff, and plan on getting to Perytonia eventually. They all have such vibrant worlds and characters with real depth to them.
4752350
Completely understand you being a bit done with this line of discussion. Happy holidays to you and yours as well, mate.
4752539
I get the feeling that you felt I was trying to tear you down or something, but that wasn't at all my intention. I was simply trying to articulate that when people write they don't know exactly what they're putting into a story (if the story is any good), and when people read/watch they unknowingly extract that meaning which was unintentionally put in. And that that meaning, even though it's unintentional, is real.
I don't expect you to adopt this view based on the few words I've written here but I thought it was interesting and worthwhile nonetheless.
4752586 Well, that would explain it! I'm probably more charitable towards the recent season than you, I guess, but that might just be because I don't allow myself speculating.
4752614 I really didn't want to turn this into old vs new, but I guess it's inevitable that people can't really comment on one without mentioning the other. I don't want to say too much about the leaks and the newer seasons anyway.
what I will comment on is "injecting flaws" though, because that's something I didn't really expand upon. The issue is, you can't just, as you say, "inject" a flaw. It wouldn't make you lazy, it would be completely out of nowhere (the greatest "sin" of trying to write (non-AU!) fanfiction, to my eyes). Adding a new flaw, or a new character trait in general, requires work, and giving someone a new character trait can be the purpose of a story, you can't make the purpose of a story to be removing something you first add. That's what's frustrating.
All that said, I'm really talking theoretically here now. It's not that black and white. It's not like you can't use Fluttershy's timid nature in later stories. I just... yeah. I like rough edges, that's really all.
>>That's why I like your old stuff, and plan on getting to Perytonia eventually. They all have such vibrant worlds and characters with real depth to them.
Aw jeez. Thank you. I really hope you enjoy it when you get around to it. For all my words on how I'm character-focused, I genuinely think it's my best (and most original) setting yet.
4752684 You're probably right. I get defensive very quickly because my relationship with pony is problematic for me right now, and I apologise to you and anyone else here who wandered into the line of fire.
In perceiving it as an attack, or at the very least a disagreement before I even read it fully, I probably overcomplicated your point, too, Reading it like this? Sure, I get you. I think we might even agree in the end! I 100% believe that meaning we extract is valid whether or not it's intended, between the lines, or a loose associative process. I could write a damn long blog post about that, and probably will.
People say "death of the author" at the barest mention of these things like it explains every nuance of interpretative freedom/authorial authority release, but there's a lot more to it. I mentioned Barthes before, and if you haven't read Roland Barthes' S/Z (it's a short article), I highly recommend it. I even wrote an entire blog post about it that you might find relevant, written when I was over-tired and drunk on... air?
4752717
Drunk on sugar?
High on friendship?
Oh oh. "Riding the friendship express." Is so close to being the second part of an Ice Tea meme.
It was quite interesting to read your thoughts on why the newer seasons don't do as much for you as a writer. My source-material needs as a fanfiction writer differ quite a bit, but I don't think anyone cares so I'll skip the specifics. I'm behind on To Peritonia, but I'm sure I'd like to read more S2 canon stories from you. Or any stories, for that matter. I can completely empathize with the lack of motivation brought on by the lukewarm reception, though.
So, uh... reading the paragraph above, I guess it's just a "Hi I'm reading this and thanks for the blog post!".
4753042
The whole motivation thing is why I can't post a story until I finish it anymore. If it's not done and I get less views than my speedfic compilation, I probably would just give up in dispair.
4753273
I can't speak from experience as I've never written anything beyond 8k words, but I think I understand.