why · 7:49am Feb 6th, 2012
i can't
i don't even
what
this is not bordering on elitism
in my opinion
because it is a machination of existence at this point
how
are so many stories
that are so popular
so
bad
i'm not saying this like i'm any authority on fiction
other than writing it
and reading a lot of it
and studying it
i know there is a barrier between amateur writing craft and the standards of published work
but
holy fuck
there are stories on this site
with less than 2,000 words
riddled with grammatical errors
switching tense every other sentence
hundreds of adverbs
no sense of narrative, characterization, plot, tone, storytelling orchestration
with more than 150 five star ratings
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE
i'd postulate it's because ppeople don't care about quality in their fan material consumption
but it's inverse in the art world
with the exception of gimmicks and outliers that pander to common sensibilities
is that the catch? that a titilating premise is worth more than any value in the craft of composition?
IF I WRITE A STORY THAT HAS PONY X AND PONY Y IN IT AND THEY FUCK
DOES THAT ABSOLVE ME OF ALL BURDEN FOR CREDIBILITY
i just can't even hafjaf;ljkawe;ljkad
this is self-pity, and angry unfounded rage at tons of hardworking up-and-coming authors blah blah blah
BUT SERIOUSLY
I CAN'T EVEN FATHOM HOW PEOPLE CAN DIGEST SO MUCH UNADULTERED TRIPE
there are writing mistakes in multi-thousand view stories that should have been bred out of people in middle school
THE WORLD OF CONTEMPORARY FICTION IS DYING IN THE HANDS OF THE FANFICTION COMMUNITY
AND YOU ARE ALL ABATING IT
REVEL IN YOUR SHAME AND WITNESS ME IN MY FURIOUS DEMISE AS THE FINAL ASHES OF THE WORLD DWINDLE AND DIE
-disclaimer; i am not a huge fucker but seriously i'm super mad you guys. like mega extra super duper mad.-
-maybe i am a huge fucker-
-i will try to compose this in a more coherent manner when my brain has stopped melting-
While I do agree that there are some... less than substantial stories up on the site, I disagree that a fiction can't be good if it doesn't have 10K+ (or whatever) words. Some of the greatest stories I've read have been told in under 1000.
But honestly, don't go by the star rating system. I gawk at some 4.5+ rated fictions at how badly they're constructed. Even the two that I've written are rated far higher than what they should be.
Well, the vast majority of fans of this kids' show being kids, or at least people with little or no writing or reading experience (by which I mean critiquing/analysis), a lot of this is probably due to not knowing any better.
Granted, this doesn't justify publishing something that reads like a first draft, or not putting effort into what you write, or (from the readers' side) rating a fic highly or avoiding pointing out mistakes owing to a desire to avoid hurting someone's feelings. In fact criticizing bad fics may be more necessary for this fandom than others, otherwise how would fledgling authors learn?
I'm not criticizing anything, though. I'm too lazy and shy.
Because
Bronies
I don't know why my rabid Twaifufag fantasies are so highly rated but that should be enough to tell stuff
I have to agree with you. I find myself skimming over most of the new stories and completely disregarding new stories. Though I can't speak from experience, I have a feeling I had a hand in creating this madness
. Either way hope people get better. Aw who am I kidding, people just get worse 
.
I know the feeling.
It's because this is the internet, and on the internet something terrible happens to the concept of ratings. There is no middle ground. The vast, VAST majority of internet ratings folk will give a story one of three ratings for silly reasons. Since half stars can happen here, slight up or down skew may occur.
1 star - HOLY BALLS THIS IS ONE OF THE WORST THINGS I HAVE EVER READ. / This ships a pair I disagree with.
4 star - My appreciation for this story is non-negative, but not that high. Somehow this merits the second highest rating.
5 star - This was a good story. If I rate it lower than maximum, I will probably die somehow.
You may find this same rating system is beginning to apply (or perhaps has already for some time) to video games in the real world, likely because gamers are largely internet-type people.
This is just between this comment thread here and me, but honestly I'm pretty sure I've got no right to my crown. Some writers here are AWFUL.
And everything they do will STILL get decently rated because there's one good joke or a popular shipping.
13136
Wow, this is a very well articulated statement that epitomizes pretty much everything I wanted to encapsulate.
Thanks for expressing that so concisely.
14506 13136 Unfortunately this also tends to be how I rate some fics.
But really I was semi-broken of that pattern when I read lunacy, and stories like ponies make war and Fo:E
And now I work harder making my on stuff better.
Says the person spamming caps lock and omitting capitalization.
I'm kidding. Jeez.
I do agree that there is a deplorable amount of hideous abuse of the English language on this site, but frankly, that's pretty common for fanfiction in general. Also, since for some reason reading's gone out of style, the literacy of the English-speaking population is decreasing by a shocking degree. I've seen stories that are so nonsensical it's almost funny.
In general, from my limited experience with fanfiction, I can safely estimate that 5% is legitimately good to excellent. 20% of it is okay, but not really anything to talk about. Form and grammar needs a lot of work. Then there's the remaining 75%, which is absolute crap written by illiterate fangirls/boys who just want to continue living the fantasy. They think reading is uncool and a waste of time, but somehow don't feel the same way toward writing.
Of course, there are the new writers out there that show definite potential, and simply need to practice form a little bit. Those can be cut a little slack, mainly because they're willing to improve themselves, and most of them do. Quite radically, in fact.
Yes, there are a shocking amount of bad writers out there, and an even more shocking frequency of people who can't differentiate good fiction from bad. To quote K from Men in Black: "The individual is smart and capable of making logical, though out decisions. People are stupid, easily frightened and leap to conclusions."
Many fan fiction works turn into authors' and readers' opportunities to fantasize - either through creation or consumption - about whatever "fetish" (for lack of a better word) they wish to satisfy at the time. Accompanying this is often a deep sense of hope that others share this "fetish", and thus a large number of people set out to either find works containing traces of what they're currently obsessed with or follow the impulse to create such a work, however poorly-written, themselves.
Unfortunately, a majority of those who do choose to write tend to have little to no experience, and as a result an overwhelming number of things published on this site are either simplistic shipping stories or very appalling crossovers that receive little to no proofing or editing beforehand.
Really, I shouldn't be talking; I'm not an excellent writer myself. In addition, I'm probably stating stuff you already know, but you know what? I just thought I'd post because it was nice seeing others have healthy standards and expectations of fellow writers here. FimFiction shouldn't be the go-to site to post rough drafts; this should be the place where proofed and edited works are put on display. I'd rather browse through a museum of refined art than tread through a dump in search of hidden treasures.
That's all I've got. Good luck with being Medic on Livestream, comrade.
"Seventy percent of all ratings before the new system were five stars." ~knighty
Yeah, tell me about it.
The stories I spend the most time on are the ones that get the least amount of attention, and seem to be rated the lowest. In the meantime, the "featured stories" box likely contains crap that some illiterate twelve year old dumped out during his recess hour, and it gets positive ratings all over the place.
I get the impression that the readers just don't want to see anything that steps out of their comfort area. They either want a straight rip from a MLP script, or they want the literary equivalent of a LOL cat. Anything else and it will be labeled as TLDR or "how could you treat MY waifu like that!?!1!".
A lot of writers have realized this, and if they don't care about the integrity of their stories, then they will stoop to that low leveled junk to get some measure of attention and popularity. Honestly, I've considered doing it myself, and I'm pretty sure many others have too (perhaps yourself even). Then we realize we aren't retarded, and that keeps us from doing it.
Sturgeon's Law: "Ninety percent of science fiction is crap. But then, ninety percent of everything is crap."
People are no longer taught to read, not in any meaningful sense of either verb. Because people are not taught to read, they cannot read easily and well. Because they cannot read easily and well, they do not enjoy reading. Because they do not enjoy reading, they avoid reading. Because they avoid reading, they never learn to differentiate good writing from bad writing.
And because this is the internet, most people vote in line with whatever ratings the shiny thing du jour already has.
Sturgeon's Law says that whatever the thing in question is, it's probably shit. Internet voting protocols say that only the first handful of votes count, in that they blaze the trail that the rest of the herd will follow. And the lack of basic literacy* says that the herd members are unequipped to judge quality for themselves, so they continue following the herd.
The secret to internet success in a nutshell? Control access to your MacGuffin to ensure that the first reviews/votes/etc. are favorable, then stand back and let the herd carry you to internet fame.
* Or technical knowledge, or scientific knowledge, or historical knowledge, or whatever form of knowledge is relevant to making even the most rudimentary judgement for themselves.
"A walk in the ocean of most souls would barely wet the feet." That's why.
Elitist drivel. At least some people are trying to write. Besides, what does it matter that they get the views? Love and tolerate my dear sir.
27747
By labelling my opinion elitist you're showing an inability to love and tolerate it.
You completely missed the point of everything I wrote. The difference between 'elitism' and 'bemoaning the standard of quality inundating almost every piece of popular fiction in the fandom' is pretty significant.
Also, get dunked.
27747
Because each minute a person is reading a bad fic is a minute they do not spend reading a good fic. That means that they're spending their time on something that they won't get as much out of as they would get out of a better alternative. The fact that this fandom does not call fics out on being bad, the fact that people will read any crap that is handed to them means that readers get a suboptimal experience out of their fanfiction time.
That niceness also means that authors do not get the feedback they need to improve their style. I got no bad feedback on my first fanfic, no criticism, nobody pointing out mistakes. It was a piece of crap, a vapid and pointless vehicle of shipping for shipping's sake. Some people enjoyed it, but I realized that it wasn't the sort of fic that I wanted to be putting out. With a lot of effort, I managed to pick out the things like immersion and well-handled pacing that made good fanfics good and incorporate them into my own writing through trial and error and a lot of practice. I blundered my way into competence, but only because I was unsatisfied with my work. The hugbox mentality of FIMFic does not cause authors to be unsatisfied with their writing, it causes authors to be unsatisfied with the ammount of attention their work receives because they want to hear more good things about what they've written. This leads to incompetents who refuse to better themselves shoving their fanfiction in the faces of people who deserve better.
The phenomenon of people who write without being avid readers is especially troubling. Those writers are a scourge upon the concept of literacy and should never publish anything; this fandom does not deserve to have their crap inflicted upon it.
Love and tolerance is all well and good, but sometimes people need tough love. Spare the rod and spoil the writer.
Abuse the rod, spoil the horse. EqD is a good example of this, in my opinion (and everyone is obviously entitled to disagree) they desire perfection so much that hardly anything interesting gets through. You can have grammatical perfection, and still have a shit story.
If your fanfiction is good enough, and intrigues the readers it will get the attention it deserves. Be happy that people take the time out of their day to look at your work. Complaining about others getting more than you got is childish.
I think you mean 'ABETTING', not 'ABATING'.
13136
Yup, you're right. 90% of people on the Internet either ABSOLUTELY hate KILL IT WITH FIRE something or become INSTANT fanboys EVERYONE WHO DOESN'T LIKE IT IS AN IDIOT.
I mean, look at most bronies and most mlp-haters.
30321
>if your fanfiction is good enough and intrigues the readers it will get the attention it deserves
>complaining about others blah blah blah
Yet again missing the entire point. The whole conceit of this stupid piece of blather I composed in several minutes (why it's gotten so much attention is beyond me) is that this ISN'T the case at all with popular stories. I've read a great many works that were fantastic and languished in mediocrity, while "My Little Dashie" continues to be the most popular story on the site, which frankly makes me wonder what kind of cruel existence we're living in.
I don't give a shit if people like my stories, but this whole problem is indicative of a trend in the realm of fanfiction that is upsetting on an inherent level - if people love the poorly written shipping stories of the world but pay no heed to the fanfiction attempting to seek loftier goals or be more concrete bastions of literary craft, then something is wrong with the way the fandom is absorbing fiction.
you hit the nail on the head
The majority of fanfiction readers want to read tame stories involving their favorite characters. An interesting concept takes precedence over delivery. There's little demand for literary fiction, but a lot of demand for pony romance.
If I judge your stories as literary fiction- they are amazingly well written, but push the boundaries of people's comfort zone. They don't want that
This. I love this.
I love and adore this site, but yet it still manages to frustrate the hell out of me. Premise is everything here. Quality is irrelevant in the face of a gratioutiously interesting hook. If your fic doesn't make your audience laugh, cry their eyes out, become horny (or all three), OR at least hint that it will fulfill these requirements, then it gets forgotten in a heartbeat.
I mean, look at the current featured bar. Where are the sweeping adventure epics? Where are the insightful character studies? Where are the sophisticated and intricately constructed comedies? They exist, so where are they?
It's a shame. Such a crying shame. There is so much good stuff that we produce as a fandom, but yet it often gets lost in all of the self-indulgent crap that gets churned out a dozen a day.
30321
So why not just have grammatical perfection?
That way, the quality of your story is all that needs judging. Now this is gonna sound odd coming from me and the shit I write, but honestly it's not that hard. There are rules. There are right and wrong answers.
Quit being lazy (this goes for me as well) and do things the RIGHT WAY. Then if and when you're rejected or told you suck, it's because of the quality of the story. Grammar shouldn't even be a factor, but not because it's not important. It shouldn't be a factor because we all already know exactly what we're supposed to do with it.
Yeah, it's frustrating trying to find anything decent to read here. I'm perpetually embarrassed by how well-rated my stuff has been when it's... Y'know, not all that, really. Sadly enough, blocking the "Romance" tag makes the sort-by-ratings instantly a hundred times more useful. The thing I find most depressing, though?
As crap as the majority of the stuff here is, the general level of quality is significantly, recognizably higher than the average level of fanwriting (or, hell, creative writing in general) on the greater Internet.
Sleep tight.
30825
13136
I agree completely.
Also I often disregard the featured bar and tend to try an lean towards looking for crossovers because they always seem to be more character driven and not just about sex with horses.
Heh, well this was a fun little rant to read.
I'm surprised that people are still considering this as abnormal, though. Welcome to the 21st century, boyz&girlz.
Honestly, long stories get the least views except if properly advertised because people expect instant gratification, especially when they read. As one previously said, reading isn't all that popular anymore. (It's a damn shame too)
On the other side of the coin, you get short one-shots that are quick, don't require much build-up and "hey, if it's bad, at least I only wasted ten minutes of my life, right? As opposed to a story that could be good but is 150K words long and would take me a while."
And of course, some aren't all that keen on seeing stories in which the perspective differs from their own.
Ignorance is bliss, as a great song (bearing the same title, incidentaly) once said.
Oh yeah, and the average internet browser is a P'tak, so no wonder good stuff or, goddess forbid, complicated stuff gets worse ranting than your average shitty clop/shipping fiction.
Beautifully stated. I rarely browse anything outside the featured box on FIMFiction, yet I'm routinely appalled by the pandering, masturbatory schlock that somehow attains fame within this fandom. I've recently mulled over the possibility of writing a scathingly satirical human in Equestria story of my own, calling out the entire genre as the pathetic wish fulfillment that it is. Yet I know crafting the prose to meet my personal standards of quality would be an arduous process, even for a story intended to be objectively terrible. (Plus, I'm not sure how many readers would get the satire.)
Fanfiction is a four letter word because of what the majority labels "quality." Good writers thrive on criticism and critique. Good writers have something to say. Self-inserts, insipid crossovers, clopfics, and the myriad other terrible subgenres I'm no doubt forgetting have nothing to say. Yet readers "love and tolerate" them, never once stepping up and demanding the quality many writers on this site are fully capable of providing. Until we can change the mindset of the average FIMFiction reader, this problem will persist, and may very well be endemic to fanfiction itself.
Huh. Just stumbled across this post and worked through the comments. Yes, I know I'm just a bit late to the party.
One reason that the voting process in general is and will always be skewed is pretty simple: quite a lot of people simply won't read, much less rate, anything outside their comfort zones, preselecting the readers of any given fic before even getting to the story itself. Everyone has tags, topics and sometimes even characters that they avoid - for instance, I don't read anything labeled with the "gore" warning, and a story premise has to be incredibly intriguing for me to look past a "Dark" tag. Combine that with the fact that you're obviously more likely to like something that matches your interests unless it's really incredibly bad, and anything not completely unreadable will be rated higher than it deserves.
That doesn't say anything about the bad fics that still manage to be rated unbelievably high, but then there's a different issue to consider: personal taste. Music critics have been expressing their astonishment at the success of Nickelback for years on end, with no perceivable impact on the band's record sales, and there are fanfics out there that feel the same way - only we'll never get everyone to agree on which fanfics form the "Nickelback" segment of FIMfiction. I don't understand how "My Little Dashie" or "Cheerilee's Garden" can have such high ratings (the latter in particular is a pet peeve of mine), and conversely I don't get the hate for some fics either.