On Timelines · 11:47am Nov 30th, 2015
"Times of Strife"
art by AssasinMonkey
They certainly didn't hold anything back in the Season 5 finale! 
This isn't the review of that finale promised in my previous blog. Rather, after having watched "The Cutie Re-Mark", I have the urge to talk about timelines, both as they apply to the show and to my stories, Fallout: Equestria and "Origin Story".
With "The Cutie Re-Mark", the writers of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic have embraced the idea of alternate timelines. This is great news for fanfic authors. As seasons pass and the show introduces changes and backstory, most fanfiction will eventually fall into "alternate universe" territory (if they weren't there to begin with). Now, the very notion of alternate universe tales can be considered canon-compliant to the world of Equestria.
Alternate timelines give us an incredible ability to explore the world of My Little Pony. One of the criticisms I hear a lot about the side story Project Horizons is that it deviates form (and occasionally completely rewrites) Fo:E canon. But there is nothing wrong with this. It merely makes Project Horizons an alternate timeline side story. And since none of the side stories are considered canon (not even "Origin Story"), they are all effectively "alternate universe" tales. This gives all Fo:E authors the freedom to play with and tweak the setting.
As fanfiction authors, we are all writing in alternate timelines.
art by MistyDash
Fallout: Equestria was written between April and December of 2011. The last episode referenced within the story was "May the Best Pet Win". But for a very long time, Fallout: Equestria remained canon-compliant with the series, or at least canon-adjacent. I personally consider the point where the story becomes irrevocably Alternate Universe to be "Read It and Weep" because that is when the animators changed Equestria's unique eight-hour clocks to human-standard twelve-hour clocks.
But even after that, nearly everything in the show synced well with Fallout: Equestria, or could be made to fit reasonably with a little massaging. And for everything that was a bit difficult to make sync, there was something that supported the story. (I recall one critic of Fallout: Equestria claiming war was impossible in Equestria because of windigos. "The Cutie Re-Mark" solidly drives a stake through the heart of that argument.) Sometimes, the show echoed ideas or themes in Fallout: Equestria so strongly that a lot of fans suspected the writers were making shout-outs to the story.
And of course there was this... 
The hard break came with Twilight's transformation into an alicorn. At that point, there was no arguing that Fallout: Equestria as-written couldn't evolve out of the show's canon timeline. But throughout the series, even after that event, the show has continued to give Fo:E side story writers a wealth of new toys to play with that could easily be integrated into the Equestrian Wasteland. I played with several of these myself in "Origin Story", including virtue chests.
art by OutlawedTofu
"The Cutie Re-Mark" gives us another morsel for thought as it presents us with new information on the speed of development and change that can occur in Equestria under times of stress. (Of course, I find this particularly interesting as it applies to the history that created the Equestrian Wasteland.) Let us take a look at the timeline that the show's content suggests.
The series premiere occurs during the "Summer Sun Celebration". If the show opens in the summer, then by Twilight's first winter in Ponyville ("Winter Wrap-Up"), she has lived in the town for about half a year. Winter-to-winter, approximately another year passes by between "Winter Wrap-Up" and "Hearth's Warming Eve".
The timeline in the show runs into a glitch with "Hearth's Warming Eve", but we can make a reasonable supposition that the episode is aired out of chronological order due to Hasbro syncing it's airing with the real-world Christmas season. If we accept that "Hearth's Warming Eve" occurred chronologically before "May the Best Pet Win", then that fixes the discrepancy with "Tanks for the Memories". According to the episode "Tanks for the Memories", Rainbow Dash is looking forward to her first winter with her pet Tank. Allowing the fix, this means that the events between "Hearth's Warming Eve" and "Tanks for the Memories" occur between winters. Everything from the latter half of Season 2 to the first quarter of Season 5 happens over the course of a single year.
With "Hearthbreakers", we see the marking of a third full year. At that point, Twilight has been in Ponyville for three-and-a-half years. This timeline works out nicely for the story of the Cutie Mark Crusaders. By this, they have been searching for their cutie marks for less than three years. Based on seasons and school years, we can deduce a roughly two-and-a-half year quest. (This is far more reasonable than the idea that they spent five in-show years failing... not to mention never visibly aging.)
Likewise, we can deduce that from the start of the show to the Season 5 finale, Twilight has known her friends for four years, give or take a few months.
You weren't the only one who drew a Fallout: Equestria connection when you saw this.
I am often asked about the timeline for pre-apocalyptic Equestria. The operating concept that I had while writing the story was that the megaspell holocaust occurred roughly thirty-five years after the premiere of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. I conceptualized that the Mane Six were in their late teens to early twenties at the start of the show, with Pinkie Pie being the youngest ("I'm a year older than you.") and Rarity being the oldest (as a successful beginning entrepreneur). I assumed five years of show-era Equestria under the idea that there could be up to five seasons, and each would represent a year in Equestria.
(I was wrong on both counts, and yet the assumption still works based on in-show content. 
)
After show-era, my idea was that there was a decade of "progress and decay" -- a span of ten years where Equestria flourished, enjoying an industrial renaissance, but with growing international tensions. The war itself spanned twenty years, with the first nine years being a relatively low-scale engagement that occurred primarily on foreign soil and in the seas between Equestria and the zebra lands. The ninth and tenth years of the war saw the massacre at Littlehorn, a restructuring of Equestria's wartime government, and a massive shift the zebra's war mentality. The second decade swiftly escalated into a total war.
We have known since the first season that the speed at which Equestrians were capable of inventing and building vastly outpaces our own. In "Griffon the Brush-Off", we see Pinkie Pie invent a pedal-powered helicopter in the space of an afternoon. The town of Appleloosa was built in a single year. And Ponyville is almost completely destroyed by parasprites only to be back in proper shape by the next episode. (In Fallout: Equestria, this is credited in large part to the subtle magical nature of earth ponies.)
Now, in "The Cutie Re-Mark", we gain a whole new appreciation for how fast Equestria can react and change. Within just few years, Equestria shifted into a total war mentality when facing the forces of Sombra, with complete civilian participation in the war effort. In addition, we see the results of a shockingly fast mechanization of Sweet Apple Acres.
"Warponies"
art by Raikoh-Illust
The drastic industrialization of the Flim-Flam future makes the racing speed of Equestria's technological development in Fallout: Equestria seem more like a mosey.
With these revelations in mind, fanfiction writers have been given a much broader available canvas for creating viable alternate universe stories where a point of departure leads to a drastically altered Equestria still within the lifetime of the characters we all enjoy writing about.
art by Vector-Brony
Nice eye for detail.
... I don't really have a lot else to say right now.
This is still the part of Fo:E which amazes me the most! I honestly have no idea how you pulled that one off. It seems more like something that would take five years, including designing, drafting, editing, rewriting, more editing, and proofreading.
Speaking of that... the Cake twins are still babies at the end of Season Five!! They were born in the middle of Season Two!
How long do pony babies stay babies, anyway?
Absolutely! That's the best. It's awesome. I stressed out over this for several months unnecessarily. I think the most important thing is for a writer to create a good story in its own right, make it internally consistent and entertaining, and don't worry so much about being compliant to the source material which inspired it. Sure, do your best to make it recognizable to your initial fan base. But ultimately, it's up to each author to independently create their own quality universe.
Wow, all of this for the season finale...and I happily agree with all of this. Yeah, Equestria being able to develop so fast into the mentality is really something, you'd never expect a single country to develop that fast in a span of one year right?
3581162 That last part I wholeheartedly agree with you Recon! While it would be nice to make your fanfic recognizable from the fanbase itself, it is always up to the author to do what they believe is right for them
id like to respond to your own head Canon of time passage with my own.
The episode 'Apple Family reunion' mentions that the last family reunion, which occurred season 1 episode 1, happened 100 moons ago.
'Moons' I believe is equal to a lunar cycle, and thus is hopefully equal to at least 13 moons per standard year.
100/13= 7.69 recurring.
So, in my head Canon, with the Summer Sun Celebration taking place at the Summer equinox, the Apple family reunion is around 3/4 through Twilights 8th year in Ponyville.
I can see the cast of Fallout Equestria calling Starlight Glimmer out as canon.
Alternate universes can be a fun concept to play around with in fiction, but as far as 'cannon-compliancy' goes it doesn't make any kind of difference. People who find cannon to be important when dealing with fanworks have many different reasons as to why it's important or impactful to them, but oftentimes it's more to do with keeping in the same tone and believability of the origional than it is following specific details down to the letter on what the original says is possible or not. Sometimes that specific following of rules is what makes things stay consistently believable to some, but just saying something is an alternate universe changes nothing. Everything that makes some people like cannon-compliancy doesn't change just because you can put an 'alternate universe' label on it.
Now I personally am of the opinion that fan-fiction of all kinds shouldn't worry about being strictly cannon, just close enough to make things work. I'm just saying that I don't think your argument there holds much water from what I see.
And on another note, Dash's mechanical wing means that cyber-prosthetics are now cannon!
The beauty of Fallout: Equestria is that, as Fallout takes place in an alternate timeline relative to our own, it's perfectly logical to assume that Fallout: Equestria takes place in an alternate timeline relative to that of canon FIM. That's what I assumed when I first started reading Fallout: Equestria anyway.
As for the issue of alternate universes, I always took a Schrodinger's Dog approach to them; they only exist when we visit them, such as by reading Fallout: Equestria or something, but otherwise, the only timeline is that of the show's canon, rather than a miserable blasted wasteland while ponies in the real Equestria live and laugh and play happily. Essentially, I think the alternate timelines were erased once Twilight and Starlight medled in time.
3581162 I'm personally in the 'everything between season 1- 4 took place within a year camp.
Sadly though, this is sometimes the hardest lesson for some writers, I've found. They want to pretend that they are practically canonical, when all we really do is play around with "what if" scenarios.
My favorite canon FoE reference - accidental or otherwise - is during the wedding episode when we can see Canterlot from Ponyville and it's surrounded by a pink shield. I had to pause the video when I saw that.
Well, Kkat, your theory for the show's timeline is close to what I theorize. The only difference for me, is that I think that the times between the two summer sun celebrations was one year, with the indication of the show being more of an anthology of important events. Then there are certain events that transpire marking hard locations in time. Twilight becoming a princess, Discord becoming reformed, and the CMC getting their cutie marks are the hard points that I use as reference.
That header is breathtaking, and that was an enjoyable read. The finale was quite something, will be the talk of the fandom for months to come.
I feel like the odd one of the group because, while everybody was thinking Fallout during the Wasteland future, I was thinking Strife.
3581459 I feel the same. I didn't imagine Fallout Equestria right away, I actually thought "oh crap the world ended because of them!"
That comic by Vector Brony at the end is, at least to me, hilarious. When you have the cast of Fallout Equestria telling you that you screwed the future. You done screwed the future.
Well kkat it seems you were right about mostly everything, you were right about: Alicorns, megaspells, bypass spells, giant shield spells, ponies becoming industrial in times of war, Rainbow Dash having a scar and fighting on the front line, and self levitation. Good on you
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hi hi
As a meta-narrative, I like alternate timelines just fine, but I gotta say I don't much care for them as a narrative in their own right. I find that it detracts from the meaningfulness of the story when the audience knows there are a bunch of alternate timelines where nothing in the story matters.
Ugh, great. Because that last timeline with the Wasteland was obviously Fallout:Equestria, right? I'm having an easier time believing that Spike made a reference to Hard Reset.
Also, there's a huge difference between a nation escalating to nuclear war despite the efforts of Twilight and co teaching everyone about friendship, and an AU where Equestria is under attack by a ruthless enemy right from the get go.
A more important question would be this: why are the Twilights in all these alternate universes never shown?
Wait we can write Fallout Equestria side stories and we have Kkat's blessing to NOT worry about fucking around with canon? Sweet.
Personally I'm in the at-least-4-years camp show wise in terms of how long they've been together, gives enough time to spread out the multiple world destroying villain crises.
As for the alternate timeline thing, I actually got the opposite impression: That of one timeline that has hard consequences if you mess around with earlier points in the timeline, up to and including mass genocide of everyone you know and love. For good.
3581658 Because they all failed their magic exam as a result of the rainboom never happening, never became Celestia's pupil, and possibly never so much as gave a damn about magic ever again? Everything that makes Twilight Sparkle capable of affecting a timeline gets taken away if she can't hatch that dragon egg.
I feel it should be pointed out that, in canon, the Season 4 premiere marks the first Summer Sun Celebration after Nightmare Moon's return.
3581827
No, it marks the first SSC after Nightmare Moon's return where Luna is participating in the celebration. People keep thinking that Celestia says it's the first SSC, but she never does that!
Whelp, between the show and the work others have done I've come up with my own little headcanon for Fallout Equestria
The first half of the war was actually against Sombra, with Celestia at the helm
Once he was defeated, the Equestrians supplies were dangerously low and the Zebras used the oppurtunity to strike
Celestia steps down and Luna takes control, forming the ministries and waging a war that would eventually lead to the devastation of Equestria
Thanks, Fluttershy
3581820
So how come everyone else managed to make an appearance? Shouldn't they all have been nobodies that died in the first few days of every different apocalypse scenario?
Hell, even the Twi in EQG 3 seemed rather industrious, despite not having any friends nor Celestia to back her.
3581827 The first Summer Sun Celebration that Celestia and Luna celebrate together, if that theory were right then many episodes would either be completely out of order or seasons are unrelated to years and happen when they need to which considering they have a schedule for these things I sincerely doubt. For much of the first (I want to say) three seasons Luna rarely partakes in public events, so the first Summer Sun Celebration Celestia and Luna celebrate together since her banishment could easily be the second, third, or even fourth since her return. Plus, it's around the time she usually goes to sleep if not a little after.
It also makes sense if that's the case given how much guilt Luna has felt over the whole thing that at least for a couple years or so Celestia would be unable to convince her to come.
3581658
Much easier for the show writers to just never mention alternate Twilight. That's the only reason.
3581820 Also Princess Twilight is still from the original timeline. The fact that there are now two Twilights in this world doesn't change along with the future. Therefore Princess Twilight gets to keep her wings and Spike. At least that's my guess.
3581950 Rainbow Dash maintains 100% of her athletic ability. Sure, she doesn't perform a rainboom, but we were never shown a timeline where something could have happened to permanently put her off the idea of racing.
Applejack left home for a very well-off family of upper class ponies, and the Apple clan's sheer size suggests they have a monopoly on the industry. She has access to a top-of-the-line Manehatten education, a sense of loyalty and family that probably always brings her back to the farm, and the organizational know-how to pull everypony together.
Rarity's potential as a seamstress existed before she went to the rock, she simply felt that the school costumes lacked pizzazz. She retains access to literally everything she had before, and is less likely to take things at face value.
We're shown Fluttershy either being left alone by the animals or given help by Starlight Glimmer in ceasing to be the target of bullying. Both situations are likely to make her a more outgoing pony, having to take action to get what she wants instead of letting the universe line up and hand her random blessings and curses.
Pinkie Pie is the younger sister of Maud Pie, the most powerful earth pony we've ever seen. With nothing to distract her, she'd have poured all of that energy into becoming an excellent rock farmer. Alternatively, her innate social talents would have blossomed at a later point.
They aren't made worthless by the lack of a Sonic Rainboom. They're robbed of a particular connection, a greater destiny to become the Elements of Harmony, and therefore are not shoved into the 'we save the world every time' role they occupy in canon. It's not being an Element of Harmony that's made RD a Wonderbolt, it's not an Element of Harmony that's put Rarity in Canterlot, it's their gifts.
There's nothing that says they would never receive their cutie marks if not for the rainboom. They just wouldn't get them together.
3581950 Twilight's big thing was that she wasn't very social after she succeeded, maybe she gave up and made some friends, maybe she's still hopelessly lost in books, either way she eventually got her cutie mark and probably didn't have Celestia around to fix everything. I'm guessing the main reason we didn't see her might be that she's dead.
It was definitely an itnersting finale, without a doubt.
Albeit i do feel there is another way of looking at it. From what Zecora said, her timeline shouldn't even exist. And a lot of them have a common lack of logic. So it seems they are unstable.
The likes of chrysalis, tirek, and Discord are variables. The ycould come, could come earlier, or not at all. But Nightmare Moon and Sombra and constants, they WILL appear at a certain time, as that is when the magics binding them will break. And the likelyhood of chrysalis beating either is inconceivable/
The timelines lacked a certain progression, even the most logical one, nightmare moon, and the most stable one, Sombra. So they were in a sense 'false' but trying to be 'real'.
What starlight and twlight were doing is more equivalent to violent tearing the timeline, rather than left being taken over right. Because of that the timeline that followed become more distorted, more illogical, to the point somehow Flim and Flam became a threat, because so many pieces had been lost that the timeline couldn't properly form, to the point all that remained was ash. The damage created echoes which just made things all the more worse each time, and more lacking in sensible progression.
Thankfully that means the timelines were invalid. Still, who knows what might have happened if starlight and twilight continued that cycle.
The whole Crystal Empire war timeline made me think of Fallout: Equestria quite a bit. The first reason was the full-scale industrialization and mobilization for war, complete with propaganda (And possibly child soldiers; I really hope that was some sort of civilian auxiliary corps or something rather than fresh recruits/draftees). I know it was an alternate timeline, so they could get away with more than usual, but I never expected them to actually show Equestria at war, much less to such an extent. I was impressed!
But then there's other details, too. Despite only having diverged very recently from the main timeline (A few years at most), there was some pretty clear technological development. Dash appeared to have an artificial mechanical wing (While it's possible it could be armor, it seems odd that she'd armor one wing and not the other, or that none of the similarly equipped pegasi would have any), and Pinkie and Maud have what appear to be some sort of power-assist on their forelegs, much like a powered exoskeleton concept (And the kind of thing you'd expect as a possible precursor to fully powered armor).
I doubt there was any actual connection between it and Fallout: Equestria, but there are certainly some similarities that I immediately noticed!
And I still never expected to see an epic pony war, distant future or not.
3582000 And yet they retained theri cutie marks each and every timeline, inspite of their lives changing, and theri experiences too.
Also i have to disagree. You haven't read fallout horizons, which is understandable cause it is a beast. It changes a lot more than just events, but themes. And worse, they don't really work.
Let us say that they did things equivalent to making Celestia a total tyrant cause reasons, and by the end EVERY single pony who had a hoof to play in the end, had theri guilty completely redacted.
3582254 Wrong. We never see any of the Mane Six's cutie marks in the Sombra timeline.
Also, I literally just said that, with the exception of Twilight and possibly Pinkie, they'd probably end up with the same special talent. They get their cutie marks during childhood, not during the show's run.
3581658 They're all dead. Starlight killed them all.
3582290 i would have to say otherwise dude. aj's three apples represented her family ties. without the motivation to head straight back home, its unlikely her mark would be the same.
And even if rarity's love for fashion remained, its unlikely her mark would be gems.
And fluttershy's mark might be veteranarian in nature, but not necessarily butterflies, as the event that made her realize her love of animals was not, in fact, the one where butterflies helped her out.
Also its worht noting every timeline we saw rainbow dash in, she had become military outright rather than a racer. so she focused on something else it would seem, as she would ahve never created the rainboom to begin with.
Would say more unstable timelines also because each timeline woul have the constant of nightmare moon and sombra coming forth, and there is no way Chrysalis could ahve gotten past either of them, let alone both. Even if she conquered canterlot and somehow celestia beat nightmare moon, Sombra would have easily dealt with chrysalis.
Fallout Equestria: Starlight actually had a somewhat sensible solution to the whole canon break that you mentioned in your above post, Kkat. In that story's flashbacks and memory orbs, Twilight ascended to alicornhood, but this was kept top secret from the get-go because tensions between Equestria and the zebras was high enough that they had to worry about Twilight being a target for assassination. She almost always wears a powerful disguise spell to make her look like a normal unicorn. It's not a perfect solution, because of Twilight going abroad in the show and making no attempt to hide her transformation, but it would take less work to reconcile, assuming you're willing to steal volrathxp's idea.
I much prefer the theory that, since ponies control the weather, different regions of Equestria schedule their seasons for different times of year, and any given city might decide to lengthen/shorten or skip seasons entirely based on the needs of the farmers.
This both completely fixes all the season-related timeline issues the show has, and makes a ton more sense in-universe. Why would ponies make it winter everywhere all at once if they didn't need to?
HA!
Personally my mind is still blown by them really stressing the numbing shittyness of a full war economy on a civilian populace. I expected a dark future or two, Nightmare Moon's eternal night blah blah, but I never expected them to go THAT far. This quote from John J. Reilly's (R.I.P) alternate history article about WW3 in the 1950s ("Operation Dropshot")came to mind:
That montage of EVERY. PONY. DOIN. THEIR. PART. was so freakin sad lol. I loved the detail of everypone wearing bland clothing and riding nondescript trains - can't waste precious war resources on making Equestria look like a pretty pink playset anymore!
If I may there is one other for the ash waste. I found this and thought: "Oh, now that is way more scary."
http://silfoe.deviantart.com/art/The-Ashlands-575480276
The battle with Sombra was one of the more darker parts of the finale, but the armor of Dash, Pinkie and Maud looked more like the Astra Millitarum or Imperial Guard from WH40K, but the wasteland that Starlight and Twi appear on does remind me of FoE in that it was uninhabitable for ponies
It's funny how every finale has been better than the last, in my eyes at least. This finale was DEFINATLY the most interesting and emotional finale for me. It wasn't really the cry my eyes out emotional, but those alternate timelines just really made me go "oh no what's going to happen next!?" (not to mention how bad ass they were
).
Then the wasteland ofcourse, man... that just really gave me the feels, and my fo:e bond just made it even more inpactful, just seeing that barren wasteland and that quiet moment with all 3 of them standing there.
Leaving the season with a happy song and a scene with all the ponies together really just left me with the "Feels Good" mood.
Also loved Spike in this episode, reminded me of the Spike in Equestria Girls as the one who gets Twilight back on track.
All in all great episode, loved it.
3584411 As far as the timezones giving A LOT more options for fanfic writers, I completly agree. I am very exited to see what people can come up with, especially seeing how much amazing there is already in this fandom's fanfiction scene.
it' s always been a odd "headcanon" that every fanfic writer,s stories are AUs that are canon in there own world even the bad ones , In one world Cupcakes happened and a nother world it just a movie called " Red Velvet's CupCakes " ands Red is a brown earth pony with a red mane and actor playing her sweet cream hates the role but hasn't found work elsewhere.
my story is falling on this premis. Twilight never became an alicron, but many of the other events besides tierik, who never escaped tarturus. and falls mostly in line with your story while using elements from Fallout 4, like exploding robots and different types of energy cells, or Arcane Reactor and Archane Cell. Celestia is in the SPP Hub, Red Eye and the Goddess exist, but i'm trying to figure out were to put Cadance, as i have Sombra as defeated, Chryslase as hiding and Discord still stone. and last is Luna, who is dead in this timeline. still fleshing out the world while writing the story, and i've sort of getting the other civilizations from the show into the story now with the next chapter. only thing I'm having real Trouble with is a plot point i want to do but don't know if it would be recieved well.
Why does everyone believe that the last future is FoE? I don't remember if it is stated openly, but doesn't the spell send Twi into alternate present, the moment from which she had been sent into the past? All the mane six in every timeline seem to be the same yong age. If the futures are presents, then I prefer to believe that FoE timeline is with Flim and Flam. Seriously. This seems to be interesting.