Should Sunset Shimmer go back? · 11:14pm Sep 28th, 2015
Friendship Games has come and gone. I liked it, and I'll have a review up when it hits DVD. (I kind of want to see these fabled "deleted scenes.") But I also have a few comments to make about something that has been brought up a lot, whether it be criticism of the film or just in general:
Why didn't Sunset Shimmer go back to Equestria?
The movie's earliest actual trailers showed that part of the film would have reality be ripped a new one, creating portals to Equestria other than the one in the statue's base. Some took this to mean that Sunset would now have to cross into Equestria to resolve the problem, possibly staying there permanently, while Sci-Twi took over as the protagonist of Equestria Girls. Still others just wanted Sunset to go back at the end of the movie as a solution to her homesickness. And even before Friendship Games was announced, Rainbow Rocks generated a lot of interest in somehow getting Sunset Shimmer away from the uplifted primates and back to the pretty, pretty equines. (There were a couple of stories and ideas about her going back after the first film was released, but that movie's ending put a much more definite block on her being able to go back, even if she wanted to.)
After all, if she's back in Equestria, we can have her show up in Friendship is Magic. She could even join the Mane 6! It would be awesome!
And I am here to be the misguided wet blanket that ruins everything.
There are basically four problems with having Sunset Shimmer return to Equestria:
1) Sunset Shimmer is still a criminal. This is something that's kind of glossed over, seeing as she's only a pony for the very first few minutes of Equestria Girls and that prequel comic, but she's guilty of assault, theft, conspiracy against the throne, and a multitude of other offenses in Equestria alone. That doesn't even include all the stuff she did at CHS during her time as a villain, and the fact that she tried to enslave an entire world to launch an invasion of her homeland. She's guilty as sin on all counts, too. At least in the human world, she can work towards redeeming herself and running out the statute of limitations.
2) There's a rather unfortunate undercurrent with a lot of these pushes to get Sunset back to Equestria. The first movie was, as many of us have said, not very good. Sunset in particular was a one-dimensional villain who was only interesting because of her backstory and all the potential it had. The second and third films, however, have done a lot to make her a more realized character, almost on par with the Mane 6. So for those who like Sunset Shimmer, but aren't sold on Equestria Girls, taking the best part of those movies and putting it into the show they like means they don't have to sit through humanized ponies anymore. This may not sound too bad, but it does discount all of the other things that make Sunset work, which leads into the third problem...
3) Sunset Shimmer does not fill a role with Friendship is Magic's Mane 6.
The Mane 6 is a pretty tight and well-balanced group. Each character has their own character, personality, and quirks that offset those of another and, when used well, help create good comedy and heartfelt moments. Sunset Shimmer is built a similar way, but she's built to bounce off of the rest of the human characters. While there are definite differences between her and Twilight, she's still designed to fill in the same role, especially with the events of Friendship Games. She's the leader, she's the smart one, and she's the one most connected with magic. Trying to cram her into the already-balanced Mane 6 just throws everything off. And if Sunset's just going to be a cameo character, why can't she just visit from Equestria once in a while? Why go through the whole song-and-dance of taking her home permanently?
And that leads us to the biggest issue:
4) What does she have to go home to?
When Sunset left Equestria, she pretty much threw away any future there. She was once Celestia's student, but she lost that because she couldn't keep her ambition under control. She has no friends waiting for her in Equestria, and there isn't any indication that she has a family that particularly misses her. Meanwhile, the human world has six friends she can hang out with, a school that now largely accepts her, and magical mysteries that still need to be unraveled. She may have taken a long time to get there, but she has a place she belongs.
And besides, pretty much all that world's magical problems are her fault. She introduced Equestrian magic into the human world. The Sirens wouldn't have been such an issue if she hadn't brought in magic. Sci-Twi wouldn't have turned into a knowledge-hungry monster if she hadn't brought in magic. How does it look when you bring potential doom to a world, and then bugger off before you have a chance to fix it? Sunset even alludes to the possibility of other magical dangers in the future. So here, she can still study the way magic works and find a way to help make up for her mistake. She can make an actual difference.
Why should she give that up just because she's a little homesick about a home that no longer offers anything to her?
I should clarify that I don't mean that Sunset should never go back to Equestria. I want to see a one-shot episode where she visits and reconciles things with Celestia, if only so that I can count it as being technically a Celestia episode. (Which is why it will never happen, because Celestia shall never get an episode.) Nor do I think Sunset is a bad character. She's become much better since the failed introduction in the first movie, and she's possibly my favorite character in the franchise right now. But until something happens in the plot that actually justifies her going back to Equestria, I think she'll be just fine where she is.
...
Speaking of which, I have been sadly inspired again. So, shall it be the tongs, the rack, or the MLA treatment?
From what I have heard they ran the uncut version of the movie in Canada with no commercials and there was no difference aside from cutting the end credits.
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I know. I saw the Canadian cut.
The DVD/Blu-Ray is advertising "deleted scenes." I'm fairly certain they won't amount to anything, but I want to be certain before I post anything. They won't affect my opinion of the movie, but...eh, I like to be thorough.
3428294 That I can understand. I did not hear about the disc having deleted scenes, that is just going to make it harder for me to wait 15 more days for the blu-ray.
I'm not sure #1 should really be any consideration at all. The running theme of Friendship is Magic has always been one of forgiveness over punishment. Luna in the premiere, Trixie with the alicorn amulet, and even Discord have all been seemingly been given full pardons. Seeing as Sunset is genuinely repentant there no reason to expect she'd be treated any differently.
Otherwise I pretty much agree on every other point, but you already knew that from our private talks.
To be fair I think Sunset had enough reason to go back after the first EqG and perhaps even for most of Rainbow Rocks. But the newest movie? Nah, maybe a short visit to see family or try to make amends with Celestia but I can't see her staying.
You raise some very good points.
That Sunset Shimmer is a criminal is true, and she would have to answer in some form or another for her crimes on returning to Equestria. That though to me almost seems like a reason why she should return, at least as you said in one episode. Having that hanging as a sword over her limits her character. If she resolved this, and emerged redeemed in both Equestria and the Human(?) worlds, then chose to remain as a human to correct the situation she started in the first place, both her character and opportunities are grown. I definitely join you is wishing for an episode where Sunset tries to make right what she wronged with Celestia.
I don't see Sunset moving back to Equestria anytime soon, for the reasons you clearly stated. Her life, her friends, and her calling are with the humans, not the ponies. She has unfinished business in Equestria, but she has a life with the humans. That said, I could easily see her returning to Equestria during her sunset (pun intended) years after spending her life as a human.
Sunset Shimmer does not fill a role with the FiM Main 6. Clearly true. Even if all the hype and speculation were right, and she really is a seventh element of harmony (The element of Redemption - wow wouldn't that be great) and even if she were truly ascended (please tell me she is - hoping hoping hoping) so she is what she saw in the mirror, the Alicorn Princess she dreamed of being, she would still be the Human Alicorn. Her role is clearly as a human, fixing the issues in the human world with the magic that now resides there. Heck the humans could use an alicorn or two (SciTwi the Alicorn? Maybe? I could see it).
What does she have to go home to? That is the question - so many fics have tried to address that, but what is Sunset's story? Maybe if the writers ever do let her go back to heal the wounds with Celestia, they could give us some gems on Sunset's back story.
Personally, I hope to see more of Sunset Shimmer for years, whatever it takes. Even if it is just for an hour at a time, just once a year.
I wouldn't expect her to be anything close to a main character, but I think it'd be awesome for Sunset to end up back in equestria for more than just a one shot. I mean, if the portal is basically a 'whenever you want' kinda thing now, she can easily go back and forth to keep checking in on Human world magic. I'm sure she still has some sort of family or whatever in Equestria, at least one pony maybe. As for friends... I mean, she's an adult that's friends with high school students. She was a grown pony at least before Twilight became Celestia's student, if not even further back, so she's definitely not their age.
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"Age" is sort of a really nebulous thing when it comes to MLP. I mean, we know Sunset was old enough to have a cutie mark, but pon8es seemingly earn those pretty young. She was seemingly full grown (at least in the comics) but we don't really know what pony growth cycle is.
She's presumably older than the pony M6, but we don't really know how old any of them are. Sure they might all be "adults" by Equestrian standards, but it's a pseudo medieval culture so they might conceivably all be teenagers. Hypothetically the M6 could all be the same age as high school sophomores and Sunset no older than maybe a high-school senior that got held back a year - hardly an insurmountable gap.
Yeah, and it's not like there's a clearly defined timeline that shows exactly when Sunset ceased to be Celestia's student to the point where Twilight met her after her ascension. Time is a seriously confusing concept in MLP, to the point where I'm not even bothering to try and figure it out.
I definitely agree with you 100% IAH. Sunset is Twilight's distaff counterpart, made to deal with the problems involving friendship and magic on the human side of the portal. It'd be bad for both sides for her to travel and live in Equestria permanently.
Imagine a world where Celestia got an episode but also a separate special or something that dealt with the fallout of Sunset's crimes. Twilight mediates. Sincere emotions are dealt with. Maybe a song?
Personally I think that Sunset role is the same as Twilight's in Equestria, to spread the magic of friendship. Now before you read on you should know that NO I don't think Sunset is now an Alicorn nor will she ever ascend to such.
It's as Twilight said, the magic of friendship is everywhere and this world needs sunset to spread it, and there's a reason for why Sunset has to do it, because the human world is cold and cruel sometimes, It's not as easy to make friends in the human world then in Equestria because well... we've lost our trust in each other and it's so much easier to just look out for yourself what's more if certain people found out about the magic at Canterlot high they'd try to harness it and eventually make it a weapon, the human world need's someone who's been in a dark place if you will, someone who know's what it's like to be power hungry and be alone.
Furthermore I think this is OUR role as well.
The criminal bit is easy enough to fix, Celestia issues Sunset a pardon.
Smart people are always mistaken for wet blankets.
Considering the crap all the other main characters have gotten away with scot-free, does Equestrian even have a formal justice system?
I'm not sure how not having one would work, but it explains so much...
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...or Twilight, seeing as she's a princess too now and Sunset's crimes were specifically against her. In fact, for all intents and purposes Twilight seemingly basically already did exactly that by both reaching out with a hand of friendship and subsequently leaving Sunset behind to make amends at CHS rather than dragging her back to stand any kind of trial in Equestria.
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Having Celestia issue it would give it greater acceptance, but she never really did advertise that her student went bat-crap crazy.
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That and again her only crimes in Equestria were specifically against Twilight in the middle of the night, while she was away from home, so it's not as if there'd even likely be much public knowledge in that regard. So there really wouldn't be anyone else that needs the "acceptance" factor.
I just want to know what happened to Human Sunset. I have my personal head-canon- on that issue, but I guess we'll see.
So... not sure whether to take this as a response to 'Going Home' or not...
In any event, I actually agree that it makes sense for Sunset to stay in EQG-verse for the foreseeable future, though I too think she should be able to visit home now and then to say hi to her friends, family, the pony versions of her friends, etc. And to apologize to the princesses for, y'know, the whole attempted demonic invasion thing. I think that could be a really sweet episode.
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It's more a response to other comments made elsewhere.
well, I think something to consider is what place does the human world have for Sunset Shimmer? sure she's a social butterfly now, but even if the EG world isn't as big on administration as ours is, I still imagine there to be some form of registration - Sunset is largely undocumented except for high school yearbook photos...
Also, I'd like to question: what are thoughts on human-world Sunset Shimmer? Is she dead, did she run away, do both Sunsets actually live together? If H!Sunset is dead, it poses the least problem - esp if nobody knows. but if she still exists in that world, our Sunset may be slowly running out of time. high school isn't a big deal, people come and go - but what if one of the Sunsets were to gain prominence in some field as people getting older are expected to do? for example, imagine H!Sunset runs for mayor and everyone starts seeing her picture plastered all over without realizing it's a different Sunset? we saw a short version of H!Twilight being confused as all hell upon coming to CHS and Princess Twilight was only in the world for a few days total!
in any case, I think Sunset will start to encounter problems once societal adulthood hits.
logically, Sunset should stay in the human world until the magical loose ends are all tied up. it'd be pretty crappy of her to ditch it after all she's put it through. part of me is surprised she didn't think "oh crap, I brought the magic here it's not going anywhere until I leave and take it back with me"
personally I'd really want to see her in Equestria for a 2-part season opening/finale, and occasionally back in Equestria (ie not part of the main show) because I just love her character and don't want to see her often enough to sully my view of her. she could be a specialized character (like Zecora), or a background (Derpy). maybe an episode where she comes and the others try awkwardly to make friends with her (Maud Pie 2
)
if I write it I'll put a link to this blog
and dammit. these comments gave me a Celestia-episode plot bunny
I sort of agree. While it would be a crying tragedy for Sunset not to be utilised if they don't do any more Equestria Girls movies, it would be... Awkward for telly to bring her across to Equestria. We already have, like ten main characters (yes, Spike and the CMC count!) and without a series as long as Naruto[1] it would be difficult to find more screentime for all of them. I mean, heck, we don't have enough screen time for all the other characters to boot - we're still crying out for a Celestia episode (Luna's had umpteen nopw, and two where she was very solidly the focus). We're still seeing combinations of the mane characters we don't see much even now! Sunset overlaps a little too much with Twilight's role, too, in the same regard.
Now, in fanfiction (or possibly novels, should that ever be A Thing) or even in the comics - Sunset could credibly have be dug in enough space to work, because there's a little more luxary of time and format.
That said, we totally could have some Sunset camoes in the show at some point, when things get Really Serious or something, because it would be cool.
[1] I am all for that, mind, if they can keep the quality up...
THIS... should totally be the premise for the episode that she returns to equestria for.
Sunset Shimmer wants to return home to equestria, the land of her birth and place she grew up. The problem is that she never really considered what that means. While she enjoys the company of Twilight and her friends, she finds herself feeling strangely out of place as she tries to readapt to pony customs, the differences and lack of background with the pony elements of harmony, and the fact that while her parents (and any friends she may have had) have missed her and still love her, they have mostly moved on with their lives. At the end of all this, Sunset returns to speak with Celestia to apologize and finds herself feeling as if there is nothing really left for her in the pony world at which point she confides in the others that she intends to go back to live out the majority of the rest of her life as a human though she may still visit occasionally. She cites that she has many friends waiting for her there and a quite possibly a brighter future.
At the end, a friendship report could be written saying that while you may be friends with someone, they might not always feel comfortable living in the same place as you no matter how much you try to help make them feel more at home and that you shouldn't take it personally if they decide to move away to another place.
I think the main reason why people want Sunset to go to Equestria is because of the unused potential in her and Celestia's interactions. Plus, we have no idea what the heck her poor parents are thinking {Assuming that she's not an orphan}, and it would be nice to see Sunset and Celestia reconcile.