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Adult Humour · 6:58pm
...should be rated as mature.
Thanks!
(You know who you are)
knighty · 430 views
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My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic FanfictionDesigned and coded by knighty - © 2011-2013
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Comments ( 273 )
How to confuse every writer
But, but, the views!
Also totally stealing that picture.
Who?
Friendly Uncle right?
:V
I bet it's Friendly Uncle.
Just saying.
>>243649
I'm reading that ATM XD
>>243657
When I saw the filth that was Fluffershy make it to the featured box, I cried blood. At first, I thought I had the mature box checked.
You almost gave me a panic attack, thought I'd forgotten to rate something as Mature.
LOL
But I'm scared now.
Hmn, I feel slightly guilty for apparently helping convince him that he could remove the mature tag from some of his stories.
>>243657 I believe this was aimed at Bronystories, seeing as Odd Jobs just got a rating hike.
>>243665
That is one heck of a reaction. Last time I wept blood, I had gazed unprotected into the mind of a Great Old One.
>>243649 eeyup.
FINALLY!
Thank you! You have earned my eternal gratitude!
Just change the term from "adult humor" to "extremely immature adolescent humor" and we'll be cool.
phallus
So I can't talk about mixing Pinkie's batter in everyone stories anymore... Damn it.
>>243719
No... if it is sufficiently subtle enough, it doesn't need to be rated Mature. It is only the ones that are outright all about the adult humor that have to be mature.
Care?
To put it in other words:
We know what you're doing.
Cut it out.
>>243727 They see me trollin, they hatin.
I was wondering why Fluffershy was in the featured box. Thought I had checked the mature box by accident.
Speaking of which...where is the mature box I can check? I can't find it now.
So, if we put just a small amount of adult humour in it, it has to be rated mature? Like, if anything remotely related to it is involved even once, it has to be rated mature?
Rule with an iron fist, I guess.
>>243740
In the tab that says your username, hover your mouse over it. The check box is right at the bottom.
>>243740
Go to the box with your username on the green bar near the top of the page and mouse-over it. The mature box is at the bottom of the list of options. Or you can just check it before logging in.
>>243743 Oh there it is! Thanks for pointing that out.
Also: >>243734 Win.
I personally have had no problem with it, but I can certainly see how it could be a problem for others.
My only suggestion/request would be this: a mature humour tag, similar in nature to the existing mature tags.
>>243741
See my comment. Use the rule they use on TV.
This is your guide to whether or not you need a mature rating: Getting crap past the radar. It is about how strong and how prevalent the humour is throughout the work.
>>243754 Right, thanks.
>>243755
Glad I can help.
>>243665
Wow... Intolerant much?
And suddenly several dozen or more writers are very nervous about the safety of their fan fictions.
Interesting announcement. But I have to wonder, and I'm sure others are curious too... Is it like a zero tolerance sort of thing, or is there a certain line that must be crossed regarding the explicitness or amount of the dirty jokes before it has to be Mature? Or is "better safe than sorry" the best approach, and just slap a Mature rating on it if you're unsure? Probably the latter.
>>243768
I am wondering about that too. I'm not worried cause I'm pretty sure none of my stories don't have anything like this, but I just want to be sure.
(Gah a 502 bad gateway error delayed my reply.)
So only baby talk?
>>243765
It's not intolerant to call filth by its name.
But, I DON'T know who I am!
...OR ELSE WE'LL GET THE SOUP!!!
I wonder how long this bulletin will take to percolate through the ponynets. A whole lot of fics just became incorrectly rated.
I mean they already were incorrectly rated, but it's more obvious now.
>>243784
Sorry, but I tend to disagree. I don't believe something containing rather juvenile humor should be identified so poorly as 'filth', nor does it deserve the "I cried blood" response sir Hivemind felt the need to have and share. The story's point wasn't to offend, it was to humor. If he meant 'filth' as in, 'vulgar', that may have been acceptable, but that would still be insulting and intolerant in a minor level.
>>243765
Besides the content, you have to admit it was just not written very good.
and so begins the shitstorm that is the neigh-borhood watch please tell me its not about odd jobs i love that story and its obcene humor its just too funny to block kind of how like Mr. wuncler from the boondocks is too rich to shoot
on another note, yay we finally here something from knighty! (too bad its not a story
)
>>243848
The judgment Mr. Hivemind is making is an ethical one. It's not a matter of mere amusement or mere preference.
I...
I don't get it.
Disturbed Sweetie Belle's face is such... ugh...
NIGHTMARE FUEL!
>>243855
Even if it was no TAW story, it still made me (and 1625 others, if the rating is reliable) laugh, or at least giggle, thus fulfilling its purpose. I admit, it wasn't the best (all in all, a fun little story, but nothing I'd give 5 stars out of 5), it still, however, did not deserve to be called (and perhaps even insulted as) 'filth'.
I think there should be a strict difference between Teen and Mature- Odd Jobs is most certainly just teen. even if it does border a bit on the heavy side. It is in no way 'pornographic' and shouldn't be treated as such. Making things that should be open to everypony who want to read it limited seems a bit... Tyrant-lestia ish. I'm gonna be forced to have the Mature tag on so I can read my favorite stories, and if my parents saw some of the truly mature stuff there was because I have the tag checked *shudder*.
Maybe we need some sort of "Highly Suggestive" tag. Something just between that 'Mature' and 'Teen', so there's an even balance.
>>243867
Tolerance: "a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry."
If calling something you disagree with as 'filth' in an insulting manner can be considered tolerant, then perhaps I should retry looking at our (the bronies') motto "Love and Tolerance", because I have been very, very wrong about it all along.
Look! A flame war!
>>243874 If that's nightmare fuel, then Giygas will have the easiest time with you.
:3
Dear prudence
Wow. This is what happens when an almost exclusive clop writer is given the spotlight. I didn't know when to draw the line. Mia culpa. I'm sorry for breaking the ratings system. I went back and tried to sufficiently edit the offending chapter, but I won't change my story from Mature back to Teen until I've gotten proper permission. Sorry again.
Hmph.
So it's all about gettin' inflated read numbers by markin' stuff all-ages when it's naughty humor?
I've read some of this naughty humor and it's fine stuff, even if it ain't exactly deep.
Anypony who's read my main writing knows there's not the shadow of a doubt that it is fiercely cloppy, and perhaps because of this, I have never, EVER gotten any feature, or sidebar placement, or anything of the sort.
And I still have folks frantic to get new chapters and have just been lobbied by a pony who begs me to finish the whole book ASAP- because he will not read it until it is done, and apparently reading what OTHER folks are saying about it is causing him to go crazy with urgent need to read it.
Enjoy the scrabbling after reader numbers and features- I don't mind admitting that I get envious of all that exciting attention folks get.
But talk to me when you can keep the momentum going over sixteen or twenty chapters and a hundred, hundred-twenty thousand words- and remember there are many paths to the same mountain.
I say go ahead and mark the fics 'mature' if that's how you want to write them! The number of casual readers you can grab is not the same as the effect you have. I know that for me I really don't even pay attention to whether a fic is mature or not- and plenty of 'mature' fics aren't mature in outlook at all.
And if you don't care about the craft and all you want is to get the feature box, you should write a story about Twilight Sparkle getting the feature box... woops! You should make good smutty comedies packed with sneaky and funny innuendo and rate 'em all ages- ack! You should, um...
You should write more poni. Works for me!
>>243881
I think the point they are both trying to make and yet not quite wording correctly, is that they found it to be offensive. The long and short of it. This is their opinion and I will admit that I tend to agree. Friendly Uncle has apparently had these stories for some time and has only just started putting them up here. Personally, I am more displeased with the fact that these old and very well known stories are getting featured. It is breaking the feature box, and it is not serving the purpose for which it was created. I understand that this has happened with other well known fics in the past, and they were all of several genres. That these stories contain "adult" humor and explicit scenes but are not rated properly, adds to the frustration. There is a good reason for the mature rating and filter: other people don't want to read it. This is not being intolerant, this is being selective. Would you call someone intolerant for not enjoying a fantasy story or because they don't want to read a horror story? Intolerance would be a mob shouting "KILL IT WITH FIRE!" and refusing to listen to reason until the offending fic is removed. It doesn't even have to be a mob shouting it, just one person being intolerant would make sure to be a nuisance until he got his way. So far, I have not seen petitions to have these stories removed or the author banned. Messrs Hivemind and G.D.G. Davidson are merely stating their opinions on the stories. I would venture so far as to say that perhaps you are on the intolerant side for accusing them of being intolerant because they voiced opinions that were unfavorable to something that you apparently like, as per the very definition of tolerance that you provided.
>>243881
Sigh. Here we go. We're discussing pornography and risque content in fiction, not "those whose," etc, etc. This is about the fiction, not about the people. To call pornography filth is an ethical judgment, perhaps expressed emotionally, but an ethical judgment nonetheless. It is not a personal insult to anyone.
If "tolerance" means an inability to understand ethics or a refusal to make ethical judgments, you can certainly count me out. Actually, you can count everyone out, because nobody can really do this, at least consistently. You, for example, were making an ethical judgment of Hivemind's comment, but yours is inconsistent, because you were telling someone not to make judgments while you yourself were making one. This is why "Don't make ethical judgments" and every variation thereof cannot be taken seriously as a moral imperative, because it contradicts itself and cannot be followed. The only alternative is to draw the conclusion that objective morality exists and then to explore its contents.
>>243686
Last time i did that, Cthulhu's mind got trapped in my head.
Turns out Cthulhu has a deathly fear of veterinarians.
Foolish scum, I wished thou shalt not disclose that embarrassing information.
Ah, shut up you old coot.
>>243963
>Anypony who's read my main writing knows there's not the shadow of a doubt that it is fiercely cloppy, and perhaps because of this, I have never, EVER gotten any feature, or sidebar placement, or anything of the sort.
I don't really get this. I've been featured three times, and all of them were for clops / things with cloppy elements.
But-- look, lets be honest-- popularity is random. I can see plenty of fantastic fics that languish with only a few hundred views. I can see mediocre things that get thousands. I can see nice people who are popular. I can see not so nice people who are popular.
Look: the thing is here, it's just about letting people know what they are in for. And there should be some reasonable deference to say that-- if something could be perceived as very naughty by lots of people, be on the safe side and tag mature... that seems fine to me.
It could be rainy outside, tag an umbrella in our list of stuff to pack. Same principle.
>>244004
Pretty much this. If someone is wanting to read a story about Twilight being in heat there's a 99% chance they're viewing mature stories anyway. Remember, not everyone who uses this site is 20 years old.
>>244025
{side thing}
Not to be cheeky or anything, but isn't "how old are the viewers to this site" something that you as the site manager are able to check using online services? Like I can read that, say, "the average age of someone using CNN.com is 23"... what about here?
>>244025 who?
>>244035
The closest to that is Alexa and it doesn't do anything below 18.
>>244050
That reminds me that I probably should not be using Fimfiction.net at work...
>>243933 yeah i still cant get that music out of my head
I mean good gawd, Gigyas is pretty frieking scary for a boss in a E rated game.
>>244062 You mean....
THIS!?
AAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!
>>243784
Woah my friend, take it easy. Filth is a little strong.
50 years ago a man having long hair was considered "filth". Now it is what it is and few care. It is the same with themes like this. It is just humor. If you don't like it, don't read it.
Having an opinion is perfectly fine and obviously no against the law but there is no need to be so hostile.
Love and Tolerance brother. Love and Tolerance.
>>244078 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! my one weakness
Everyone knows it's Friendly Uncle. Come on. Still, adult humor doesn't quite fit under the "Sex" category if you ask me. Yes, it's adult content, but I was under the impression either Sex or Gore had to be marked if the story was described as having adult content.
>>244100
No you don't have to tag either
Swag! Swag!
>>244105
Oh, then that's just my mistake. Did you ever get my email? I sent one like a week ago....
>>243970
...Are we on the same page here? I was discussing whether or not what Hivemind said could be interpreted as intolerant or not. When you say it's an ethical judgement, are you referring to "It depends on one's morals", or that "It's morally right to call pornography filth"? The definition of said word changes a lot, I'm just making sure we're, again, on the same page.
>>243964
An interesting point of view! It's always nice to have others join in on the discussion, it brings a lot new to the table.
"Would you call someone intolerant for not enjoying a fantasy story or because they don't want to read a horror story?" No, indeed, I would not. I would, however, if they started badmouthing something they clearly did not enjoy and felt the express need to say how horrible it was. And yes, I admit, I am intolerant to intolerance.
"Messrs Hivemind and G.D.G. Davidson are merely stating their opinions on the stories." And I see that, they made it quite clear. The whole of this discussion sparked from Hivemind's comment, calling it 'filth' and expressing how he 'cried blood' when he saw it on the feature box. It proceeded to whether or not what he said could be considered some level of intolerance.
Now, your given example of intolerance is that one would go asking the story to be removed and the author banned, which I admit, is a clear example. Now, is it an example of extreme intolerance, or the only kind one can call 'intolerance'?
...Is it a matter of opinion?
This really isn't a big deal. All this really means is that if you want to read a story with dirty jokes in it you need to turn view mature on.
>>243686 YOU FOOL! No one is to gaze unprotect at the mind of the Great Old Ones! Why the very act could've taken your soul! But do tell a cultist... what was it like. was it hell or heaven. Maybe both?
>>244105 Knighty... Friendly Uncle's stories are no more adult than Beating The Heat, which is a teen rating. Why is this a problem?
so... does my story Harmless Shenanigans need a matoor rating?
im terribly confoosed
(my key next to Y and I is broken. I'm not being a dick abo.. aboot this)
>>244157 actually, yes, it likely does, at the least it needs the sex tag
>>244120
Yes, it's morally right to call pornography filth. I hope that's not actually under debate.
>>243964
That's close to what I'm getting at, but I would say the subject matter in question is obscene, that finding it offensive is a correct response to obscenity, and that this is not a mere matter of taste, akin to preferring pumpernickel to rye, but a matter of ethics. Literature or film or other art forms can be ethically murky simply because the intended ends of an artistic work cannot always be known with certainty by an audience, and the ends are at least as important as content in ethical criticism. In some cases, however, the determination of the intended end is not too difficult, so, for example, one can make a clear distinction between, say Saving Private Ryan and Saw, even though the level of violence they contain might be approximately the same, and recognize that the latter is torture porn whereas the former is not, because of the intentions of the works. In other cases, regardless of the intended end, the content itself is immoral. In the case of a work that depicts horses pornographically, for example, the evaluation is not difficult.
>>244156 Yeah, this is what I am wondering.
If Friendly Uncle's stuff needs a mature rating, then there are a ton of other fics that need to have their rating upped as well.
>>244105
So, can a Teen rating be reclaimed through making necessary edits? I was told by Wlah to go through you directly on this issue. Feel free to message me with any instructions. Thanks!
>>243923
I'll get my marshmallows, chocolates, and crackers!
>>244120
I'd say that what I cited was a case of extreme intolerance. And to a certain degree, what one would deem intolerance could come down to opinion, based on the circumstances. Mister Hivemind was very zealous with his wording in his displeasure. I don't know if he speaks from experience, as in he's read it, or if he is basing his opinion on the description/reputation of the fic. As for me, I have not read it, and I don't intend to. If it floats somepony else's boat... Well, I'll disagree on an ethical level but I can't make them stop, nor is it my place to do so.
>>244174
Totally agree. To me, the whole clopping thing makes no sense, neither do the ultra-realistic and gritty even gory stories. It's so out of place, especially for a universe like FIM. The last thing I want to see is something innocent twisted around itself to make it more like the real world. The whole point, for me at least, is that this is a fantasy, it doesn't have to be like the real world and it probably shouldn't be. There are plenty of ways to make a story powerful and compelling without using offensive scenes and content. I really admire authors who can do that, I think it shows their true genius. It takes a lot more fwork to do it that way, but ultimately I think the reader gets more out of it. It all comes down to taste I guess.
>>244174
Pornography = filth?
You need to let go of your 1920's view of the world, mate.
>>244174
Unfortunately I cannot simply read that and go unspoken with a friend in that profession.
Morally right to call pornography filth?
Why would you say that?
What moral out there says that?
Who gave such a moral?
And if it was given, wouldn't it be an opinion of the one giving it? In other words, should a moral code be decided upon from an opinion? Not the actual measure of harm it causes?
Has pornography ever killed anyone? Given anyone cancer? Caused driving accidents on a noticeable and frightening scale? You might note the social harm that it might cause between husband and wife or perhaps with friends. But wouldn't this domestic disruption be based solely on the moral that was made from an opinion? An abstract rule that was made by someone who would just automatically think filth?
There are news stories all the time about how smoking, drinking, and even online games have broken up countless more marriages then the simple viewing of an act between two consenting adults.
Which brings me to the next point. Aren't there laws in place to limit it's exposure to under aged audiences? Just as there are drinking and smoking laws?
I highly encourage you to watch a show by Penn & Teller titled, "Bullsh*t". They have an episode based on this exact topic. I believe it will shed some light on the difference between a "Moral right" and an opinion.
Okay so let me ask about these examples of humour:
-
"You've never done it with a woman Richie."
"Well yes, but I've done it mentally. Boy have I done it mentally! Look at that bicep!"
-
"It's just a little hobby of mine, why don't you go and do yours?"
"Well I've had five this afternoon already." And shakes his arm as if it's aching.
-
Or a scene where one is putting out a fire on his crotch by using a fishbowl, having the other coming in looking at him and saying "I see you found something to pass the time."
Would you claim such humor has to be marked as mature? As they all come from the BBC comedy show 'Bottom' which was shown on the most popular British TV channel in the afternoon and was famous through both the younger and older generations. I would rate such humor as teenager yes. But mature absolutely no chance. Adult humour when done in such a way is PERFECTLY fine for teenagers and even children to watch considering a children's program interviewed them about the show. Yes the children likely didn't understand the sexual innuendo behind the humour, but that is exactly the point! It was done in such a way that makes it completely tasteful and fine for everyone.
Adult humor that IS mature, yes that should be marked as mature. Adult humor that ISN'T like the ones mentioned above shouldn't be.
>>244174
>>244217
After giving this all some much needed thought, I've come to the same conclusion I already came to before.
...The only way to win an argument on the internet is to walk away from it, because neither party are willing to back down.
'Tis a realization I've accepted, and so I'll be walking away from this. I hope for two things.
One, that there'll be no bad blood between us in the future over this (rather petty) quarrel, and that two, we can settle our different opinions behind us like gentlemen and agree that ponies are awesome.
I bid both a good day.
A simple post about how to rate adult humor devolves into an argument about the ethics of pornography.
Will there be clarification at some point on how far is too far and thus needs a mature rating?
I find it hilarious that everyone knew who the blog post was directed at, even without it being explicitly stated.
>>244228 Not the actual measure of harm it causes?
I was wondering when someone would ask a question like that. This is the consequentialist view of ethics, which justifies vice by disregarding acts themselves, circumstances, and intended ends, and instead focuses only on "harms." Any immoral activity can be justified this way, simply by defining harm narrowly enough or refusing to explore consequences thoroughly. But even if we were to consider harm only, there is more than enough information available to you on the harm pornography causes if you care to look it up.
And if it was given, wouldn't it be an opinion of the one giving it?
That's an interesting question; you are essentially asking whether ethical laws require an authoritative lawgiver. There are some arguments that they do, but acceptance of such arguments is not necessary to an understanding of ethics. Moral goodness, briefly defined, is the conformation of the will of a free agent with its proper end or telos, so it is not a matter of mere "opinion," by which you here appear to mean personal taste.
You already accept the existence of an objective morality that is not a mere matter of taste. You would not, for example, consider it morally justifiable for me to come over to your house and kill your dog, regardless of whether I was of a different opinion. I cannot help but notice that when people attempt to argue ethics from a consequentialist or relativistic standpoint, they do so only in matters of sex.
As long as you're recommending Penn and Teller as your, ahem, sages, I'll recommend Aristotle, Thomas Aquinas, as Alistair MacIntyre to you in return.
>>244245 I have to agree with all of your posts, here. I'm not going to argue with anyone, but I dare say that I've got your back on this one.
>>244288
>You would not, for example, consider it morally justifiable for me to come over to your house and kill your dog, regardless of whether I was of a different opinion.
I have to question the wisdom of claiming that there is an objective morality by talking about a situation in which an act is morally justifiable to one person and at the same time not to another person.
I just want to weigh in on the intolerance debate going on: you guys have been arguing opinions, and little more. Usually on the internet, that devolves from argument to flame war pretty quickly. I'm applauding you guys for keeping it civil.
For everyone else; this looks to be directed pretty firmly at a certain few authors. I don't think everyone at large needs to worry much.
If the story contains a little adult humour, it's probably okay. If the story is all about adult humour, then mark it mature.
>>244297 Thanks, I appreciate it. Always nice to know someone out there agrees with you.
Perhaps we should get more of a set of concrete guidelines as to what constitutes a 'mature' story, as the definition can vary from group to group depending on the material. Most of the stuff should be obvious, but where does one cross the line between a 'teen' rating and a 'mature' one?
>>244142
To even describe what I saw could spell the end of things. However... there were cookies.
>>244288
Unfortunately you must have misunderstood me. I see a lot of fancy wording mixed in with what could only possibly be a college course in such things or a very well pursued hobby.
The problem here is, there aren't many immoral practices that can just be explained away. Like coming over to kill my dog. I chose sex as my topic because that is the topic that we are on. If you would like I can go into other matters. Many many other matters. I can give you one that is similar to the dog.
A person shoots another in the kneecap with a firearm. Moral or immoral? I think we would both agree immoral. Because some governing entity says it is bad to? No. Not at all. Because of the simplest of rules. The golden rule to be exact. Treat others as you wish to be treated. I am aware such a notion is hardly possible in our day and age but it is still there and still guides our actions.
Why don't we need a governing body to dictate to us whether or not a shot kneecap is immoral? Because 99% of the time, the person doing the shooting probably doesn't want their kneecaps to be shot in return. It can be socially agreed upon by all parties that shot kneecaps are a no no. With or without government. Why? Because it's harm outweighs anything else. Because it is something that can be measured and agreed upon without any refutable doubt. I don't want my kneecap blown off. I doubt you do too.
My friend, who is a male and has been working in the pornography world for 12 years now, has a wife, children, benefits, and a generally successful social life within the community. There are thousands like him in the adult entertainment business who all work hours out of their day just like everyone else.
Their entertainment is focused solely on the adult audience. In fact, common laws which were decided upon as a group and considered morally right when it comes to minors makes sure of this. These laws I agree with. There is nothing wrong with limiting a child to adult material. Regardless of what it actually is. Whether that be entertainment, items of consumption in one form or another, or even things like being able to rent a car or hotel room.
And I have looked up the so called "harm" pornography causes. And I have found very little. If you have such sources I would ask that you site them instead of simply saying, "if you care to look them up.". I have sited a very good source of information on the subject. Penn & Teller are no sages. And for you to say so amuses me because they would never refer to themselves as that either.
They are normal human beings who just see past bigotry and have the means to do something about it. Hence the title of the show.
Though I believe I made my point rather well, I am not here to discuss with you the philosophical understanding of ethics. I am here to say that, "Moral right to call pornography filth", is something only two kinds of people would say. A bigot, or someone who is ignorant. Most of the time it is a mix but I don't like to jump to that right away. Ignorance is excusable and expected. Without ignorance there would be no need to remedy that and gain knowledge. Bigotry however is absolutely uncalled for and has no place in a community who has accepted the motto, "I am going to Love and Tolerate the Sh*t out of you."
So please, if you would care to list the reasons or cite your sources giving a reasonable, observed, and measurable list of facts that proves calling pornography filth is morally correct, do so. Otherwise, it would simply be what I said. An opinion of some that is trying to become more than it should. Moral codes are something we as intelligent beings should follow for not only our sake, but for the sake of those around us. Labeling Pornography as filth should not be on that ever important list.
As for your sources, unless I am mistaken, I doubt they had access to pornography on the scale we do now. Unfortunately, they are of no help in this regard as their teachings are based solely on the definition, not on the specific subject. And personally, I prefer Socrates. ^_~
>>244261
heheheh...you are absolutely right.
Not the place for this.
Sorry yall! Should have read that sooner. I just feel silly.
>>243734 Oh God Freakazoid! Best show of the 90s.
>>244347
P-P-P-Pwnage! Wow.
*cough* Friendly Uncle *cough cough*