In Which I Spend Way Too Much Time Playing Armchair Psychologist With "Make New Friends But Keep Discord", And Arrive At The Prognosis of "Shipping" · 7:54am May 19th, 2015
In my previous blogpost I posited the following two conclusions about the recent episode:
A) that the intended interpretation was a Discord/Fluttershy/Tree Hugger love triangle shipfic, aimed at our demographic. Platonic interpretations of the episode work well enough for the target demographic, but don't hold up well to fridge logic. And B) under the working premise that this was a wink-wink-nudge-nudge shipping episode, it was not handled particularly well.
Premise B is entirely contingent on Premise A, therefore I shall start with that.
Now, it's unreasonable in an episode analysis to claim any sort of ironclad logical reasoning. Nevertheless, in order to showcase why I feel that Premise A holds, my argument will mimic that of a proof by contradiction—I shall start by assuming that there is an entirely platonic explanation for what's going on here, analyze the episode as such, and see where things start to fall apart. I just want to be clear up-front that even though I'm structuring my argument as such, I have no delusions about producing a straight-up logical contradiction, merely some incongruities that don’t play nicely with Occam’s Razor. Hopefully you'll see where I'm going with this in a bit.
Stop snickering.
So, we start with Premise A': Discord, Fluttershy, and Tree Hugger all view each other completely platonically. Assuming this premise to be true, we'll see how far it can lead us.
The entire premise of the episode is that Discord is upset with Fluttershy and Tree Hugger. The incident stems from Fluttershy not inviting Discord to the Grand Galloping Gala. Discord becomes increasingly angry, being passive aggressive to Fluttershy and taking out his anger on Tree Hugger. Even after Discord secures his own passage to the Grand Galloping Gala, these feelings escalate rather than subside. Discord goes so far as to assure Fluttershy at the end that he felt abandoned over the Gala ticket incident, and this is true, but the growing insecurity speaks to something deeper.
The logical conclusion to draw from this is that Discord is jealous, but about what precisely? We might assume that Discord is jealous that Fluttershy has a new friend, and that Discord desires exclusivity. It's worth noting that this does not conflict with our premise! (See? My shipping goggles are removable!) Discord has repeatedly been shown to be impetuous, and to have a very tenuous grasp on friendship since Fluttershy recently introduced it to him. It's not uncommon for children (or as Tatsurou points out in the other thread, individuals with autism, Asperger’s, and other such conditions) to be very possessive of their friends, due to their difficulty of fully empathizing with the other friend. Discord sees Tree Hugger playing with Fluttershy, and becomes angry at her for taking “his” best friend away. Perhaps that’s not the makings of the healthiest friendship, but it's plausibly in-character, and it’s not particularly fair to blame Discord for his lack of empathy at this point in his arc. However, it's not quite that simple... Aren't you forgetting the Mane Six? The ponies that Fluttershy had clearly established as friends upon meeting Discord in S2? Including Rainbow Dash, the childhood friend? Including Rarity, who canonically has regular spa dates with Fluttershy? If this was simply a desire for exclusive friendship, Discord should have reacted similarly against the other Mane Six, yet we've never really seen any strong signs of resentment there. So we're not quite at our answer yet.
Luckily, some additional clues are dropped on us. Fluttershy mentions repeatedly that Tree Hugger is so very funny. (Annoyingly, this is an informed trait, since aside from being an amusing stereotype, she doesn't deliver any jokes on her own. No, the final line at the end about "hugging from a place of authenticity" doesn't count as a joke made by Tree Hugger; it was part of her stereotype. We laughed at that line, but it's doubtful Fluttershy or anypony at the Gala would laugh at that, since that implies laughter at Tree Hugger's expense). We're also shown that Fluttershy finds Discord to be very funny. (While this felt plausible, it hadn’t really been cemented in previous episodes. It appeared in this episode and then was immediately used to fuel the episode's conflict.) Right before the Smooze becomes unstoppable, we see a montage of Discord emulating a bunch of famous stand-up comedians, right after shooting a death glare in Tree Hugger’s direction.
Based on all this, it seems fair to infer that Discord places a lot of value in his ability to make Fluttershy laugh. In his mind, this was a key feature of their friendship. It was an aspect she repeatedly rewarded him for, by genuinely laughing along. It boosted his own self-confidence, and established in his mind that he had a "role" in the friendship. I think that many of us can relate to this—those of us who are “the funny girl” or “the smart girl” or “the sweet-hearted girl” in our circle of friends. A role provides identity and structure to the group dynamic, which can be comforting. When another pony arrived on the scene who also made Fluttershy laugh, he felt rejected and his self-confidence wavered. Compare with Pinkie Pride, where Cheese Sandwich's arrival sent Pinkie into a depression, and then eventually into a Goof-Off to re-earn Rainbow's favor. This sentiment is echoed in the fight at the end between Discord and Fluttershy; he sees the Grand Galloping Gala invite as abandonment, a sign that he's been replaced, not merely by any old pony but by one who can make her laugh.
So Discord was jealous that Tree Hugger could make his BFF laugh, and that she no longer had use for him. If this theory explains everything, then we're home free. Does it?
Why did Discord invite the Smooze as his Plus One? Discord tells Fluttershy that the Smooze is living proof that he has had friends long before meeting Fluttershy, though he know that's a lie, between the plot of Keep Calm and Flutter On, and his neglect of the Smooze in this episode. But even if that were the truth, why would it matter? We already established that Fluttershy has other friends whom Discord does not find threatening, so it's logical to expect Fluttershy wouldn't be threatened by the Smooze. It's possible that Discord predicted that the Smooze would throw a wrench into the Gala's plans, but that's needlessly convoluted; as the Spirit of Chaos, he could very easily meddle with the Gala directly. It could be possible that this was some attempt to impress Fluttershy, hoping that the chaos would make her laugh (she was shown in Keep Calm and Flutter On to give Discord's chaos a chance, so it's plausible she'd find humor in it, much like Discord.) But none of Discord's dialogue suggest that he's trying to get Fluttershy to laugh at the Smooze’s antics. Rather, his dialogue ties back to making Fluttershy jealous that he has another, cooler friend. Just like she has another, cooler friend. It doesn't make a lot of sense with what we've previously established with Discord valuing humor.
Of course, this scene is particularly damning. The camera emphasizes Fluttershy making physical contact with Tree Hugger, and as a direct result, Discord becomes infuriated and launches into his stand-up routine. Without the aid of shipping goggles, why would physical contact between two platonic friends be threatening to Discord? Platonic physical contact can mean different things in different cultures, but we've repeatedly been shown group-hug after group-hug in this show. Playing Devil's Advocate, I suppose I can argue that even in the platonic sense and even in the pony universe, physical contact does convey closeness. Unless you're Pinkie Pie, you generally don't hug strangers. So, the physical contact could be an affirmation of their friendship, which Discord found threatening.
...And therefore, he burns green with jealousy? I'm not really seeing it. At this point, I don't have a satisfying platonic explanation, but by all means, feel free to suggest your own.
But that's just Discord, and he was ruined by his reformation, and the show writers don't know how to use him, and bla bla bla. Let's look at Fluttershy instead. Certainly she would hold up better to scrutiny? Again, we'll start with our assumed Premise A', and use that to find her core motivation.
Unfortunately, as this is a plot based on misunderstanding, we spend the middle arc looking at Fluttershy from the outside. Mostly, a lot of giggling and assuring the viewer that Tree Hugger is quite funny. So let's skip that for now, and hop back to the beginning. Fluttershy establishes, very innocently, that she assumed that Discord already had his own ticket (and FWIW, she turns out to be correct). None of the Mane Six bothered to invite one another as their Plus Ones, knowing that they had their own tickets, and similarly Fluttershy made other plans. The CMC were invited already, Pinkie was inviting Maud, and Twilight was Celestia's Plus One, so instead Fluttershy decided to bring a new friend that she'd made on her own off-camera adventure. They both liked rare creatures, an interest which none of the Mane Six really share to the same degree, so this was a great opportunity to bond and discuss!
Fast forward to the tail end of the episode, where Discord grabs her friend and threatens to toss her into an alternate dimension, like ya do. Fluttershy snaps at Discord, telling him that he's way out of line, explaining how he misinterpreted the situation, and insisting that Discord apologize to her friend. And on first viewing, I really liked this reaction! As close friends, similar to her "your winter is going to be petless" comment from earlier in the season, Fluttershy understands now that friends don't always need to sugarcoat and soften the blow. Close friends can be honest, sometimes brutally so, because they care. If strangers will just lie and downplay the situation to avoid an awkward confrontation, who else can you trust to tell you the truth, other than your close friends? It's a bit of AJ's line in Rarity Takes Manehatten, "Yeah you were pretty awful", but with Fluttershy taking her Breezie lesson to heart, it works in my mind as a form of character growth.
So, at least Fluttershy checks out fine, right? Well...
Why did Fluttershy not react sooner? Discord was acting irregular in all of their encounters, from storming out of their tea session, to tearing open a hole in the fabric of reality. At no point did the Element of Kindness take notice or reach out to see if he was hurting. But let's be fair here—the Elements have never been ironclad definitions of the Mane Six's character. They've deviated or even reneged on their Elements on a number of occasions. Just because Fluttershy is kind, doesn't mean that she's a mind reader. Maybe she simply missed that Discord's reactions signified something deeper. Except, if you claim that, then you also concede that she was slapped with the Idiot Ball this episode. We frequently see other ponies looking on with "oh shit" looks, like these scenes here.
Even Tree Hugger, who spends the Smooze incident with a dopey grin, gets an "Oh jeez, he's hurting" look on her face at the end, when Discord discusses his feeling of abandonment. Yet Fluttershy didn't have an inkling before then? Quote, "I don't understand why you're doing this. We were all getting along so well." It's not definitive, but the lack of empathy seems unlike her.
When exactly did they discuss rare creatures? Okay, before you accuse me of nitpicking... By day I'm a computer programmer. The number of friends who I discuss programming with is actually quite small, though. My friendships are definitely not defined by my trade, and as such, I'm not stating that Tree Hugger needed to be spewing nature facts 24/7. But outside of hippie tropes and a resolution that was as much meditation as it was rare creature insight, we're not told what she knows about critters. Most of the bits we get from Tree Hugger are actually meditation related, auras and chakras and the like. We're also told that she's funny. A lot. By Fluttershy. Now I promised I'd keep the shipping goggles off, and am looking for plausible platonic explanations, and so I guess this gets hoof-waived as "she has character depth"? But the lack of humor and/or nature talk on-screen doesn't help.
And then there's this scene. Tree Hugger says some hippie stuff. Fluttershy clutches her chest and says, "Wow." Discord bumps into her, somewhat roughly, and introduces himself. Unlike RD at the previous Gala, there is no overwhelming ambient background noise, yet Fluttershy does not notice, and even proceeds to ask Tree Hugger a leading question. Discord clears his throat, repeatedly, until Fluttershy finally looks his way. Even sans shipping goggles, it's undeniable that Fluttershy was enraptured with Tree Hugger. And such a thing is platonically possible—you can meet someone with amazing life experiences, who's a captivating storyteller, who really sucks you in. And that's plausible here, too. But if that's the case, in some ways Discord is vindicated. A la Spike in the previous Gala, while it's true that Fluttershy was off enjoying herself, she was neglecting another friend to do so. He does respond by throwing a childish tantrum, but she dismisses his fears as preposterous. As I said before, tough love can be a good thing, but Fluttershy doesn't really seem to have the moral high ground here, while the narrative seems to imply otherwise.
So... the explanation that we're left with is that Fluttershy snubbed him for a pony that was cool. Discord felt that this meant Fluttershy was trading up for a cooler friend, which was only partially correct—as the end of the episode establishes, you're allowed to have multiple friends, so no malice was intended on Fluttershy’s part, but Discord took it that way. But she did think Tree Hugger was cool, intensely so, to the point where she turned a blind eye to his acting out, and was literally the last pony to notice his discomfort. Discord lashed out in a number of immature ways, largely due to his poor understanding of friendship, so the thing about painting the Smooze as this cool friend, without actually caring about him, was intentionally written to be a half-baked plan.
Or. Discord had romantic feelings for Fluttershy, and assumed the feeling was mutual. It was not. Fluttershy took a date to the Grand Galloping Gala. Seething with jealousy, Discord brings the Smooze in order to make her jealous in turn, but she's too smitten to notice. His jealousy peaks when Fluttershy displays a sign of physical affection. Fluttershy at first doesn't understand why he's acting out like this, but when he explains, she's upset with him for being overly presumptuous. Everypony around them, though, even Tree Hugger, catch the signals of a jilted lover.
Isn't that simpler? Doesn't it offer a clearer rationalization for everypony's actions? I've given the platonic explanation plenty of thought, but it just feels strung together arbitrarily, and requires a lot of apologist explanations in order for it to survive scrutiny. Certainly though, if I'm missing something obvious, do call me out on it.
Premise B, by comparison, is a much shorter breakdown, though much more rooted in personal opinion. For sake of argument, we assume Premise A, that the show writers intended for a romantic interpretation of Discord's feelings. (Even if you personally disagree, we can treat it as a hypothetical for sake of argument.) This makes it awfully likely that there's a fundamental misunderstanding between Fluttershy and Discord. If there was not a misunderstanding, then this infers that Fluttershy was breaking up with Discord via inviting some other mare to the GGG. And then she scolds Discord at the end, so the narrative implies she has moral superiority. That's fine for fanfic territory, I suppose, but even in a wink-wink-nudge-nudge sense, I doubt the writers would include content of the Mane Six doing bad things and getting rewarded for it. I mean, probably. So then, Discord's whole arc is "22 minutes of angsting over misreading the signals"? Fluttershy's whole arc is "dude, I'm not into you. I have a girlfriend who lives in Canada?" This shipping goggle version, while perhaps simpler per Occam's Razor, certainly isn't any less uncomfortable to watch, as his unrequited love is summarily rejected. Is it any wonder that I spent so much time playing Devil's Advocate, fighting for a platonic interpretation that made sense?
Dunno. Much like the Bloom and Gloom review I did, I found a number of aspects off-putting. And I don't want people thinking I'm being too down on the show, since in my mind S5 has been terrific overall, and Tanks for the Memories is in my top 5 list of MLP episodes. Nevertheless, getting this all written on paper certainly helps me contextualize it all, and getting your replies and counter-arguments helps challenge my own assumptions. Either way, I’m curious to know what you think!
Now I'm starting to think you're being serious, and it worries me. :(
My thoughts:
Because, going off of your (accurate, I'd say) presumption that Discord considers being able to make Fluttershy laugh a core component of their relationship, he thought the Smooze would be a funny +1 to bring. When he's not making so much of an effort to be nice (read as: when he's jealous, in this case), Discord's style of humor tends towards being mean-spirited and not so much concerned with how his pranks affect other people, so in the throes of this extreme reaction, he reverts back a bit to his old style. And on that note, I'd say the extremity of that reaction doesn't stem from any romantic aspirations, but rather because--in light of Tree Hugger apparently being hilarious to Fluttershy--he thinks he's being replaced. The Mane 6 are friends with Fluttershy, but they all fit to different aspects of her life and personality. On the other side of things, Fluttershy's all Discord has in terms of close mortal friends. Fluttershy doesn't see Tree Hugger as a big deal, because she has numerous friends and, as such, doesn't consider each one to be as uniquely special (which is different from not valuing them, just sort of akin to how time seems to progress faster when we're adults because each new year represents less relative time over our entire lifespans). Compare that to Discord, who loses 100% of his close friends if Fluttershy were to bail on him, and his overreaction has a lot more context.
Because she's an idiot.Sorry, personal headcanon coming out again. More than likely, it's because she assumes the best of people and, again, it really doesn't occur to her that Discord could see things like this. In a way, this is a learning experience for her as well, because now she's reminded once again of how fragile Discord's sense of friendship is and how, given his (duh) chaotic nature, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to err on the side of caution and/or excessive explanation with him. Plus, y'know, if any of the Mane 6 were going to challenge Twilight in the department of "really, seriously not getting how interpersonal interaction works", *stares pointedly atIdiotFluttershy*.Oh, Pav's posted that analysis. Well, I'm sure this'll be an insightful, but fairly short read...
i.imgur.com/yAYfql6.jpg
3080365
I can fart this out in an evening, but I haven't updated any of my fics in months. At this point, I'm convinced it's a gypsy curse.
3080209
But no, my first viewing of the episode was full of me repeating out loud "There... has to be a platonic explanation here, right?" and then flinching at the Fluttershy-touches-TreeHugger scene. And let's even avoid cheap shots like Discord's line about "I can't have you interfering with my relationship with Fluttershy"
Hate to burst a bubble in your satire theory... Like, trust me, I understand that this is an entirely absurd premise, and that's why there was a bit of tongue-in-cheek as I had flashes of self-awareness—much like when I was pointing at a freeze-frame of Celestia, debating if her pretty multicolored tail could fit underneath her pretty gala dress, upon which I was struck with an overwhelming sense that I am wasting my life.
Shh, PP, it's okay. Look on the bright side. If I'm certifiably insane, then poking a hole in this blogpost should be trivial for you, right?
3080211
I could definitely understand Discord falling back into old habits and essentially losing sight of what he's doing. He had a plan to make a point to Fluttershy, but when he arrives on the scene and becomes legit upset, it's easier just to neg Tree Hugger and, y'know what, screw it, portal to alternate dimension.
Hmmmm... On some levels, romance is just a very close friend. Barring polygamy, you only have one of these friends at a time, so a breakup means losing 100% of these friends. Discord is also in a situation where he's poised to lose 100% of his friends. Therefore, the symptoms he conveys would be largely identical to romantic jealousy, even though his motives are purely platonic. Now that would explain a lot of the subtext here.
Now, in fairness, I did concede the possibility of an Idiot Ball plot. MLP certainly hasn't been above taking that option in a few episodes, so perhaps I'm just holding this one episode to unfair scrutiny. However, I'm going to reference my screenshots above, again. If we argue that this was just an Idiot Ball plot, yet other ponies took notice first, then the corollary is that Fluttershy is less socially aware than a pony who tried to decorate a friend's room with her own trophies, a collection of children who have been searching for deeper meaning in their lives for years unsuccessfully, and a mare who was stoned off her ass the entire episode.
3080509
No, because I'm not good at that, especially with insane people. :B
All I can say is, being jealous of other friends' new friends is definitely a Thing (the rest of the mane cast don't matter to Discord because they pretty much openly hate him; so he ignores them, accepts that Fluttershy wants to spend time with them because she's his only real friend and he's capable of respecting her to at least some degree, and hogs her for himself whenever she's not; and yes, Twilight is trying to be his friend as well, but she's not doing a very good job of it, so they have room to grow still), and Fluttershy has a tendency to see the best in people, to a fault, which leaves her often times oblivious to bad things happening. Throwing Tree Hugger into another dimension was the last straw because it was outlandish enough for Flutters to really sit up and take notice. Like, it's a couple degrees of "past the line" there, and there was no way she could really ignore it or brush it off.
Also it can't be shipping because she's with Bulk Biceps.3080526
Yes, but I'm not insane because Fluttershy told me so herself. *brushes the open air next to him*
Mmm... I don't buy it. Sure, he hates the rest of the Mane Six, but he also hates Tree Hugger, even openly mocking her name upon first mention by Fluttershy (new headcanon: Discord is aware as we are that pony names can be quite silly. This tends to go over ponies' heads.) If "I don't like you and you're stealing time from my BFF" was all this was, then Rarity would've been portal-tossed by the third or fourth spa date. Discord finds Tree Hugger to be uniquely threatening in some manner. That's why I started going down the "I'm important because I make her laugh" angle.
Fix'd
Y'know... this was a vastly more entertaining read than most of the recent fics I've plowed through.
3080547
Now I know you're crazy.
But really, it's the difference between "you were friends before I was friends with Fluttershy and she makes time for you and me" and "NEW FRIEND, WARNING, DANGER, NEW FRIEND WILL TAKE ALL OF MY TIME BECAUSE I AM LOW DRACONEQUUS ON THE TOTEM POLE". I mean, this is all reading into and assuming things about the characters, but it makes sense to me that the situation is entirely platonic. :B
3080672
The broad outlines make sense, sure. But under close examination, the specifics fall apart. If this is meant to be a platonic friendship, Discord's way of expressing his displeasure certainly invokes a lot of Jilted Lover tropes.
3081801
The two rub elbows. :B
3080526 That's a good point about Fluttershy. People who are complaining that Fluttershy can't possibly be that oblivious or naive seem to have forgotten her gleefully humming along to "Our Town" a few episodes back.
3081976
It's a core component of her character that's never changed nor really gone away. (It's what makes her great.)
3082876 Agreed, Fluttershy is one of the most potent anti-cynicism forces the show has.