Season 5 opener... it sucks! · 8:09pm Apr 6th, 2015
How the season opener should have ended:
Dear princess Celestia. Somepony tried to brainwash me after stealing my cutie-mark.
Dear Twilight, give me coordinates, and clear everypony you don't want burned alive from a 20 mile radius.
Seriously though, the show's writers are going off in an extremely dark direction. I'll be the first to admit that I get upset over rape, mind control, and torture (It's a thing. Don't ask. And for god's sake don't try to defend it to me. I don't care about your fetishes, but if you like that sort of thing, just unfollow me now.)
Taking away cutiemarks is one thing which I'm already against, not to mention the fact that they always get caught by 'surprise' or whatnot. Stupid writers. But that's not where it ends. No, they decide to include psychological torture as well. I don't know who let these people have any creative input, but they should be fired. Out of a cannon. Into a ravine.
This is the sort of thing that makes me want to stop writing for the pony fandom, and the worst thing is that the parts I liked about it (the interactions between the six, and Spike's funny stuff) are still totally there for some parts of it.
At this point, I'm very hesitant to watch any more of season five. I'll probably still write, but it's becoming harder for me to enjoy it with all this fucked up shit going on.
Starlight Glimmer is officially on my shit-list and will only ever appear in a story if I do decide to horribly maim and kill her.
Oh, and why didn't Twilight and the others just fight when they were let out of their 'prison'? Just stupid.
It's just the season opener. I doubt they're going to put that sort of thing in a 22 minute standalone episode and leave themselves with no time to resolve it.
Ain't nobody keeping you here; just as well if you feel like joking about killing the writers just because they wrote an episode you didn't like.
2953522 Read it again. He blamed the people who had them write it, not the writers.
I don't think that Starlight Glimmer's actions were presented very sympathetically at all in The Cutie Map -- they were depicted as horrible, and the Mane Six helped to liberate that village from years of terrible tyranny. We still don't know if Starlight will wind up redeemed or dead ... Amon of The Legend of Korra, a similar character, winds up apparently blown to bits.
Yes, the story's very dark. But then, a lot of darkness was implied in the other two-parters. Consider Nightmare Moons millennium of madness and Celestia's of loneliness. Consider Discord's tyranny and centuries spent in stone. Consider the cruelty of Chrysalis and Sombra. And Tirek basically did the exact same thing as Starlight Glimmer ... and on a vaster scale. So this isn't something entirely new to the series.
2953540
Ooooh, okay. He meant a totally different group of people, so I guess it's okay to daydream about their murders.
Do take note of my sarcastic tone of voice.
Well, I liked it, but then again, I read it as "Hey, Tumblr and Twitter! *pffffft*" with a side-order of Harrison Bergeron.
2953549 Ah yes, your human sarcasm. Like saying someone should be fired out of a cannon, no? I have heard of this thing you speak of. Tell me, do you use it often? Do you recognize it in others?
2953662 Good answer.
As for why they didn't just fight when they were let out in the mornings: The loss of their Cutie Marks also took away a large amount of their personal strength/s, Twilight was reduced to being a caster barely above Sweetie Bell, AJ who could normally buck that simple wood door half way across town couldn't even force it open, Fluttershy who can normally understand exactly what animals are saying couldn't even get the gist of what the bird responded to her request with, (not shown until a bit later but) RD who can normally fly faster than a train with ease couldn't even fly as fast as the others could run (AJ was also weaker than normal in this regard). In addition to this individual loss of ability they were severely outnumbered. Had they been at their normal levels they could have handled that number of foes but in their weakened state they knew they'd be screwed if they even considered trying something like that.
I know that feel when something rubs you the wrong way like that. You just want to stop and leave. But this was only the season opener; I hope the show will continue on as normal afterward.
[unrelated note] BEST QUOTE: "Tweets doesn't make sense anymore."
Well, Sombra was not too dissimiliar, and he got blown to smithereens, so I would say Glimmer had best watch out.
Unfortunately she had gotten herself good and escaped before Twilight could have called for exterminatus. Bet she is Equestria's most wanted tho'.
I would hope that you choose not to leave the fandom, and that you do continue writing. The fandom needs writers of all genres, from those who prefer dark, to those who love to write words ffilled with warm anf fuzzy feelings, and everything in between. I know you do write well, having read at least two of your stories and thoroughly enjoyed them.
That being said, I myself like the darker overtones the show sometimes displays. Especially those that have a feel similar to a Tom Clancy novel.
Hard to get any more Clancy than that! (Come on! He nuked Denver, Colorado in The Sum of All Fears even!)
It was a great episode, well written with good characters and an interesting premise.
It was NOT a good PONY episode. It left me feeling anxious and creeped out, not happy and content like I've come to expect from pony.
You imply some interesting notions about story telling here, Karrakaz. While I don't feel nearly as strong about the portrayal of things like torture in the opener--and we're both welcome to our own feelings on the matter, of course--I think we can at least agree that the episode didn't approve of the torture. In other words, it depicts it being a bad thing, and not a good one. I think that's a fair, unbiased statement to make. I also think you would want a negative portrayal as opposed to a good one, because as you said you detest these things.
However, it does depict them, which makes me want to ask: do you believe that stories should not depict immoral actions at all?
It would have been nice to see them demonstrate all the ways that their marks don't define them. For example, even without magic, Twilight is incredibly intelligent.
2954235
Depends on the setting. In a universe like 'Fallout' it makes sense, in Equestria... not so much.
2954235 What bothers me more than the reprogramming attempts, and the kidnapping (and those bother me plenty) is the simple fact that a princess, not long after the country was attacked by a giant fucking goattaur, has no royal guards.
Think about that. Cadance, Luna, Celestia, every time they travel they have a minimum of two guards.
Granted, there are a lot of these cultists. But we've seen when you lack your cutie mark, you suck. You are weak, and kinda pathetic. Twilight and her friends were overwhelmed by one unicorn with a stick, and her horde of sucky ponies.
This is not good writing. Back before Twilight went super-saiyin she and her friends fought off the changeling army. Now they can't defeat the shambling uncutied?
If they are that off their game, they need a guard squadron on standby for these cutie missions.
2953543
There is a difference between the last four season's "implied" and this season's drilled into your skull for minutes on end in full view of all.
A big difference.
The former takes skill, finesse, and an appreciation of both subtlety and thematic
integrityconsistency. Abandon those, and you get... well, what we got a couple days ago.2954589
Not to defend the episodes or anything, but... I would think that the EoH would be guards enough.
Though I could see your argument being more viable after this little escapade.
2954653
I'd be willing to stick all of those compliments to the beginning of S5. The episode is 'Cults are bad, as seen through MLP' - and it does that very, very well, given it's also cleaving towards 'Present this in a way the target audience can understand'
Like the too-big smiles may be in your face for an adult, but it's exactly the sort of cue that's great for a 5 year old to set up 'This is weeeeiiiirrrd' And I mean, the Wedding arguably went just as dark if not darker.
I respect that, hey, the OP here has things that they are very sensitive to and do not want to view. That's fine! But - I don't agree that simply by virtue of 'this episode included things I am very strongly upset by', that makes it a -bad- episode.
2954751
That's just it. I don't think it's bad. At all. I think the premiere is, objectively, superbly executed.
But I also think Friendship is Witchcraft is, objectively, superbly executed.
Neither are my preferred version of pony, is all. Both upset the hell out of me. And on a certain level, it really does hurt to see that the creators are indeed willing to go in this direction. It's not comparable to the older premieres/finales at all.
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Alright then. ^.^ Personally, I don't feel it's unfitting for the setting of Equestria (though I may have felt that way after only watching season one), but obviously this is something that varies greatly from person to person. I wasn't disturbed by the semi-mind control or psychological torture, but I am sorry that others didn't enjoy it. As a fellow fan I'm very familiar with that feeling and it stinks. When a show you love seems to be going in a totally errant direction it just sucks, plain and simple.
And yeah, I agree that much of the writing was pretty sub par. The only thing that really saved the opener for me was, yet again, the main six and their interactions and funny and enjoyable character moments. The plot and surrounding developments were pretty unimpressive most of the time, imo, like Twilight and the others getting overpowered by Starlight Glimmer and some hokey townsfolk. I mean, no one thought to tackle Starlight during the ten seconds it took to rip off Twilight's cutie mark? Sigh.
The royal guards are a fair point, though personally I wouldn't like such a development.
2954771
Which is a fair reaction to have, if it's upsetting. Yet, at the same time, I suppose I don't really see it as...well, deviating, really. We've had DT&SS being utter beasts about Cutie Marks since S1. We've had plenty of implied economic injustice as seen through both the nobility/upper crust, and Filthy Rich's dealings with the Apple Family. We've had world-ending apocalypses threaten everything, and...well, now we have a cult leader whose cult is destroyed around her.
Yes, it's intense, but I feel it's no more intense than when Twilight lost hope after Discording, or when Celestia was thrown down by Chrysalis, or when when Sombra enslaved the entire Crystal Empire. The duration of intensity is definitely longer, though - I personally like it, but am sad to see it doesn't work in the case of others. Still, that must happen from time to time; Celestia knows there are episodes I very much dislike.
Okay, wait, hang on...
...yeah, alright, you're the guy who's writing the super cutesy story with Celestia taking up the role of a mother figure for Twilight, after essentially snatching the filly away from her parents. You also ship the heck out of them in other stories which, frankly? Gives me the heebie jeebies. That just bellows 'sexual predator' to me, and yet... I haven't unfollowed you.
Telling folks to unfollow you because they're not creeped out by the same things you are is, quite honestly, not a sentiment that deserves respect, especially when you're writing stories that can easily be construed as 'ancient pedo goddess grooms an innocent unicorn filly to be eternally hers'. That's always been the vibe I've gotten from the whole Celestia/Twilight pairing and your work persistently smacks of it, but I don't feel like you ought to be chased out of Fimfiction for that, nor does it keep me from reading works of yours that don't contain those themes.
In fact, my repeated exposure to such shipping is what's made me more able to tolerate it. At this point I mostly roll my eyes when I see it, because getting tiny, controlled doses of things that squick you out is an excellent way to build up a resistance to them, often to the point where they will (at most!) just make you mildly uncomfortable.
Do bear in mind, I'm not trying to malign you or your work, here, I just feel like you could do with some kind of perspective. The themes presented in the episode neither bother me nor arouse me in the slightest, and as such it's rather difficult for me to find them offensive or alarming when a fandom writer is publishing stories about... well, see above. I'm sure you'll feel that I've misrepresented your work, and I'm sure I'll get lots of grief for saying all of that, but it's genuinely the vibe I get from those stories which, let me be very clear here, is NOT a roundabout way of calling you a 'bad writer'. I actually think you're very skilled and capable, and that you can write very convincing children, a trait that most writers do not possess... which, of course, is why your Celly/Twi stories creep me out so much. Even so, I don't think you shouldn't write them! Rather, the fact that those themes bother me is my own personal issue, and it's up to me to avoid the things I don't like... not up to everyone else to provide me with a 'safe space' away from ideas I find distasteful. Further, if I didn't make a point of being tolerant to those elements that I don't like, I wouldn't have ever discovered a number of my favorite stories, Under Her Wings among them.
As to it not being in the spirit of pony, well... pony hasn't been about slice of life since season one. SoL stories have remained as an option for the writers to fall back on, yes, but they're not the focus any more, as things are taking on a much more serious tone the longer the series continues. This is actually pretty common for long running comedies, so I don't really see why the shift is so shocking, particularly given that 'big' arcs have always contained themes you find distasteful. Discord, Crysalis, Sombra, Tirek... Chrysalis in particular is all about mind control and 'rape', stealing away the love intended for someone else. Why, then, didn't you feel compelled to leave the fandom when that came up? Trixie's return involed the loss of bodily autonomy in at least one scene, that's pretty rape-y given that 'loss of control' is one of the biggest reasons that rape messes people up. Sombra was explicitely about slavery, and Discord was, well... Discord. None of these are especially surprising to find in a show directed at children, they're all common ways to show that someone's a villain without having them throwing punches and being verbally abusive, which the censors wouldn't allow.
Anyway, I'll be interested in seeing how you'll respond to all this. Hopefully I haven't pissed you off too much.
2955130 Well, you're talking about an immortal being, so any lovers she might take will have that same problem. But to address your primary concern:
That's true, but what Karra is saying is that he has issues with those themes, and people who attempt to defend them to him. He is aware it's unreasonable, but he can't actually change his reaction to it. So if someone enjoys those themes, don't bring it up. And if you feel you absolutely must talk about your enjoyment of such things, it's best to unfollow him, because there will be conflict.
As for a safe space, that's knighty's department. This site would have fewer problems if he could implement a filter for people as they do in derpibooru. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be happening.
2955424
"He is aware it's unreasonable,"
At no point has this been said. At all. However, "but if you like that sort of thing, just unfollow me now" most certainly has been said, which is a very, very poor way of handling a difference of opinion. I was just trying to provide motivation to the author (and anyone reading the comment) to leave their comfort zone via anecdotal evidence as it is, fundamentally, good for a person to do so.
The only 'issue' I really have is that this is lurking just behind the curtain in all of those shipping stories, which makes talking about how awful it is for anyone to like rape or mind control a bit... hypocritical, for lack of a better word. Particularly galling is the fact that supporters of such themes have been characterized as being fetishists, as if the only defense for such things is the potential for a sexual thrill.
"So if someone enjoys those themes, don't bring it up. And if you feel you absolutely must talk about your enjoyment of such things, it's best to unfollow him, because there will be conflict."
Luckily, I'm not afraid of conflict. I am, however, profoundly uncomfortable with the idea of handling someone like they're made of glass. I frankly think it's insulting to make certain subjects verboten, regardless of who's going to be offended, and I cannot fathom why someone would insist that nobody ever talk about X in their vicinity, as though they might lose their mind.
I can see I've already got one downvote on the other comment, I'm sure I'll gather quite a few more before the day is done, but, eh... I think this needs to be said. That link up there pretty perfectly encapsulates what I see whenever someone writes that pair. And again, I don't let that bother me, because even though it used to make me profoundly uncomfortable, I let myself be exposed to it and, with time, got over it. I still get the creeps when it comes up, and that's probably never going to truly go away, but it's hardly enough to make me shun people who like it.
EDIT: Whoopsidoodle, made a typo.
2955130 If that's truly the feeling you get from those stories then I'm sorry you feel that way, and it has never been my intent to imply or show any of that.
That being said, there are things that I personally do not like (Bondage, watersports, tragedy, etc) and while I personally get upset over them I do not begrudge other people for having said fetishes. Rape and mindcontrol, however, are always at the expense of someone else (Non-conscent) and anyone that likes that stuff is someone I would never want to associate with in real life, and similarly for the internet.
So in short, you're right in some way, but for that stuff? I don't even want to try and would rather those people disappear from the face of the earth entirely.
2955567
I certainly can't begrudge you for feeling that way, but there is a distinct difference between wanting to read or view stories containing those themes and actually 'enjoying' them in a sexual manner. Many people enjoy pathos, or like being made to squirm in discomfort, rather similar to how some people may watch Fear Factor or watch Saw. The sense of dread, and the relief when it's over, can be very cathartic for some, and it does seem unkind to write off these people in the same stroke that you'd dismiss an actual abuser. After all, there are plenty of people who empathize with the victim, people who want to see them brought low so that they can then overcome whatever's happened, to live that tragedy and see that hope pver the course of a story.
In any case, I'm not trying to tell you it's wrong to feel how you feel. I know we can't control that. I just think you're painting perfectly normal people as sexual deviants, when in reality there are far, far more reasons to like something beyond "I get off to it." Fundamentally, that would be like me saying that "Anyone who ships Celly with Twi is a closet pedophile, and the world would be better off if they all went away!" It's untrue, and it's an awful way to characterize others who've done nothing wrong, and more to the point, I think you'd be profoundly offended by the implication. I know I bring that up a lot, but it's only because it's such an effective way to illustrate my point without venturing too far away from familiar territory.
I'm also, if I may say so, immensely pleased that you aren't the sort to just delete comments for disagreeing with you. I didn't expect to actually get an articulate response, so this is all a very pleasant surprise!
2955588
Makes it clear that I don't watch either of those shows doesn't it?
I can get behind bringing a character low and them overcoming it being cathartic, but to do so through rape or mind-control I will very much condemn. (especially in MLP, I don't seem to have as much of a problem with it in settings where such things are commonplace) Not only is it a cheap and creatively 'simple' solution for touching some heartstrings, but it also takes away a lot of the character's agency. Even after thinking it over I stand by my original point.
If people actually have a point and are somewhat polite about it, I try not to, though responding takes a lot out of me. Unlike you I don't generally do well with confrontation, and I sort of regret posting this blog.
i.imgur.com/xSMxaGM.jpg
2956952
Yes... well... Fuck you too motherfucker.
2957269 Did you need some time for Steel Resolve to formulate a response for you? We can wait, it's okay.
2957299
I'm not a very polite person. Steel helps me be polite for the most part. He's not here right now, so I'll tell you and all of your sorry idiotic friends that you can suck a dick and die in a fire.
Just hope I never meet you in real life.
2957305
Because you'd suddenly lose all sense of societal decency and attack him in a rage, thus getting yourself likely pummeled by police and imprisoned?
That would be a shitty outcome. If only there were some way, other than total avoidance, that you could do to prevent that outcome.
2957490
Well... perhaps. He wouldn't leave in anything but a body-bag though. I'm nothing if not thorough.
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2957299
Heya! So, uh, friendly reminder to all parties that it's generally not considered acceptable on Fimfiction to tell other users to "suck a dick and die in a fire." Trying to provoke responses like that from someone else is also generally inadvisable.
It'd probably be best for everyone involved in the argument to try and maintain a basic level of civility in the discussion, even if there are deep disagreements on the topic being discussed. Failing that, it may be better to agree to disagree and leave the matter at that. Whatever works best for you.
Have a nice day.
2957624 Thanks, Obs.
2957624
Is there some way to disallow some people to view my stories/blogposts? I would really appreciate such a feature right now.
2957676
There's no way to prevent other people from seeing your blogs, but Fimfiction does have a means of blocking other users from posting on your stories/blogposts or sending you PMs. You can block someone by pressing the Block button in the banner on their userpage.
2957685
Thanks, though I already knew that much. Do you think Knighty could code something like that, though? If I block someone, I generally don't want them to even read my writings.
2957713
Probably wouldn't happen, pending knighty's input on the subject. Discounting any philosophical objections, it'd be impossible to prevent people from just logging out for a sec and looking at your writing as a guest user.
2957723
Alright. Thanks anyway.
I myself really liked the opener, if only because it brought back memories of Harrison Bergeron and 1984. However, in my opinion it'd be slightly strange (and a bit antithetical) if the episode scenarios continued to go down this darker path.
I understand that some of the stuff shown in that episode was morally questionable, but I don't believe one should simply judge the entirety of the season based upon the premiere. It's like judging a book by its cover.
I, for one, hope that you won't stop writing. I'm sorry that this episode wasn't to your tastes at all, but I'd be thrilled if you could soldier on past your disgust. I mean, I just want to see more Sunny Scrolls...pretty please?
Well... Perhaps the reason they didn't fight was because they couldn't win? I mean... AJ couldn't buck down a door without her cutie mark. Twilight also didn't pull out any noteworthy magic (her barrier) until she got her cutie mark back. (I'm with you on Starlight though... throughout the entire episode the words 'creepy' and 'messed up' kept appearing in my head every time I saw her.)
Also, using brute force to solve the issue is hardly going to be an acceptable lesson to people watching the show(there are little kids watching too...I think). Personally, I find it better that the conflict was resolved not by the mane six going on a rampage but rather by the townsfolk revolting themselves. As opposed to an external force interfering, the inhabitants of 'Our Town' throw off their chains and shackles themselves once they realize that they have been lied to. More fulfilling that way.
The rest of Season 5 hasn't been dark at all. Castle Sweet Castle is adorable.