Oct
14th
2014
Estee
Joined 4th May, 2013 ·
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I get the impression that there's more of a story behind that post.
2531971
Since I first came to the site, I've gotten a few fairly vocal detractors. That, for all intents and purposes, is natural: no one's going to be universally accepted, and I've gone over most of the reasons why my style doesn't necessarily fit with the majority before this. But lately, the volume has picked up a bit. And today, I got this line in a bottom-of-the-ratings-scale story review:
"The weirdness of the writing is almost hypnotic."
I figure that's either Hatedom or Bile Fascination.
I think TCB gained a HateVerse at some point.
Ah, Soge's review. Well, that's one of your few stories that I haven't read, so I can't really comment on it. But in general, I do like how you're able to paint incredibly detailed pictures of situations with words, often in ways that I haven't thought of before. Which is why I've upvoted and/or favorited a good number of your stories.
2531991
I've never read a single TCB story.
I suddenly feel like I'm missing something.
It's an interesting question. I suspect the hatedom is more for you than the Continuum, but it's rather hard to dissociate the latter from the former. I don't get it, but then, I've never gotten the hate for the Conversion Bureau.
Well, it's going on the YMMV page, so it's subjective by definition. If anyone can say whether a hatedom exists for this continuity, it'd be you.
2532032
Gosh, that's comforting.
The counter there is that I would be too close to the situation for proper perspective.
Honestly, a small part of this is just my playing around within a degree of bemusement in the wake of that review. But... things have been picking up lately.
Must have been that perceived request for negative comments.
2531991
2532023
I guess in case of TCB it's a mix between Alternative Character Interpretation and Strawman Has A Point. Though actually, I've read maybe two TCB stories which were recursive fanfics of recursive fanfics – the general premise doesn't really work for me.
So, speaking of hate... let's just say I'm pretty much in the middle of some. (Because I'm still not supposed to link with this stuff. Ever.) And it's one of those weird positions where I know exactly what I want to say next, but I'm also aware that any reply at all will likely trigger escalation. I'm not exactly allergic to giving up the last word: post reply, let anger flood back, and not delete because I don't do that. I just don't know if silence means it stops there.
Can't win through answering because victory is impossible. Walking away is an option, but takes away the very temporary satisfaction of the reply. Not sure I want to see what an answer sets off.
On the bright side, that trope is getting clearer by the minute.
2532137
Letting it burn itself out may be your best option. Still, if the vitriol doesn't peter out even when you don't add to it, then you have nothing to lose in replying.
Also:
Yeah, sorry about that one. I was analyzing without considering the wider implications.
2532023 I'd recomend Redskin's Other Side of the Spectrum or Striker's United We Stand(abet you'll have to read Elements of Harmony and the Savior of Worlds first).
2532137
Consider the mentioning of your name here for example (6th question).
Well, if it's any consolation, I consider you one of the most intelligent writers of those here on Fimfic. Your eye for detail is amazing, and the complexity of the continuum that you have created is stunning. Seriously, you're one of the best.
I can only guess that some people don't like intelligent writing. They prefer simple things that they don't have to think about. Or maybe haters just hate, period. Doesn't matter what they hate, they just hate it, and the more popular and known you become, they more of these random haters you'll gain. There are also the "critiquists", who don't know anything about critique, but pretend to by finding something wrong with anything, including perfection if that were given to them ("It's too perfect," they'd say. "This is cliché!" they'd cry. And many do). The kinds of people who are better at pointing out mistakes in others rather than in themselves (I think all of us are guilty of this to some level). And perhaps there are some others with other reasons for not liking your stuff (trolling, OC's, presumed OOC's, it's a new style to them, etc... who knows?).
But hey that's the internet. One of the many places in the world where if you don't pander to the lowest common denominator, you get screwed by critics, haters, and stupid people. And if you do pander to the lowest common denominator, you still get screwed by critics, haters, and stupid people, it just happens a little less. Heck that's what life is like. Don't get discouraged, don't let it get to you. As you said, there is no victory in debating it with them. At the same time, there's no getting rid of it either. The hate and dislike will always be there. No matter who you are, no matter what you say, there's always someone who disagrees with you.
For example Pen Stroke, writer of the 4th most popular fic on this site, got and still gets a ton of hate because of Nyx. "Mary Sue! Mary Sue!" they all chanted in unison. Or for example the 1st most viewed story. Responses? "The writing is awful!", "Self insert! Cliché!", "So uncreative!". Do you know of any successful story that doesn't have at least one downvote? I don't. There will always be those people. "You shipped A with B! How could you?", "HoE? Seriously?", "I don't like that character!". Downvote, downvote, downvote. People will downvote anything nowadays.
So, in the end, my advice would be, ignore them, try to get along with them, perhaps even try to be friends with them. You don't have to do all that with all of them, but do what you can. Hopefully, they'll get bored and walk away, or they'll become good friends. Either of those options is better than having enemies.
You're an awesome writer, rising up in the ranks of popularity. Eventually the haters' comments will bore you, and won't have much of an effect anymore. They can't stop you from getting popular. If anything, they're helping you to do so. So don't worry about it that much. You'll be fine.
2532214
What a delightful response to Estee's worries! I read through this with an increasingly wide smile, as it touched on pretty much everything I was considering saying to Estee and said it very well. Very nicely - and, I might add, intelligently - done!
In response I suggest a slight alteration to your username: PiercingInsight
Light and laughter,
SongCoyote
For every few likes, there's always a dislike.
Whether it's for the story itself or the writer behind it varies from person to person.
I hate you because your writing makes me feel like an idiot whenever I read one of your stories, if only because my mind is too entrenched in a single rut and I can't link with new ideas very well, despite my mind being a hive of ideas that I can never put into words that satisfy me.
I'd say read the angry reviews, figure out what they don't like, then take that dislike and turn it into a story.
2532258
That's probably the most complimentary "this" post I've ever read. Thank you!
YMMV means that you may or may not like a thing.
A Hatedom, if there were such a thing, would be a collection of individuals who got together specifically for the purpose of talking about how much they dislike a thing. TCB stories get that a lot, mainly for the rampant misanthropy those stories tend to bring up.
If you've only got a few people actively disliking your work, then I don't know if that qualifies as a hatedom so much as part of the normal spectrum of responses that a writer will experience. Nobody is universally admired, after all, in spite of our best efforts
My thoughts on it are thus: If there isn't any constructive criticism coming your way, it's better to ignore it. You're writing for yourself and your fans. If certain people have decided that they hate your work (or, for some reason, you), then they're not a fan. Non-fans are not your audience. Therefore, as a writer, you don't need to worry about them.
And, as always when it comes to haters, engaging them only adds fuel to the fire.
I don't really think it's a hatedom unless they actually get together and form a social circle based on their shared dislike of you. Which I suppose might be happening, for all I know, but from where I stand this is just garden-variety "this requires me to think and I don't like that!" hate.
2532214 for what it's worth, While I've yet to read past sins, I had read multiple reviews by various people I respect as reviewers that say that while it's a good story, it hardly deserves the pedestal it stands on. And My little Dashie? Eek! (None of this is to say my writing is any better.)
There is certainly many Hatedoms out there. We just call them ________.
But I don't see you getting any real hate. Hell, you have at most 20 dislikes on a story with over 500+ something likes. And a story you'd expect to be bombed, a DT story, only has 1 dislike out of 147 likes.
It's not uncommon for people to just dislike a direction a story has taken. Incomplete, chapter by chapter stories tend to get the most flak for their sudden change a story can take sometimes, which honestly happens all the time in the 'Just Winging It' types, so anything deemed jarring or a 'stupid' can lead to a lot of negative comments or something.
Now, that said, deconstructions of popular headcanons or fandom pairings can lead to a ton of hate. Deconstruction fics tend to butthurt people who take certain things too seriously.
I can't say why your story is generating so many 'vocal' detractors but you can at least narrow down the chapter that perhaps started all the problems. You'd think the comments would be full of reasons.
Far as that quoted bit of review from one of your comments, I honestly don't even know if that was supposed to be taken as an insult to you as more of that reader probably just not used to someone using more than an 6th Grade English understanding to write a story.
Maybe be less cryptic about stuff and just confront them and get it over with? Hate only festers. And your reply can just show you whose just out to cause problems or have legitimate reason to be upset for whatever reason.
No point in pretending a problem doesn't exist, if there is one. But considering there are typically more people willing to be agreeable than those willing to tell you that you've done something wrong, I think it's best to just look into the 'mystery' of where the origin of all that "hate" you're getting is coming from.
P.S. Hatedom? You have to know what's being hated to even consider making such a tag and that would likely just create more hate. Who knows.
2531982
What story?
____________________
And really you can't say that you have a HateDom. Not in the least. I mean you have constantly far more upvotes than down votes. By a large percentage. In order to claim a hatedom I'd think you're writing would have to be so universally hated that you downvotes broke the site by pure fanon loathing.
Yes, you're writing style is different. And a few bits were a bit jarring in a few of your fics [when you broke up sentences / paragraphs to interject a thought / spare comment], but all in all that doesn't distract to much from the quality of your writing or the greatness of the Trypticverse. It's just a unique artistic style.
2532465
What fics are you talking about?
Meh.
You're pretty much overblowing it, I think.
A bad review or two do not make a hatedom -- especially when it's reviews of specific stories.
I know for certain that you have written a bunch of stories that I didn't like, and that I would give bad scores in reviews.
Does that make mean I hate all your stuff? Fuck no
Assuming that this is over the comments made on Post Negative Comments Only… there is only one comment that should actually be taken as hostile and even that is conditional based on what the commenter elaborated upon in PMs. (Tell a lie, there is another which might be but I would need to ask its author to be sure.)
AFAICT, neither you nor the Triptych Continuum have a hate‐dom.
One or two critics (no matter how harsh) ≠ hate‐dom.
One or two haters (no matter how hateful) ≠ hate‐dom.
Do a half‐dozen names keep popping up and spewing bile over everything you write? Do you get an avalanche of sudden down‐votes (a half dozen within a matter of minutes, 1–2 dozen in a matter of hours), with a near equal number of referrals pointing toward a single source? Check that source out. If it’s a “for fuck’s sake, not more shit from Estee” thread then you might have a point.
2532395
Well, I can honestly say that, while reviews can review, nothing can give you a better feel for if you think the book is good or not than reading it yourself.
I recommend reading both Past Sins and My Little Dashie to see what you think of them.
You are one of my favorite authors on this site. I have never found any of your works overly controversial or offensive. Your writing style is descriptive, pleasant, and easy to read.
You can't make everyone happy, only try to be happy yourself.
Anti-fandom?
In any case, if you've been receiving more than the usual amount of negativity recently... your writing style is unique. It requires thinking, which some people find difficult.
2531982
It's neither. One person's opinion is just that - an opinion.
For a Hatedom you'd need a whole group of people who are dedicated to hating you or your work (essentially an anti-fandom).
For Bile Fascination the negative reviews of your work would have to be so overwhelmingly bad that they create the perverse compulsion to go read your work and see what all the fuss is about.
As several folks have already pointed out, here on FIMFiction The Conversion Bureau seems to qualify for both. In the wider world, think Twilight or Fifty Shades of Gray.
I was wondering if this was about people hating you and your stories for some reason, or your hate of modern media, or unicorn supremacists hating (ineptly) everyone else in the storyverse, or...
I've got to agree with Fashionably Hospitable on this. Your style has been said to be overly prosaic however what's the point of obtaining an expansive vocabulary if it will never be exercised? Your stories always have a certain... well I must frankly admit I can't think of the perfect term, but a sort of cadence that is most calming. While your works are myriad they all bare the mark of your distinctive style. I'm reminded of a time that a friend told me that they didn't like Alan Moore's "Watchmen" because they felt it was too slow paced. The tension and world building had been lost on him. I very much appreciate your dedication to xenology. "Naked Lunch" was brilliantly done cultural study that was genuinely funny. Unlike most explorations of xenopsychologies yours have never come across to me as heavy handed. I look forward to the next installment of "Post Negative Comments Only" with bated breathe. Also kindly forgive an old cripple for not properly linking with the green text I see about, these sorts of websites have long been out of my grasp.
Haterhood?